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Dave Perry: Wii owners to drop console for Halo
- Thread starter VOOK
- Start date
Back when people were saying that, the DS had an average line-up and was being outsold by the PSP. It took over a year (and a redesign) to get the DS as strong as it is right now...Gigglepoo said:
People are giving a hard time to the Wii, ignoring that it sold in 8 months what the 360 sold in a little over 1 year and with practically no "big sellers". This year will end with an even stronger line up not only of great games but games that also look great.
Are those 10+ million owners going to ignore the Wii this holiday season, just because of Ratchet, Uncharted, Lair, Halo 3, etc?? and even if they do..the PS3 is 5 million units behind and teh 360 is tied with the Wii so is not like it would do much.
TheRipDizz
Banned
That's wrong and there's a big difference here. The DS was not a fad off the bat. It's struggled at first. There was no "when the whole two screen/touch/non-gaming fad ended, people were going to realize that the PSP was better in visuals, content, everything" at anytime during its birthing period. The fact that it was the successor to the Gameboy line is what broght it back to life since everyone and their mom had something baking for it and a flood of quality, diverse and yes, alot of traditional software hit the system at a prescribed time. Something tells me that if that's going to happen with the Wii, it won't be for a long while since most publishers treated the thing like the Gamecube's successor before it hit it big with grandmas.fernoca said:Probably because the exact same thing was said about the DS. That "when the whole two screen/touch/non-gaming fad ended, people were going to realize that the PSP was better in visuals, content, everything"
Cygnus X-1
Member
Gigglepoo said:
Not this shit again please.
TheRipDizz
Banned
PkunkFury said:
Hardly.TheRipDizz said:
Why do you think the DS got a redesign? Because it was slammed everywhere as being the "ugly handheld" with the "not so bright screen".
Back then it had mostly normal games that used the stylus just sometimes, and everyone called it a fad that was going to end, when developers realized that they could make better looking games on the PSP and when people compared Ridge Racer on PSP vs. Ridge Racer on DS. (cue the classic pictures of the 3 PSPs playing Ridge Racer with the original DS playing Pictochat)
Also, the DS was never intended to be the successor of the Game Boy. Nintendo admitted that, it was the whole reason of not calling it "Game Boy", it was just an experiment...a risk that ended as a success.
Some of you act like people are just going to stop buying/playing the Wii (even Dave Perry on that interview)..ignoring that in the remote case, the Wii will coexist with both the PS3 and 360..and that most are going to have a Wii along with an extra "HD console"..and they are still going to buy games for it.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Cygnus X-1 said:
it's a valid point, though.
fernoca said:
Some people also think the Wii is going to destroy the competition, making traditional gaming a thing of the past.
I think all three will be a success. The Wii will help grow the industry while the PS3 and X360 will cater to long time gamers. Most "real" gamers will have an X360/PS3 and Wii because you won't be able to experience the entire video game spectrum without that.
Of the three, I think the Wii has the best chance of dying prematurely since they are targetting a market that doesn't actually spend money on games.
TheRipDizz
Banned
What are you saying? That everyone was calling the DS a fad and that's why they had to redesign it? Doesn't a fad mean it's doing well but will soon be forgotten? If it was doing so well to be called a "fad" why would they redesign it? Is today a reverse day I wasn't told about?fernoca said:
Cygnus X-1
Member
Gigglepoo said:
The fact is that the Wii is not a gimmick and it is not a fad: you understand this by yourself. Simply the numbers (crazy numbers btw) prove that. If the console will slow down, it will do it slowly, like almost every console that has not been substituted by another one. But this will not happen, because, as you said, there will be more then enough games for this year, i.e. Mario galaxy, Smash, Metroid (for the hardcore) and Wii Fit (for the casual).
This doesn't mean that the other games for other systems will not sell: the opposite, I would say. Simply the two categories of games will hardly affect each other. PS3 affect the 360 (and viceversa), but the Wii is following his own path, indisturbated.
I don't know if it has been a good move to answer you....
I wonder how many years of wii domination will be required before this argument dies?
I'm not saying the argument is nessecarily bogus.. We've never had a generation like this before with such a huge power gap and something unusual could happen.. I just wonder if people will still be saying this late next year if the wii is still outselling everything.
I'm not saying the argument is nessecarily bogus.. We've never had a generation like this before with such a huge power gap and something unusual could happen.. I just wonder if people will still be saying this late next year if the wii is still outselling everything.
