Support NeoGAF

[UrbanRats]

Seriously, people, can you stop with these poor excuses?
There was virtually no "risk" with the PC port. With 92K customers who already signed a petition asking for the game plus all those occasional purchases, anything just remotely competent was going to break even without breaking a sweat.

Stop justifying corporate idiocy. They didn't "save money" doing what they did.
They simply sunk their own ship.

Yeah, there's being greedy and there's being far too fucking greedy.

 

[Bedlam]

Seriously, people, can you stop with these poor excuses?
There was virtually no "risk" with the PC port. With 92K customers who already signed a petition asking for the game plus all those occasional purchases, anything just remotely competent was going to break even without breaking a sweat.

Did you actually take a look at this petition? I did and most of the signatures was fake bullshit.

Stop justifying corporate idiocy. They didn't "save money" doing what they did.
They simply sunk their own ship.

I'm sure the next Souls game will do just fine on consoles. They won't be in trouble.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Arguably a little worse than on a TV because of the post-processing monitors typically lack.

It's amazing how this myth has taken root in this thread. For those unaware, typically you optimize your TV's settings for console gaming by turning off as much image processing as the TV will let you. Nor is a monitor's scaling capabilities a concern because we know the game is actually doing the scaling in software to whatever your monitor accepts. TVs don't magically make the same image look better.

 

[MedIC86]

I think its pretty ironic that people in the sleeping dogs thread are saying they are canceling their preorders because of reason x or y (gameplay mostly) and that port was done properly what i heard (extra textures on pc etc). Even if Darksouls is a crap port it probarly will sell ok.

 

[Betta Lines]

It's amazing how this myth has taken root in this thread. For those unaware, typically you optimize your TV's settings for console gaming by turning off as much image processing as the TV will let you. Nor is a monitor's scaling capabilities a concern because we know the game is actually doing the scaling in software to whatever your monitor accepts. TVs don't magically make the same image look better.

Most people don't do this.

 

[Sentenza]

Did you actually take a look at this petition? I did and most of the signatures was fake bullshit.

Actually, I didn't just "take a look" at it. I pushed to make it happen.

And I'd like to see your proof for claiming that "most of the signatures" were fake.
Not some of them, not many of them, no... *MOST* of them.
Give me a break.

There was probably the same amount of fake signatures that you can expect in percentage in *any* online petition, which makes them statistically irrelevant as what actually matters is how much attention the petition itself drawn.

I'm sure the next Souls game will do just fine on consoles. They won't be in trouble.

Who cares? How is that relevant in relation to the PC port? Are you trolling or what?

 

[danmaku]

Unlikely seeing as the console versions didn't hold a steady 30fps.

And the notion of tying your gameplay systems to framerate is just inherently bad programming design. It would make From even more incompetent developers than they're already showing themselves to be here.

So now every game that needs to run at 60 fps for the gameplay system to work is programmed by incompetents?

 

[Tess3ract]

tying fps to animation is a cheap programming function. It makes sense on consoles where they are trying to eek out as much fps as possible and the CPU is stronger than the GPU, but on PCs that situation is completely inverted.

The GPU on PCs are five times stronger than your average cpu.

 

[TheExodu5]

So now every game that needs to run at 60 fps for the gameplay system to work is programmed by incompetents?

Yes.

If the performance were to ever fluctuate, it would break the game.

 

[Tain]

It's historically been pretty standard practice among Japanese developers to write your game in such a way that all of the timing is framerate-dependent. I wouldn't write it all off as bad coding, as they're generally writing these games for one target set of hardware and it forces devs to be very mindful of performance. It also gives you slowdown that actually functions as slow-motion, which might be preferable to dropped frames depending on what kind of game you want (just look at Cave).

I wouldn't do it for a 30fps 3D game like Dark Souls, though, personally.

 

[c0Zm1c]

It's historically been pretty standard practice among Japanese developers to write your game in such a way that all of the timing is framerate-dependent. I wouldn't write it all off as bad coding, as they're generally writing these games for one target set of hardware and it forces devs to be very mindful of performance. It also gives you slowdown that actually functions as slow-motion, which might be preferable to dropped frames depending on what kind of game you want (just look at Cave).

Well it does say in the Dark Souls manual that low FPS is a feature.

 

[danmaku]

Yes.

If the performance were to ever fluctuate, it would break the game.

And that's why you program the game so that the framerate remains locked at 60. TTT2 arcade lowers the resolution when there are 4 characters on screen to keep a steady 60 fps. SSF4 drops some frames during ultra animations, but those scenes aren't interactive so it's not a problem.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Most people don't do this.

