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Dark Souls internal rendering resolution fix (DSfix)

Durante

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Oct 1, 2006
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Boris Vorontsov (the ENB developer) is very opinionated and may seem a bit abrasive, but I'm sure he's not "jealous". He's an accomplished programmer, and he actually told me how to fix the Optimus issue.

The problem is that the correct fix requires quite a bit of programming effort, and that it uses the same technique that most cheats use, so there's a danger of it being flagged by Steam/GFWL. That's why I'm not sure if I should do it.
 

Sethos

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Apr 9, 2009
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The SSAO thing doesn't work for me, there's no AO and it starts stuttering. Can tab out and back in, it'll be smooth for 10 seconds and then back to stuttering.
 

s_mirage

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Jan 2, 2012
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Also it beggars belief that anyone serious about PC gaming wouldnt have a 360 pad by this point. Okay for FPS, but the idea of people playing 2d indie platformer titles with the cursor keys is tragic.
It's actually quite incredible, and sad, the amount of so called PC gamers who act as if having to use anything other than a keyboard for control is some kind of insult. Ironic considering that the PC has had more peripherals developed for it than any other system.
 

Sethos

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Apr 9, 2009
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Maybe that's why nobody has hired the ENB developer then?
Why would they need his services? What he does, any developer can do* however they chose not to for a variety of reasons, performance usually being one and resources being another. ENB is basically a way to crowbar some fancy features on top of games and in many cases with fairly poor performance.


*except FROM
 

Wanny

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Aug 17, 2011
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Well I'm clueless about the AO issue... I tried many profiles but still not working. I just don't know how he made it work seriously.

edit: Just tried Diablo 3 one. It gave bad framerate but no visual AO. At least it does something for now.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Jun 25, 2009
40,855
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Yeah, Boris often comes off as an asshole, but ENB is great, if tweaked in the right way.

Anyhow, Durante is there a possibility of disabling the foreground fake DoF but not the background one? Some times i want to see the detail on something so i go up to a wall to have a closer camera, but the character becomes all jaggy and blurred out.. yet i kinda dig the distant DoF (even though it's low quality) and don't want too much of a hit in preformance.
 

Visualante2

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Oct 20, 2011
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Why would they need his services? What he does, any developer can do* however they chose not to for a variety of reasons, performance usually being one and resources being another. ENB is basically a way to crowbar some fancy features on top of games and in many cases with fairly poor performance.


*except FROM
Erm, he improved the performance and image quality in many games. I've only used it for GTA but it was a huge improvement, plus better frame rate.
 

Backfoggen

Banned
Jul 21, 2009
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Well I'm clueless about the AO issue... I tried many profiles but still not working. I just don't know how he made it work seriously.

edit: Just tried Diablo 3 one. It gave bad framerate but no visual AO. At least it does something for now.
Maybe it has something to do with the Steam/GFWL overlay.
 

Sullichin

Member
Sep 11, 2004
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Wow that ENB guy sounds like a moron. And of course i'm not talking about the ENB that's normally associated with the Dark Souls community. It's ok, we don't need anyone to touch the graphics on this game after Durante's mod. The textures already look amazing.


I also don't get the attidude toward kb/m controls. It's unfortunate that the kb/m controls apparently suck but you're just doing yourself a disservice if you game on PC without a gamepad.
 

Sentenza

Member
Dec 3, 2011
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I also don't get the attidude toward kb/m controls. It's unfortunate that the kb/m controls apparently suck but you're just doing yourself a disservice if you game on PC without a gamepad.
Yeah, I don't get it too.
It looks almost like if for some PC users mouse and keyboard were some sort of identity-defining banners or something.

I'm always been mostly a PC gamer, with consoles bought just as an afterthought, and I'm almost a zealot in my insistence to play with M&KB for games that are well suited for it (real time or turn based strategy, FPS, sometimes TPS, etc)... but -Holy Shit- I really don't think less of myself just because I have a gamepad too and I'm more comfortable using it with some games.
 

