Heavy's Sandvich
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Jason died from a broken heart
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David Cage "We Own The Interactive Story-Telling Genre"
- Thread starter ElNarez
- Start date
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
I'd say they do at the moment (depends on how you define it, though), but it's a very small genre. Heavy Rain was supposed to grow that audience, but it has largely failed. I'm still looking forward to Cage's upcoming projects because even when Quantic Dream's end products disappoint me, they carry a rather unique vision.
IamMattFox
Member
The problem with Heavy Rain (aside from the atrocious voice acting, stiff characters, etc.) is the amount of filler that's thrown into the game to extend the playtime. The "interactive story-telling genre" as Heavy Rain presents it is one in which the developers are attempting to create a movie-like experience for the player. The obvious problem with going this route is a good movie will have ~2 hours to presents its characters and story, so the director will have to choose scenes which further the plot and tell you something about the characters. Gamers tend to have an expectation of a hefty amount of story time for a single player only game, which leads to drawn out scenes like the one linked above. The introduction to one of the main characters has you spending time tossing a virtual ball at a virtual wall and wandering around a mundane police station. Spread stuff like that over about seven hours and you have yourself one heavily padded Law and Order episode.
Compare that to something like Half-Life 2 where you're tossed into City 17 and told mankind's basically enslaved, the Combine's king, and Dr. Breen is one bad traitorous dude within a few minutes and almost exclusively by the things you personally experience as Gordon Freeman. You're then sent into a fun campaign that's punctuated by interesting events that are important to the over-arching Half-Life story being told. David Cage could learn a thing or two about good storytelling from Valve.
PS: Truant's right. Heavy Rain's music is awesome.
Compare that to something like Half-Life 2 where you're tossed into City 17 and told mankind's basically enslaved, the Combine's king, and Dr. Breen is one bad traitorous dude within a few minutes and almost exclusively by the things you personally experience as Gordon Freeman. You're then sent into a fun campaign that's punctuated by interesting events that are important to the over-arching Half-Life story being told. David Cage could learn a thing or two about good storytelling from Valve.
PS: Truant's right. Heavy Rain's music is awesome.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Of course, Half Life's biggest problem there is the mute protagonist.
Heavy rain is enjoyable for all the wrong reasons it like a interactive z movie.
Cage needs a new writer and director basically he needs to step back. The tech is interesting but the story was abysmal surely someone at one of the first meetings said the story makes no sense.
Such a cheat.
Cage needs a new writer and director basically he needs to step back. The tech is interesting but the story was abysmal surely someone at one of the first meetings said the story makes no sense.
Such a cheat.
GhaleonQ
Member
mclem said:
The ending to Infidel is actually sort of brilliant and many times cleverer than anything in Heavy Rain.
*thinks of something* Dang. Talk of interactive fiction always makes me think of Emily Short, who's far better at breaking down storytelling than nearly everyone else in the industry. She didn't like it, but she didn't hate it. I wanted to read a real evisceration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Short
http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2010/04/column_homer_in_silicon_qte_la.php#more
Actually, I'd pay to watch a debate between these 2 not because I think she'd win handily (although she would), but because they'd both push each other really far in their explanations. Giving Cage sole access to the podium just allows him to say stupid things.
David Cage has gone on the record saying brushing your character's teeth is in the game because it helps build a connection between him and the player. This is admittance to the attempted creation of Stockholm syndrome on Cage's part. He believes fluffing the game out with mundane events is an acceptable means of creating a bond with fictional characters.
It may or may not work, but it is a very crude and boring means of establishing characters. David Cage still has a lot to learn, and I'm not sure he'll ever get it right. Fortunately L.A. Noire looks to be executing on a similar set of ideas in the same console space at a much higher level. Maybe Cage can crib enough from that to make something passable next time around.
It may or may not work, but it is a very crude and boring means of establishing characters. David Cage still has a lot to learn, and I'm not sure he'll ever get it right. Fortunately L.A. Noire looks to be executing on a similar set of ideas in the same console space at a much higher level. Maybe Cage can crib enough from that to make something passable next time around.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
um.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
PS - HEAVY RAIN IS AWFUL
LordPhoque
Banned
Biggest douchebag in the industry that's for sure. Heavy Rain was a piece of shit just like Fahrenheit, Gruttola.
RadioHeadAche
Member
Heavy Rain gets too much shit, and I wonder how many of those haters actually played it. That doesn't excuse his ridiculous statements, though. Heavy Rain, in my opinion at least, was a good game, but certainly not good enough for him to assume he owns the genre.
Criminal Upper
Banned
"We own the thing everyone else isn't not doing, because...I dunno, they're too busy with that whole "gameplay" fad."
I liked Indigo Prophecy enough until the mid-way point, but was really unimpressed by what I played of Heavy Rain.
Dude needs to make a new Omikron.
I liked Indigo Prophecy enough until the mid-way point, but was really unimpressed by what I played of Heavy Rain.
Dude needs to make a new Omikron.
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
Except that Omikron had some really serious issues too. At least it had Bowie.Criminal Upper said:
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
BMX Bandit said:
Fimbulvetr
Member
Jive Turkey
Unconfirmed Member
If I wasn't about to head off to bed I'd dub over the scene where Nah-mahn and his partner work over Cage's psychiatrist self-insertion character with "I'm Afraid of Americans".JaseC said:
EDIT: No...On second thought I'd use Ashes to Ashes.
CecilRousso
Member
They do own that genre, but they are also alone there. Heavy Rain is an FMV-adventure more or less.
