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[alstein]

Well, when it comes to VF stuff, I mainly post at VFDC. I'm pretty sure it's the same for VF regulars over here.

A few folks are posting here hoping to get some new blood into the game. VF folks are very similar to anime game players in how they approach the community, except that they're often older and have more time commitments.

As for sales, the FGC is kinda smallish compared to the mainstream genres, so without casuals, you can only get so many sales. Some games find it easier to cater to casuals than others.

 

[patapuf]

Well now, this thread got all full of knowledge. I wish people who were passionate about DOA would give us that same knowledge as the Tekken players do (Sayah!). Or is DOA just that casual game as most people are claiming here?

DOA 4 came out 7 years ago and was a poor competitive game (the previous titles were fine). The new one looks much better and they changed a lot of stuff the community requested but we have to play it for details .

In general it relys more on timing, mindgames and positioning rather than memorisation and execution. The Rock papers scissors systems are also more pronounced than in other fighters, which is why you see a lot more throws.

Edit: stages are something that stands out as well. Danger Zones, give additional damage, Most stages are Multi Level and there are different surfaces with different properties like water/ice/ground ect. Lot's of destructible Objects too.

 

[Mr_eX]

Well now, this thread got all full of knowledge. I wish people who were passionate about DOA would give us that same knowledge as the Tekken players do (Sayah!). Or is DOA just that casual game as most people are claiming here?

Are you asking for someone to explain all the systems and mechanics in DOA?

I will say that in my experience DOA rewards skill whereas Tekken rewards memorization.

 

[Vazra]

Basic Stuff on DOA

For more information CLICK HERE

 

[Doomshine]

I will say that in my experience DOA rewards skill whereas Tekken rewards memorization.

I promised myself I would not get caught up in this, but come on...

 

[Skilletor]

Are you asking for someone to explain all the systems and mechanics in DOA?

I will say that in my experience DOA rewards skill whereas Tekken rewards memorization.

Eh...I love DoA, but I'd say Tekken takes far more skill to play. It has far more extensive execution requirements than anything in DoA. And, if we're talking DoA4, the game has typically rewarded a lucky guess more than skill.

 

[AAK]

Are you asking for someone to explain all the systems and mechanics in DOA?

I will say that in my experience DOA rewards skill whereas Tekken rewards memorization.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Every fighting game demands memorization for you to get proficient with your character and learning matchups whether it be an input of your move or the trajectory or other properties of your opponent's moves to beat out.

And you can memorize every move in Tekken but if you lack the execution to space and land such a move it's pointless. Same thing with a lack of reaction time and such. You can have the knowledge of every low attack your adversary throws in your memory but if you can't react to it with the proper line of defence there is nothing you gained from that memorization.

Tekken rewards you for everything: memorization, reaction times, mind games, among many other things but IMO the most important is execution. ALL of these things, take skill.

 

[MCD]

Let's do this the casual way:

Tekken only got Asuka. Shit sux.

 

[LifeIsLife]

DOA5 is the obvious choice

 

[Vazra]

This is where its at. DOA and Tekken suxs (JK)

 

[LowParry]

Are you asking for someone to explain all the systems and mechanics in DOA?

I will say that in my experience DOA rewards skill whereas Tekken rewards memorization.

More like character specifics. I know the basic understand of how DOA works but how about character specifics? I'm not trying to dismiss anything out of the conversation. For example: Helena.

 

[Vazra]

More like character specifics. I know the basic understand of how DOA works but how about character specifics? I'm not trying to dismiss anything out of the conversation. For example: Helena.

http://doa.ign.com/
Go to the articles and read the character breakdowns to know some of the things they have going on DOA5.

 

[Skilletor]

More like character specifics. I know the basic understand of how DOA works but how about character specifics? I'm not trying to dismiss anything out of the conversation. For example: Helena.