Cygnus X-1
Member
Krowley said:
That's exactly my point. Nobody says that PS3 is dead and Wii has won, but it is increasingly unlikely that the estabilished trend reverses and IF this will happen, it will happen very slowly. So, at the end of the console life cycle, the probability that the Wii will have the biggest userbase is increasingly likely. But I found a little bit a nonsense underline this thing that should be more then clear, because the numbers says exactly that and everybody here know them !
Check the post above yours.TheRipDizz said:
Everyone called the DS a fad because of the touchscreen, during a a time that it was slammed everywhere because "it's only seller was Super Mario 64 just like the Nintendo 64"
Yeah, but what market is that? Japan were the system and the games are constantly selling out and everyone says that they no longer matter in videogames because all they care are of non-games? US, where Twilight Princess sold 2 million copies and it's still tin the Top 20 since the Wii-launch in November and the latest chart from Canada had 7 Wii games in the Top 15?Gigglepoo said:
It's been 8 months and it's still doing strong...heck the Wii just had it's best week in Japan since January selling over 105,000 units in one (last) week.
Before the Wii, when the 360 was dominating the charts, noone called it a fad that was going to die..just that it was going to get better..Now the Wii dominating the charts is a fad that is going to die?
As I said previously, the Wii can coexist with both..the PS3 can end with 20 million, the 360 with 40 million..and even putting the Wii in the middle at 30 million, it still a lot more than what Nintendo originally expected which was to sold more than the 20 million of the GameCube...and far of it being just a fad.
TheRipDizz
Banned
1.It's the Nintendo handheld that came after the GBA. Semantics and all that good stuff........yeah.Monk said:
2. Yes, thanks for reiterating my point. The system didn't take off right away.
3.Yet it's diverse lineup is what is most appealing to the average gamer and there are probably more traditional games contributing to that than non traditional ones.
HylianScribe
Member
Gigglepoo said:
Only in November. Please remember to combine GCN sales with Wii sales when talking about Twilight Princess...they should be counted as one.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
People keep forgetting a few little things that happened between the release of Halo 2 and Halo 3. Like Gears of War and GRAW. The bar has been irrevocably raised so Halo 3 might not have the same impact as its predecessor.
Flakster99
Member
Nothing new. It is a rehashed, out of touch opinion.
Does he realize if Nintendo had not went and changed their interface method, if Nintendo had played it safe and offered more buttons, a change in form for comfort's sake, played follow the leader, we would of continued to remain behind in how we play our games, and another console generation would have stagnated in control methodology?
Not all, but many journalists, gamers, etc, bitch and moan about the evolution of graphics, and how horse power is important to having new experiences, yet, rarely has interface and how we interact with games entered the conversation. Well no shit Dave, the Wii interface is not "the ultimate final solution", but it is a step in the right direction, a change in perception and thinking - and I also hope it gives Sony and Microsoft a kick in the pants to be more imaginative in the future and take some calculated risks besides the graphical variety.
Also, I hope that Nintendo realizes they cannot throw away decades worth of console, graphical upgrade history for the sake of improving how we play our games. There is plenty of room for both, and we should be ALL for it.
Does he realize if Nintendo had not went and changed their interface method, if Nintendo had played it safe and offered more buttons, a change in form for comfort's sake, played follow the leader, we would of continued to remain behind in how we play our games, and another console generation would have stagnated in control methodology?
Not all, but many journalists, gamers, etc, bitch and moan about the evolution of graphics, and how horse power is important to having new experiences, yet, rarely has interface and how we interact with games entered the conversation. Well no shit Dave, the Wii interface is not "the ultimate final solution", but it is a step in the right direction, a change in perception and thinking - and I also hope it gives Sony and Microsoft a kick in the pants to be more imaginative in the future and take some calculated risks besides the graphical variety.
Also, I hope that Nintendo realizes they cannot throw away decades worth of console, graphical upgrade history for the sake of improving how we play our games. There is plenty of room for both, and we should be ALL for it.
TheRipDizz
Banned
fadfernoca said:
noun a temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct, etc., esp. one followed enthusiastically by a group.
If by your own admission, it wasn't doing too well at its begining, it would not have been called a fad. It was called alot of things in its birthing period. A "fad" was not one of them.
