• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

David Jaffe sets Twitter on fire after calling Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom “bland and old looking”

tmlDan

Member
No it's called objective standards. Pokémon Scarlet/Violet can be considered ugly and technically offensive.

People are calling TOTK many things but "ugly" is not generally one of them. Sure the game is not as technically impressive as games running with 8 Terraflops or whatever but it's still using a visually pleasing art style and has many other graphical effects that hold up just well enough for a 2015 tablet.

If you think its uglyn fine thats your opinion, but the majority of people do not and has nothing to do with nostalgia when half of those people were born after 2000. This ugly talk is a case of the few but loud, with some being hyperbolic and controversial for the sake of it.
The majority of discourse is people who are calling it ugly and another group either loving the game, killing themselves attaching bombs to boomerangs, or making penises.

A lot of people are done with nintendos console in 2023 looking worse than their iphone.
 

fatmarco

Member
I don't think anyone is saying it's technically impressive though, I don't think any reviewer mentioned this as a positive. I'm one of those people that wishes it was on a more powerful system believe me BUT for the Switch is the Switch and there is almost no point complaining about its graphics capabilities at this stage. It's like giving Donkey Kong Country 3 a shit review because Super Mario 64 has already been released and why can't the SNES do 3d.
Yeah I do agree to a point that complaining about a Switch games graphics can be foolhardy given it's obviously not going to produce "modern" graphics, but even with that in mind I still think the game should look substantially better than BOTW just due to the context of that games development. It feels unambitious and a lot of the visuals seem that, even within the limitations of the Switch, could have been "arted" better too (and obviously those PS3/360 games are examples working within even greater limitations too).

I do just think it's a bit unfair how arbitrarily graphics can damage a review score on one game, then be completely ignored as a "factor" on another. Obviously you get away with bad graphics or art if the game is good, but when you see 10/10's I'd argue that there should be nothing about a game that isn't near flawless, and to me TOTK does fall short in terms of graphical/artistic innovation on a Wii U port with around 6 years of dev time and getting used to the hardware.

Obviously it seems harsh, but fundamentally these should be the standards for a game that's getting a perfect score. It should get to the point where it almost feels like nitpicking.
 

Gambit2483

Member
The majority of discourse is people who are calling it ugly and another group either loving the game, killing themselves attaching bombs to boomerangs, or making penises.

A lot of people are done with nintendos console in 2023 looking worse than their iphone.
fNVxX1X.jpg


No one was saying shit about it's visuals until Jaffe made a Twitter post. No one was saying shit because, unlike Pokémon, they were and still are (at the very least) pleased with its graphical presentation.
 

tmlDan

Member
fNVxX1X.jpg


No one was saying shit about it's visuals until Jaffe made a Twitter post. No one was saying shit because, unlike Pokémon, they were and still are (at the very least) pleased with its graphical presentation.
so his tweet....with 8k likes and counting is nobody? There's certainly a large group that agrees.
 
The majority of discourse is people who are calling it ugly and another group either loving the game, killing themselves attaching bombs to boomerangs, or making penises.

A lot of people are done with nintendos console in 2023 looking worse than their iphone.
"a lot of people" are just a vocal minority compared to millions of happy Switch users who continually buy software for Switch while not caring about gwafix and powah.

And if people were so obsessed with that stuff as you claim, then even a PS5 wouldn't cut it for them, so they'd have to have a very expensive and high end PC.
 
"a lot of people" are just a vocal minority compared to millions of happy Switch users who continually buy software for Switch while not caring about gwafix and powah.

And if people were so obsessed with that stuff as you claim, then even a PS5 wouldn't cut it for them, so they'd have to have a very expensive and high end PC.
Yeah - this is what I'm thinking. Continued software and hardware sales definitely indicate otherwise (ie not being obsessed with aforementioned attributes).
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
No one was saying shit about it's visuals until Jaffe made a Twitter post. No one was saying shit because, unlike Pokémon, they were and still are (at the very least) pleased with its graphical presentation.