Early impressions are that Helena is going to have a really tough time in DoA5. The change in the ground system (no forced auto techs) hurts Helena more than a lot of characters. In DoA4, that was a really strong part of her offense. Out of her BKO (phoenix stance, pretty much) F+P, she had a guaranteed forced tech. On the force techs, certain characters created an unholdable situation. So Helena was able to set up a really mean 50/50 over and over again off of the tech. She could throw or she could attack, you just had to react to either one.

her P+K would crush some mids and highs, she was evasive as all hell, and relatively safe (DoA4 has frame data worse than SC4 as far as safe attacks go).

Most of this has changed in DoA5. Her damage output is lower, she doesn't have forced techs, p+k (and I might have that notation wrong, it's been awhile...it's a palm strike) doesn't crush as well. A lot of the characters can circumvent the stun system with safe strikes and by creating unholdable stuns (limbo and sitdown stuns). Apparently Helena is forced to play similarly to DoA4. They also slowed down the activation of BKO.

Helena is one of my favorite characters, so I'm still wanting to give her a go, but so far it seems the worst impressions come from characters that are forced to play the DoA4 stun game, while the best come from those characters that can avoid doing just that.

 

[Endo Punk]

This is where its at. DOA and Tekken suxs (JK)

Not sure if serious but I really love the Bloody Roar franchise, and would kill for a current gen sequel.

 

[LowParry]

http://doa.ign.com/
Go to the articles and read the character breakdown to know some of the things they have going.

Man, I'm so behind on this game. That's pretty sweet. Helena being low tier. Psh. She'll be high tier for life in my book. Here's hoping Mila is amazing. A boxer type character in a DOA setting sounds pretty cool.

 

[Vazra]

Not sure if serious but I really love the Bloody Roar franchise, and would kill for a current gen sequel.

I love Bloody Roar as unpolished as it was. I wished there was a HD sequel but we know what happened to Hudson.

Man, I'm so behind on this game. That's pretty sweet. Helena being low tier. Psh. She'll be high tier for life in my book. Here's hoping Mila is amazing. A boxer type character in a DOA setting sounds pretty cool.

We'll see when the game is released some people always manage to find their ways to use characters considered low tier.

 

[Chairhome]

I'm more of a VF guy, but TTT2 looks like so much fun. I bought DOA on 3ds and didn't really get into it.

Are there any deals going on for TTT2 right now? I think newegg had it for $45 or something a while ago, but i missed out on it.

 

[Doomshine]

I'm more of a VF guy, but TTT2 looks like so much fun. I bought DOA on 3ds and didn't really get into it.

Are there any deals going on for TTT2 right now? I think newegg had it for $45 or something a while ago, but i missed out on it.

Don't know about deals, but I would check this site to make sure the place you're buying from gets the pre-order stuff. Read the FAQ. I almost bought the game from a site that had no bonuses, but then I saw that the FAQ said that particular site had nothing.

http://tekken.com/preorder

 

[Mr_eX]

Eh...I love DoA, but I'd say Tekken takes far more skill to play. It has far more extensive execution requirements than anything in DoA. And, if we're talking DoA4, the game has typically rewarded a lucky guess more than skill.

I'd say Tekken is a more technical game for sure. What I'm saying is that because DOA is less technical it's more of a level playing field, so it rewards those that are better at actually playing the game. It's like Street Fighter in that way.

 

[Doomshine]

I'd say Tekken is a more technical game for sure. What I'm saying is that because DOA is less technical it's more of a level playing field, so it rewards those that are better at actually playing the game. It's like Street Fighter in that way.

I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say. What exactly do you mean by "better at actually playing the game"?

 

[patapuf]

I'd say Tekken is a more technical game for sure. What I'm saying is that because DOA is less technical it's more of a level playing field, so it rewards those that are better at actually playing the game. It's like Street Fighter in that way.

Skill is really a meaningless differentiator as it's an aggregate of different things you need to do to be good at the game. DOA and Tekken focus on different Skillsets.

 

[Skilletor]

I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say. What exactly do you mean by "better at actually playing the game"?

Skill is really a meaningless differentiator as it's an aggregate of different things you need to do to be good at the game. DOA and Tekken focus on different Skillsets.

Probably of the mindset that extensive execution in fighting games gets in the way of the metagame. Since DoA doesn't have anything really difficult you can focus more on "just playing."