Cygnus X-1 said:
I agree with your argument. I just think it's premature to hand to crown to the Wii. Nintendo not only has to develop games that sell casual gamers on the system, they have to keep the hardcore interested as well. Furthermore, they have to hope that a lot of 3rd parties share their creative vision. It's not an easy task.
EternalSunshine1976
Member
Gigglepoo said:
It didn't start out so strong. The DS actually had a weaker initial line-up.
Tyrone Slothrop
Banned
its not about being a step in the final direction. its about what it can deliver. if you compare wit fitness along something like halo 3 youd be remiss think anybody would stick with their wii. you can throw the success of the interface all you want but once you see how more advanced all the other consoles are youre going to see why the wii is so cheap - because it is. its behind. everybodys trying to move forward and just because sells are up everbody think that's an excuse to stay behind with nintendo
thaivo said:
Exactly! The NDS sucked initially (don't deny it) and sales lagged. Heck, I buy every Nintendo system immidiately and even I waited. But then it picked up. In May of 2005 (the NDS launched in 2004, right), Kirby and Meteos came out. That's when I realized the NDS was awesome and sales around the world began to pick up.
The Wii started out with a flash, even though it didn't have the software to justify its popularity. This scares me. Nintendo had to fight for it's NDS dominance. I'm not seeing that on the Wii.
Of all the point you're still attached to the same. :lolTheRipDizz said:
Everyone knew that DS wasn't as successfull when it was released, neither the months after as it is right now..and it still was called a fad. A "fad" that many celebrated it was dying when the sales of the DS started going down, thanks to the PSP...ad the "fad" as I've said in all my posts was the touchscreen, not the handheld per se. (the same reason the Wii is called a fad because of the motion sensors)
Ironically the sudden success of the PSP, noone called it a fad..everyone assumed that it was the best for the handheld market that a "traditional" one was getting more sales.
Things don't need to be incredible success to be considered fads, just look at online console gaming when it started,many people (mostly Nintendo fans) called online gaming a fad..because it wasn't a success yet.
That;s the thing.Gigglepoo said:
Nintendo hasn't released anything big on the Wii. The "flash" in any case will start this year with "the big 3" and the following with other stuff...just look at all the controversy regarding Wii Fit..and the same one that Wii Music will cause.
crazyscreenwriter
Banned
Doubt it.
I don't think people realize that a good portion of the Wii-Market are people that aren't ever going to be interested in Halo, Gears of War, or Resistance.
I don't think people realize that a good portion of the Wii-Market are people that aren't ever going to be interested in Halo, Gears of War, or Resistance.
Cygnus X-1
Member
SapientWolf said:
And don't forget that the installed base a lot smaller then when Halo 2 came out on the original Xbox. This is significant too.
TheRipDizz said:
1. The only thing the ds had is the Nintendo brand name much like gamecube. It did not have the gb brand name.
2. No my point was that the ds is selling because of non games.
3. "average gamer", probably, but most people who own a ds arent the average gamer. http://whatjapanthinks.com/images/nintendo-ds-ownership-demographics.png
Cygnus X-1
Member
Gigglepoo said:
That's the problem: I don't think that the hardcore is a so big audience as someone says. People like us, here on GAF, are a minority and I really doubt we count so much to make the difference. Even games like Halo 3 or Gears of Wars are bought a lot by casual too and I bet that even in these cases, the hardcore gamer is not over 50% (and I exaggerate a lot). Attention: keep in mind that I'm not speaking about the 40-50 years-old mom that Nintendo is targeting, but the young casual. Yeah, even between 15 and 30, the majority is still casual and it is THIS category that fuel sales of FPS, f.e. But these guys are voluble and are not a long term strategy, because they grows up and with the age, interests change (overall because they are people that are still not stable with a solid work, studies and so on).
For definition, hardcore gamers are gamers that are playing since a lot of time, that inform themself greatly and that are usually "fixed" on long, epic games (very simplified definition. Don't try... Ok !).
That's why Nintendo has been so smart: they understood that this is a niche market and it is a nonsense make games that suited only for this category. maybe you can disagree with them (I did a lot), but I cannot really contest the value of that strategy; overall after the sales of the Wii and DS !
Cygnus X-1
Member
Gigglepoo said:
I believe you. But this "hardcore gamers" are sure a big amount of people that are much wider then the hardcore I meant.
