Haint
Member
I don't know what the end goal is with the mode, but right now I think it seems to require a clan or single use token to run? Both of which are completely unnecessary.
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Destiny 2 once again doesn't have matchmaking for non-Raid content
- Thread starter Alo0oy
- Start date
I don't know what the end goal is with the mode, but right now I think it seems to require a clan or single use token to run? Both of which are completely unnecessary.
No u can matchmake solo starting Sept 26 once it's out of beta. No ticket or token required.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1435014
RecRoulette
Member
Yet The Taken King exists...
The beta version is cumbersome and irritating but we'll see how it performs out of beta.
Papo Swing
Member
I can't believe this issue keeps popping up and we are at page 6.
How antisocial do you have to be to come to GAF to complain about this issue yet you cannot make a 10 second post asking for a group or help.
All LFG request are as follows: LFG or LFM. You request a group or more people. You explain the request with your gamertag, level, what you want or need. You can even say something like 'No Mic can hear for instruction' if you so desire it.
It will take anyone about 1-5 minutes to get a team or multiple invites.
This is a non-issue without even having to mention guided games.
How antisocial do you have to be to come to GAF to complain about this issue yet you cannot make a 10 second post asking for a group or help.
All LFG request are as follows: LFG or LFM. You request a group or more people. You explain the request with your gamertag, level, what you want or need. You can even say something like 'No Mic can hear for instruction' if you so desire it.
It will take anyone about 1-5 minutes to get a team or multiple invites.
This is a non-issue without even having to mention guided games.
The reason it's working is because you're being matched with two people who are willing to carry a 3rd wheel. It's not regular MM, the people you're matching with know the premise of GG and are willing to help. Even then it won't be a 100% success rate.
Add in regular MM and it would be a completely different story. GG is actually a pretty good solution from Bungie.
This is literally the one and only reason I could ever want MM in trials.
There are LFG sites and built in LFG features on Xbox (does PS have them?) in addition to an extensive community right here on GAF.
I'm glad nightfalls have matchmaking through Guided Games. Same with Raid. But if I'm fire team leader I am totally booting someone who isn't listening/no headset.
I'm not sure why so many people dog on Destiny for not having MM for its hardest content. It would be a fucking travesty with it. I'm currently in the Sea of Thieves alpha, a game that requires coordination just to get from point A to point B. I used to just keep exiting the game and coming back to get matchmade with a mic'd up party. I now exclusivley use the LFG app in Xbox. Life saver. And whats funny? Rare allowed matchmaking for the Alpha, which makes sense, but people on the forums complain about people not listening is hampering the game.
I couldn't even imagine if raids were like that.
I do think that the raid having guided games and trials not having them is silly. The raid requires more communication that trials imo.
katsubento
Member
I did Sturm solo.
This is amazing. It's the consumers job to open up end game content for themselves. And no, guided games is not the solution people were looking for. There isn't a single person who keeps squawking about Guided Games that can explain why this is a better option than just allowing people to CHOOSE to Match Make the way it's been done for decades. "Oh it's so toxic if you lose", "you need co-ordination. . .", etc. etc. do not answer the choice question.
Matchmaking
through 3rd party websites
Honestly, it's sad that Bungie didn't try to just build this into the game itself... cut out the middle-man who is making ad revenue off of your product...
Guided games is matchmaking homie.. Man people find a way to complain about anything
wesleyshark
Banned
Even if Guided Games wasn't a thing, you have:
Neogaf
Neogaf Discord
Xbox LFG
LFG websites
Reddit
Various other options
For all the time spent complaining in a post, you could already be matching up with folks to play what you want.
Neogaf
Neogaf Discord
Xbox LFG
LFG websites
Various other options
For all the time spent complaining in a post, you could already be matching up with folks to play what you want.
The Third Heat
Neo Member
I don't get why this is still being brought up. Matchmaking would certainly be "nice" but I think it would make for a rough experience for people new to the game. Of all people, Bungie should understand matchmaking and what happens in matchmaking better than a lot of developers and this is the choice they've made. I think Guided Games is a great idea and it's something that could expand as the game expands.
