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[davidjaffe]

Okay so the industry will have to change and adapt to the changing market. Maybe everyone shouldn't be making $60 AAA games. I think due to the power of the next gen consoles graphics will be good enough that you can make smaller\indie type games that provide completely different styles of game play, while still satisfying millions of people with their visuals.

With middle ware engines like UE4 and Crytek shouldn't they make game creation slightly cheaper?



It's good to hear that you might come back to making console games in the future. And I wasn't trying to say that you were lying, but a guy like myself has to think twice when a person in your position switches focus on the type of games that he makes and then says something like this.

I heard you on the Giantbomb E3 podcast the other day and you were really really pushing the benefits of browser gaming and general and crapping on console gaming. You were saying stuff like it's so much work to get off the couch, put in the disc, go through the XMB, start the game, and then watch the legal stuff pop up on the TV.

And to me none of that stuff seems like a big deal, but you made it seem like it was extra tough and too long to play console games. And you were making it seem like it was so much easier just to jump on your computer and play a browser game. To me it sounded like you were selling me and the audience on the difference between the two (browser and console gaming) and this article reminded me of that.





So will these TVs be streaming games from a server? If so which one? What company will be providing these games? Will I have to pay a monthly fee for this service? Will my ISP be offering unlimited amounts of data in order to due this? Are will ISPs offer a gaming "Package" that's an extra $20 a month?

And what if I don't have that extra money per month to spend? What if I move and it takes me close to a month to get the internet turned on? Will I not be able to play my games for a month? And if it's an American company that Microsoft or Sony cuts a deal with, will that mean that they will have to cut different deals with international companies in Europe and Asia? What about poorer countries that aren't 1st world, but not 3rd world that don't have the infrastructure for streaming only systems but do have the money to buy consoles in 2020? Will they all just buy the available Nintendo console? Because we all know Nintendo won't do something as stupid as this.

Do you not see how streaming only gaming consoles in 2020 will be a shitting thing to provide? Why not at least make it an option and put it "INSIDE THE CONSOLE"!

Been playing console games with the kids all morning (Disney Adventures, Rayman Origins . On Giantbombcast I also said I loved a lot of what I saw at the show, most of which were console games (pretty much all of Ubisoft's booth, Recoil, Hell Yeah!, NeedForSpeed, The strategy ver of XCOM, Aliens, Borderlands2,etc.) My point on that bombast (always fun to do) was that for a lot of folks, there is so much competing for our entertainment attention today that the time from 'hey, I wanna do activity X' to your ability to actually be doing activity X is mattering more and more. Especially when you strip away the spectacle, next gen visuals, and initial big screen immersion that comes with playing on a console,you are left with pure game mechanics that a great % of the time are just as engaging (not the same mechanics, but just as engaging mechanics) on devices that get you into the game sooner.

A great example: I play more Uncharted:Golden Abyss on my Vita than I did Uncharted 3 on my PS3. Clearly the spectacle and visuals are worlds better on U3* but 80%+ of the core game (shoot and navigate) is the same. If I can reach for my Vita and be in the game world within SECONDS vs the 5 min it takes to jump into a PS3 game of U3, then for me, this is a super easy trade off. And I'm ok admitting part (most?) is an age thing. As little as 10 years ago, I'd be at the movies almost once a week. Now I still watch movies and tv all the time but 90% of the time I do it at home because the experience is better in most cases (faster, less expensive, I control the conditions,etc). It takes a really special movie to get me to go thru the trouble to go see it in the theater these days (last one that we went to that was for me and not about taking the kids was AVENGERS). Maybe if console games placed a premium on experiences you could only get on console (graphics aside, I'm talking about gameplay), then I'd be playing my consoles more and more.

