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#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco

G

Gbraga

Member
RMI said:
Haha, I understand what you're saying, 100%, but if they said this it would be a monumental shit storm.

I'd also like to know how it looks, but honestly it won't affect my purchase at all. I decided a while back that the PC was going to be the way to go on this one, just because of the performance issues on the previous game. If it looks exactly the same and just runs better (which is realistically the worst case scenario) I'll be totally content.
Click to expand...

I'm with you, pre-ordering this on monday, can't wait for the artbook and soundtrack.

Can't say I don't understand some people's frustrations though, if when the PC version comes out I find out that the game is actually capped at 30fps and not 60 like advertised all the way to the release, and the reason I placed my preorder, I'd be pretty fucking pissed.

And begging for Durante to save us.
 
C

CountAntonius

Member
weevles said:
I dunno, the PC version of the previous game was jacked up until Durante. :p
Click to expand...

People always bring this up but the first game was never meant for the PC when they did put it on because of public outcry they simply ported the xbox version over. They never made any claims about it. Since the PC version sold so well they decided to give us a better game and chose to develop this one on PC and then port down to consoles. This is why there was so many issues. I really doubt the PC version will be bad. Whether or not they chose to remove the lighting from the PC version for parity is the big question. Also I really don't buy the "they intentionally gutted the game to sell a better version later on next gen consoles." bit. That is just too sinister.

They showed the game in it's retail state in the media blitz late January. I really think this was marketing using whatever footage they had and not communicating with From regarding the big changes in lighting for the console version. I don't think that's makes it ok by any means. But I don't really think it's as sinister as many people think. That would be my guess.
 
S

Stet

Banned
jschreier said:
In case anyone's curious, Namco PR told me today that they're working with Japan in hopes of saying something next week. It'll be on Kotaku whenever I get it.
Click to expand...

*crowd hushes as Namco PR rep walks onstage*
*flashes of cameras echo throughout the room*

"ahem."

*quiet whispers*

"Go fuck yourself."

*Namco PR rep walks offstage*
 
G

Gbraga

Member
jschreier said:
In case anyone's curious, Namco PR told me today that they're working with Japan in hopes of saying something next week. It'll be on Kotaku whenever I get it.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Have you voiced concerns about the PC version too? I'm worried they'll make us wait just to say "sorry guys, the game ran like crap on consoles so we cut it" and we still know nothing more than we already do now.
 
M

Mkilbride

Banned
People. Please, please understand. What we're asking for here is just a response from From Software.

We aren't upset the graphics aren't as we thought they were going to be - we're upset that From Software, in advance, did not tell us. We know about Console limitations, we know about development time, budgets, all that. We know about advertising, CGI trailers, promotional trailers, ect.

The difference is here, we had a version we could play that looked like that, and From did nothing to dispell the idea it LOOKED like that. The screenshots on the PSN store, and the video, showcase the APril 2013 version. NOT the version we got. That is why people are upset.
 
A

atr0cious

Member
Jarate said:
Ocarina of Time was supposed to have footprints and such, but was downgraded (although a bit of a difference in these two)

Ask any game developer, like an actual game developer here if features get removed because they were bad, even ones that were advertised.

And once again, your point is completely invalid because the torches are INCREDIBLY HELPFUL AND PRETTY NECESSARY IN A CERTAIN PART OF THE GAME

you can ignore all of this of course, but the feature is still there.
Click to expand...
XANDER CAGE said:
Early/mid game spoilers below that highlight how detrimental the lighting changes are:

in No Man's Wharf, there is a giant torch you can light hanging from the ceiling by using a Pharros Lockstone. Considering this is one of the first truly brutal areas of the game, finding this giant torch would basically be a momentous, triumphant step forward, as it lights the whole area. With the original lighting I imagine this could have been a pretty iconic moment, as it would have bathed a huge pitch-black area in firelight.

As it stands, though, it makes a few enemies slightly annoyed at the fire and back off a bit. It's a total waste of a Lockstone. You can see everything without torches, so lighting the giant one is pointless.
Click to expand...
I try to stay spoiler free, but this is the kind of compromise I don't like. This coupled with enemies "appearing" out of thin air, make it sound like they accidentally hit a switch. If you want spend $60 on good enough go ahead, but I'd like what they advertised.
 