Dance In My Blood said:
the only thing about the game that kinda works is doing a bunch of awkward button-clicking during intense situations. just talking from a design/gameplay standpoint, the attempt to connect the tension from the character to the player showed some level of thinking, unlike everything else about the game (as a game).
the problem i have with heavy rain is that it has too broad a focus. if the game was about the choices one character makes and the many different paths that could take, the game would be stronger. and it would be a lot better if there were no obvious success or failure choices too, just choices. kinda like real life. i mean in heavy rain you could have ethan mars fucking murder somebody and it doesn't fucking matter.
Kitschkraft
Member
QTE's are the lowest form of control in a game, far as I'm concerned. As long as he relies so deeply on them I can't say that he will ever make anything more than an "interesting, but highly flawed" game.
RadioHeadAche
Member
JaseC said:
I did read the article, and that wasn't in it.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Interactive story telling is a single element that many, many genres use. It's not a genre of its own. If that's all your game does, chances are it's not a very good one. I like the interactive story telling in Planescape Torment personally, if we assume by interactive it means there's player choice in how the story unfolds, rather than simply a not so interactive story that occurs in certain sections of a game which has other interactive elements (like say, Silent Hill).
Shake Appeal
Member
I wish I could feed Cage his own gnarled ballsack.
Littleberu
Banned
I'm pretty sure Monkey Island 2 is an interactive story game and it is much better than Heavy Rain.
Callibretto
Member
is he making a sci-fi themed game next? or am I dreaming about hearing that somewhere, either way, I'm hyped for his next project. HR is not perfect, it's laughable at times, but the moment when it works are goddamn powerful, it's worth it to endure the flaws.
plagiarize
Banned
i only just started playing heavy rain, and i'm enjoying it so far, but Indigo Prophecy completely fell apart more spectacularly than any other gamei can think of.Despera said:
it was hugely ambitious, which is why i'd always said i'd play the next game Cage meant, but it is also hugely flawed, and Cage himself admitted to many of the things that i thought were massive misteps in a lengthy postmortem.
Indigo Prophecy was an interesting failure. i'm hoping i don't end up feeling the same way about Heavy Rain.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
I'd pay to see that too. It distresses me to see the myopia exhibited by David Cage and some posters in this thread when interactive fiction existed long before Heavy Rain and has created many, many more successful attempts at interactive story-telling. I could point to several visual novels on the Japanese side as well. Cage's comments prove why Heavy Rain was a failure - if you have no awareness of the past, you cannot learn from it. He needs to study the genre he's working in instead of trying to shallowly ape Hollywood.GhaleonQ said:
StealthGoblin
Banned
LM4sure said:
Fucking hell. The guy had just won three awards for his game and was asked a question. Do people really expect him to just stand there and say nothing?
Oh, and he's working on a new game.
Cage gets too much shit from people IMO. Heavy Rain had its faults, but it'll be remembered for trying something different and for trying to present an emotional story.
He's obviously wrong and being hyperbolic, but I think he means it in the sense that there is no other similar game or concept right now besides Heavy Rain (which is strange to me). There may have been in the past, but currently Heavy Rain, at least in the mainstream, pretty much stands alone. far as I can tell anyway.
That's such a disappointing statement to hear anyone make, especially someone who loves videogames, and I'd like to believe that everyone here does. Heavy Rain, despite its faults, is an incredible step towards innovating the story-driven interactive entertainment genre.Ushojax said:
The haters are coming out in droves here, and I can understand the problems some people had with the game, including the problems with the writing, and ESPECIALLY the fact that they used non-American actors to be Americans (outside of Shelby, who was pretty incredible). But like Jeff Canatta has said several times on Weekend Confirmed, Heavy Rain is a very important reference point, a benchmark, for modern videogames, and it'll be referred to for years to come, and not by any sort of mistake.
If you (and by you, I mean all of the haters in this thread, not just Ushojax) can't appreciate that fact, then I think the medium is lost on you.
On topic:
I think Cage had a few drinks when this guy "interviewed" him for this small piece.
I also find it VERY odd that the OP didn't include a quote in the OP.
That tells me a few things: When he says that they "created the genre," he's not referring to interactive storytelling. He's very specifically thinking of all of the thinking and design that went into their gameplay model, and he sees the gameplay model as the genre. Everything from emulating the character's actions and stress (i.e. contorting your fingers all over the controller while climbing up a muddy hill, or carefully moving through a jungle of electric wires), to using cinematic narrative techniques like having you, the player, do incredibly mundane things like closing a fridge, brushing your teeth, drinking orange juice, in order to ground yourself and the character on a personal, relatable level. This technique is also used and was explained as much by Swery at his recent GDC panel regarding the mundane quirks of his characters in Deadly Premonition.
The other thing this tells me is that he's still very much focused on addressing the adult, mature audience with future titles, which will follow a similar framework to Heavy Rain in terms of the gameplay model.
OP is a sensationalist for making this thread the way he did.
UrbanRats said:
Oh really.
Willing to stick with that statement?
Callibretto
Member
plagiarize said:
it never reach the ridiculous level of Indigo Prophecy which is so bizarre, but at the same time, it never felt as ambitious as Indigo Prophecy either. so in the end, the story felt so ordinary and generic thriller you see every time on movies.
the overall plot is weak, but the storytelling in each individual scene/set pieces is strong and imo, succeed to pull me in and make me feel very emotional during my playthrough.
so as I play through the scenes, I was very engaged by it, wanting to keep playing to see what's next. when it ends and I took a step back to analyze the story, you begin to see all the problem the story has.
I think the hate is there just because lots of people want to think that Heavy Rain is a second coming of Jesus for video game industry. I even saw comments that stated HR revolutionized/ressurected Point & Click adventure games; or comments that stated that you have to be emotionally mature to fully appreciate the game, that HR story is on par with the bests movie thrillers etc. Which, of course, is bullshit.Despera said:
The game is fine, but nothing more. The story is weak and full of plot holes and stupidity, and the game itself is full of unnecessary fillers.