Not true. The trailer and preview threads were full of posts such as that. Especially when they decided to up it to $70 within the same gen on their flagship IP.
 

bender

What time is it?


-"It's bland and old looking", but "I don't give a fuck about amazing production value+viusals" and then couching the critique that he's stunned it isn't getting dinged by reviews is just weird. Just own your own sentiment and don't pass the buck.
-Tribalism and discourse "these days" is no different than it has been in the past, we just have more accessible and highly visible places to voice our opinions.

Zelda can look quite bad. Last night, I scaled a smaller cliff and was looking over really large field and thanks to the LOD, it looked incredibly stark and simple. While those moments happen, I've more often been impressed with what's been on the screen. You can make most games look bad, even games with highly regarded visuals. Doubly so with open world games. Maybe a good comparison for Jaffe would be GTAIII. I long argued that prior generation hardware could render any given scene in that game but certainly couldn't present a cohesive world with the amount of interconnected systems involved. It would be interesting to go back and read reviews and see how critical the reception to the graphics were.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
I don't think anyone is saying it's technically impressive though, I don't think any reviewer mentioned this as a positive. I'm one of those people that wishes it was on a more powerful system believe me BUT for the Switch is the Switch and there is almost no point complaining about its graphics capabilities at this stage. It's like giving Donkey Kong Country 3 a shit review because Super Mario 64 has already been released and why can't the SNES do 3d.

This is basically PS and XBOX and PC gamers completely jealous that a non technically impressive game is going to beat out all the next gen systems for game of the year.

At the end of the day do people not believe this is a game worth the money?
This line of thinking has been a real headache for Nintendo games since the Switch released. With Pokemon and Advance Wars and games like Link's Awakening I'm 100% with you but not with this.
I'm PC gamer, that's a console war thing, all the PC gamers I know go more in hand with Nintendo than other platforms so there's barely if any hate for Nintendo making history, PC and Nintendo are a pretty marriage most of the time due to their focus on gameplay first.

BTW, game looks great but would appreciate better IQ, many people in this thread seem to be mixing IQ and Fidelity... The game needs better IQ but it was designed for 1080p displays, if someone is complaining it doesn't look pixel perfect on their 70" 4K displays it's on them and their expectations.
 

tmlDan

Member
"a lot of people" are just a vocal minority compared to millions of happy Switch users who continually buy software for Switch while not caring about gwafix and powah.

And if people were so obsessed with that stuff as you claim, then even a PS5 wouldn't cut it for them, so they'd have to have a very expensive and high end PC.
get out of your echo chamber, its not a small vocal minority.

It was triggered by the increase in price Nintendo forced on people
 
get out of your echo chamber, its not a small vocal minority.

It was triggered by the increase in price Nintendo forced on people
Get out of your fanboy chamber. You and a few others on a small message board are just sipping sour grapes. As I said in the other thread, this title is so much more worthy to be at that price point than 90% of other games.
 

tmlDan

Member
Get out of your fanboy chamber. You and a few others on a small message board are just sipping sour grapes. As I said in the other thread, this title is so much more worthy to be at that price point than 90% of other games.
what's fanboyish about that, come back with proper reasoning.

ridiculous.
 
Not gonna lie, I generally don't give a shit about graphics but I bought the game last night and booted it up and.... Yea it don't look great. Like it actually stood out to me that it is wayyyy behind graphically. It could just be I haven't used my switch in about 6 months, so I'm sure I will get use to it. But yea, I don't think it's "unfair" to call it out.

Having said all that, I'm sure I'm gonna love it, really liked BoTW when I played it so it's really not that big a deal in the end.
 

Gambit2483

Member
so his tweet....with 8k likes and counting is nobody? There's certainly a large group that agrees.
Tweet likes? Tweet likes?? From the cesspool of an internet landfill known as "Twitter"? Half of which are probably from ppl who haven't played the game nor plan to and may be from people who hate anything Nintendo? 🤨

You can't be serious...