R

Raide

Member
Not sure what I will think if the PC version ends up being the all singing and dancing version. I am getting the PC version regardless but even if the content gameplay wise is the same as the PS3/360 versions, it will certainly seem like a kick in the nuts for that fanbase. It would show that they are using the PC tech more efficiently and also planning for next-gen systems but I am not sure where that leaves PS3/360 fans.

Sure they will still enjoy an amazing game full of awesome but just not as awesome as it could be.
 
Raven77

Raven77

Member
PetriP-TNT said:
What were your thoughts on the Network Test version (graphically and performance) which wasn't that long ago either compared to what you have played now
Click to expand...

It essentially looked like a slightly downgraded version of the TGS demo, however, it still looked much better than the retail release.

Another fact that a lot of people seem to keep forgetting is that at TGS the game was running on PS3's, it performed about the same as the retail release.

A "reduction in quality due to performance" simply makes no sense.
 
P

PetriP-TNT

Member
Oh man can't wait for the 'splaining thread.

Best possible outcome:
there is no best possible outcome, that thread will be a trainwreck
 
D

Durante

Member
Narroo said:
Wait, let me rephrase that; have you played the port? It was an awful port that required significant hacking to make work right. Looks nice; plays bad.
Click to expand...
Are you talking out of your ass? It played exactly like the console version (except for better framerate on decent PCs).

And yes I played it for 150 hours or so.
 
C

CountAntonius

Member
jschreier said:
In case anyone's curious, Namco PR told me today that they're working with Japan in hopes of saying something next week. It'll be on Kotaku whenever I get it.
Click to expand...

"We had to cut back the lighting on the console versions because of hardware limitations. The marketing footage was put together by a PR firm from old footage and we apologize for the confusion."

Raven77 said:
It essentially looked like a slightly downgraded version of the TGS demo, however, it still looked much better than the retail release.

Another fact that a lot of people seem to keep forgetting is that at TGS the game was running on PS3's, it performed about the same as the retail release.

A "reduction in quality due to performance" simply makes no sense.
Click to expand...

Giantbomb said the console version ran much smoother than the TGS version. The beta version was one part of the game not it's entirety. The game as is already struggles do you think it would really be similar with ad advanced lighting engine? I doubt From want their game to look worse if they put all that work into it. The chose performance over graphics.
 
X

XANDER CAGE

Member
Jarate said:
Ocarina of Time was supposed to have footprints and such, but was downgraded (although a bit of a difference in these two)

Ask any game developer, like an actual game developer here if features get removed because they were bad, even ones that were advertised.

And once again, your point is completely invalid because the torches are INCREDIBLY HELPFUL AND PRETTY NECESSARY IN A CERTAIN PART OF THE GAME

you can ignore all of this of course, but the feature is still there.
Click to expand...

It's still there for one area, albeit without anywhere near the level of dynamic lighting shown in demos. The remnants of the mechanic are useless literally everywhere else, and yet were not removed.

Yelling about it's sort of there in one part still kinda isn't much of a defense.
 
H

hokagespit

Member
Clawww said:
Yes, I would. Sure, it looks lit up, but visibility-wise there's hardly a difference. Maybe you could post some more shots to make a better case.
Click to expand...

theres whole platforms in that area you'd never be able to notice if someone doesn't have a torch out. i was completely surprised when people have walked up with a torch and to my side the path continued just out the light you make yourself.
 
Raven77

Raven77

Member
CountAntonius said:
"We had to cut back the lighting on the console versions because of hardware limitations. The marketing footage was put together by a PR firm from old footage and we apologize for the confusion."
Click to expand...


You should actually read the OP. It isn't just lighting. It is far, far more than just lighting.
 
P

PetriP-TNT

Member
Raven77 said:
It essentially looked like a slightly downgraded version of the TGS demo, however, it still looked much better than the retail release.

Another fact that a lot of people seem to keep forgetting is that at TGS the game was running on PS3's, it performed about the same as the retail release.

A "reduction in quality due to performance" simply makes no sense.
Click to expand...

What. Did you miss what GamingIsDead posted. Network Test, quite reportedly, ran like shit. The game as it is today, runs like shit. Do you understand what needs to be done when something runs like shit. It's either optimize or step down and you can just do so much of optimization.

Then again I am also talking about assumptions, as I was in the beta http://i.imgur.com/Jrnjjwu.png?1?2680 but didn't have time to play it. My brother in the meanwhile used my account and reported the same issues.

Durante said:
Are you talking out of your ass? It played exactly like the console version (except for better framerate on decent PCs).