Yeah, most people don't know any better and let the TV take 150ms to screw up the colors, gamma and introduce sharpening artifacts. My point is in technical circles that stuff is considered destructive to the image, and not some miracle panacea for sub HD console gaming as it is being portrayed in this thread.

 

[Iztli]

I think its pretty ironic that people in the sleeping dogs thread are saying they are canceling their preorders because of reason x or y (gameplay mostly) and that port was done properly what i heard (extra textures on pc etc). Even if Darksouls is a crap port it probarly will sell ok.

How is it ironic?

They preordered a game... then read reviews about how the gameplay doesnt meet their expectations.

 

[QaaQer]

Do you make a habit of going into topics about particular discussions and telling people to stop talking about said discussions? Notice that this is a topic surrounding discussion of the port itself.

I think it's more prudent for the person uninterested in the topic move on rather than try to convince everyone else in the topic why everyone else should just move on.

Just a thought.

"dark souls PC post embargo impressions" is a pretty inclusive topic.

 

[Rapstah]

Yeah, most people don't know any better and let the TV take 150ms to screw up the colors, gamma and introduce sharpening artifacts. My point is in technical circles that stuff is considered destructive to the image, and not some miracle panacea for sub HD console gaming as it is being portrayed in this thread.

You're probably right. My only experience is and was a friend's HDTV having 40-something milliseconds of more lag than my monitor even with all the postprocessing we could turn off turned off, but that could be for several other reasons. The amount of people in here for which the case actually is that the game on a console on their HDTV actually looks any worse (or better, for that matter) than the PC game on a monitor is probably hardly anyone. This issue is a sidetrack from the main problems with the port though, obviously.

 

[QaaQer]

the fury of posts at that time was so fast I thought no one actually read that post!

Seriously, like you I am not privy to the inner workings....although one tidbit that I thought I heard came from FS or NB was that GFWL was the best choice for a quick port owing to the fact that they could easily move the 360 code over for MULTIPLAYER. If they actually started from scratch with a PC version this would not be as important. I sincerely believe that there will be a good PC version next time around based on that it will be developed from square one...but alas I am no expert and a noob PCer for certain.

I liked that post too. And like you, Demon's Souls is my best gaming experience, although Mario Galaxy 1/2 come pretty close.

 

[QaaQer]

How is it ironic?

They preordered a game... then read reviews about how the gameplay doesnt meet their expectations.

I'm guessing he means that people are cancelling preorders for darksouls with killer gameplay because it doesn't have things lick high-rez texture packs, unlock framerate, etc. because that stuff is more important than gameplay when deciding whether to buy a game. However, they are also cancelling their orders for a game that has all that stuff.

Prolly not the same people though.

 

[MedIC86]

I'm guessing he means that people are cancelling preorders for darksouls with killer gameplay because it doesn't have things lick high-rez texture packs, unlock framerate, etc. because that stuff is more important than gameplay when deciding whether to buy a game. However, they are also cancelling their orders for a game that has all that stuff.

Prolly not the same people though.

yeah this is what i meant

 

[Skilletor]

I'm guessing he means that people are cancelling preorders for darksouls with killer gameplay because it doesn't have things lick high-rez texture packs, unlock framerate, etc. because that stuff is more important than gameplay when deciding whether to buy a game. However, they are also cancelling their orders for a game that has all that stuff.

Prolly not the same people though.

Probably because, as lots of people have said in this thread, the two are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to have both. Many, many, many games do.

 

[RionaaM]

yeah this is what i meant

Well, can't people want BOTH things? Or are they being too entitled?

I think people have just as much trouble justifying paying for a technically bad game than they do for a graphically good, gameplay-wise bad game *cough* Crysis *cough*.

 

[MedIC86]

Well, can't people want BOTH things? Or are they being too entitled?

I think people have just as much trouble justifying paying for a technically bad game than they do for a graphically good, gameplay-wise bad game *cough* Crysis *cough*.

No its not entitled ofc, people pay good money for these games, and they should except the best. But what i meant, at the end of the day i can play game that looks like shit but has very good gameplay instead of a game that looks very good but has shit gameplay.

 

[Shinjica]

I don't agree to support this because it sets a bad precedent, this game is not exempt from it just because some of you deem it the second coming of Jesus.

This.

My only fear is, with a bad port and good sells, in the future we'll see only this for every game.