Zeliard

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Apr 23, 2008
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I just tried it and all it does it stretch the image vertically. Is it supposed to do that or am I doing it wrong?

I personally don't like any stretch so I will continue to play with black bars.
It isn't stretching but it's definitely not ideal since it's lowering the FOV. You ultimately actually lose screen space. There's an FOV hotkey but I wasn't able to get that to work. I had only messed with it for a few mins, but I'm gonna stick to letterbox till a better solution comes along.
 

TheD

The Detective
Mar 29, 2012
3,575
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The trash cans outside your house.
Yeah, I don't get it too.
It looks almost like if for some PC users mouse and keyboard were some sort of identity-defining banners or something.

I'm always been mostly a PC gamer, with consoles bought just as an afterthought, and I'm almost a zealot in my insistence to play with M&KB for games that are well suited for it (real time or turn based strategy, FPS, sometimes TPS, etc)... but -Holy Shit- I really don't think less of myself just because I have a gamepad too and I'm more comfortable using it with some games.
But most other third person games work fine on PC.
Dark souls just has some really poor keybindings and really bad mouse support.

If the main control interface can physically support a game, then it is only right to make the effort (yes, I do have a 360 controller).
 

Sethos

Banned
Apr 9, 2009
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Erm, he improved the performance and image quality in many games. I've only used it for GTA but it was a huge improvement, plus better frame rate.
What a bunch of rubbish, you even know what ENB really does? It doesn't improve performance in GTA IV, quite the opposite. And as for 'image quality' that's exactly what I'm talking about. Developers aren't running around going "Oh no, how do we improve the looks of our game!" no, they are building the game within console limitations in many cases or a specific performance budget. Writing an injector that just slaps a ton of expensive effects on top of a game isn't exactly what developer houses are looking for, IF they really wanted those effects it'd be easier ( and cheaper, performance wise ) to write them from scratch. ENB is by no means a performance enhancer.
 

Sentenza

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Dec 3, 2011
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But most other third person games work fine on PC.
Dark souls just has some really poor keybindings and really bad mouse support.
Maybe it does, I didn't even bother trying M&KB for this game.
But that's not the point. "Other games in this genre do it nicely" is a damn poor argument.
This game was specifically designed to use this control system, and so it obviosuly works far better with it.

I have no doubt you could make this sort of game work flawlessly with a m&kb, but you would need to design it from the start with that in mind, you can't realistically expect to change the control system entirely and have both options working equally fine.

In the end what really matters isn't even "could it be done right, eventually?" but "If you already know that there is a clear winner, an option that is vastly superior to the other, just use it and be done with these rants".
 

Wanny

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Aug 17, 2011
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Careful with messing with AO guys. It gave me quite a bad framerate even after resetting everything to default. I had to reboot my PC to get back my precious 30 fps.
 

Vitor711

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Nov 20, 2010
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Is he...is he really talking about... entering cover ala Gears for Dark Souls?

Also it beggars belief that anyone serious about PC gaming wouldnt have a 360 pad by this point. Okay for FPS, but the idea of people playing 2d indie platformer titles with the cursor keys is tragic.
That makes no sense to me either - racers, platformers and some third person action games just control better with a pad when you need a degree a fine tuning over movement more so than aim.

Seems like a very narrow minded point of view that's gonna have him missing out on a lot of quality stuff.
 

Zeliard

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Apr 23, 2008
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Yeah, I don't get it too.
It looks almost like if for some PC users mouse and keyboard were some sort of identity-defining banners or something.

I'm always been mostly a PC gamer, with consoles bought just as an afterthought, and I'm almost a zealot in my insistence to play with M&KB for games that are well suited for it (real time or turn based strategy, FPS, sometimes TPS, etc)... but -Holy Shit- I really don't think less of myself just because I have a gamepad too and I'm more comfortable using it with some games.
It's particularly odd because part of the magic of the PC is its great versatility, and that extends to the ability to use various controller inputs. Limiting yourself strictly to kb/m when there are other inputs out there that may work better for certain games seems a strange stance to take.