It's not a viewpoint I agree with. I tend to agree with patapuf.

 

[Finaika]

Let's do this the casual way:

Tekken only got Asuka. Shit sux.

Jun

 

[Skilletor]

Jun

Cosign.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Pre-ordered Tekken today! I'm one of those weirdos who likes Kunimitsu, so I couldn't pass those DLC characters up (I'm aware they'll eventually be available for everyone).

I'll definitely be getting DOA5 as soon as I can. It really looks special: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNh1w-6izmQ&feature=relmfu

The animations (dat Kasumi). The impact of the hits. Looks like it's really satisfying to play. That ruined temple stage is absolutely gorgeous.

But in the end I went with the safe choice.

 

[zlatko]

Casual fighting game player? DOA5.

Hardcore Illuminati member of the FGC? TTT2.

 

[RM8]

This is where its at. DOA and Tekken suxs (JK)

Man, I think I still own this. I loved it. I remember it having fantastic visuals.

 

[Esura]

Probably of the mindset that extensive execution in fighting games gets in the way of the metagame. Since DoA doesn't have anything really difficult you can focus more on "just playing."

It's not a viewpoint I agree with. I tend to agree with patapuf.

Its probably a stupid mindset to agree with but I actually agree with that nonetheless.

Casual fighting game player? DOA5.

Hardcore Illuminati member of the FGC? TTT2.

The freak?

 

[AAK]

Probably of the mindset that extensive execution in fighting games gets in the way of the metagame. Since DoA doesn't have anything really difficult you can focus more on "just playing."

It's not a viewpoint I agree with. I tend to agree with patapuf.

A viewpoint I disagree with as well. In a competitive environment, the game should reward the player that put in the time and effort to maximize his/her execution. And yet still the game also is giving you tools to win a mindgame to overcome a defecit in execution skill between you and your opponent but in the end does require a much higher presence in mind.

But again, that doesn't mean Tekken can't be enjoyed in a fun non-competitive environment either. The game still has enough flash a simplistic controls (just 4 buttons corresponding to each limb + tag) for people to just have some dumb fun with.

Let's do this the casual way:

Tekken only got Asuka. Shit sux.

You wanna do this the casual way? Tekken has a boxing velociraptor:

Ball's in your court.

 

[HyperHip]

This is where its at. DOA and Tekken suxs (JK)

I want another Bloody Roar.....

 

[DEATH™]

Let's do this the casual way:

Tekken only got Asuka. Shit sux.

Tekken has the MANLIEST CHARACTER in all fighting games...

http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114745

Warning: reading the thread will instantly grow you 3 weeks of beard

Jun

 

[patapuf]

I wasn't implying either game has more depth than the other. There are just different skillsets required to win in either game.

Just like i need to do different things in a game of Call of Duty and Battlefield to win. They are different games.

 

[Chairhome]

Don't know about deals, but I would check this site to make sure the place you're buying from gets the pre-order stuff. Read the FAQ. I almost bought the game from a site that had no bonuses, but then I saw that the FAQ said that particular site had nothing.

http://tekken.com/preorder

Yeah, I already knew about the pre-order stuff, thanks. Just wondering if anyone still had any deals going, since i could probably wait on the dlc stuff. I was even thinking of selling some dlc that i don't want to save some money, haha. I think I might just trade some stuff in at gamestop, since they have an extra 30% for pre-orders on TTT2. Best Buy has extra 100% trade in but i'll still get more at GS for the games i want to trade in.

 

[LowParry]

I wasn't implying either game has more depth than the other. There are just different skillsets required to win in either game.

Just like i need to do different things in a game of Call of Duty and Battlefield to win. They are different games.

At the end of the day, you play what you enjoy most regardless of the mechanics of the game. It's just poking fun at the other games. Though some people do take it rather seriously.

 

[DR2K]

Are you asking for someone to explain all the systems and mechanics in DOA?

I will say that in my experience DOA rewards skill whereas Tekken rewards memorization.