I am not your homie. And is Guided Games matchmaking or "essentially matchmaking?" You don't seem to be able to make up your mind (I'm CHOOSING to ignore that you've spectacularly ignored the main thrust of my point. . .which isn't surprising).
Niceguydan8
Member
I think it's just that there are other solutions that other games have that work fine.
For example, the hardest encounter in FFXIV: Stormblood is allowed to be attempted by eight individuals that may not know each other and I'm almost positive that it's been done by just pugs. It hasn't been completed by the vast majority of the community, but it's still been done and people still attempt it.
I think some people are dogging on it because there are established ways that exist in other games that could see implementation. Party Finder, while not some instantaneous matchmaking queue has pretty much every possibility that Guided Games has in regards to veterans helping newer players but it also allows for PUGs to group up and try something they may or may not complete that generally require a hell of a lot more coordination compared to anything I've seen in Destiny.
I think it's just that those other games (specifically MMOs) have better communication tools that allow for voiceless coordination, like markers that can be placed on the ground.
I think the conversation is not exclusive to somebody that uses neogaf. I think the conversation is that some people see Guided Games as only a half step to the solution.
Matchmaking is the process of putting together players to complete an activity. So yea its matchmaking homie.
The point, was that it is not matchmaking in the traditional sense, and that the individual I was responding to themselves recognized that. They're walking back their comments now because. . .reasons.
As has been said (multiple times) if Guided Games was no different than traditional matchmaking, why have it in the first place?
It's not a half step. It literally does the exact thing that you seem to be arguing so vehemently for. People who want to experience group activities but don't have friends to play with have an in game option to find others to do those activities with.
Niceguydan8
Member
Guided Games is not that.
I think Guided Games as it is now is okay, but I still think there's a lot of room for improvmeent. If you think it's exactly the same then you didn't actually read what I said. Everything in Guided Games can be experienced in Party Finder, but not everything in Party Finder can be experienced in Guided Games (in it's current iteration). Therefore, it cannot be the same. Right now, the hardest content in the game requires at least a few people to know each other through a clan. I'm not even vehemently arguing anything really. I'm just addressing the notion that having MM for the hardest content of Destiny would be a "travesty" when other games that have more complex encounters have been allowing pubs to attempt it with each other have existed for years.
There is no argument that will make me change my mind about this topic after playing hundreds of hours of Destiny 1: every activity in the game should have optional/toggable matchmaking.
I don't want to be obligated to resort to third-party tools to be able to access parts of the content. It's fucking dumb, period.
I don't remember what the exact stat was but a significant portion of Destiny players never finished a Raid. That should tell you there's a problem. I don't understand why Bungie refuses to go for the simplest solution.
I don't want to be obligated to resort to third-party tools to be able to access parts of the content. It's fucking dumb, period.
I don't remember what the exact stat was but a significant portion of Destiny players never finished a Raid. That should tell you there's a problem. I don't understand why Bungie refuses to go for the simplest solution.
What pool is larger, folks who single or group queue into a NF or Strike or folks who group queue into a NF or Strike?
Follow-up question, why is Guided Games better than traditional MM. . .or better yet, offered alongside it? Bungie was very clear about why GG exists and it has nothing to do with making it easier for folks who tend to play this game solo to experience content.
Not everybody lives in America or Europe, playing with people from there with 500ms latency would be more miserable than simple matchmaking.
Hey, remember when Destiny 1 had all the story outside of the game? Let's keep that going too! It's good when you need to stop playing the game to have game play experiences happen.
Guided games is a hell of a lot better than matchmaking.
I get the choice arguement but you guys are really ok with choosing to be matchmade with unqualified people more than 50% of the time?
Like I explained, in Sea of Thieves, you NEED voice chat to do the basic treasure hunt the game has. If you use their in game matchmaking, in my experience, most of the time you end up on a micless crew. Or maybe theres ONE person with a mic.
Maybe theres 3 people with mics and one without. And that guy can drop anchor or sail the ship away or be a general nuisance.
Now imagine that in a raid that requires strategies where people need to time things correctly using call outs, establish roles, etc.
