Monocle
Member
Yes but you can't say that when you're pandering to religious people.
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Democrat Debate 7 [CNN] But...the electorate refused to change
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Clearly the religious are there to be pandered to so who can blame her
Monocle
Member
This is a country where people trust you less than they trust rapists if you admit to being an atheist. I don't blame any politician for flat out lying to anyone who's that idiotic.
Ohoho dear, so even the faithless aren't safe from persecution.
shinra-bansho
Member
In 8 years Vice President Kaine will run and probably lose given he'll be running for the 5th straight Democratic Presidential term.
ultratruman
Banned
I think you mean Chelsea Clinton
Didn't Obama come out of nowhere with his speech at the 2004 convention? From relative unknown to possible candidate thanks to his speech?
8 years is a long time. Many leaders can emerge.
Besides that she is also very divisive, anti-Obama when it comes to terrorists, terrorism, and her stances on Muslims.
Listen to her talk about the ME and Muslims in general and you'd think you are listening to a Republican on Fox News.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Bernie to the Supreme Court?? He is not even a lawyer. What are you on?
People saying bernie and obama to Supreme Court court dont really understand who gets made justice. You need to be a strong legal mind with tons of experience in law.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
To be fair at least with Obama he does have a law background even if it wasn't his ultimate career.
DragonSworne
Banned
You don't need that to become a justice. There is no requirement to be a lawyer or have experience in law.
Honestly, I would rather have someone who knows nothing about the law but has a good conscience and good common sense.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
None officially. But no way in hell is it happening today. The last one who didn't attend law school was in the 1940s. He had still passed the bar though self-study however.
That would make for a terrible justice if they had only those qualities alone. They need intimate knowledge of the law, this isn't a game position. Law can be incredibly labyrinthine and we don't need someone setting legal precedents the whole country must follow when they don't know the first damned thing about it.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Claimed they believed.
Plenty have not. But it's rule number 1 in politics, ahead of shaking hands and kissing babies.
Untill its not. And then you'll see the flood breaking through the break wall.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Because they have to. The US isn't going to elect an Atheist president any time soon.
You see it with Trump for example, whose pretty clearly an Atheist or at least Agnostic, trying to pretend he's religious and has always been.
Psychoward
Banned
Okay but not many people know random democrats either. The next race could be in 8 years, plenty of time to get experience/hype, the dems are a lot better off than the GOP right now I'd say.
O Malley is recognizable as he is in part due to the fact that he did run
Primethius
Banned
Always fascinates me when people call those who are religious as believing in fairly tales. I mean, I'm an athiest as well but man, that's such a pathetic attitude to have.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Yep. Some people don't get it though.
Plasticine
Member
Every decision Bernie writes would involve income inequality.
Every comment from HillaryGals involves mocking his references to income inequality.
Huh? Turnout was well above 2008. So much so that the Maine Democratic Party tweeted they were shocked by "extraordinary turnout".
I guess it sorta sounded a little contentious during that moment or something, but it's probably being blown up because the Democratic Nomination process is essentially over and we already know the winner and so all this is just formalities and we need something to talk about that is even slightly spicy ;P
Byakuya769
Member
Indeed. I think there's a disconnect between how people react to atheists/agnostics in practice and how they respond to what they envision atheist/agnostics to be--the latter being the type who makes it a point to say "Sky wizard" and fairy tales.
The broad reaction to Sanders' likely atheism has been a collective shrug. I think, especially in the Democratic Party, that must people don't really care as long as they don't feel like you're looking down on them.
The Artisan
Member
I said I'm not someone deep into politics. And I largely have not been paying attention but when the TV was on the debate last night, that was the vibe, yes, the fucking vibe, I was getting from her. This "Wizard Hitler" shit is you twisting around what I'm saying and I was only saying one thing. I'm gonna bother to look into this further.
I mean, I honestly believe that religion is a mass delusion, but pissing on them for that is just wrong. If it gives people motivation to keep doing what they do, why should anyone judge.