Maybe some of you need to boot up Pokémon Scarlet/Violet again if you need to be reminded of what an "ugly" 1st party open world game looks like.
 
Last edited:

tmlDan

Member
Tweet likes? Tweet likes?? From the cesspool of an internet landfill known as "Twitter"? Half of which are probably from ppl who haven't played the game nor plan to and may be from people who hate anything Nintendo? 🤨

You can't be serious...
you're taking this way too seriously, it shouldn't hurt your love for something just because it doesn't look good graphically
 

Gambit2483

Member
Not true. The trailer and preview threads were full of posts such as that. Especially when they decided to up it to $70 within the same gen on their flagship IP.
As I recall ppl were questioning whether or not there was enough new content or if it was just "glorified DLC" to warrant the $70 price tag...nothing to do with the visuals.

In fact didn't DF put out a video analysis of one of the trailers/pre release footage stating that it was looking better than what a normal Switch game was capable of...which led to speculation of a possible next gen version...but ok sure, let's continue with false narratives.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
As I recall ppl were questioning whether or not there was enough new content or if it was just "glorified DLC" to warrant the $70 price tag...nothing to do with the visuals.

In fact didn't DF put out a video analysis of on of the trailers/pre release footage staring that it was looking better than what a normal Switch game was capable of...which led to speculation of a possible next gen version...but ok sure, let's continue with false narratives.
I remember the "DLC" comments as well. I also recall seeing people question that it did not look any better and some cases worse.

And DF's most recent video? About that.
 
What the hell are you talking about? The majority of people who have played and reviewed it have no problem with the art style. If anything, it's the people who call it "ugly" that are in the severe minority here...but it's the internet, who needs facts?
Correct, the art style is fine, but in a lot of places, the game looks bland, arid, and empty. Which has nothing to do with the art-style and has more to do with the capabilities of the Nintendo Switch and its lack of power. When they say bland and old looking its true. The game looks like a GameCube title due tits's lack of objects that it can handle at once. Criticism is ok.
 
Last edited:
I guess that is a fair point to be made, but I doubt most people are looking for extreme boundary pushing graphics on the Nintendo-funking-Switch. Seems like some needless bitching to me, I sincerely doubt this game looks any worse than BOTW.
 

Hawk269

Member
While I am enjoying the game, I have to say visually it is not all that great. IQ is really bad in certain areas and it has a muddy look. The game is fun, has a lot of great ideas and the execution of all the play mechanics is great. But if we are talking about visuals, it is pretty bad overall. Game deserves to be on a stronger platform.
 

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
Pretty much always.

Pretty much never. We always have influence from the most powerful machines, when xbox one or PS4 versions of games were coming out against Xbox one X versions, more often than not reviews would comment on how rough the xbox one version looked vs the xbox one X version, or PS4 pro version. But even more so when they are a generation behind, it was most obvious on the Wii U since it was a dinosaur compared to it's competition when it launched (xbox one and PS4).
 
Opinions man.. Like assholes. I think God Of War 2017 and Horizon are fugly games with generic fantasy artstyles. The enemy design in God of War was just poor and I am not impressed with detail for the sake of detail. Design is subjective. What Jaff thinks is good and what I think are good are very different.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Opinions man.. Like assholes. I think God Of War 2017 and Horizon are fugly games with generic fantasy artstyles. The enemy design in God of War was just poor and I am not impressed with detail for the sake of detail. Design is subjective. What Jaff thinks is good and what I think are good are very different.

They are both eh with the enemy design scale.
 
Last edited:

Fahdis

Member
I'm PC gamer, that's a console war thing, all the PC gamers I know go more in hand with Nintendo than other platforms so there's barely if any hate for Nintendo making history, PC and Nintendo are a pretty marriage most of the time due to their focus on gameplay first.

BTW, game looks great but would appreciate better IQ, many people in this thread seem to be mixing IQ and Fidelity... The game needs better IQ but it was designed for 1080p displays, if someone is complaining it doesn't look pixel perfect on their 70" 4K displays it's on them and their expectations.