It isn't a console where you're limited to using just one form of control for the vast majority of games. Make use of the platform's strengths.
 

patapuf

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Nov 18, 2011
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Maybe it does, I didn't even bother trying M&KB for this game.
But that's not the point. "Other games in this genre do it nicely" is a damn poor argument.
This game was specifically designed to use this control system, and so it obviosuly works far better with it.

I have no doubt you could make this sort of game work flawlessly with a m&kb, but you would need to design it from the start with that in mind, you can't realistically expect to change the control system entirely and have both options working equally fine.

In the end what really matters isn't even "could it be done right, eventually?" but "If you already know that there is a clear winner, an option that is vastly superior to the other, just use it and be done with these rants".
I disagree, i'm a fan of using the right input method for the right game but some people just prefer one peripheric over the other, Just like some prefer and x360 controller for shooters over a mouse even if it's not optimal. Does that mean that the dev shouldn't bother implementing proper pad controls?

the keyboard is the primary controller for games on PC. Making third person games that controll well enough with M/KB is possible, games like assassins creed work perfectly fine. It doesn't need to be the best way to play the game. It's enough to be a good way to play the game. There is no need for the keyboard controls to be this bad, you can't even controll the camera properly! with a mouse!
 

Sentenza

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Dec 3, 2011
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It's particularly odd because part of the magic of the PC is its great versatility, and that extends to the ability to use various controller inputs. Limiting yourself strictly to kb/m when there are other inputs out there that may work better for certain games seems a strange stance to take.

It isn't a console where you're limited to using just one form of control for the vast majority of games. Make use of the platform's strengths.
Yes, that's my point as well: "PC gaming" isn't defined by mouse and keyboard, as many seem to think; it's defined by the ability/freedom to use whatever option suits better.
 

Wolf Akela

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Oct 13, 2008
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I personally prefer playing 2D platformers on a keyboard. The keys are much softer than dpads.

I only use controllers for very specific games. DkS is unplayable with kb/m. RE5 has a really wonky feel to its aiming when using a mouse.
 

patapuf

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Nov 18, 2011
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Yes, that's my point as well: "PC gaming" isn't defined by mouse and keyboard, as many seem to think; it's defined by the ability/freedom to use whatever option suits better.
but you can't do that here. It's a pad or having a horrible experience. There's little freedom in that.
 

Zeliard

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Apr 23, 2008
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but you can't do that here. It's a pad or having a horrible experience. There's little freedom in that.
Some games are simply better with a certain type of input. You'd be having a horrible experience trying to play most PC RTS with a pad if you were even able to use one in the first place, as they are specifically designed for and around kb/m. So why is it when a game is designed to use a gamepad and naturally operates much better with one, that's somehow a bad thing?

You'll never catch me dead playing many PC games and even entire genres with a pad over kb/m, but that doesn't mean there aren't actually some games out there more comfortable to play with a pad.

The point about the PC's versatility is that you don't have to use kb/m for every single thing out there. Have a pad around for when the time comes where it'd be more effective to use.
 

wutwutwut

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Apr 29, 2010
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but you can't do that here. It's a pad or having a horrible experience. There's little freedom in that.
No one criticises RTS games for not working well with a pad. You have as much freedom to play Dark Souls with a kb/m as you do to play RTS with a pad.

fake edit: beaten
 

NBtoaster

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Aug 3, 2010
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No one criticises RTS games for not working well with a pad. You have as much freedom to play Dark Souls with a kb/m as you do to play RTS with a pad.

fake edit: beaten
That's because no one has made a good pc rts with pad controls before.

Third person RPGs have been done well with m+kb before. Witcher 2's controls would work really well.
 

Vaporak

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Aug 15, 2006
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Some games are simply better with a certain type of input. You'd be having a horrible experience trying to play most PC RTS with a pad if you were even able to use one in the first place, as they are specifically designed for and around kb/m. So why is it when a game is designed to use a gamepad and naturally operates much better with one, that's somehow a bad thing?