 

[Durante]

And that's why you program the game so that the framerate remains locked at 60. TTT2 arcade lowers the resolution when there are 4 characters on screen to keep a steady 60 fps. SSF4 drops some frames during ultra animations, but those scenes aren't interactive so it's not a problem.

This makes a limited amount of sense... until you realize that Dark Souls doesn't even come close to maintaining 30 FPS on consoles. And AFAIK, it doesn't slow down when it starts dropping frames, so it doesn't seem like their gameplay is strictly fame-locked.

 

[Shinjica]

This makes a limited amount of sense... until you realize that Dark Souls doesn't even come close to maintaining 30 FPS on consoles. And AFAIK, it doesn't slow down when it starts dropping frames, so it doesn't seem like their gameplay is strictly fame-locked.

about framerate, in the PC port, brightown will be blocked on 30 FPS or it will go down like in the console version?

 

[JaseC]

about framerate, in the PC port, brightown will be blocked on 30 FPS or it will go down like in the console version?

If your PC has the grunt, it'll run at 30fps.

 

[Tess3ract]

I'm guessing he means that people are cancelling preorders for darksouls with killer gameplay because it doesn't have things lick high-rez texture packs, unlock framerate, etc. because that stuff is more important than gameplay when deciding whether to buy a game. However, they are also cancelling their orders for a game that has all that stuff.

Prolly not the same people though.

For a lot of people, that was the whole fucking point of buying it though, so it ran better than the 360/ps3 versions.

 

[jmdajr]

Damn. Sorry PC gamers.

 

[Peagles]

If your PC has the grunt, it'll run at 30fps.

This is good to hear. My PC is pretty grunty. I just think I'll have to sit back from the screen to get past the resolution thing and it'll be tolerable. And I'll close Fraps so I don't have to see a big 30 in the upper corner to remind me how low the fps is, lol.

 

[Eusis]

I'm guessing he means that people are cancelling preorders for darksouls with killer gameplay because it doesn't have things lick high-rez texture packs, unlock framerate, etc. because that stuff is more important than gameplay when deciding whether to buy a game. However, they are also cancelling their orders for a game that has all that stuff.

Prolly not the same people though.

For a lot of people, that was the whole fucking point of buying it though, so it ran better than the 360/ps3 versions.

What Tess3ract said. Yes, there's some PC-exclusive gamers that are pissed off about the port quality and are rejecting it on that, whether or not they might love the game anyway, but there's a not-insignificant number of people (maybe even the majority?) who had the game on consoles but are canceling either out of anger or because this version is simply pointless to get at full or near full price when they can wait on DLC. It's why I requested a cancellation, I want something that's a leap forward at least in regards to resolution and FPS (all I expected, textures being the same was fully expected), not something that's the equivalent of rebuying a console game on the other console over a few frame dips.

 

[NBtoaster]

If your PC has the grunt, it'll run at 30fps.

And if your pc can't manage better than the console version, you're actually kicked to the title screen.

People with weak pcs should steer clear of this port, if the other issues weren't enough.

 

[Krappadizzle]

What Tess3ract said. Yes, there's some PC-exclusive gamers that are pissed off about the port quality and are rejecting it on that, whether or not they might love the game anyway, but there's a not-insignificant number of people (maybe even the majority?) who had the game on consoles but are canceling either out of anger or because this version is simply pointless to get at full or near full price when they can wait on DLC. It's why I requested a cancellation, I want something that's a leap forward at least in regards to resolution and FPS (all I expected, textures being the same was fully expected), not something that's the equivalent of rebuying a console game on the other console over a few frame dips.

My case exactly.

 

[antitrop]

And if your pc can't manage better than the console version, you're actually kicked to the title screen.

People with weak pcs should steer clear of this port, if the other issues weren't enough.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard about in all of my time as a PC gamer. It doesn't even affect me because I'm sure my hardware is up to snuff, but just the idea of that is patently absurd.

 

[ArjanN]

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard about in all of my time as a PC gamer. It doesn't even affect me because I'm sure my hardware is up to snuff, but just the idea of that is patently absurd.

It's not actually true though. It's just something to kick lag-abusers.

 

[NBtoaster]

Doesn't matter if you're abusing or not.

 

[ArjanN]

Doesn't matter if you're abusing or not.

That depends on how low the bar for kicking you is.

 

[NBtoaster]

That depends on how low the bar for kicking you is.

<15fps for 30 seconds.

 

[Iztli]

It's not actually true though. It's just something to kick lag-abusers.