Though I cringe at the fact that religion is so entrenched in politics. If an Atheist were to run, people would vote against them thinking that it's their religious duty to do so.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
A pathetic attitude? You're aware of other atheists? Heard them speak, listened to their music, read their books, etc? Calling out theism as 'fairly tales' is prevalent in atheist thinking, if not ubiquitous. It's not necessarily a bad thing to be antagonistically critical of theists in the appropriate context (e.g. religion in politics). Discrediting theism is inherent to atheism, if not essential.
daemissary
Member
Because some people will try and frame literally anything as sexism.
No. It's not. Just live your life, it won't change reality and religion is pretty damn important to some people.
The Artisan
Member
I used to be really religious and unless a person is behaving dogmatically or their style of living is directly affecting you, I don't think it is fair to treat or judge them this way.
gutter_trash
Banned
Bernie has bad optics when he waves around his hands.
I understand that comes from his passion but often at time he takes too much physical space in his hands invade the other person's space making him look like want to out-Alpha the other
even on Bill Maher's show, he nearly pokes people's faces out when sitting on the panel because his hands are allover the place
I understand that comes from his passion but often at time he takes too much physical space in his hands invade the other person's space making him look like want to out-Alpha the other
even on Bill Maher's show, he nearly pokes people's faces out when sitting on the panel because his hands are allover the place
Depends. Religion has very real negative impact in many elements of society, and so to some being antagonistic toward its influence can net a positive result.
The question is whether it is the best strategy for this, who knows. But certainly religion deserves no sacred position, and if you're making claims about the Universe, then prepare to get aggressively called out on it. Otherwise, the faithful need to keep it to themselves and don't dare try to pollute the rest of the world with those beliefs (especially in pushing social norms via the lens of religious morality, or insertion into politics).
Still think this is too harsh re: religion, even though generally I agree with your ideas.
I like Bernie but I always felt "off" about him. Tonight cemented it. He is so condescending. It was really off putting. He really lacks the temperament and patience to be President. As usual, he gains points on passion but his one-issue trumpeting certainly wouldn't get him my vote in the primary.
To be clear, I'm an atheist. I agree, to an extent. Someone like Cruz thinking religion should be law or those that are pro life due to religion etc. are obviously wrong. But religious people are perfectly capable of calling out other religious people for flawed beliefs based on religion.
But as bad as religion has been throughout history, it has had very real positive impact in many aspects of society even if it has stifled a lot of things.
ersocaster
Member
No, it's not.
I stopped calling myself an atheist because of people like you. I do not believe in a God either, but it's not my mission to rid the world of their belief system. It's no one's.
Belief gives people motivation and hope. Sometimes it gives people a reason to live. How can you strip someone of that?
It does no good to anyone to constantly shit on the beliefs of others.
if not for hilary's "superdelegate" count, it WOULD be a close race.
even split those and bernie would be ~200 delegates behind, instead of 600, but alas.
between trump and bernie that one would be hard, 50/50 either way, i like bernie but leary of what he wants to do. not crazy for trump but...
between trump and hillary..i'd vote for trump because, i dislike hillary more than i dislike trump.
if trump not there and hillary there, my vote goes to the best candidate not named hillary clinton.
even split those and bernie would be ~200 delegates behind, instead of 600, but alas.
between trump and bernie that one would be hard, 50/50 either way, i like bernie but leary of what he wants to do. not crazy for trump but...
between trump and hillary..i'd vote for trump because, i dislike hillary more than i dislike trump.
if trump not there and hillary there, my vote goes to the best candidate not named hillary clinton.
Gold_Loot
Member
Good point for sure. As a Christian ( although a little twisted myself ) I can't stand anyone with a holier than thou attitude, or people that pat themselves on their backs because they thought they "preached" something to somebody that had zero interest in hearing anything from the get go.
"Above all, my commandment to you is to love one another" ... Something alot of religious people tend to forget sadly.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
That's not what I said. I don't think it's right to be antagonistic with a theist when there's no good reason to, but atheism is not a position to take when you're not even comfortable with confronting the cause of that position.
Wrong. This is similar to theists who think it's their calling to tell other theists how wrong they are or atheists that they are morally delinquent. Believe what you want.... But being an asshole about it is pure choice and common to both theists and atheists
You'd vote for Trump over Hillary because....you dislike Hillary more?