And yes I played it for 150 hours or so.
Click to expand...

Didn't get that either. Unless it was about GFWL problems but those were GFWL problems.

Relaxed Muscle said:
Fixed
Click to expand...

So what people want is "yeah the console versions are shit but PC is great best wishes from Namco", allrighty then.
 
K

Kingduqc

Banned
I did some digging since I knew i've heard it somewhere and here it is. We'll probably get a pv version that look like the TGS demo. People where saying they it was running on ps3 but i'm sure that they actually didn't see a ps3 on the show floor and it was actually a pc.

http://www.gamekult.com/actu/zoom-dark-souls-ii-A108297.html

"Q: La démo présentée durant l'événement tournait sur PC. Cela signifie-t-il qu'une version PC est également développée en interne ?

A: La version montrée avant cette interview tournait effectivement sur PC. Si le premier Dark Souls avait été adaptée des consoles au PC, cette fois-ci, c'est l'inverse. La version PC nous sert de base, à partir de laquelle nous déclinerons les adaptations consoles. En clair, le jeu est développé simultanément sur les différentes machines, directement en interne."

Translate to:

Q: The demo presented during the event was running on PC. Does this means that there is actually a PC version being developed?

A: the version was indeed running on PC. The first dark souls was ported from the consoles to the PC, this time it's the other way around. The PC version is used as the base, with that we step it down for the console adaptation. The game is being developed simultaneously across all platform internally.

There is still some hope guys.
 
S

Steel

Banned
Raven77 said:
Wait so you actually anticipated that the game would look nothing like what FROM revealed to be the game? Why would you be of that mindset based on FROM's track record?
Click to expand...

From's track record? Have you seen Armored core V? The gamescom footage vs the way the actual game worked was the difference between awesome and completely broken. They're not exactly known for the best graphics in the industry, either.
 
J

Jarate

Banned
atr0cious said:
I try to stay spoiler free, but this is the kind of compromise I don't like. If you want spend $60 on good enough go ahead, butI'd like what they advertised.
Click to expand...

And maybe he personally didn't need the torch, just like in Pokemon Red, I knew a few kids who never got flash and got through rock tunnel without it

Also, people complained heavily about how dark the beta was, hence why they probably made it brighter.

Im sorry you were really stoked about running through pitch black hallways, maybe this game isn't for you then. But there's no need to be super critical of this one thing that was most likely cut due to feedback, considering this feature isn't really that fun to begin with (especially because the souls series are so known for ham fisting you into a specific play style, right?)
 
C

CountAntonius

Member
Raven77 said:
You should actually read the OP. It isn't just lighting. It is far, far more than just lighting.
Click to expand...

I have been in this thread and the other I'm aware of the issues. Comparing it to the original reveal is pointless because that is obviously never the game we were going to get with current gen console support. The build everybody expected was the one with improved lighting.
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Kingduqc said:
I did some digging since I knew i've heard it somewhere and here it is. We'll probably get a pv version that look like the TGS demo. People where saying they it was running on ps3 but i'm sure that they actually didn't see a ps3 on the show floor and it was actually a pc.

http://www.gamekult.com/actu/zoom-dark-souls-ii-A108297.html

"Q: La démo présentée durant l'événement tournait sur PC. Cela signifie-t-il qu'une version PC est également développée en interne ?

A: La version montrée avant cette interview tournait effectivement sur PC. Si le premier Dark Souls avait été adaptée des consoles au PC, cette fois-ci, c'est l'inverse. La version PC nous sert de base, à partir de laquelle nous déclinerons les adaptations consoles. En clair, le jeu est développé simultanément sur les différentes machines, directement en interne."

Translate to:

Q: The demo presented during the event was running on PC. Does this means that there is actually a PC version being developed?

A: the version was indeed running on PC. The first dark souls was ported from the consoles to the PC, this time it's the other way around. The PC version is used as the base, with that we step it down for the console adaptation. The game is being developed simultaneously across all platform internally.

There is still some hope guys.
Click to expand...

You don't need to translate that, information was available in English. Keep in mind that was the original debut last April.
 
J

Jarate

Banned
XANDER CAGE said:
It's still there for one area, albeit without anywhere near the level of dynamic lighting shown in demos. The remnants of the mechanic are useless literally everywhere else, and yet were not removed.

Yelling about it's sort of there in one part still kinda isn't much of a defense.
Click to expand...