But I don't hate consoles or want them to die. Not at all, for tons of reasons. But do I think cloud gaming into a tv would be better for gamers and the biz? IF some of the great issues brought up in this thread- mostly bandwidth related- can be solved, then I really do. But it's just a prediction and - as I made clear in the interview- probably an incorrect one. I have a terrilble track record with this stuff. I would not be surprised if we were playing on consoles in 10 years. But if I HAD to guess (and that was the point of the interview question: me doing some guessing), then I would say we will be streaming our games (mega big epics and small indie titles) into our teles.

David


*mighty impressive indeed, and I get that bleeding edge visuals are super crucial for some gamers....and I love great visuals too but they are not that big of a deal to me compared to convinience.

 

[davidjaffe]

Jaffe I am a huge fan and I hope you go back to making games for consoles, I have never been a fan of free to play games for whatever reason but I will check your game out as you tend to make games I like.

But I think 10 years is a little optimistic for your prediction. Too few people have access to high speed internet and too few ISP's can support that type of data usage. But in 20 years? I think that prediction is more accurate for 20-25 years than for 10.

In the short term consoles are here to stay, just too many issues with data usage and access to broadband for it to work in just 10 years. But I am excited to see the idea of no longer needing to buy a box to play my games as a consumer it will save me shitloads.

Also I hope you do go back to making console games, I can't get enough Twisted Metal and I hope you come back to that franchise.

Thanks for being a fan ! And thanks for being willing to check out our new game. Trust me, I don't like free to play games either because I think they totally fuck up game balance. That is why I want us to make one: because we THINK we have a way to do it so it's fair and it speaks to gamers. And great thing about PLAY FOR FREE is it's free to try*. If you hate it, move on...but I hope you will love it. And if you've loved the stuff I've worked on before, this is very much in the same spiritual vein.

No plans to return to TM but anything is possible. I'm sure cars with guns- be it Twisted Metal or a different game-will never be that far off from being on the menu.

David

*another thing I love about free to play is it doesn't cost tons of cash or time to get the game out to gamers. So we can soft launch the core idea and within a month we will know what is working, what sucks, what to change,etc. I get the visuals are not bleeding edge but anyone who follows me knows I'm all about the gameplay so to me, I'm thrilled to trade bleeding edge visuals if it means we can provide a better play experience. Our visuals will still be really cool, I feel. I love the art style. Just saying gameplay - in games- always comes first for me.

 

[mckmas8808]

Been playing console games with the kids all morning (Disney Adventures, Rayman Origins . On Giantbombcast I also said I loved a lot of what I saw at the show, most of which were console games (pretty much all of Ubisoft's booth, Recoil, Hell Yeah!, NeedForSpeed, The strategy ver of XCOM, Aliens, Borderlands2,etc.) My point on that bombast (always fun to do) was that for a lot of folks, there is so much competing for our entertainment attention today that the time from 'hey, I wanna do activity X' to your ability to actually be doing activity X is mattering more and more. Especially when you strip away the spectacle, next gen visuals, and initial big screen immersion that comes with playing on a console,you are left with pure game mechanics that a great % of the time are just as engaging (not the same mechanics, but just as engaging mechanics) on devices that get you into the game sooner.

A great example: I play more Uncharted:Golden Abyss on my Vita than I did Uncharted 3 on my PS3. Clearly the spectacle and visuals are worlds better on U3* but 80%+ of the core game (shoot and navigate) is the same. If I can reach for my Vita and be in the game world within SECONDS vs the 5 min it takes to jump into a PS3 game of U3, then for me, this is a super easy trade off. And I'm ok admitting part (most?) is an age thing. As little as 10 years ago, I'd be at the movies almost once a week. Now I still watch movies and tv all the time but 90% of the time I do it at home because the experience is better in most cases (faster, less expensive, I control the conditions,etc). It takes a really special movie to get me to go thru the trouble to go see it in the theater these days (last one that we went to that was for me and not about taking the kids was AVENGERS). Maybe if console games placed a premium on experiences you could only get on console (graphics aside, I'm talking about gameplay), then I'd be playing my consoles more and more.

