Support NeoGAF

[Gbeav]

but Criterion feels that for this game doesn't need it, take that however you want.

Hey I just thought about this while listning to the giant bomb podcast tonight and how they stated the game didn't sell worth a crap and what they have to do to improve that.

I was just trying to put my point out there that sales are still available if they just make it more friendly for the casual user.

I never asked for the game to be changed for everyone.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

How does that matter in my OP.

If replying to your exact OP:

"I am not a hardcore player and do not desire to drive back to do it again. All I want is to do the same race over and over again and finish the game in my own time. You are trying so hard to make me want to buy it but unless I can have fun I don't care if you give me extra roads, extra cars or bikes because I am not having fun.

I have money for you, do you want it?"

The answer is obvious: No. They don't plan on, and probably won't do retry (everything else that's been suggested by people mailing them, the weather (fog is a weather ), the Day/Night stuff, etc that they didn't flatout rejected from the start made it through.)

So no, I guess they don't want your money.

And I've just realized I've invested too much of my time, like many others in any other Burnout thread, trying to say why not having a retry is fine if you give it a chance.

 

[TheHeretic]

Because that has been countless times where I did fail, drove back, and found shortcuts on the way? The retry button reduces and eliminates any exploration in the game, which basically nukes any reason for them to put any of the shortcuts, jumps, etc.

HOW does a retry button eliminate the need to find shortcuts? If the races are hard enough people will use them. If there are leaderboards people will use them. When playing online people will use them.

There have been shortcuts in fixed circuit racing games for forever and people have always used them.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

funny that the Devs can you all the "freedom" in this massive world but not the freedom to retry.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Hey I just thought about this while listning to the giant bomb podcast tonight and how they stated the game didn't sell worth a crap and what they have to do to improve that.

I was just trying to put my point out there that sales are still available if they just make it more friendly for the casual user.

I never asked for the game to be changed for everyone.

Giantbomb, who has the financial statements of Criterion? Online leaderboards for both games show around 1 million players each. In which universe does selling 2 million copies not sell worth a crap?

 

[Gbeav]

funny that the Devs can you all the "freedom" in this massive world but not the freedom to retry.

I think that was braveheart.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

HOW does a retry button eliminate the need to find shortcuts? If the races are hard enough people will use them. If there are leaderboards people will use them. When playing online people will use them.

There have been shortcuts in fixed circuit racing games for forever and people have always used them.

You can use them, if you find them first. I'm suggesting that having retry means unless you look on the internet on every shortcut in the game (which I even doubt there's a cataloged list of), it's going to be damn hard for you to even spot them.

 

[TheHeretic]

You can use them, if you find them first. I'm suggesting that having retry means unless you look on the internet on every shortcut in the game (which I even doubt there's a cataloged list of), it's going to be damn hard for you to even spot them.

Forcing people to explore the game through tedium isn't a solution. Exploring the city is fun enough without creating artificial reasons to do so.

 

[Gbeav]

Giantbomb, who has the financial statements of Criterion? Online leaderboards for both games show around 1 million players each. In which universe does selling 2 million copies not sell worth a crap?

Ask them, not me.

I'm not looking out for Criterion, Giant Bomb or Greenpeace. By the sounds of it here I am not alone and I have money to spend.

 

[Mar]

Not this thread again. I'm not even going to bother.

 

[Gbeav]

Not this thread again. I'm not even going to bother.

But you did.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Forcing people to explore the game through tedium isn't a solution. Exploring the city is fun enough without creating artificial reasons to do so.

Ask them, not me.

I'm not looking out for Criterion, Giant Bomb or Greenpeace. By the sounds of it here I am not alone and I have money to spend.

Hey, don't argue with me. I'm not them with the development resources. I've stated why I think it's still worth trying, and you guys don't want to agree, so that's fine. They've made it clear on both their forums and podcasts that they don't want to do retry. I'm just sick of seeing this argument every time someone post something new about Burnout.

Not this thread again. I'm not even going to bother.

Agreed. I'm just going to stay out now. First stab at something constructive in a burnout thread, and look where it's gone.

 

[Gbeav]

They've made it clear on both their forums and podcasts that they don't want to do retry.

Fine, then I wasted some space on the servers. I didn't know this was brought up before elsewhere.

I'll leave it alone and let this thread die.

 

[firehawk12]

Agreed. I'm just going to stay out now. First stab at something constructive in a burnout thread, and look where it's gone.

You know, your work with the map is getting me really close to buying the game. I did have a decent amount of fun screwing around the map in Test Drive Unlimited and there were times that I just drove for the sake of driving.

