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[kamorra]

There are two very different definitions of mature in this thread.

 

[Erebus]

Please someone tell David Cage that Deadly Premonition is better than his game. Thanks.

 

[Manmademan]

After Farenheit, I'm not touching anything this guy ever produces.

yes, let's ignore the deafening chorus of praise from critics, and judge him by his last game on the ps2.

 

[fastford58]

Uh, what?

Edit:

Nudity, sex, use of illegal substances by ingame chars, the

Spoiler

cutting of the finger

was one of the gruesomest scenes i have seen in videogames even tho there are a lot of games with over the top violence.

violence, sex, and drug content does not necessarily equal maturity.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

your loss

After one Uwe Boll movie is there any need to watch another? Indigo Prophecy got similarly good reviews and it was a turd.

 

[Manmademan]

violence, sex, and drug content does not necessarily equal maturity.

yes, but depending on the context, they most certainly could be mature THEMES. having played the game, I can't see any reasonable argument against that conclusion.

the game takes the premise of "how far are you willing to go to save someone important to you" and handles it well- some decisions are tough to make, even knowing it's a game.

 

[DMeisterJ]

So glad the game is selling well... Shuts up all the 'LOLz, retailers didn't expected it to bomb so that's why it sold out, not because it's actually a good game that sold well' dumbfucks.

 

[Boney]

If you enjoyed it in the slightest, you should at least give heavy rain a try. It's a much better game - more polished, better character development, better story, more "intuitive" use of QTEs, etc.

I enjoyed like the first hour of the game, but then the supid QTE's, retarded story and no gameplay involved realy, really sucked. I beat it with 3 other friends during summer vacactions and we all left scrathing our heads.

your loss

Yeah... not really though, but I bet you missed SM.

Now, don't get me wrong I'm not raging because his game sold well, I'm glad it did, so he can continue to evolve his designs, I'm just not going to pretenciusly go call his game a masterpiece and a work of art or a Oscar worthy story, especially if it doesn't even do things right that 20 year old adventure games could.

 

[crazygambit]

That was his quote. I cut it because Heavy Rain doesn't have mature themes. It is a thriller game based on violence, action, and explosions. That's fine. I just thought it was a weird putdown.

Can I ask what your definition of mature themes is? (and what games have them?) just curious here.

 

[Manmademan]

After one Uwe Boll movie is there any need to watch another? Indigo Prophecy got similarly good reviews and it was a turd.

Mo'nique just won an academy award for "precious", but since she was in "Phat Girlz" which sucked, there's surely no need to watch that movie, right? right?

judge each game on it's own merits.

 

[dallow_bg]

After one Uwe Boll movie is there any need to watch another? Indigo Prophecy got similarly good reviews and it was a turd.

But this time, users are pretty happy with the end product, not just reviewers. Most people really like the game.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I'm glad it worked out well for David and Sony. I'll admit, I thought the game was going to be excellent, but I thought it was going to tank at retail. I'm so happy to be wrong.

 

[Dabanton]

Uh, what?

Edit:

Nudity, sex, use of illegal substances by ingame chars, the

Spoiler

cutting of the finger

was one of the gruesomest scenes i have seen in videogames even tho there are a lot of games with over the top violence.

How is that mature? All that stuff is 'mature' if you're 13yrs old.

Mature is more than tits, drugs and violence.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

I enjoyed like the first hour of the game, but then the supid QTE's, retarded story and no gameplay involved realy, really sucked. I beat it with 3 other friends during summer vacactions and we all left scrathing our heads.


Yeah... not really though, but I bet you missed SM.

Now, don't get me wrong I'm not raging because his game sold well, I'm glad it did, so he can continue to evolve his designs, I'm just not going to pretenciusly go call his game a masterpiece and a work of art or a Oscar worthy story, especially if it doesn't even do things right that 20 year old adventure games could.

so you played it?

 

[elohel]

IMO this is great for the industry. I bought and managed to play through the title. I wasn't a huge fan of the gameplay mechanic, but I have to say I would love to see more games like this. With all of this acclaim and sales we are all but guaranteed to see more from this 'interactive movie' genre.

i agree, though i actually did really like the game

cool that you can see its gameplay mechanic....merits? i guess lol

yeah hope there's more of this

 

[Zombie James]

pfft, nvm.

 

[Boney]

so you played it?

No, but Amirox's detailed explanations point to that, but I digress, I shouldn't say something like that if I haven't played it.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

Mo'nique just won an academy award for "precious", but since she was in "Phat Girlz" which sucked, there's surely no need to watch that movie, right? right?

judge each game on it's own merits.