DOA is definitely more reading your opponents. The Defender will have more options to defend and spend a lot less time and health taking juggle damage. Whereas Tekken there is a guessing game, but the defender will spend a good portion of the round being juggled, with his only hope that the opponent drops the combo.

Memorization plays a huge role in Tekken more than any other fighting game I can remember. The emphasis on juggles more than anything else. It's definitely not the fighting game new players are going to be able to go into without a lot of sturggle. The system and characters haven't really changed much since Tekken 5, so it's the equivalent of trying to get into MVC2 in its final years. OGs will wreck the shit out of you.

 

[LowParry]

Ehhhh, I'd argue that Tekken 5 plays nothing like Tekken 6. All due to the Bound System. So if people are wanting to get some time in before TTT2 is out, go with Tekken 6.

 

[DR2K]

Ehhhh, I'd argue that Tekken 5 plays nothing like Tekken 6. All due to the Bound System. So if people are wanting to get some time in before TTT2 is out, go with Tekken 6.

They were really just juggle extenders. I mostly used the same combos and strats from Tekken DR to Tekken 6 with Lili. I just added her bound to extend combos. General system mechanics didn't really seem changed.

What I like about TTT2 is that you can get that second chance (other character) to continue the ground game.

 

[MonkeyKing]

Getting Tekken at launch, then DOA5 as part of the eventual TRU B2G1 later this year (along with Borderlands2 and.....something. We'll see)

 

[Doomshine]

They were really just juggle extenders. I mostly used the same combos and strats from Tekken DR to Tekken 6 with Lili. I just added her bound to extend combos. General system mechanics didn't really seem changed.

What I like about TTT2 is that you can get that second chance (other character) to continue the ground game.

Calling it nothing but a juggle extender doesn't do it justice, bound has generated tons of new setups and tricks.

As far as general system mechanics... giving everyone 10 frame jabs and fully tracking moves helped balance out the cast a lot.

 

[AAK]

Another huge difference from T5 is the nerfed movement and sidestep, the sidestep especially helped tame Mishima's from their DR iteratoin. And THANKFULLY they fixed a lot of the off axis wakeup issues that plagued a lot of times I played T5 but there are still some instances where it comes into play in T6.

 

[alstein]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Every fighting game demands memorization for you to get proficient with your character and learning matchups whether it be an input of your move or the trajectory or other properties of your opponent's moves to beat out.

And you can memorize every move in Tekken but if you lack the execution to space and land such a move it's pointless. Same thing with a lack of reaction time and such. You can have the knowledge of every low attack your adversary throws in your memory but if you can't react to it with the proper line of defence there is nothing you gained from that memorization.

Tekken rewards you for everything: memorization, reaction times, mind games, among many other things but IMO the most important is execution. ALL of these things, take skill.

My argument is Tekken has more emphasis on execution and less on the other factors compared to other 3d fighters. See all the movement cancellings and being able to react out of throws (though only a few can do it) as examples. That stuff is hard.

 

[Canis lupus]

Any DOA5 special editions in Europe coming?

 

[patapuf]

Any DOA5 special editions in Europe coming?

You mean the CE? those can be bought. I got the pre order DLC too.

 

[Doomshine]

My argument is Tekken has more emphasis on execution and less on the other factors compared to other 3d fighters. See all the movement cancellings and being able to react out of throws (though only a few can do it) as examples. That stuff is hard.

VF has some of this too with fuzzy guarding.

 

[Dantis]

Any DOA5 special editions in Europe coming?

The the CE and there's also preorder costumes.

 

[AAK]

My argument is Tekken has more emphasis on execution and less on the other factors compared to other 3d fighters. See all the movement cancellings and being able to react out of throws (though only a few can do it) as examples. That stuff is hard.

I do agree that Tekken rewards execution, but alas because of that depth in movement the amount of control you have of your character is unparalleled in Tekken. And even though your execution is an important factor to high level play in Tekken, the core gameplay still encompasses all the other factors present in other 3D games (and 2D). There still is a high level of guessing involved in Tekken but less so than VF since the type of throw break can be telegraphed and the fact that you can option select if your backdash cancel execution is up to par which can beat out almost everything. But Tekken can still compensate in the area when compared to VF in the wakeup and okizeme game of Tekken where there are a lot more options available to both the aggressor and the knocked down.

