A bit? I was watching Gabe last night. Looked so slow and boring compared to his movement in D1.
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Destiny 2 Beta |OT| Garry's Mod
- Thread starter Twilight Gap
- Start date
A bit? I was watching Gabe last night. Looked so slow and boring compared to his movement in D1.
So I finally got to play. Here are my impressions.
PvE: The first mission was amazing. I hope all of them are this good. Good set pieces, varied. Beautiful. Use of the NPC's was good, like hiding behind Zavala's shield. Was surprised to see the tower wave fight being matchmade.
The strike was also very good. Varied, has a journey feel to it. Loved descending constantly. The boss fight was well designed. Not sold on the two weapon system in PvE tho. More on that later.
PvP: VASTLY VASTLY VASTLY improved. Oh my god I might actually play it this time around. No more ability spam. No more bullshit spawning with one hit kill weapons. The 4 v 4 helps make the fights more about teamwork and map control. I'm a former Halo player and this felt like a return to form. Control played well. I need to look at the scoring system a little more. I felt like one match we had control over 2 points more, but they were beating us. Looks like that hasn't changed since D1. Countdown was incredible. I love it but I would decrease the revive lock out time.
RE: The cooldown timers. I like them significantly lower but would not be surprised if bungie tweaks them to go up. An average player should be able to get a super once a match. If you're really on fire you MAY be able to get 2. With good orb management. The melee and grenade cooldowns should be upped a tiny bit too. But I like that its not a near constant uptime like in D1. The super timer specifically rewards good orb management which for most activities in D1 was an after thought.
Gunplay: I think people complaining about gunplay are messed in the head. It feels fine. Great even. Honestly, it's clear to me that most of the people complaining about gunplay are so used to their perfectly rolled, best in slot, god guns from Destiny 1 they forget how some of the trash legendaries handled. In PvE I used a double handcannon load out and it felt great. I'd love the have a scout in there but the scout they gave me was underwhelming (full auto, gross)
In PvP I ran with either auto rifle - handcannon or handcannon - pulse. Played fine. The pulse specifically was really good. The Handcannon, while not the beast it once was during the handcannnon meta, felt better than it does in D1 now. And that has a lot to do with hipfire seemingly being more viable.
The two primary system: I love this for PvP. I am not sold on it for PvE. I'm assuming matching elements is gonna be a big thing but it does not seem the matter for the boss. Even when strike boss switched elements. Using the 2 primaries on the boss felt like a slog. Maybe it was because I equated it to using primaries on bosses in D1. Maybe it was the lack of heavy ammo (which they will amend for release, thankfully)
The regular PvE encounters are fine. Hell I think its better with 2 primaries. Especially for the shielded enemies. But the bosses with only primaries and limited Heavy ammo was rough.
PvE: The first mission was amazing. I hope all of them are this good. Good set pieces, varied. Beautiful. Use of the NPC's was good, like hiding behind Zavala's shield. Was surprised to see the tower wave fight being matchmade.
The strike was also very good. Varied, has a journey feel to it. Loved descending constantly. The boss fight was well designed. Not sold on the two weapon system in PvE tho. More on that later.
PvP: VASTLY VASTLY VASTLY improved. Oh my god I might actually play it this time around. No more ability spam. No more bullshit spawning with one hit kill weapons. The 4 v 4 helps make the fights more about teamwork and map control. I'm a former Halo player and this felt like a return to form. Control played well. I need to look at the scoring system a little more. I felt like one match we had control over 2 points more, but they were beating us. Looks like that hasn't changed since D1. Countdown was incredible. I love it but I would decrease the revive lock out time.
RE: The cooldown timers. I like them significantly lower but would not be surprised if bungie tweaks them to go up. An average player should be able to get a super once a match. If you're really on fire you MAY be able to get 2. With good orb management. The melee and grenade cooldowns should be upped a tiny bit too. But I like that its not a near constant uptime like in D1. The super timer specifically rewards good orb management which for most activities in D1 was an after thought.
Gunplay: I think people complaining about gunplay are messed in the head. It feels fine. Great even. Honestly, it's clear to me that most of the people complaining about gunplay are so used to their perfectly rolled, best in slot, god guns from Destiny 1 they forget how some of the trash legendaries handled. In PvE I used a double handcannon load out and it felt great. I'd love the have a scout in there but the scout they gave me was underwhelming (full auto, gross)
In PvP I ran with either auto rifle - handcannon or handcannon - pulse. Played fine. The pulse specifically was really good. The Handcannon, while not the beast it once was during the handcannnon meta, felt better than it does in D1 now. And that has a lot to do with hipfire seemingly being more viable.