Actors have some degree over control over the final product certainly, but unless her acting is bad in that other film I'm going to go ahead and tell you your analogy is seriously flawed. Cage is a director, I'm not saying it's because of the VAs I won't play it, it's because I disagree with what the main creative force considers important and enjoyable. I have different goals to him and thus see no need to play something I'm unlikely to enjoy.

 

[Dogenzaka]

After one Uwe Boll movie is there any need to watch another? Indigo Prophecy got similarly good reviews and it was a turd.

By that logic. Assassin's Creed 2 is as shitty as Assassin's Creed 1.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

By that logic. Assassin's Creed 2 is as shitty as Assassin's Creed 1.

I'm pretty confident that if someone completely disliked Assassin's Creed, they'd be pretty unlikely to enjoy AC2. Confident enough that I certainly wouldn't try to push them into spending their money on it.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Uh, what?

Edit:

Nudity, sex, use of illegal substances by ingame chars, the

Spoiler

cutting of the finger

was one of the gruesomest scenes i have seen in videogames even tho there are a lot of games with over the top violence.

theme (thm) KEY

NOUN:
A topic of discourse or discussion. See Synonyms at subject.
A subject of artistic representation.
An implicit or recurrent idea; a motif: a theme of powerlessness that runs through the diary; a party with a tropical island theme.

yes, but depending on the context, they most certainly could be mature THEMES. having played the game, I can't see any reasonable argument against that conclusion. .

"Shower scene" is not a theme.

Guys, come on. You've taken 8th grade English. The Brothers Karamazov's themes are a Christian's existential culpability to God, what suffering is, and the classic "fathers and sons" motif common to Russian literature of the day. Crime stories can do this if they try. The Maltese Falcon's about the uselessness of trust, the moral rightness of Spade's personal code, and the difference between chasing our dreams and chasing greed disguised as happiness.

Heavy Rain isn't about anything, and it leans heavily on tonally jarring action sequences featuring the same things he just dismissed. David Cage talks like he made a game about the government leviathan or an in-depth character study of someone who can't trust anymore instead of one about car chases. Perhaps he thinks he mastered the craft, despite breaking rules about unreliable narrators, how to reveal the culprit in a whodunit, and consistent tone and pacing. His inability to recognize these is why he remains a laughable figure.

 

[Dogenzaka]

I'm pretty confident that if someone completely disliked Assassin's Creed, they'd be pretty unlikely to enjoy AC2. Confident enough that I certainly wouldn't try to push them into spending their money on it.

Well I completely disliked the first and liked the second one better. :lol

 

[Kevtones]

The nicest thing I can say about Heavy Rain is that I finished it.


That said, the game is an utter piece of shit and probably one of the worst games I've ever completed.

 

[andycapps]

"Shower scene" is not a theme.

Guys, come on. You've taken 8th grade English. The Brothers Karamazov's themes are a Christian's existential culpability to God, what suffering is, and the classic "fathers and sons" motif common to Russian literature of the day. Crime stories can do this if they try. The Maltese Falcon's about the uselessness of trust, the moral rightness of Spade's personal code, and the difference between chasing our dreams and chasing greed disguised as happiness.

Heavy Rain isn't about anything, and it leans heavily on tonally jarring action sequences featuring the same things he just dismissed. David Cage talks like he made a game about the government leviathan instead of one about car chases. Perhaps he thinks he mastered the craft, despite breaking rules about unreliable narrators, how to reveal the culprit in a whodunit, and consistent tone and pacing. His inability to recognize these is why he remains a laughable figure.

When people say adult themes I think they're more referring to adult situations. Situations that are normally reserved for R rated movies, you know, for those over 17 years of age. In that, yeah, you're seeing people's nether regions where we'd normally see them in God of War and it be in a goofy minigame. In Heavy Rain, it's just a scene and nothing is made of it (outside of the sex scene, of which, those are normally in R rated movies too).

Adult themes, to me, does not necessarily that Heavy Rain is making huge, profound statements, but that's it's asking difficult questions of the gamer, how far would you go for love? Would you do anything to get back your son?

 

[Snookie]

Good for him and the team, great game.

lmao. way to take my avatar. :lol

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Well I completely disliked the first and liked the second one better. :lol

Would you offer to buy Captain_Spanky's copy of Heavy Rain from him at full retail price if he didn't enjoy it?