 

[Chorazin]

I bought this game on launch, really excited to play it. I figured the lack of a retry option wouldn't bother me, as I love the Burnout series so much.

Sadly, that wasn't the case for long. I would lose a race and just be angry because I had to drive all the way back to where I started. I always have a compulsion in racing games to play the same track over and over until I get first place, or the best time, or whatever the victory condition is, and I couldn't easily do that here. It completely killed my enjoyment of the game.

I ended up trading it in a few weeks after purchase. All the stuff Criterion has added sounds awesome, but I won't get it again until retry is added.

 

[Burai]

The thing that bugs me is if I'm heading west and fail, there's absolutely nothing to do in the mountains.

The ironic thing is that I love riding the bikes for the hell of it (possibly cos of the constant timed streets) whereas it bores the hell out of me to aimlessly drive the cars.

What I'd really like is for Criterion to put a junkyard in the mountains. That way if I fail on a burning route, I can switch to a bike and enjoy the ride back.

 

[mysticstylez]

Thats my biggest gripe too. The whole "there is a new even at every intersecton" excuse does not work. If I'm doing a Burning Lap, and I come oh so close to the time, I wanna start right over again.....not do a Stunt Run cause it's close by.

That and not being able to warp to any particular spot during free roam. If I come across an event that I'm not using the right vehicle for....I should be able to hit Start, warp to a garage, switch cars, then come back.

 

[Hypno Funk]

I've found myself having many sessions of BP that may only last 20-30 mins, where I won't win any events, becuase i'll just keep failing multiple different ones, if I dedicate that 20 mins to nailing one route, i'd at least be one victory up.

I don't see why they don't put a retry option in. I would like one, and it'd make me play the game more.

GTA4 allowed retry through the mobile phone, if it hadn't people would have got annoyed, the case isn't that different here.

Personally a retry option would be just as integral as a frequent save system in a game (which BP does at every breath it seems). It streamlines the experience, and allows players to learn through their errors. Not repeating the same errors becuase they've forgotten the route due to not getting round to the same event every so often.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

I only beef with this game

is that @ whatever speed, i tap the breaks and the car turns 360 degrees!!!

piss my the fuck off, till this day i cant remember when i have actually drifted in Paradise, which i did alot of in other Burnout titles.

 

[levious]

I only beef with this game

is that @ whatever speed, i tap the breaks and the car turns 360 degrees!!!

you sure you don't mean 180? Even then that's quite a stretch.

 

[GitarooMan]

The game's major flaw is not the lack of retry, but the complete lack of pacing in the single player progression. The move from license to license is a bit mundane, repetetive, and gets old about halfway through. Although the racing is generally solid, big parts of the city design are boring. Note that I don't hate the game, just think that the single-player is a bit lacking compared to Burnout 3 and Revenge.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Not buying the game due to lack of retry is fucking petty. Seriously.

I'd buy that no crash would be a reason, but no retry? Really? Reeeeallly? More like you didn't buy it and now you're trying to justify why you didn't buy it with silly reasons.

You claim not to be a hardcore player, therefore you won't be the kind of person to try for 100%, therefore having to drive back to events near the end of the game isn't going to be an issue.
Stop being a baby, not being able to retry doesn't make the game terrible. It's dumb to even say something like that.

i'm hardcore, and the way i see it, not having retry is just a way for them to cater just to the casual ADHD fans who don't really care about perfecting a route, but just want to 'finish the game' by doing whatever random shit is closest to them, then doing the next random shit that's close.

that's just not how i roll, so i skipped it. i don't have ADHD. no retry doesn't make the game terrible, it's just makes it not worth my money. let the hyperactive folk play their spaz game. i'll just spend my money on something else. there's lots of other games that are made by developers who want my money.

 

[AndyD]

Did it have more to do with just having more events littered around in general? Typically, when people talk about the Paradise demo, that was the number 1 thing that is mentioned, all the "annoying driving" between any given event.

That was my biggest issue in the demo. But the game did not have that issue. THere was always an event, a road to rule, a fence, a billboard or something nearby to collect.

Now I dont care much for the retry option, but what does annoy me is having to switch to the right car to do a burnout challenge. It takes forever and often I only use that specific car for that one specific race and never use it again. Instead of piling 70 some nearly identical cars in the game, they could have done with fewer but with more distinctive stats and characteristics. One extra little bubble of speed or toughness or boost is not going to make me change the car...

 

[DarienA]

How does that matter in my OP.

I don't particularly care whether it did or didn't actually.