The two primary system: I love this for PvP. I am not sold on it for PvE. I'm assuming matching elements is gonna be a big thing but it does not seem the matter for the boss. Even when strike boss switched elements. Using the 2 primaries on the boss felt like a slog. Maybe it was because I equated it to using primaries on bosses in D1. Maybe it was the lack of heavy ammo (which they will amend for release, thankfully)
The regular PvE encounters are fine. Hell I think its better with 2 primaries. Especially for the shielded enemies. But the bosses with only primaries and limited Heavy ammo was rough.
I do see your point and sort of agree but this way someone could actually go through a game and at the end have like 23 opps defeated yet every one was an assist and you really dont know, if that makes sense lol
its like a participation medal lol
I still have concerns about some of the changes. But overall i'm enjoying the beta.
I am very optimistic for the full release.
SyenceLabb
Member
Check the first post of this thread near the bottom. You'll see the Xbox Club graphic linked to the page to request an invite.
Imagine having 4 man fire team for PvE and PvP, you can switch between both without leaving anyone out. Then combine with another 4 man team for an 8 man raid and not leave anyone out again.
Yeah, I get ya. Suppose they could replace the efficiency stat with something simple like "Kill Count Number/Assist Count Number" or just add it to the leaderboard too.
Herp Derpington
Member
I don't know I can only speak for myself. I don't notice any difference in aiming and movement. Feels exactly the same and not at all like the old Halo games. Like I said some aspects like Titan skating have been nerfed somewhat but you can almost get there with the right armor setup. Besides this is the beta. I imagine other armors in the main game might rectify this some.
Yeah exactly and who wants one of those? i just want to know if i was a badass or not lol.
I do like that they're trying to put more emphasis towards team play but it is nice to know exactly how you did on a personal note.
Pandora012
Member
It hasn't turned me off as I'll be playing with friends, so that allows me to ignore many of the issues I'm currently seeing. That said I may not be doing pvp much as like you said 4v4 is a huge turn off. Added with the fact that they are gimping super recharge rate, which makes it just an average fps to me. The supers and abilities were what made D1 so much fun for me. Though, they could of course increase the rate, but that 4v4 is still a glaring issue for me. So far it hasn't been casual fun.
Giftofgab24
Member
I'm enjoying the warlock. Having the ability to buff the teams offense or heal the team is definitely a big change.
Fusion rifles and Linear fusion rifles seem pretty badass too but havent had a chance to try any yet myself, tried both the grenade launcher and sniper and on multiple occasions with both i hit people with 3 shots/rounds and they still werent dead :S
Herp Derpington
Member
I've been killed shotties maybe 5 times. Fusions have been far more effective so far. They're definitely fun to use.
The fusion rifle is way better - much much more range
agree. grenade launcher sucks and havent tried rockets or fusion rifles
Gears of War solved this issue somewhat ages ago and yet so few games use it. You get points based on the damage you do, so if you did 90% of the damage and someone else takes the kill with he final shot then that person gets the kill but they get fuckall amount of points. You on the other hand will get most of the point. Which means you'll come out on top and be MvP even if there are people stealing your kills.
Siege does something similar but it doesn't distribute points based on damage done and awards a flat amount to everyone involved in shooting instead of distributing a fixed amount among people involved based on who does how much damage.
Gally or shotgun.....hmmmmm
Yeah, I think that'd be the best solution. Instead of rewarding everyone the same or the guy who sits back and lets you do all the work them most, reward the person who does the most damage and give anyone else who helps the assist.
Far less frustrating and much fairer allround.
JohnOfMars
Banned
TheAquaticApe
Member
Credit to Gutz. Should have included that.
igordennis
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP-sUZSy8Pc
Too far? do they actually know they're taking the fun out of the game and this symbolises that?
Too far? do they actually know they're taking the fun out of the game and this symbolises that?
You seem like you play current and competitive Destiny and get what needed to be fixed in D2.