From the manual

LOW FPS FEATURE

To prevent latency issues and frequent disconnections, there is a

low FPS feature implemented where if your FPS drops below 15

for 30 seconds, your game will automatically be disconnected

from the online session and will return to the title screen. To avoid

this, please refer to the minimum/recommended specifications

to have a better configuration.

 

[abasm]

And if your pc can't manage better than the console version, you're actually kicked to the title screen.

People with weak pcs should steer clear of this port, if the other issues weren't enough.

And to be fair, they aren't kicking you out of online services, they're booting you out of the entire game.

I just don't understand why people are getting up in arms over the expectation for resolution and framerate increases. This is a feature in literally EVERY other console to PC port ever made. It would be as if you bought a console game that didn't allow use of the Home button, and forced you to save your games to a proprietary USB stick. Is expecting otherwise "entitled" when the game violates the bare minimum expected of the platform?

 

[Eusis]

I just don't understand why people are getting up in arms over the expectation for resolution and framerate increases. This is a feature in literally EVERY other console to PC port ever made. It would be as if you bought a console game that didn't allow use of the Home button, and forced you to save your games to a proprietary USB stick. Is expecting otherwise "entitled" when the game violates the bare minimum expected of the platform?

I'd say a console game that had 3D gameplay yet required the D-Pad and ignored saves in favor of long passwords, basically something that you COULD do but is absurdly backwards by any rational view.

 

[Palette Swap]

And to be fair, they aren't kicking you out of online services, they're booting you out of the entire game.

I just don't understand why people are getting up in arms over the expectation for resolution and framerate increases. This is a feature in literally EVERY other console to PC port ever made. It would be as if you bought a console game that didn't allow use of the Home button, and forced you to save your games to a proprietary USB stick. Is expecting otherwise "entitled" when the game violates the bare minimum expected of the platform?

To be accurate, the save analogy would be releasing in 2012 a game that doesn't use saves but long ass passwords that you have to write down.

Edit: lol, Eusis beat me.

 

[scitek]

And if your pc can't manage better than the console version, you're actually kicked to the title screen.

People with weak pcs should steer clear of this port, if the other issues weren't enough.

I'd say people with relatively good gaming PCs should probably steer clear of it, too, until it's known just how demanding it is. If the reports of framerate problems on machines with GTX 680s or whatever at E3 were true.

 

[Sullichin]

off screen footage of the PVP arena-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jd_-P1ZjTw&feature=youtu.be

Fuck yeah. Looks like a great addition to the game. Come PC release I'll still be invading a ton though.

 

[Felix Lighter]

That does look like an awesome addition for those trying to organize structured PvP.

 

[Enkidu]

It's not actually true though. It's just something to kick lag-abusers.

How exactly does this lag-abuse work on consoles? I am genuinely interested in knowing how having a borderline unplayable framerate can somehow be beneficial.

 

[Tain]

I'd say a console game that had 3D gameplay yet required the D-Pad and ignored saves in favor of long passwords, basically something that you COULD do but is absurdly backwards by any rational view.

lol, I actually don't see the former to be a problem at all. There are good 3D games that don't use analog controls.

 

[Haunted]

nvm misread

 

[ArjanN]

How exactly does this lag-abuse work on consoles? I am genuinely interested in knowing how having a borderline unplayable framerate can somehow be beneficial.

I'm not sure about Dark Souls, but I've encountered it in other games like Street Fighter.

It can help you if you're the one controlling when the lag happens by fucking up the other guys timing.

 

[zephervack]

I'm not sure about Dark Souls, but I've encountered it in other games like Street Fighter.

It can help you if you're the one controlling when the lag happens by fucking up the other guys timing.

People actually do this , how the hell do you that? do you spam packets through your network using a laptop or something?

 

[MedIC86]

Qouting myself from the other thread:

So i played it today on gamescom. Dont feel like typing a whole review because im kinda tired. bottom line for me:

- kb + mouse plays ok (gonna stick with joypad tho)
- fps is good (capped at 30 fps but stable were i played it)
- gfx are the same as on PS3 and for me that is a good thing because i already played it on ps3.

Basicly its the same game with better fps. To bad that the reso cant be upped, but for me its good enough.

Did you play it in a small 15" laptop screen?

No it was a 22" or 23". and i couldnt see the specs, or at least didnt pay attention.

according to some guy on steam who also went it was this:

Heres the Specs :
4 Core Intel CPU (Cant say the specific one)
4 GB RAM
Nvidia 460


but i can in no way confirm this