But I don't hate consoles or want them to die. Not at all, for tons of reasons. But do I think cloud gaming into a tv would be better for gamers and the biz? IF some of the great issues brought up in this thread- mostly bandwidth related- can be solved, then I really do. But it's just a prediction and - as I made clear in the interview- probably an incorrect one. I have a terrilble track record with this stuff. I would not be surprised if we were playing on consoles in 10 years. But if I HAD to guess (and that was the point of the interview question: me doing some guessing), then I would say we will be streaming our games (mega big epics and small indie titles) into our teles.

David


*mighty impressive indeed, and I get that bleeding edge visuals are super crucial for some gamers....and I love great visuals too but they are not that big of a deal to me compared to convinience.

I hear what you're saying. I guess we'll see.

I did want to say that I also watched your interview with John Davidson at E3 and it was great. I love your honesty. There's nobody more fun to disagree with in the industry than yourself. But I did agree with you with Free to Play games. It's not doing it for me for the same reasons that you mentioned.

And I was happy to hear you say that the media should push back to developers and publishers. Sometimes it seems like the PR people just get in the way. But I guess that's their jobs.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Okay so the industry will have to change and adapt to the changing market. Maybe everyone shouldn't be making $60 AAA games.

Of course it'll have to change and adapt, and that change could be dedicated consoles being phased out. Everyone shouldn't, but if the mid tier market is dying, what are you going to make? Many are forced into that direction just to try to make money

I think due to the power of the next gen consoles graphics will be good enough that you can make smaller\indie type games that provide completely different styles of game play, while still satisfying millions of people with their visuals.

What? Somehow new powerful consoles don't suddenly automatically generate graphic content. That still has to be made, and that's what costs money. New consoles aren't going to make smaller\indie type games suddenly have better visuals.

With middle ware engines like UE4 and Crytek shouldn't they make game creation slightly cheaper?

Sure, cheaper than say if they didn't have those engines, but we already had UE3 this generation which a lot of things use. Look at what dev costs are now despite that.

 

[flyinpiranha]

There's no need for a dedicated games console. Even in 2012 it's ridiculous.

Of course there isn't a 'need' ... but there are millions and millions of 'wants'.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Of course there isn't a 'need' ... but there are millions and millions of 'wants'.

There are, you're right but honestly, I have to wonder whether there will still be millions of wants a decade from now. My daughter IS a gamer. She will be 4 years old in July. You may laugh at me labeling her a gamer but she plays the 3DS, she plays the Wii, the iPhone, iPad, etc. She's quite good too, especially with the 3DS and Mario Land.

She's growing up with both dedicated gaming hardware AND multipurpose hardware. As TV's become 'smarter', tablets become more capable of outputting impressive visuals, phones play an even deeper part in our lives, I don't know if she's going to care about a dedicated gaming device. Shoot, I don't know if I am going to care about one.

I have a Vita (just bought MGS HD and love it) and 3DS. I NEVER take them out of my home even though they're 'portable' devices. As phones become more powerful and capable of impressive visuals AND eventually have some type of controller method included besides touch, I don't see why I would continue buying dedicated handheld devices. Sony is already putting their PS1 games on Android and I can see a decade from now where we have PS3 games on other OS phones/tablets. Everything is heading to convergence devices and I don't see that changing.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

This is the third Gen in a row that was supposed to be the last. I think I'm ok with him saying that, but until we get crazy photorealistic scenes there's still room for consoles to grow.

 

[-Amon-]

I don't really see streaming as a viable solution as Jaffe looks to think. At least not worldwide.

The real question for me is if ten years from now there will be enough demand for 60 dollars games.

 

[mckmas8808]

She's growing up with both dedicated gaming hardware AND multipurpose hardware. As TV's become 'smarter', tablets become more capable of outputting impressive visuals, phones play an even deeper part in our lives, I don't know if she's going to care about a dedicated gaming device. Shoot, I don't know if I am going to care about one.