I would venture a guess that people who are complaining either don't play Destiny or quit prior to the current meta. Currently, you can lead virtually all engagements with a grenade. If I play on my Nightstalker with a 1/5/5 build and Frostees, I get my nade and smoke every 15 seconds...that is just broken.
I do agree with the sentiment going around that if they are going to keep the cooldowns longer, the abilities themselves should do more damage.
In Destiny 1, 4v4 pvp is fantastic as it gives more weight to individual players and greater subclass viability. I know most people don't play D1 sweats, but in comp matches, you can only have one subclass per team. 4v4 gives roaming supers viability and only shutdown supers. I also agree that strikes and patrol should be 4 players as well, or else that one person gets left out.
God seriously how could they think such a design decision would be ok. They better fix this or I'm cancelling my preorder! Monsters.
It depends on what you mean. For a lot of people, "fun" means melting enemies in a heartbeat. If you've ever said "power Fantasy" or something like that, you may not enjoy the beta's PvE. Whether because of the design or because of the quality of the gear we are using, enemies take longer to kill. I for one don't mind, but then again I don't care much about PvE anyways.
I think the core issue is Bungie has never intended their PvE encounters to feel trivial, while many players only find fun in trivializing encounters. Possibly the biggest evidence was the mod 2015 shotgun buff in PvE. It made any non-boss enemy a complete and total joke if you rushed them with a shotgun. The whole normal enemy vs major/ultra distinction stopped being meaningful. Enemies actually maybe sometimes being a threat? Lol no. Found Verdict / Swordbreak them to death in a second. Shotguns literally killed enemies quicker than machine guns or rocket launchers. "Ocean cmon that's hyperbole". No:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NycdfmeVJDI
Some people loved it. I thought it was silly but as I said, I don't play enough PvE to care much either way. But oh boy did people get upset when shotguns were brought down. Our nice resident DGAF mod Gheleon (true hero, managing DGAF when it was one, if not the most active communities in all of GAF) even quit the game over the shotgun nerf. The way I see it, Bungie felt they were doing way too much damage for a special weapon, and making Heavy Ammo basically not worth using except it was Gjallarhorn against a boss. Solution? Swords. They filled that same "high power at close range" slot, but with a Heavy Weapon instead of an always-available Special. Queue the outrage.
I don't know how many of you guys played Destiny at launch, but the Spider Tank midway through Devil's Lair (Sepiks Strike) was a real challenge. That thing could wreak havoc on a team, dealing a ton of damage and having a big health pool. You had to manage cover carefully, because enemies would continue spawning around you. It was a blast! Until Ice Breaker. You'd just camp and snipe. But wait! We can still make it even more trivial! Black Hammer: camp and snipe, but this time with literally zero downtime, just shoot it until it dies from a safe distance. This kind of "quickly destroy an enemy designed to be somewhat of a threat in a heartbeat" is what many people find fun, or fantasy or whatever.
As far as we can tell, and barring major changes in weapon balance and ammo economy, there's less of that in Destiny 2. It feels more like Destiny did in the first few weeks of Vanilla. When the Cerberus Vae Land Tank was a challenging threat you dealt with using heavy vehicles, dodging and firing for a good while, then popping out to shoot rockets or supers when you had them (before it became lol lol Gjally/Hammer it).
Whether this is good or bad will totally depend on where you find enjoyment in the game.
Agreed.
Look at most non raid content. You can turn off your brain and steamroll 90% of the pve content in D1.
Pandora012
Member
Great post.
Being able to destroy a raid boss in one cycle always felt wrong to me. This is end game content. You shouldn't be able to breeze through it. It can feel good, sure, but I preferred the trauma and adrenaline of early vault of glass raids, where you made it through by the skin of your teeth, and only by using proper team coordination and skill. The feeling of self satisfaction was much greater.
Surely you mean when you're underleveled, correct? Those that spent 12 hours on Crota HM are thinking "WHAT??? kljhfluhfl;iufliuyf,lidclyiudl" about now.
I have no prob one-cycling a raid boss when the team is leveled up and geared up.
Twilight Gap
Member
So once I realized that the armor had mods, I jacked up my resilience and I stopped losing fights to coin toss Pulse Rifle recoil. So I was able to play at least 40 games of Control yesterday
Played a Dawnblade with Nightshade primary and Minuet secondary - the meta weapons right now as far as I'm concerned.