 

[plagiarize]

First I would like to say I really like your demo, I like it so much that I play it weekly just to blow off some steam and I love the driving and crazy voodoo stuff you have created.

Your game goes on the PSN this week (I think) and I am not really tempted to get it for the same reason I haven't bought it on disk before, repeatable races. The game has been out long enough that let's get over the crap that you make me go back to the original spot to start it again.

I am not a hardcore player and do not desire to drive back to do it again. All I want is to do the same race over and over again and finish the game in my own time. You are trying so hard to make me want to buy it but unless I can have fun I don't care if you give me extra roads, extra cars or bikes because I am not having fun.

I have money for you, do you want it?

If this type of post is not allowed sorry and flame me hard fellow board members.

criterion did not make the game for people like you. they don't want your money. they have said this time and time again and they have proven this time and time again by releasing huge update after huge update and not putting in retry.

what i can't fathom in your case is how you can play the demo so much if this is an issue for you. the demo has one event. to do this event you have to drive to the start of it every time. yet you keep playing the demo.

so either you're repeatedly driving back to the start of the event or your doing some of the other things you can do in the game while not doing an event. the full game has much more of those, as well as a much larger play area and plenty of modes like stunt run or road rage with no defined end point that you can finish wherever you want essentially.

we can argue whether or not retry would make the game appeal to more people, but we can't argue the fact that criterion have steadfastly stood next to their stance on the matter, or that yet another thread complaining about the issue (as if every burnout thread that isn't about the issue doesn't turn into one about the issue already) isn't going to make them suddenly back down.

get over it and go pick up a racing game that lets you play the way you want. i'm sure there's plenty of good ones you haven't played yet like Grid or Pure. those ones are aimed at people like you. give them your time and money rather than wasting it trying to turn Burnout Paradise into something that isn't what the developers want it to be, even if that would be something universally praised as better.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Lost a race? There are a ton other events (including races that take you to the starting point of the race that you lost) to try out in the vecinity.

Get this game.

That's a bullshit excuse. The biggest problem with the game is the huge number of "Burning Route" events, where you waste your time getting a specific car, drive to the event point, fail and have to drive back. You can't do other events because your car is too shit, and you can't restart because Criterion hate gamers.

I liked the game till I got my B License. Then it becomes a complete chore.

 

[cedric69]

how can any one who hasn't played enough of the game to even encounter the issue with repeatable races ...have a problem with repeatable races??

it's not a problem untill you've completed enough of the events to be driving around for them

Huh... no? If you come from the Burnout series you can have a problem not having the retry option from the first race you drive.

I accept you saying that the game is good without it, but I really fail to understand how can it be so tough to see that others could be looking for something different in it.

 

[plagiarize]

That's a bullshit excuse. The biggest problem with the game is the huge number of "Burning Route" events, where you waste your time getting a specific car, drive to the event point, fail and have to drive back. You can't do other events because your car is too shit, and you can't restart because Criterion hate gamers.

I liked the game till I got my B License. Then it becomes a complete chore.

if the burning routes were a fraction as difficult as the burning laps of past burnout games i'd probably agree with you, but they are much much easier. they usually take me 1 to 3 tries to beat, and very quickly you learn about how much leeway you have for mistakes. plus, you are always rewarded with a new car as a result... and i'm pretty sure that you can clear your B license without doing a single one. you'll still unlock new cars as you go through events.

only someone who needs to 100% the game to feel like they got their money's worth, or has to focus on one event at a time is really going to find it a problem.

 

[TheGreatDave]

if the burning routes were a fraction as difficult as the burning laps of past burnout games i'd probably agree with you, but they are much much easier. they usually take me 1 to 3 tries to beat, and very quickly you learn about how much leeway you have for mistakes. plus, you are always rewarded with a new car as a result... and i'm pretty sure that you can clear your B license without doing a single one. you'll still unlock new cars as you go through events.

only someone who needs to 100% the game to feel like they got their money's worth is really going to find it a problem.

The problem is you spend so much time driving around a map, and so many of the events are stuff that you wouldn't want to do in your current car, or couldn't do. If the game would just automatically switch my car to the one I needed for a Burning Route and add a restart option (I don't care if I have loading times) I know I'd pick the game up again right now and play a lot of it.

 

[Xater]

I still can't believe there are people that defend the no retry option. There is no good reason for it. They just wanted the fucking no loading bullet point on the box and that's why they had to cut it. :lol

 

[ElNino]

Yup. Only burnout game I didn't buy.