 

[chubigans]

Good for Cage. It's a great game, not the best story in the world, but a great experience with some moments that were among the best that I've ever played in games.

Bring on the DLC.

 

[GhaleonQ]

When people say adult themes I think they're more referring to adult situations. Situations that are normally reserved for R rated movies, you know, for those over 17 years of age. Not necessarily that Heavy Rain is making huge, profound statements, but that's it's asking difficult questions of the gamer, how far would you go for love? Would you do anything to get back your son?

Right. My context and his were clear, though. "There are going to be games with murders and killing and explosions and there are going to be games about mascots jumping on boxes. Mine are not either of those." They very clearly are, by his own definition.

I think we all recall when Bionic Commando 2008 and Gears Of War 2 touched on those same emotions by the dreamweavers at wherever and Epic.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Would you offer to buy Captain_Spanky's copy of Heavy Rain from him at full retail price if he didn't enjoy it?

Uh no.

But I also hated Indigo Prophecy with every fiber of my being, but loved Heavy Rain.

 

[andycapps]

Right. My context and his were clear, though. "There are going to be games with murders and killing and explosions and there are going to be games about mascots jumping on boxes. Mine are not either of those." They very clearly are, by his own definition.

I think we all recall when Bionic Commando 2008 and Gears Of War 2 touched on those same emotions by the dreamweavers at wherever and Epic.

But I think you're playing semantics here, he's talking about games where you're racking up bodycounts of several hundred to maybe over a thousand deaths. You're saying that because he's got a couple action sequences in his game and 1 or 2 people may die because of choices that the player makes that those are the same thing? The difference in the games you mentioned is that for the player to progress, they have to kill everyone in each arena before the wall explodes and they can run through it into the next arena area and rinse and repeat.

 

[ULTROS!]

Well, good thing it's doing well. I really liked the game because it was different and was executed well.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Uh no.

But I also hated Indigo Prophecy with every fiber of my being, but loved Heavy Rain.

Okay, well then, stop trying to push the guy, then.

 

[crazygambit]

Right. My context and his were clear, though. "There are going to be games with murders and killing and explosions and there are going to be games about mascots jumping on boxes. Mine are not either of those." They very clearly are, by his own definition.

I think we all recall when Bionic Commando 2008 and Gears Of War 2 touched on those same emotions by the dreamweavers at wherever and Epic.

What the hell are you talking about? The theme of how far you would go to save someone and the questions the games asks are certainly mature.

Whether the execution is successful is a different matter altoghether.

I just think comparing Gears of War with Heavy Rain is pretty ridiculous. Even in a game like Uncharted that has a story that tries to be realistic you end up killing hundreds of enemies.

 

[out0v0rder]

i hope all games end up being like his

 

[yencid]

Okay, well then, stop trying to push the guy, then.

i dont see any pushing :lol :lol

 

[spwolf]

But I think you're playing semantics here, he's talking about games where you're racking up bodycounts of several hundred to maybe over a thousand deaths. You're saying that because he's got a couple action sequences in his game and 1 or 2 people may die because of choices that the player makes that those are the same thing? The difference in the games you mentioned is that for the player to progress, they have to kill everyone in each arena before the wall explodes and they can run through it into the next arena area and rinse and repeat.

looks like i was right in my original comment, rare thing these days...

Gears of War, Killzone vs Heavy Rain... yeah, you can kill people in both, so obviously very similar games.... right. Just awesome connections there. ha!

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

i dont see any pushing :lol :lol

"I don't want the game"

"You should try it!"

"No, I'm not interested."

"You should try it! I bet you would totally be interested!"

"No, I don't want it."

"Dude, you totally should."

If that's not pushing, then I owe the mormons I pushed into the watarase river an apology.

All I'm saying is, if you're so sure he'll like it even though he's pretty darn sure he won't, then offer to cover the guy's bases, and I'm sure he'll go in for it. I did it before with Yakuza 1 and 2 and Katamari Damacy.

Spoiler

totally ended up with a couple extra Yakuza 1s and one extra Yakuza 2... oh well

 

[Jtrizzy]

Great game. As a 30 year old, I am tired of shooting people in corridors in every game. I really enjoyed kicking back and enjoying the prettiness of the game, without having to be leaning forward so I can stay focused on a reticle.

I also like that the game attempted to discuss mature themes/situation (I don't really care to debate this, the game's is clearly more mature than most if not all others on the market)

I mostly see this game as an evolutionary step for game design, and am hoping to see another project like HR in the future.