COMPETITIVE PC gamers in general need to be graced with 720p low latency 240 hz without any textures. What a way to collectively lump us all together. No we aren't all the same. Also, Nintendo sucks!
 

Maxwell Jacob Friedman

leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
To be fair,nintendo dont go around claiming their console is the world strongest console terallops bla bla bla unlike xbox

People would expect redfall to be as amazing as their system claim to be tho 🤷🏻‍♂️
Doesnt matter we in 2023 and sub par getting 15/20 frames. You cany tell me technically there isnt something wrong with the game and it deserves perfect 10's
 
Graphics(Image quality, shadows, textures resolution) 5/10.

performance (frame rate, loading times)
6/10

gameplay (UI/UX controls, accessibility -control mapping) 6/10

Mechanics 10/10

design 10/10

music 10/10

art direction 10/10

story 7/10

=

8/10.

+ 1 thanks to Nintendo's Magic/Nostalgia

9/10

+1 for the fear to be blacklisted.

10/10.
 

Alien Man Elusive

Neo Member
Everything about the BotW-era of Zelda is “sandbox”, and that extends to the visuals too. I’m just grateful that we got 5 Ocarina-style Zeldas. That was very much my shit. The new stuff isn’t for me.
 

Allandor

Member
Well this is also my impression of the game. Looks totally outdated and not really better than the last open world Zelda which was made for the Wii u.
Visuals are not that important but I really can't read any longer reviews that praise the graphics of that game. It sure has its own look, but the graphics looks just really really outdated with blurry textures and generic trees ... paired with flickering

At least I would expect something on par with Skyrim on the ps360 but even that isn't the case. Sometimes it seems that the reviewers didn't know such titles on the ps360 generation.

Also the big world is totally empty. Even Skyrim had more things in its far to big open world. And I don't want to start with the Witcher 3
 
Last edited:

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
I guess that is a fair point to be made, but I doubt most people are looking for extreme boundary pushing graphics on the Nintendo-funking-Switch. Seems like some needless bitching to me, I sincerely doubt this game looks any worse than BOTW.

Here is the reality. People bitch that the game looks ugly and that we "really need" a next generation Nintendo console (not that I disagree on that). However, they would find reasons to bitch even if this was released on a PS5 level console simply because it is Nintendo. It is console warring, plain and simple.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Here is the reality. People bitch that the game looks ugly and that we "really need" a next generation Nintendo console (not that I disagree on that). However, they would find reasons to bitch even if this was released on a PS5 level console simply because it is Nintendo. It is console warring, plain and simple.
If they released this on a PS5 powered console in the same fidelity, ya damned right we would all bitch that they phoned it in ala Gamefreak. 🤭
 

OuterLimits

Member
That generation had Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto V, LA Noire, Far Cry 3 and 4, Metal Gear Solid V, and Batman Arkham City amongst others, all I'd argue which look at least slightly better or significantly superior to this.

Obviously graphics don't matter as much here, but no one should genuinely be saying this is technically impressive when this only looks marginally better than BOTW, and that was a up-ported Wii U game.

Zelda actually has an open world the player can interact with in numerous ways and also pretty cool physics. Many of the games you mentioned had pretty good graphics but it was largely just eye candy.

So despite having worse graphics than some other open world games, I find myself enjoying Zelda far more than most of them.
 
Last edited:

Tams

Member
I'm sorry but I just gotta say this. It's something that if you have any negative critique about any Nintendo game even while still praising the gameplay, you still get destroyed on the Internet simply because you dared to say something negative about a Nintendo game. Nintendo should get criticized the same way Microsoft and Sony do. Its not like he said the game looks dated so it sucks. He still praised the game overall.
Bollocks.

The very two comments above yours are saying the game looks bad. So that's not you getting 'destroyed'.

Now, I think you are all wrong and need to go to SpecSavers, but there are plenty of dissenting voices.
 
Top Bottom