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David Jaffe: Iwata "Has Earned The Right to Fail"
- Thread starter maxcriden
- Start date
eddfromtheriver
Banned
The Wii was a success yes, but i didn't like what it brought to the table, motion controls of any kind suck, nothing replaces a classic controller to interact with games, so i am currently dreading whatever new gimmick they'll try with their next system. But i'm pretty sure that outdated hardware is a given at this point.
I know, it's probably an attempt to sound funny or witty, but that sentence is in very bad taste. And if it's not such an attempt, it's even worse.
The handheld market has been dominated by Nintendo and Nintendo alone from inception, following these very simple rules
1. Offer cheap hardware
2. Offer first party games
3. Profit
All of their handhelds have been resounding successes without any real competition threatening their market leader position. The DS was a true break away star with the novelty of touch controls. Even the 3DS is a great success, though not anywhere near the DS and perhaps it'll match the GBA.
It is only now that there is any real competition with mobile, which do not factor Nintendo into any of their equations. They are beginning to conquer without any regard to the handheld market. A very deadly indirect competitor.
So Nintendo's performance in the handheld market has little to no sway at all in the home hardware market. The formula for success is completely different. Handhelds until now have been guaranteed success for Nintendo. There is almost no real need for in depth discussion about the business model behind that product. Its just been an easy formula for easy profit.
So what exactly should we discuss here? Clearly its in the potentially lucrative home console market that Nintendo has struggled time and again, with the exception of the Nintendo and Wii. Out of 6 home consoles, the first product, released without meaningful competition as it was following a gaming crash, and the Wii were the only stand out, run away successes. So what is there to bring to the conversation by including handhelds?
Thanks to the wonders of modern medicine, we now have procedures to remove that stick.
w1gglyjones
Member
A joint Disney and Nintendo park would make the most sense, financially, I think.
Night Angel
Member
Ice cold.
Sure, Iwata "earned the right" to take risks that could lead to failure. I don't think he should be fired for taking those risks.
He should be fired for how he handled the knowledge of his ideas' failure. Instead of recognizing the issues and acknowledging them, he repeated the same nonsense about how "one" game would save the Wii-U and misled everyone as to the health of the platform.
Now that his errors are so obvious, it falls to him to change. Should he fail to do so, he should be sacked. Nintendo is a business; to allow failure based on past success will only leave them in a deeper hole.
And honestly, the Wii was a great financial success but it was also a failure for Iwata.
How do you walk away from 100m units with zero leverage and no momentum? They didn't improve their brand image -- everyone still thinks Nintendo is for 8 year olds. They didn't improve their relationships with 3rd parties -- largest marketshare and still missing out on most major 3rd party titles, thats unheard of. They built little to no confidence in the customer base -- probably due to the way they abruptly dropped the Wii and silently watched the thing crumble.
As far as the marketplace is concerned, its almost as if the Wii never existed.
"Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose." - Bill Gates
Hypereides
Member
He's right.
however Iwata has made more than one mistake in his market strategy which is a legitimate cause for concern for the upcoming future of the company's thriving culture.
however Iwata has made more than one mistake in his market strategy which is a legitimate cause for concern for the upcoming future of the company's thriving culture.
In November, sure. Before then? Nope, not a chance.
Narpas Sword0
Member
It's weird that he used Sony and the PS3 as an example when Ken Kutaragi got fucked for his fiasco.
Iwata has thousands of employees who depend on him to keep his company running smoothly. This isn't some game that he earns another shot at.
Iwata has thousands of employees who depend on him to keep his company running smoothly. This isn't some game that he earns another shot at.
shouamabane
Member
I really love some of the stuff from Iwata's era, and I really disagree with some of it.
Nintendo's 3DS games lineup from 2013 is hard to mess with. I really want to hear what Iwata has to say on the 30th.
Nintendo's 3DS games lineup from 2013 is hard to mess with. I really want to hear what Iwata has to say on the 30th.
Too bad his own company didn't take that same pearl of wisdom to heart.