And this is the only Burnout game that I did buy. I got tired of every other Burnout game I've played after a night or two, but this one has me still playing months later.

 

[StrikerObi]

Thanks for all that work, but I am only getting at my own enjoyment. As I would only do this single player I don't give a rats ass about stats or otherwise..sorry.

I think it's time to make it less hardcore for another audience as they already have the core people in their bank accounts.

I'm sorry, but what's the point of this thread? You make a thread to shit on a game that you don't like, and when anybody says something positive about the game you just say "nope, I still don't like it."

Clearly, you have already made up your mind on Burnout Paradise. You like it, but the no-retry is a big enough issue that you won't buy it. Did you just absolutely need to share this shocking revelation with the rest of the world? If so, there's already a thread for the game for you to do that in.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I'm sorry, but what's the point of this thread? You make a thread to shit on a game that you don't like, and when anybody says something positive about the game you just say "nope, I still don't like it."

Clearly, you have already made up your mind on Burnout Paradise. You like it, but the no-retry is a big enough issue that you won't buy it. Did you just absolutely need to share this shocking revelation with the rest of the world? If so, there's already a thread for the game for you to do that in.

then maybe you should merge the threads mister moderator.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Lost a race? There are a ton other events (including races that take you to the starting point of the race that you lost) to try out in the vecinity.

Good thing that works as a viable solution when you're going for your Elite and Burnout licenses!!

Not that it matters, because the races themselves aren't all that fun anyway. I've said it once and I'll say it again: Burnout Paradise is a great mess-around-in-the-city game, and a terrible racing game.

 

[plagiarize]

I still can't believe there are people that defend the no retry option. There is no good reason for it. They just wanted the fucking no loading bullet point on the box and that's why they had to cut it. :lol

you can't believe that people like different things to you? jeez, you must be a barrel of laughs. i'd explain why i like it to you, but i'm sure other people have already explained why they like it to you and you just couldn't see things from a point of view other than your own.

i get why people don't like it... but i do like it.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I still can't believe there are people that defend the no retry option. There is no good reason for it. They just wanted the fucking no loading bullet point on the box and that's why they had to cut it. :lol

No. Because that's not a reason either. You jump into any online game, and when a host picks a race, the car selection menu for you is loaded at the place where the host selected at the start of the map, even if you are at the other end of the map. No loading either.

 

[Returners]

Argh, I missed EPIC discussion.

As I've said it over and over and again, if you're not open to changes, then go back and play Revenge.

Obviously you care enough about BP, AND want to try it BUT hate no retry option. Frankly though, be more open minded and have a go at this excellent racer, just because you heard stuff about the game doesn't mean you will be bothered once you actually played it.

Its like the "Mojave" experiment Microsoft did with Vista. Try it man.

 

[Xater]

you can't believe that people like different things to you? jeez, you must be a barrel of laughs. i'd explain why i like it to you, but i'm sure other people have already explained why they like it to you and you just couldn't see things from a point of view other than your own.

i get why people don't like it... but i do like it.

Great that ou like it, it's still not a good reason to cut such a feature. If you have fun driving aimlessly around the city then fine but us the option for fucks sake.

 

[Xater]

No. Because that's not a reason either. You jump into any online game, and when a host picks a race, the car selection menu for you is loaded at the place where the host selected at the start of the map, even if you are at the other end of the map. No loading either.

I am pretty sure they said something about it on their podcast...

 

[StrikerObi]

I still can't believe there are people that defend the no retry option. There is no good reason for it. They just wanted the fucking no loading bullet point on the box and that's why they had to cut it. :lol

I don't think anybody would really "defend" it. If they added the option I'm sure it would be awesome. It's just that some people don't mind the no-retry and some people do. If they added the option I don't think anybody would complain (though knowing GAF I'm probably wrong...)

I played the game and had fun with it. The lack of a retry option is an issue but a minor one at best to me. To somebody else it could obviously be a much larger issue, so much so that they won't buy the game. It's just a cost/benefit analysis, or a pro/con list or whatever. The amount of fun I had with Burnout Paradise far outweighs the issues it has, so therefore for me it was a sound purchase. It's a totally different equation for everybody that plays it. If it's not for you then it just isn't.

It sucks that some people liked the game but not enough to buy it. "Thems the breaks." It really sucks that some people were so close to loving the game but this one issue ruined it for them. I couldn't even tell you how many times that's happened to me with a game. It sucks, something coming so close to perfection and stopping just short of it. Move on. Find a new game to play that you like more.