Ok, thats valid. On what stances do you stand by with Trump? What are some of the positions you agree with him? Do you feel he will help make America "great again"? If so, what do you believe that will entail and how will he do it better than Hillary?
If someone brings up the subject to me directly and asks my opinion of it, I'll tell them why I don't have a single iota of belief in religion. I'm comfortable with that.
But, let me put it this way, if you ran into a 6 year old kid with an imaginary friend, would you emphatically tell them that their imaginary friend isn't real and that they need to grow up? No, that'd be needlessly cruel and a douche move.
Primethius
Banned
I don't necessarily disagree but the cause of that position doesn't always require you to be antagonistic towards thiests, nor even participate in a debate or discussion with them unless they prompt it.
I've done plenty of debates as an athiest with people who are religious when they invite me to. I don't recall ever having to play the fairy tale card.
Perhaps it's because I was religious at one point and realize how crazy that sounds when played against you. Perhaps not.
gamechanger87
Member
Correct. Religion was created in the first place to give people a reason to hope and believe while their lives were miserable. That is still correct today.
IMO, religion and government should not co-attempt to be tied together as much as certain candidates intend. A true believer should not be attempting to use government as a cudgel to get others to follow their belief system. It's actually fascinating to see Cruz rail against government and then attempt to use the government to change things based on his belief system.
Anyway, religion in itself has done a lot of good. Many of the things pushed by religions make society better as a whole. Religion in general pushes for stable families, raise your children correctly, good education for all, taking care of the needy/sick and treat others the way you would want to be treated. Aren't those what everyone is striving for?
The only issue is that at times the message can get muddled. Gay marriage is opposed because its an affront to God's definition of marriage as a man and a woman. Churches have the right to not perform gay marriages and they will continue to have that ability. However, why should they have the right to say that the state can't call this a marriage? Its rather odd. Also, due to the whole sperm and egg thing these couples can't have children so they are apt to adopt and raise children who would be worse off in their current situation. Isn't that the chuch's ultimate goal?
/rant
It's just insulting rhetoric. People, for better or for worse, use religion as a morality compass, social get togethers, weekly activities, discipline, etc. What type of intelligent discourse are you looking to have when you chalk all that up to believing in fairy tales right to their face?
I'm like you.... Have religious family members. And I've been on the side of being insulted because I didn't believe. So hearing people that don't believe be just as insulting strikes the same chord and makes me not want to be theist or atheist some how.
Maybe dontgiveashit-eist
kame-sennin
Member
This is a strange reaction.
It's quite a bit more than that one racist quote. The Clintons - and Hillary was an active advocate for the administration, impressively changing the nature of what a First Lady can do - have a horrible record when it comes to the treatment of the black community:
Also, you missed the racial significance of that quote:
You can't wriggle out of using racist dog whistles that dehumanize African American children by saying 'oops, my bad'. The Clintons, while appealing to African Americans, also knew their success was dependent on bringing back working class whites, and they were willing to stoke the fires of racial resentment to do it. These actions had real consequences. Not just in terms of policy, but in setting the tone for how law enforcement and criminal justice is handled in America.
Contrary to the belief that Clinton "devoted her entire adult life to fighting for equality for African Americans", the Clinton era was actually a terrible time for African Americans:
And beyond criminal justice initiatives, Hillary lobbied for other policies that disproportionately impacted African Americans:
These policies, which were sold with racist dog whistles, fundamentally changed the social safety net:
The Clinton administration didn't just get "tough on crime", they made it much harder for felons to pull themselves out of poverty and improve their lives.
http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/
We're not talking about a couple of misstatements here. We're talking about an epidemic of human misery on a massive scale - the decimation of an entire community. As a person of color, I find it extremely troubling that neither Bill or Hillary have been called to account for what they did during those eight years. As I said before, this isn't an issue of, 'well who are you going to vote for?' It's about being clear on what the record actually is.
superdeluxe
Member
Almost a 200 delegate lead is close? Likely to be 300 by the 15th.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Just saw the news, it seems that Bernie killed his campaign.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Again, context. I'm not saying it's right to be confrontational when it's not appropriate, but we're in an increasingly complex society that is still basing it's course on a belief system that is increasingly at odds with that society's development.
Life requires us to be assholes sometimes. It sucks, I hate confrontation too.
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