You'll never catch me dead playing many PC games and even entire genres with a pad over kb/m, but that doesn't mean there aren't actually some games out there more comfortable to play with a pad.

The point about the PC's versatility is that you don't have to use kb/m for every single thing out there. Have a pad around for when the time comes where it'd be more effective to use.
There's absolutely nothing in Darksouls control scheme that wouldn't work perfectly fine with a keyboard and mouse. Camera and left/right hand controls go to mouse and everything else on keyboard, would be at least as good if not better than the gamepad controls if implemented well.
 

Wanny

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Aug 17, 2011
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Mouse just need a bit of deadzones and progressive camera rotation. It's too linear ON/OFF currently.
 

wutwutwut

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Apr 29, 2010
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That's because no one has made a good pc rts with pad controls before.

Third person RPGs have been done well with m+kb before. Witcher 2's controls would work really well.
Witcher 2 doesn't have precision platforming, and yet I thought Witcher 2's kb/m controls sucked compared to the gamepad controls.
 

Betta Lines

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Feb 13, 2010
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I find anything above 540 on the DOF fix makes the backgrounds look too sharp, and not as intended. I was initially put off by 540 due to the massive jaggies in the distance, but then I tried forcing FXAA in my Nvidia driver settings. Surprisingly effective, as it appears to deal equally well with the two sizes of aliasing (foreground and background). I'm sticking with 1920x1080 for the rendering - 2560x1440 downsampled looked marginally better but there's really not much difference now that I can use FXAA, and I get no slowdown at bonfires at this res. (i7 870, 560 Ti)

Also, motion blur is superb - really improves the look of the animations of the bosses in particular. I still don't see why it is recommended to switch it off?
 

1-D_FTW

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Jun 14, 2006
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It's like expecting sonic generations to be fun to play on a keyboard! in reality you have no chance!
Not really. Games where you're expected to aim are always better with M/K. I can see where some people would refuse to cross over. I use controllers for basically platformers and twin stick shooters. I use a wheel for racers. And m/k for most everything else. If you don't use a controller for precision aiming, it's jarring to try. People have learned to use it despite the awful limitations, but if he's never forced himself through that learning curve/acceptance/indoctrination phase, so be it. His choice. Even the most controller phobic person could easily use a controller for something like Sonic Generations.
 

Sethos

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Apr 9, 2009
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"Oh the controls suck donkey dick? Well use a gamepad, you aren't a real PC gamer without a gamepad. PC promotes freedom of choice, USE GAMEPAD!"
 
Aug 24, 2005
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Game doesn't use advantages of platform hardware = shit port.
Game doesn't use advantages of platform controls = use console controller and be happy with it.
 

EternalGamer

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Nov 6, 2006
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Game doesn't use advantages of platform hardware = shit port.
Game doesn't use advantages of platform controls = use console controller and be happy with it.
"Platform controls" are not limited to keyboard and mouse. The platform also has controllers. Ever try to play racing games with a keyboard?

Maybe Darksouls could work fine with keyboard and mouse, but there is a very easy solution, so I dont get the problem.
 

Zeliard

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Apr 23, 2008
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Game doesn't use advantages of platform hardware = shit port.
Game doesn't use advantages of platform controls = use console controller and be happy with it.
A gamepad is one of the platform's controls. That's the whole point. You aren't limited to one input for everything.

Did you guys just start using a PC yesterday? This is all fairly amusing, because back in the day PC gamers proudly had different controls for various games, i.e. joysticks, and yes, gamepads. Is it because gamepads have come to be somehow viewed as inherently for consoles? Do you play games over Dolphin with a kb/m?
 

IoCaster

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Mar 4, 2007
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I don't even want to imagine trying to play Dark Souls with kb/m. If you're a PC gamer, buy a goddamn gamepad.
This really needs to stop. Accusations of "elitism" on the part of some console gamers is ironic when I read shit like this. There's a reason console games have aim assist and lock-on. Using a thumb stick to control a camera feels awful to me. The experience feels like I'm purposefully and deliberately gimping myself. I much prefer using my mouse in almost all cases.