You guys really want the option to have standard matchmaking so people try and and then complain about people no no mics or the raid being too hard?
I'm convinced everyone who wants standard matchmaking for raids never completed a raid.
I get the choice arguement but you guys are really ok with choosing to be matchmade with unqualified people more than 50% of the time?
Like I explained, in Sea of Thieves, you NEED voice chat to do the basic treasure hunt the game has. If you use their in game matchmaking, in my experience, most of the time you end up on a micless crew. Or maybe theres ONE person with a mic.
Maybe theres 3 people with mics and one without. And that guy can drop anchor or sail the ship away or be a general nuisance.
Now imagine that in a raid that requires strategies where people need to time things correctly using call outs, establish roles, etc.
You guys really want the option to have standard matchmaking so people try and and then complain about people no no mics or the raid being too hard?
I'm convinced everyone who wants standard matchmaking for raids never completed a raid.
wesleyshark
Banned
Standard matchmaking for raids would be a complete and utter disaster.
grfunkulus
Banned
Fix for this misleading as hell thread title please?
"I really wish the game would just matchmake me with complete strangers who may be totally amazing and understand the encounter or may just AFK for rewards or troll me the whole time. Let me log on to GAF and make a post about it. That'll definitely change things."
Or you could go to the OT thread, and introduce yourself to like 1,000 people that love the game and enjoy (GASP) helping people. There are at least 7 (more?) clans looking for people - all around the freaking globe.
You know, something like this, as an example:
"Hi I am a fellow human being that enjoys Destiny. I'm kinda shy, but if at all possible, looking to meet cool people that play Destiny so I NEVER HAVE TO PLAY WITH RANDOM PEOPLE THAT MAY RUIN MY EXPERIENCE OR AFK THE WHOLE TIME. Are you those people?"
In one scenario you make a thread and basically yell at clouds; in the other you say Hi and make friends.
Or you could go to the OT thread, and introduce yourself to like 1,000 people that love the game and enjoy (GASP) helping people. There are at least 7 (more?) clans looking for people - all around the freaking globe.
You know, something like this, as an example:
"Hi I am a fellow human being that enjoys Destiny. I'm kinda shy, but if at all possible, looking to meet cool people that play Destiny so I NEVER HAVE TO PLAY WITH RANDOM PEOPLE THAT MAY RUIN MY EXPERIENCE OR AFK THE WHOLE TIME. Are you those people?"
In one scenario you make a thread and basically yell at clouds; in the other you say Hi and make friends.
You wouldn't be new to the game if you want to do Nightfall or raid. You'd have to have gotten through the entire game and have a reasonable light score. So you're not some rookie running around with their head cut off
Niceguydan8
Member
It's just that there doesn't seem to be a downside to traditional matchmaking that is totally voluntary. If people want to attempt the raid with a bunch of random people, why not let them try? A bunch of other, more difficult raid encounters in other games let people do that and have been letting them do that for years.
Everything that exists in guided games right now could still exist with matchmaking. There could still be incentives to have a big premade group helping out some random. The clan reputation stuff could still exist with traditional matchmaking.
I'm of the mindset that there needs to be better in game tools to promote coordination as well. Something like markers that MMOs use, for example.
The argument that it's too hard/complicated gets really weak as the raid ages anyways. How effective is Guided Games going to be after the game has been out for two months, for example? At that point, most people that would raid probably have. They probably know the encounter/have solved the puzzle enough to the point where it's probably cleared by a bunch of randoms doing the raid together. Raids in general aren't hard for very long. Once it "clicks" it's going through the motions more than anything else. This is how it's been for every single raid I've ever done, including every single Destiny raid.
Nah I'd rather not do that and just push a button to solo queue and not use a mic and play the game how I like. If it's a bad experience for me, so be it. I lose a lot on Overwatch because I don't use a team and have people run around with their heads cut off. But if still rather do that than work out getting a group together and have to tie myself down with everybody's schedule.
I view my gaming time as a solitary experience where I may or may not decide to talk on a mic and do stuff without a premade group
Oh look, what a novel concept Blizzard included in their game a long time ago.