Absolutely. I mean, sure they still make billions in profit every quarter, but they could have been making more if they read the market and created an OS for smartphones and tablets like google did. Its partially due to their lack of foresight that Ballmer, despite leading the company to record profits, was shown the door.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
That's funny because I was thinking about that a couple days ago. Nintendo is already like the Disney of video games. Miyamoto is like Walt, only probably a lot more pleasant of a person.
In all honesty Sony was going to lead this generation anyway. The xbox is just not as popular as the PlayStation worldwide except for two markets (US, UK). And MS doesn't have the benefit of a year head start plus being cheaper to fall back on.
_underfooter
Banned
This is more or less how I feel. I think Iwata finally can accept the WiiU has failed, and they must have realized this months ago and began preparing for whatever strategic change is happening.
I figure he's got one more chance. If things don't turn around in 2014 I think he's out. We'll see on the 30th I suppose - I wonder if there'll be some game announcements or hardware/services, or more general 'we plan to do this _____'.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I think a big part of that is that Kaz is Japanese American, Yoshida attended university in California and they've got other people like Jack Tretton and Andrew House in very prominent positions. Most of Sony's developers are here in the West and they naturally follow trends in this part of the world, whereas Nintendo seem very insular and aren't influenced by anyone else.
But this isn't just out of the blue. They've consistently failed to act and take the initiative. Not investing their enormous Wii and DS profits in new developers to better prepare for this generation. Not getting commitment from third parties to ensure they had parity with at least the PS360. Repeating exactly the same mistakes with the 3DS and Wii U launch. Utterly wasting the year head start they had over the competition. Believing that the console was going to sell 9 million units despite all evidence showing otherwise. It's like every issue with the Wii U has been foreseen by everyone except Nintendo.
Yeah, he basically took direct control of Nintendo America and did nothing with it. Although I do agree with Jaffe that after all his successes he has earned the right to fail, there's little sign of change besides vague promises, which he's made many times before.
And besides, Iwata blamed the failures on misreading the American market, but how is the Wii U doing in Japan? I was under the impression it was selling badly globally?
He's not right. We are talking about a CEO and running a major company. A CEO shouldn't get a pass for a company being thrusted into losses for years in a row. For major decisions that have locked Nintendo into the next 5 years, that weren't good ones.
You can make mistakes in the corperate setting, but you have no right to fail. Totally agree with you here. Why is it, some of the games industry endorses all kinds of bullshit other industries would never endorse? Public contempt for their customer, get two jobs, this is what PS3 games will look like, Sony 2005-6?, draconian drm, our system has the same power, our customers just weren't ready or understand our message. Every one knows the list goes on. Add CEO has earned the right to fail to the list.
What dogshit.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I have to agree with post, one of the best post here.
Dark Octave
Banned
If I was an investor, I can value failure until it's my money you are failing with. Calling an investor that is not happy with what is going on with his money an idiot makes no sense.
Also, I never have and never will see the Wii as a success. It's nothing more than a happy accident that it became a holiday frenzy item that also had "production probpems" that added fuel to the fires of holiday madness. The Wii was a horrible idea from the beginning and gamers and devs have proved that with lower game sales, less devs working on it, more shovelware and an earlier death compared to the other two systems.
The Wii was a way for Nintendo to save a buck and people ate it up at first before it became a dust collector under everyone's TV. Nintendo probably could have easily just brought the Wiimote out for the Gamecube just like MS brought out the Kinect for the 360 instead of bringing out a 360.2 and cheating everyone. Oh but the Gamecube was a failure as well, wasn't it.
Now Nintendo decides to go the cheap road again and offer a half step system at a premium price with hopes for lighting to strike twice. They even tried to capitalize on the Wii branding. Well we're not as stupid as we were 8 years ago and your core Wii audience has moved on to the iPhone and Cooking Network for their entertainment.
So while I don't agree with Jaffe that Iwata is the savior who has earned the right to fail, I do believe and hope that he has learned a powerful lesson from this. I hope Iwata and Nintendo as a whole finally understands the importance of not only leading but listening as well.
I hope that in four years a Nintendo console will be my main again, because I haven't had that since the SNES.
Also, I never have and never will see the Wii as a success. It's nothing more than a happy accident that it became a holiday frenzy item that also had "production probpems" that added fuel to the fires of holiday madness. The Wii was a horrible idea from the beginning and gamers and devs have proved that with lower game sales, less devs working on it, more shovelware and an earlier death compared to the other two systems.