I've used this analogy before but it's applicable in this instance to try and explain what I mean. I'll quote a comment that I made on another forum.

Let us suppose that you're playing Mass Effect. At the start of the game you pick up the sniper rifle but you don't have any points in the skill yet. When you zoom in the reticle wobbles all over the target making it difficult to get a good shot off. After you've maxed the skill you can get rock steady aim when you zoom in and land precise shots. That's the difference in experience I get between using a gamepad (no skill sniper) vs using a mouse (maxed skill sniper) in most games.

Movement and target tracking in games just feel right with a KB/M to me. I can understand why people that have been console gamers for years and are comfortable using a gamepad don't share that perspective. It doesn't make my view and experience any less valid though. Now in some genres like turn-based RPGs (ex.The Last Remnant) I actually do prefer to use a gamepad because precise control isn't a crucial component of gameplay.
The game is just barely 'playable' with KB/M. If From had made even the tiniest effort to implement good KB/M support the experience of playing this game on my PC would have been awesome and incredible. As it is, I'm slogging my way through the game slowly and with much aggravation. I'll persevere and beat the game regardless cause I am having fun with it despite having to struggle with the controls. *shrug*
 

patapuf

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Nov 18, 2011
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Witcher 2 doesn't have precision platforming, and yet I thought Witcher 2's kb/m controls sucked compared to the gamepad controls.
platforming works with a keyboard.

third person melee games work with a keyboard

It's clear such games work even better with a pad but their perfectly functional with a keyboard. Dark Souls is not. This is bad, why even defend it?
 

Sethos

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Apr 9, 2009
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Rubbish arguments. Some games are better with a control option that allows a greater control range and variable movement, keyboard being more on / off. However this game isn't such game, you are telling people it's required because the controls are shit, not because it's not a "keyboard type of game". Don't fucking be an apologist for that BS. However games that work less well with keyboards still work nonetheless! Here's it is just straight out unplayable.
 

Zeliard

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Apr 23, 2008
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This really needs to stop. Accusations of "elitism" on the part of some console gamers is ironic when I read shit like this. There's a reason console games have aim assist and lock-on.
Well yeah, because analog controls are bad for precision aiming, and I personally hate them for that as well. I don't think we're talking about shooters here, though.
 

Zeouterlimits

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The age of Sidewinder is forgotten.
Not necessarily a bad thing.

I'm not defending that the game doesn't support good KB/M settings, merely saying that if you want to enjoy it (and many other games, like Dirt 2, Darksiders or Super Meat Boy) a controller is necessary.
 

patapuf

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Nov 18, 2011
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A gamepad is one of the platform's controls. That's the whole point. You aren't limited to one input for everything.

Did you guys just start using a PC yesterday? This is all fairly amusing, because back in the day PC gamers proudly had different controls for various games, i.e. joysticks, and yes, gamepads. Is it because gamepads have come to be somehow viewed as inherently for consoles? Do you play games over Dolphin with a kb/m?
there's no reason for bad keyboard controls, none, they have been done well before in the same genre. Critizising From for this is legitimate, PC gamers bitch about bad Gamepad controls as well, i don't see why complaining about keyboard controls is somehow wrong.

and yes, i play dolphin games with a keyboard when motion controls aren't required.


Well yeah, because analog controls are bad for precision aiming, and I personally hate them for that as well. I don't think we're talking about shooters here, though.
but they work. Just like thrid person action games work on keyboard. The reason dark souls doesn't is because From did a poor job, not because Dark Souls can't work on a keyboard.
 

epmode

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Jun 7, 2004
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Game doesn't use advantages of platform controls = use console controller and be happy with it.
Coming fom a space sim background, I see the benefit of designing a game around a specific input. I have 0 problems with using a controller with a game that was obviously designed around one.