 

[BaronLundi]

I cut it because Heavy Rain doesn't have mature themes. It is a thriller game based on violence, action, and explosions.

Really ? You can't be serious or you missed the point of the game entirely.

So a game that put you in the shoes of a father

Spoiler

whose first kid is roadkilled and second abducted and at risk of being murdered

and does that with the intention of emotionally engaging the player, making him feel the anguish of the character and the moral choices he has to decide is not mature in its theme ?

Please provide some examples of mature games please because if Heavy Rain is not I sincerely don't know what is.

Having said that I agree that "adult" situations may be (and often are in games) treated in a very childish way. Heavy Rain does quite the opposite, in my opinion : it's a prime example (and the first as far as my gaming experience is concerned) example of a successful vicarious and cathartic experience in a videogame.

It's not a masterpiece but probably would be if not for the glitches, sometimes annoying VA and horrid plot holes. I think the point of the game is not the story but the storytelling and engagement of the player in the story. And it does a great job at just that.

 

[Replicant]

I'm just glad it's doing rather well commercially. I was hoping it'd be but never thought it'd shoot into number 1 position in Europe chart or number 10 in NPD. Hopefully this means we'll see more DLCs for it although I want it to be longer than "Taxidermist" this time around. I really want to have a 2nd go around at playing Ethan/Madison/Jayden in a different story because I really feel attached to their characters during the main story.

 

[F#A#Oo]

I actually don't mind Cage at all. He is pretentious, but I dont think he is arrogant, just proud.

He's French...that is all one needs to say.

 

[andycapps]

looks like i was right in my original comment, rare thing these days...

Gears of War, Killzone vs Heavy Rain... yeah, you can kill people in both, so obviously very similar games.... right. Just awesome connections there. ha!

Common sense regarding what people say in conversations should be the next topic that David Cage covers. "How far would you go to try to understand what I said in an interview?" :lol

He's French...that is all one needs to say.

I almost spit my coffee all over my monitor. Thanks!

 

[DR2K]

Well deserved. Now put up the DLC.

 

[Raist]

IIT HR's success makes David Cage happy, some people bitter.

 

[BaronLundi]

He's French...that is all one needs to say.

So am I. Are you trying to be more obnoxious than we're supposed to be ? You're doing rather a good job so far.

 

[cornerman]

I just thought it was a weird putdown.

I guess it just doesn't come across as a putdown to me. All he's trying to say is Heavy Rain is different (which it is) and that he wants others to run with his idea (which developers can do/have done), and that not all games should be the same (which they shouldn't).

 

[F#A#Oo]

So am I. Are you trying to be more obnoxious than we're supposed to be ? You're doing rather a good job so far.

You're not parisian are you by any chance?

Where's your sense of humour?

I'm Italian btw...so yes I'm corrupt in nature, a womanizer by trade and I still live with my parents...oh and my mum has a moustache.

EDIT: OH SHIT YOU are Parisian...:lol

 

[HK-47]

It used to be cool to hate on Nintendo and Wii Fit, but hey, now we got Heavy Rain to destroy gaming!

All aboard the hate train...choo...choo!

Personally I am glad that a game so different as Heavy Rain can be succesful - the game reminds me of the good old days of adventure games when story was king.

Yeah it reminds me of how much better the story was in those games.

 

[Brobzoid]

I've not played Heavy Rain yet (dead ps3) so I was wondering how does it hold up on a second play through?
I think any story needs to stand up to repeated reads to be considered good.
David Cage specifically said that he didn't want people doing just that, and to me that just says he either doesn't have faith in his own story holding up or he doesn't understand what makes a good story well told. Any classic story (especially those meant for an older audience) hold up on repeated readings. That's just how shit works. in books, plays, movies and even musical composition. So when Cage actively discourages it that sends a rather negative impression of the game to me.

You're not parisian are you by any chance?

Where's your sense of humour?

I'm Italian btw...so yes I'm corrupt in nature, a womanizer by trade and I still live with my parents...oh and my mum has a moustache.

EDIT: OH SHIT YOU are Parisian...:lol

nice :lol

 

[BaronLundi]

You're not parisian are you by any chance?

Where's your sense of humour?

I'm Italian btw...so yes I'm corrupt in nature, a womanizer by trade and I still live with my parents...oh and my mum has a moustache.

EDIT: OH SHIT YOU are Parisian...:lol

God, my sarcasm detector is way off :lol

(I am rude and arrogant, eat garlic croissants for breakfast, and I talk very loudl... oh wait... we both do that!)

(and I hate parisians too. no really)