 

[plagiarize]

Good thing that works as a viable solution when you're going for your Elite and Burnout licenses!!

if you are going for your elite or burnout license you've put what, probably 20+ hours into the game at that point? even if you stop playing at that point, you're telling me you haven't got your $30 (or whatever) out of it?

that would naturally be ignoring the multiplayer.

i didn't refuse to buy God of War cause the last boss sucked. i didn't tell everyone else the game was crap because the last boss sucked. i spent hours trying to beat it to the point of frustration and walked away. it doesn't devalue all the awesome time i put into the game up to that point.

i haven't even finished my B license yet, but i've played the game for over 30 hours and i keep going back to it. that's because i don't focus on just doing one thing or another. i've done a lot of burning routes though and it's never once been a huge annoyance.

 

[Xater]

Hey I bought the game and the no retry made me so angry that I sold the game pretty fast. I know what I am talking about.

 

[The Faceless Master]

you can't believe that people like different things to you? jeez, you must be a barrel of laughs. i'd explain why i like it to you, but i'm sure other people have already explained why they like it to you and you just couldn't see things from a point of view other than your own.

i get why people don't like it... but i do like it.

irony!

 

[StrikerObi]

Hey I bought the game and the no retry made me so angry that I sold the game pretty fast. I know what I am talking about.

I think you're responding to my post, but I never meant to imply that you didn't know what you were talking about. It's just what I said. It sucks that the game had a flaw some buyers thought was crippling. You went through the cost/benefit analysis, thought it would be a good purchase, and it turns out the no-retry was a bigger con than you initially thought it would be, so you sold the game off. That's that. It's a shame the game didn't live up to your expectations, it really does.

 

[h3ro]

Didn't ElyrionX just have this thread?

 

[Xater]

I think you're responding to my post, but I never meant to imply that you didn't know what you were talking about. It's just what I said. It sucks that the game had a flaw some buyers thought was crippling. You went through the cost/benefit analysis, thought it would be a good purchase, and it turns out the no-retry was a bigger con than you initially thought it would be, so you sold the game off. That's that. It's a shame the game didn't live up to your expectations, it really does.

Yes I was should have been quoting. It really was a shame because I have been a fan of the series since the first game. If they do this again for the next game I will not be a returning customer.

 

[Volcynika]

Didn't ElyrionX just have this thread?

Pretty much! I don't mind the lack of retry, since it helps me notice shortcuts, billboards, and super jumps that I need to up my completion percent. Besides, driving around just for fun is exciting!

 

[Aladuf]

Not buying this game because of a lack of a retry option is crazy. First off, the races in this game are really not that hard, I've beaten the game twice and I can literally count on two hands how many times I've lost a race in the SP portion of the game. And the fact that there's 120 events in the game, it kinda helps if you do lose a race so pretty much wherever you wind up after losing the race you can just find the next intersection and start up another race or different event.

As I've said it over and over and again, if you're not open to changes, then go back and play Revenge.

After playing so much Paradise lately I decided to give Revenge a try last week... it was so shitty compared to Paradise (imo), I had to sell it right away.

 

[Shig]

funny that the Devs can you all the "freedom" in this massive world but not the freedom to retry.

They accidentally the whole retry button.

 

[plagiarize]

Great that ou like it, it's still not a good reason to cut such a feature. If you have fun driving aimlessly around the city then fine but us the option for fucks sake.

alright. one last time. what criterion wanted to do was force people to play the game differently. what they wanted to do was force people to learn the paradise. you can't force people to do those things if you leave in a retry option.

for lots of people it's a revelation when they get the full game and start playing it the way that criterion pushed us into. those that can't break old habits and need to do one event over and over until they beat it will never enjoy it, but thanks to criterion forcing me to play the game in a way i never would have without certain design choices, i've had more fun with the game as a result.

i suppose you don't understand why horror games tend to have limited save systems rather than save wherever you want. if you do understand that, this is the same kind of thing. if you give people such an option people will use it even if it makes the game less fun for them to do so. i know i would have... just as i'll quicksave a lot in a horror game if it lets me even though it robs the game of the tension it would otherwise reach.

knowing that if i screw up an event, i have to drive all the way should i want to try it over gives each race more tension than it would have were the option there to start over (even though i could choose not to use it). that makes the game more edge of your seat thrilling for me, and those burning routes where i make it with not even a second to spare all the more satisfying.

it is Criterion's right to force such a thing on gamers. you are welcome to choose not buy the game as a result.

but complaining about it now, some nine months later, when Criterion have steadfastly stuck by their position and repeatedly insisted that they're not going to add a retry option is pointless.