I have a Vita (just bought MGS HD and love it) and 3DS. I NEVER take them out of my home even though they're 'portable' devices. As phones become more powerful and capable of impressive visuals AND eventually have some type of controller method included besides touch, I don't see why I would continue buying dedicated handheld devices. Sony is already putting their PS1 games on Android and I can see a decade from now where we have PS3 games on other OS phones/tablets. Everything is heading to convergence devices and I don't see that changing.

But as phones become more powerful, obviously just due to physical size they will never be as powerful as dedicated consoles right? I mean you can't beat the physics on that.

And why can't the dedicated console be "THE" convergence device?

 

[elcapitan]

I like Sony's idea of console streaming even though it never really took off with the PS3/PSP. I'd like to stream from a dedicated console to any display in my house. Play downstairs in the living room, pause, go upstairs, and stream to a TV up there and continue playing. You can extend this idea to any display device, like the PSVita, tablet, cellphone, etc. I can understand Nintendo's reasoning for their controller when I look at it from that perspective.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

But as phones become more powerful, obviously just due to physical size they will never be as powerful as dedicated consoles right? I mean you can't beat the physics on that.

And why can't the dedicated console be "THE" convergence device?

Phones don't have to be as powerful as dedicated consoles. If I can get PS3 visuals on my cell phone/tablet, that would be amazing and for many people, it'd be 'good enough'. It's one thing for the Wii U to just have PS3/360 visuals since its a dedicated console competing against the PS4/720, but a tablet/phone that has the same visuals would be amazing for many.

Also, the dedicated console 'could be' the convergence device but I'm not sure that Sony/Microsoft will want to continue releasing expensive hardware that takes years for them to get back into the black with. Why not just release a cheap device, say an Apple TV $100 device that streams the content and has yearly upgrades instead? Cheap to make, can sell for a profit, and still control the living room? And if you're like Microsoft who is banking on convergence devices/systems, seems to accomplish the ultimate goal of living room domination.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

Jaffe being Jaffe, and love him for it.

I have no clue what the future holds, but I just know I hope its not the last gen of consoles. Even at 30 years old, I think the best feeling in the world is picking up a brand new console.

 

[Eusis]

Also, the dedicated console 'could be' the convergence device but I'm not sure that Sony/Microsoft will want to continue releasing expensive hardware that takes years for them to get back into the black with. Why not just release a cheap device, say an Apple TV $100 device that streams the content and has yearly upgrades instead? Cheap to make, can sell for a profit, and still control the living room? And if you're like Microsoft who is banking on convergence devices/systems, seems to accomplish the ultimate goal of living room domination.

This is why I don't think it'll take off, nor do I want it to. Granted, $100 isn't too bad but you're likely not going to get much further than LAST generation with that much money, and to have power more comparable to today it'd require $200 or $300 yearly updates. Yeah, I may be fine with PC working that way, part of the appeal is that I can either make something just good enough to play a few low end games or a monster that can crush even the most high end (and reasonably optimized) games, and while it's exasperating at times phones can operate this way it's not as big a deal for a device you'll do way more than play games on, but for something that's primarily about games? I want reasonable assurance that I don't need to replace it every few years, and that games won't run worse just because I didn't jump at the latest model.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

For some reason, I see handheld gaming surving than console gaming if it were to ever happen. Handheld gaming is more accessible (and mobile to boot).

Hell, I haven't bought a handheld since GBA, and when I played it, it was usually at home. I remember playing Metroid Fusion out in the balcony on a sunny day, though if I do remember correctly it was hard to see the screen.

I've been thinking about getting a handheld. Something to play at home and at work. I hate sitting in my depressing breakroom having 40 minutes until I clock back in.

 

[Inanna]

Apple ipad and iphone games DO NOT provide the same experience as Wii or DS games do, which is why I think that Wii fans would definitely be interested in Wii U.

Also, I really really don't want the games on ipad and iphone to be "the future" of gaming... I'd probably quit gaming forever if that were to happen!