EDIT: And yeah, what Doomshine also said, Backdash Cancelling in Tekken can be analagous to the Fuzzy Guarding in VF.

 

[Sayah]

Fanboy please.

Tekken 6 was half price within 2 weeks, was such a unashamed flooding of the channels from Namco (200k america, 200k japan yet shipped 3.5 mil, good one Namco) that SC5 paid the price and this game will suffer for it. SfxTk even lasted longer @ full price than T6 lol. People act like Harada is putting in so much content because of SfxTk or something, more like trying to recover people and wholesalers he burned with Tekken 6 console. Harada has fixed a lot of things, content and netcode (well going by SC5), but after T6 he has to go the extra mile.

So much negativity. lol
If Harada and team wanted, Tag 2 could have just been an arcade port with no additional content. In fact, everyone was expecting Tag 2 to be just that. They are bringing back characters that haven't been seen in a Tekken game for over a decade. They are doing SO MANY things that are new for fighters. And SFXTK has nothing to do with this. Namco execs had announced way before SFXTK's release that TTT2 would be one of the most content heavy Tekken games ever.

And T6 is one of the best fighters of this generation, shitty netcode and scenario campaign aside.

He's a man of knowledge... and Power.



Come to the VF OT once in a while and show your support to the game at least by looking for matches accross GAF. A good majority of you VF lovers need to support your game a lot more. And it's not like there's a huge barrier of execution needed to enjoy the game either. There's no excuse for a game like VF to have such low activity for a 2 month old game while SSFIV, Blazblue, and even shitty netcode games like KOFXIII get more traffic.

@ Sayah, man Mr. Taxi's okizeme are things of beauty. The tech trap and OKI master however is considered Sodom according to Korea... check out the tech traps Sodam pulls out with solo Ling in this deathmatch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W673OzX-CY

Amazing how creative his setups are.

Wow. SOOOOOOOOOO GOOD.
Watching through the whole vid right now.

TTT2 won't sell well because fighting games just aren't that popular. People don't really like games that are just two characters pummeling each other.

The reason SF4 did so well is because it had been an extremely long time since another numbered SF had come out, and it was a clear nostalgic grab, banking off people's memories of playing SF2 on consoles.

Aside from SF4, the only other game that's really done well is MVC3 and that is for the same reason – fond memories and a long break between games.

3d fighting games peaked in the PS1/Dreamcast era, but crucially, they've never slowed down and hit a slump of significant size. There have been SCs, DOAs and Tekkens coming out every year or two years or so for at least a decade now. There isn't a huge audience that's just champing at the bit to see how Kunimitsu looks in her new watermelon bikini.

I suspect TTT2 will sell more than T6 because fighting games did have a resurgence recently, but we're looking at 300-350k, not a million-seller (or even half that). It'll hit the $20 bin in a couple months.

SMH.

Are you asking for someone to explain all the systems and mechanics in DOA?

I will say that in my experience DOA rewards skill whereas Tekken rewards memorization.

..........................

 

[AAK]

Casual fighting game player? DOA5.

Hardcore Illuminati member of the FGC? TTT2.

I missed this post. Just letting you know my friend, probably 90% of the 3.3+ million people that bought T6 for casual play

 

[Criminal Upper]

I'm buying both, but personally I'm looking forward to DOA5 more.

 

[xemumanic]

If the core question is basically "if you could only get one, which would you get?", then TTT 2 is my choice.

The reason being is that if DOA 5 had the entire VF cast (at least everyone from VF 2) then it'd be a wash. I wouldn't be able to give an answer because they'd be more 'equal' in my mind. Its my only knock on the game from what I've seen thus far IMO. Honestly, it's not really even a knock against the game, it's that the more I see of the game, the more I wish the complete VF 2 cast was there, the game would be better for it. DOA 5 seems to integrate the ones they have as if they've always belonged. Seeing that has me only wishing for more.