The Wii was a way for Nintendo to save a buck and people ate it up at first before it became a dust collector under everyone's TV. Nintendo probably could have easily just brought the Wiimote out for the Gamecube just like MS brought out the Kinect for the 360 instead of bringing out a 360.2 and cheating everyone. Oh but the Gamecube was a failure as well, wasn't it.
Now Nintendo decides to go the cheap road again and offer a half step system at a premium price with hopes for lighting to strike twice. They even tried to capitalize on the Wii branding. Well we're not as stupid as we were 8 years ago and your core Wii audience has moved on to the iPhone and Cooking Network for their entertainment.
So while I don't agree with Jaffe that Iwata is the savior who has earned the right to fail, I do believe and hope that he has learned a powerful lesson from this. I hope Iwata and Nintendo as a whole finally understands the importance of not only leading but listening as well.
I hope that in four years a Nintendo console will be my main again, because I haven't had that since the SNES.
But the Wii was a play for the short term. They didn't improve third party relations or gear up for HD development, they killed a cash cow with sports/fitness/Mario games before the fad died out. It's in the big picture where Iwata and by extension Nintendo come out looking the worst - as opposed to the little picture in which the Wii/DS successes make up a large part. Should Iwata go because of the failure of the WiiU alone? No. But many of the WiiU's problems are the culmination of backwards/antiquated philosophies and strategies that have plagued Nintendo for over a decade. Nintendo's history more closely resembles a steady decline than it does "up and downs."
IMO Gamecube and N64 "failed the right way." Did they have the same problems you associate with Nintendo systems? Fuckin absolutely. Weak third party, droughts, carts, mini-discs, being purple, having a handle, all that. But tech wise they were about as good as anything out at the time, and the games they did have were great for core gamers. When I pull out my GC and fire up Resident Evil, Metroid Prime, and F-Zero, today, I mostly have no problem with that console and what it stood for. The Wii? I got big problems. The WiiU? Failing with superficial, forced gimmicks and because of lessons not learned for over a decade is not failing the right way.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's what I'm waiting for myself. I think that's when we'll get some information on what he plans to do.
Refreshment.01
Member
Deserves to be quoted again, and this is from someone who thinks that taking Iwata away does not constitutes a solution to NIntendo's problem.
Also we should consider that the mistakes have been piling since the last 2 years of the Wii's life, all mistakes from there on.
Well, its rare I disagree with Jaffe but he's right on the spot here I think. People really have crazy opinions and comments towards Nintendo since some years. I don't know the fuck why and its great to see there's people who can still have thoughful opinions or a critical view of them.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It was a tad pathetic seeing the console get ripped on by gamers who just got into video games right when the next gen stuff came along. I followed PS since PS1, so when the tides settled it was a huge relief.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Actually I'd imagine it's more down to the money the company made by his successes vs lost by his failures
very good points, especially since Iwata had been head of the company for most of the GC years, he should have known that Wii's level of success isn't easy to come by and should be used to strengthen the company. As a fan I remember being upset by this at the time as well.
Is that actually what you have extrapolated from what he said or are you just trolling?
You summarized your own though very well. You clearly missed the point.
Jaffe was taking about people that will ditch the value of a creative or executive person as soon they fail at something, like they aren't of any value anymore. There CLEARLY is such a tendency, at least in the american society. As soon as a successful person makes a mistake, we ditch them, like it was impossible for them to not be great. Well, real like is that exceptional people are taking exceptional risk and also encounter as much failure as normal people. Its just that they never did let a failure get the best of them and they always continued. They never gave up and got other successes. That's how life is and some people tend to forget it. So what you're babbling about here got nothing to do with Jaffe's saying, he just saying not to ditch Iwata because of the failure of the WiiU and he thinks there's also of great potential left into him.
I would imagine that the smarter thing to do would be determining whether or not the quality of the decisions Iwata is making should warrant more chances to fail.