It's very clear that Bungie wants the Crucible to be slower and more methodical. Those moments where you run around slaying people and chaining supers are a thing of the past and only happen once towards the end of the match. For the majority of the game, you are hugging corners, aiming down lanes with your Pulse Rifle and running away from fights to assist your teammates somewhere else. I found myself staying alive for a minute or more throwing down healing pools and hunkering down behind barriers to inch my way towards a control point. And if a teammate died, I'd evade out of there to regroup with them.
Pushing without your team was a death sentence 99% of the time - even when you were in your super. You can't play as a lone wolf in Destiny 2 at all. 1v1s don't exist. Destiny 2 is about staying alive first and getting kills second.
Expect the level design in this game to be very flat and very simple - a far cry from Destiny 1 maps which were vertical like Blind Watch, cluttered like Twilight Gap, or maze like akin to Sector 618. Bungie is very clearly looking at competitive shooters like Counter Strike and Overwatch for inspiration, perhaps in an attempt to win over some of those players.
As a former Halo player, the game reminds me of high level Halo Reach, from the emphasis on abilities and teamshooting to the reticle bloom. Power Ammo is effectively a power weapon spawn and it lets everyone in the game know that only two people will have it up at any given point. This means the rest of the game, you know you're going to be fighting primaries and are able to move around and position yourself without getting Blink Shotgunned from the whole team (it still happens though). I can't wait to see all the bad kids who ran Bladedancer meta from the first game losing sweats.
The spawns system in Control as far as I know is still tied to the capture zone. But on Endless Vale, all 3 zones seem to have spawns tied to them, unlike Destiny 1 where B didn't have its own spawns. This is a good change that makes B more important.
I don't agree that Control is worse. It's smarter and more strategic, and 4v4 is a way better player count to keep track of.
So far, the things I dislike the most about the game are the pointless cooldowns, the design of the Supers and the balance of the weapons. There's really no reason to use a Hand Cannon or Scout Rifle over a Pulse Rifle. I don't like that everything has basically the same kill time and only changes efficiency based on your range. HCs are way harder to use than everything else, and the RoF is too slow to contest with the other 3 primaries. Couple that with the fact that auto aim drop off is way more pronounced in this game, and it's just a rock-paper-scissors during every right. The dual primary system works well in PvP, but it's extremely repetitive. I don't think there is enough depth in the gunplay to justify firing Pulse Rifles all day. As for the cooldowns, things like waiting a second after clambering or unscoping and waiting for your radar to come back are just annoying delays that slow down your ability to react. That shit needs to go.
Also, the Daybreak Super is incredibly underwhelming. So many times I've popped it and watched people just sidestep the slash. Or you're right next to somebody expecting to hit them like you do with a Sword, but you just do a really lame swing and it completely misses them. And by the time you get to people, it's already run out. Meanwhile, the Strikter Smash and Arcstrider Staff last much longer and don't consume energy to move around as far as I know. I've always thought it was stupid that a Warlock needs to use a flaming sword anyway, so I wish they would scrap it and design something cooler. It's the only super in the game right now that feels like it doesn't belong.
And it goes without saying that beyond their supers, the Hunters have terrible neutral game right now compared to the Titans and Warlocks. Dodging is an incredibly useful asset in the PvP this time around, but Warlocks can do it way more than a Hunter and Titans still have faster lateral movement. The Hunter's only asset right now is that they can strafe faster, whereas the Titan just tanks bullets.
I don't think this game is going to take off in the competitive scene because it lacks dedicated servers and 60 FPS. But if Bungie set out to make a game that wasn't a mindless cluster fuck like the first, well they succeeded. Whether you like it or not depends on what you liked the first game for.
Played a Dawnblade with Nightshade primary and Minuet secondary - the meta weapons right now as far as I'm concerned.
It's very clear that Bungie wants the Crucible to be slower and more methodical. Those moments where you run around slaying people and chaining supers are a thing of the past and only happen once towards the end of the match. For the majority of the game, you are hugging corners, aiming down lanes with your Pulse Rifle and running away from fights to assist your teammates somewhere else. I found myself staying alive for a minute or more throwing down healing pools and hunkering down behind barriers to inch my way towards a control point. And if a teammate died, I'd evade out of there to regroup with them.
Pushing without your team was a death sentence 99% of the time - even when you were in your super. You can't play as a lone wolf in Destiny 2 at all. 1v1s don't exist. Destiny 2 is about staying alive first and getting kills second.