I try to explain it better, with an example: Halo 2 sold in USA something around 5 millions, right ? Ok, let suppose this number is 5 millions exactly (supposition, it doesn't matter acually how much it is ). Do you believe really that almost 4 millions of guys are the typical Gaffer that informs almost everyday on website and forum about games, news and co. ?
Mmmmmmm.
The survey put a lot more guys in it that likely have had some experience with gaming in the past, but they are even not comparable to the "hardcore gamer" as I defined up.
It is also a definition's problem: who is exactly a hardcore gamers ? The typical gaffer, or a guy who know who Mario is, is more then enough ?
Do you see what I mean ? There are "gradation" of the hardcore, but the "hardcore" this survey cites is even not comparable to what you're thinking.
Gigglepoo said:
NPD Disagrees:
http://www.gamernode.com/News/3164-Report-hardcore-gamers-buy-the-most-games-duh-2/index.html
Gigglepoo said:
COMPLETELY depends on the game. Harry Potter in the Wii kills the 360/PS3 version. Using a "wand", while being a bit hokey at first, really pulls you into the game in a way that using a PS3 controller can not.
Just as many thought the DS was a gimmick, I think the Wii will continue to prove it's self out over time.
Monk said:
Thanks for digging this up.
Basically, Hardcore Gamers make up 2% of the market and buy 4.5 gamers per month. The other 98% of the market buys a combined 6.9 per month. So, I was WAY off on my 70% number, but hardcore is still ridiculously important.
According to this survey, 2% of gamers, the hardcore, buy 40% of all games.
cRIPticon, Harry Potter is a crappy game. You shouldn't be pleased that it's selling well on any system.
Death_Born
Banned
cRIPticon said:
The problem with the Wii is that its user-base, consisting of more casual gamers than the other 2 consoles, will buy more shovelware without questioning how good it is. If the Wii turns into another DS, it will be a dream come true, but if nobody tries to develop any "hard-core" games for the Wii using its motion functionality, it will be completely obliterated. And that would be bad, since I have one :lol
Gigglepoo said:
Wow, unexpected. Most people when i give facts with links just dissapear only to come back in a month or so and make the exact same claims again. Kudos to you sir. Anyhow, i dont think any publisher can really ignore the hardcore gamer. But some devs seem to make games that pulls both the hardcore and the casual gamer(Eg. Blizzard) with less than the most technically advanced graphics.
People have always preached the art over technical direcction is more important,but i think it is even more important these days.
Death_Born
Banned
Gigglepoo said:
Wait, 2% of gamers? What exactly is a "gamer" classified as then? Could they include "Minesweeper" players?
Death_Born said:
Define "hardcore game"? Is it a game that alienates the casual gamer? If so i think most publishers disagree.
Death_Born said:
33% of gamers are avid pc gamers, so i suppose it does. But it doesnt affect the outcome that 40% of the games bought are by hardcore gamers.
Glad I don't own a wii because Dave is off the mark by a ton. I wouldn't pick up halo for a variety of reasons but I can tell you now none of my friends with multiple systems or a wii alone give a crap about 360 except the few that have it. Right, I'm gonna spend my money on a gimped fps that runs at 30fps with crappy controls, this is my pc side talking. Who cares what dave thinks of nintendo, nightez and I'm sure others in thread have brought up how anti nintendo he is.
Lastly stop with the novely Wii crap. Is sandbox, 3rd person action, and better fps controls novelty? Outside of racers when it comes to acceleration and breaking, I typically use a wheel but I'm pc for racers mostly, the Wii is just as good if not better for a lot of genres console gamers like. Don't like the system fine but the pure stupidity and ignorance of the comment is quite clear now that people have had the system for months with a decent lineup in various genres. Everyday this generation goes on I can't think what's worse the dumb closed minded niche hardcore that hates wii or the 3rd parties who could be making a ton of money on the system yet whine about it non stop.
Lastly stop with the novely Wii crap. Is sandbox, 3rd person action, and better fps controls novelty? Outside of racers when it comes to acceleration and breaking, I typically use a wheel but I'm pc for racers mostly, the Wii is just as good if not better for a lot of genres console gamers like. Don't like the system fine but the pure stupidity and ignorance of the comment is quite clear now that people have had the system for months with a decent lineup in various genres. Everyday this generation goes on I can't think what's worse the dumb closed minded niche hardcore that hates wii or the 3rd parties who could be making a ton of money on the system yet whine about it non stop.