If, for example, the Wii U was a truly forward thinking piece of tech, and the strategy behind it was one that took into account the realities of where gaming is today and where Nintendo could potentially forge a path going into the future, and in the and it failed for unforeseen circumstances, in this scenario I could understand giving Iwata the A for effort. I think most gamers would be applauding Iwata, not calling for his head, if the source of the Wii U's problems had been him going too big and being too bold with his approach.
But this isn't the case with the Wii U. The Wii U failed for the same reason the 3DS initially failed: rather than surveying the industry and the desires of modern gamers, Nintendo thought they could just half-ass previous strategies and profit. Iwata isn't being forward-thinking here. The source of his issues isn't that he's "just being a creative." Iwata's problems stem from his unwavering insularity, and his desire to pinch pennies and not spend until he absolutely has to.The failure of the Wii U is the culmination years of lessons not learned. That is the polar opposite of the type of CEO who deserves the opportunity to make more mistakes, and that doesn't change just because once upon a time the Wii happened.
Though they could have at some point. Didn't MS among others (including yahoo) turn them down when they were shopping Steam around.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
It's ignoring logic.
Much as I love Logz I will never understand why he believes it's destiny for Nintendo hardware to flatline. Bad products for changing markets seem to me at least to be the reason Nintendo rarely has a hit. More often then not its because they have misread what the market wants. Sometimes (like in WiiU's case) so badly.
Products don't fail because of divine prophecy. They fail because they weren't the right product. My problem is I have no idea what the right product is. It's not a competing powerhouse they failed spectacularly with that (GCN), it's not chasing casual gamers they're failing spectacularly with that too.
While not fully comparable in the strictest sense, the Iwata situation is increasingly reminding me of Square's back in 2001 and dumping their main man after one failure. They bring in a finance guy (Wada) with no game developing background to make the decisions to return to profitability and eventually compromise everything that built up the company.
Of course, it doesn't have to go that way for Nintendo, but I imagine many are frightened of a similar potential outcome if Iwata is dumped.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
No,
If you're not prepared to be wrong, you will never come up with anything new or different.
Taking calculated risks is part of being a CEO of a company is about. A company will always be about trying to grow. That's it's all encompassing grasshoper destroying nature. To grow you need to test your limits.
So yes, everybody has the right to fail. Failing is part of being human, and putting people to such standards were it's not okay will cause misery and ruin. Failing has consequences, depending on how you fail at something. But then we would be going into a whole different discussions about the sensibilities about using the word failing in the context of human achievement.
Yeah but, he's basically 1-1, and the WiiU is more of a failure than the Wii was a success. Dead after one year? You can't compare that to the PS3. This isn't like a coach with a history of a winning program who just had one bad rebuilding year. The WiiU was a bad idea with even worse execution, and Nintendo looks rudderless right now.
w1gglyjones
Member
Come again?
-- Let's not invest in online even though all of our competitors, and really the entire world, are. It's not proven now.
-- Let's not invest in HD, even though all of our competitors and potential partners are. It's not proven now.
-- Ok, so we didn't invest in an HD console this go around like the rest of the industry; Luckily it paid off and the Wii is a huge success! However, let's at least get our teams established and trained on HD development, so that way our inevitable transition to HD can be a LOT smoother than what the rest of the industry is going through. On second thought...nah!
-- Maybe we should introduce some new IP geared towards hardcore gamers, and get those audiences established on our platforms so that 3rd parties will have more confidence in their flagship software selling on our platforms. Focusing on new IP for a while might also give our legacy IP time to recharge so we don't risk milking them into obscurity. Pfft, we don't need to do that.
-- Maybe we should look into unified account systems? Tying a customers purchases to an account instead of to the hardware itself, despite being much more logical, might actually encourage people to upgrade when we introduce new hardware. Actually...pfft! Why would we do that?
-- Oh, here's a good idea, guys: Let's LET THE WII DIE about two years before we have a successor ready to replace it. Surely the Wii brand can hold out, right?
One of the biggest misconceptions I see parroted about Nintendo is that they're a forward-thinking company. They are anything BUT forward-thinking. I mean, that's their whole problem right there. When given the opportunity, they have always prioritized immediate, short-term gains over better positioning themselves long-term. The Wii U's failure is the result of all the things they've put off doing this entire time because they weren't viewed as being immediately profitable or too big a risk.