Expect the level design in this game to be very flat and very simple - a far cry from Destiny 1 maps which were vertical like Blind Watch, cluttered like Twilight Gap, or maze like akin to Sector 618. Bungie is very clearly looking at competitive shooters like Counter Strike and Overwatch for inspiration, perhaps in an attempt to win over some of those players.
As a former Halo player, the game reminds me of high level Halo Reach, from the emphasis on abilities and teamshooting to the reticle bloom. Power Ammo is effectively a power weapon spawn and it lets everyone in the game know that only two people will have it up at any given point. This means the rest of the game, you know you're going to be fighting primaries and are able to move around and position yourself without getting Blink Shotgunned from the whole team (it still happens though). I can't wait to see all the bad kids who ran Bladedancer meta from the first game losing sweats.
The spawns system in Control as far as I know is still tied to the capture zone. But on Endless Vale, all 3 zones seem to have spawns tied to them, unlike Destiny 1 where B didn't have its own spawns. This is a good change that makes B more important.
I don't agree that Control is worse. It's smarter and more strategic, and 4v4 is a way better player count to keep track of.
So far, the things I dislike the most about the game are the pointless cooldowns, the design of the Supers and the balance of the weapons. There's really no reason to use a Hand Cannon or Scout Rifle over a Pulse Rifle. I don't like that everything has basically the same kill time and only changes efficiency based on your range. HCs are way harder to use than everything else, and the RoF is too slow to contest with the other 3 primaries. Couple that with the fact that auto aim drop off is way more pronounced in this game, and it's just a rock-paper-scissors during every right. The dual primary system works well in PvP, but it's extremely repetitive. I don't think there is enough depth in the gunplay to justify firing Pulse Rifles all day. As for the cooldowns, things like waiting a second after clambering or unscoping and waiting for your radar to come back are just annoying delays that slow down your ability to react. That shit needs to go.
Also, the Daybreak Super is incredibly underwhelming. So many times I've popped it and watched people just sidestep the slash. Or you're right next to somebody expecting to hit them like you do with a Sword, but you just do a really lame swing and it completely misses them. And by the time you get to people, it's already run out. Meanwhile, the Strikter Smash and Arcstrider Staff last much longer and don't consume energy to move around as far as I know. I've always thought it was stupid that a Warlock needs to use a flaming sword anyway, so I wish they would scrap it and design something cooler. It's the only super in the game right now that feels like it doesn't belong.
And it goes without saying that beyond their supers, the Hunters have terrible neutral game right now compared to the Titans and Warlocks. Dodging is an incredibly useful asset in the PvP this time around, but Warlocks can do it way more than a Hunter and Titans still have faster lateral movement. The Hunter's only asset right now is that they can strafe faster, whereas the Titan just tanks bullets.
I don't think this game is going to take off in the competitive scene because it lacks dedicated servers and 60 FPS. But if Bungie set out to make a game that wasn't a mindless cluster fuck like the first, well they succeeded. Whether you like it or not depends on what you liked the first game for.
Strangelove77
Member
The more I think about it the more I feel like I won't be able to overlook the 2 primary slot/sniper and shotgun are now heavy thing and the crazy slow cooldown of abilities.
I only played pvp for exclusive gear. It's not the main reason I liked the first game.
I feel that it's taking away why I preferred Destiny over every other FPS.
I only played pvp for exclusive gear. It's not the main reason I liked the first game.
I feel that it's taking away why I preferred Destiny over every other FPS.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Thanks for articulating your thoughts on all of this.
I knew you would come a round a little.
This is what constitutes being messed in the head, I guess.
The audio and visual feedback is the weakest in any Bungie game I've played.
Pandora012
Member
I think this is my main issue with the beta pvp. It feels like it's catering to a certain type of player. Which doesn't seem casual friendly. Sure I don't mine have to be methodical and playing as a team. But usually whenever I boot up D1 or CoD I like the fast pace. I love being able to go solo, and not have to have a team mate at my back so I can actually get a kill. I guess what annoys me most is that they seem to have taken the option away. In D1 if I wanted to play fast and loose I could. If I wanted to be strategic and slow there were modes for that.
So this is "working as intended" aka "Get used to the new normal" which was my early point. Good post dude.