Uh oh, we advertised a game mechanic that we playtested and found out to be not fun at all

Who cares, let's keep it in the game everywhere, because im the best game developer ever!
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
Durante said:
Are you talking out of your ass? It played exactly like the console version (except for better framerate on decent PCs).

And yes I played it for 150 hours or so.
Click to expand...

Juniors never change...

The fact of the matter is the issues with the Dark Souls 1 port are overblown.

The game runs well, doesn't crash, and is well-optimized.

The only legitimate complaints are GFWL and the rendering resolution. Durante had a working fix for the latter, granted it was early, literally as the game unlocked on Steam.
GFWL can likely be attributed to the budget Bandai granted Namco, time constraints, and From's ignorance to the issues attributed to that solution. GFWL should be getting removed sometime in the coming weeks.
 
A

atr0cious

Member
Jarate said:
Im sorry you were really stoked about running through pitch black hallways, maybe this game isn't for you then. But there's no need to be super critical of this one thing that was most likely cut due to feedback, considering this feature isn't really that fun to begin with (especially because the souls series are so known for ham fisting you into a specific play style, right?)
Click to expand...
The problem is they advertised it that way, which is for me. And do you not understand how having the torch mechanic fuck with your playstyle could be intended, and is probably the most "Dark Souls" thing they could've done ? You think carmack doesn't know how to code an attachment flashlight? It's for atmospheric purposes, but also makes you step outside your comfort zone. It's still in there you say, but now it sucks, which is it?
 
M

Metroid-Squadron

Banned
nynt9 said:
I'm talking about boxes of games.
Click to expand...
Show me the disclaimer in the DS2 box.

Nags said:
I'm done with this thread.
I know there is enough people that are not genuine in this concern for the console versions.

They are just using it as a way to beg for an upgrade on PC. Or get confirmation that what was shown in the bullshots will in fact be in the PC release.

To all of you with this ulterior motive, shame on you.
Click to expand...
Piss-poor shaming attempt. 1/10

Cheech said:
PC was the lead platform on Dark Souls 2.

A PC port to 8 year old console hardware looks not so great.

Why is this a surprise?
Click to expand...
Another person doesn't read the OP. What a surprise.

_machine said:
But the same thing applies for demos and others; it's not representative of the final product because it's not the final product and things change as development goes on. In case of DS2 that change happened way fast before the release which meant it resulted in crap looking areas, out-of-date marketing material (and given that the material is done by other people way before the release and they simply cannot release a game without they will use the material not drawn from the final game, without any repercussions), higher expectations etc.
Click to expand...

What other games have done massive changes like these one month before release?

Also, there's the fact that they keep using the E3 trailer to promote the PC version of the game on Steam. If the game ends up looking like that, fine. If not, it's deception, plain and simple.

jschreier said:
In case anyone's curious, Namco PR told me today that they're working with Japan in hopes of saying something next week. It'll be on Kotaku whenever I get it.
Click to expand...

"Bu-but you're not going to achieve anything with these threads". Then again it might be PR garbage.

Grief.exe said:
The game runs well, doesn't crash, and is well-optimized.
Click to expand...

It is most definitely not well-optimized.
 
W

Warewolf

Member
I love how much righteousness there is in support of the PC port, the supposed saviour of Dark Souls II, when we've never seen a single screenshot and the port that From put together for Dark Souls was so limited.

I have no doubt it's going to be wildly superior (technically) to what they managed with Dark Souls but then I don't think there's anything worth being upset over with the lighting/asset changes that we've seen.

I hope there won't be any crushed hopes on April 25th.
 
J

Jarate

Banned
atr0cious said:
The problem is they advertised it that way, which is for me. And do you not understand how having the torch mechanic fuck with your playstyle could be intended, and is probably the most "Dark Souls" thing they could've done ? You think carmack doesn't know how to code an attachment flashlight? It's for atmospheric purposes, but also makes you step outside your comfort zone.
Click to expand...

The Souls series is really known for hamfisting you into situations where you need to use a 1 handed build!
 
C

CountAntonius

Member
Jarate said:
Uh oh, we advertised a game mechanic that we playtested and found out to be not fun at all

Who cares, let's keep it in the game everywhere, because im the best game developer ever!
Click to expand...

I think there is a nice middle ground they didn't have time to reach. I certainly didn't want tomb of the giants everywhere and I know most people on the beta didn't either. But the lighting just went completely the other way which makes me think the consoles just couldn't handle it because they could have always just toned it down a bit and kept the shadows.
 
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