Truly nightfall's and quests that require a fireteam in Destiny are so very complicated that any tool inside of their game such as this would make for an awful experience.
More options = good.
Less options and forcing people to leave the game to find people = bad but people will defend it to death because "fuck you it's fine" I guess?
CraigerGamer
Member
I read through the Vanilla WOW thread yesterday http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1434108&highlight=vanilla and it makes perfect sense why Bungie is so restrictive when it comes to MM. Right or wrong, they want to build a community and this is how they plan on doing so. I don't think its just a matter of it being difficult or it will frustrate new players...its a decision that is intentional in order to keep the very best of what Destiny is (the community) together.
This is complete and utter bullshit. My first Raid clear was with two dudes who were friends and 4 random recruits from the tower including myself. Besides, MM doesn't necessarily mean throwing 6 randos together. It might mean a 4 person Fireteam hooking up with a 2 person Fireteam, or two groups of 3 being brought together etc.. Throw in the checkpoint system and the fact you have a week to finish, you're telling me people couldn't make it work?
Let's be real here, the main reason people don't want Raid MM is because it would make the only relatively 'exclusive' gear in the game markedly less so. There is not a single valid reason against giving people the option, especially from those who already have a regular group. Nothing would change for those people.
Guided Games does. . .but it is still dependent on people in a clan to run it and is still a far less better solution than GG w/ MM or MM alone.
Asking again: Does Guide Games count for my Nightfall milestone?
If they want to build a community I should be able to talk to people without using external resources. I'm never going to care about joe2132 if I have to send him a PSN message or XB1 message. Hell, I have my message notifications off these days.
katsubento
Member
Nightfall is definitely possible...Raid with no mic? No. There are times where players are separated and have to tell others what to do since the other players cannot see what they can. Nightfalls are just Strikes. Raid is built upon communication more so this Raid than any other they have done.
Interficium
Banned
Oh look, what a novel concept Blizzard included in their game a long time ago.
Truly nightfall's and quests that require a fireteam in Destiny are so very complicated that any tool inside of their game such as this would make for an awful experience.
More options = good.
Less options and forcing people to leave the game to find people = bad but people will defend it to death because "fuck you it's fine" I guess?
Ah yes, this much-beloved feature from WoW. lol.
ChosenPredator
Banned
Why can't we have a choice to play with randoms and let the people who say "it's not something you play with randoms on" play with the people they know, why can't we have both? I know about reasons why people say it's not good but personally if I want to play a session I'll hook up with randoms and wing it i know the experience I could get with it and who knows maybe I'll make a few solid friends off of it and then we can form a team based off of those random friends.
Yeah you're right, lets go back to shouting in trade chat for two hours looking for a healer for a heroic dungeon. That was great.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Guess that means I'll have to solo them again... Rah. Thanks Bungie.
Why waste time to develop a system for matchmaking when people will most likely have a shitty experience with it? It's not something people take 10 minutes to write up a line of code. I played with two shit groups yesterday. And this is using a 3rd party site. People who went out of their way to look for a group. Imagine if there was an easy button to look for a group and the quality of the group itself. Fuck. That.
ChosenPredator
Banned
Based off of personal experience when it comes to the smaller type of quest/challenges it hasn't been so bad, my personal experiences and yours are different but i rather have the option to try it then never actually play it, for myself I don't want to go online searching for people to play with.
but i get what you're saying as well.
How many posts have you made in this thread about it though? If you instead popped in the OT and said "Hey I'm Blake, who wants to NF? I'm in orbit. My PSN is ____."
You'd likely have a couple people join you quickly, you'd make friends from this humongous site you clearly frequent, and would see the contrary side to your argument.
Mark Knowsworthy said on stage at Gamescom. "Destiny 2 is a game to play with friends."
If you say "I don't want to make friends" then ok, point made.
But if you're here already, make your next post in the OT and meet some cool people.
Blake, serious: Quick story time.
I've played with multiple (as in: a LOT of) GAFers. Some of them have played with or know folks from Bungie.
Do you know who Dan Miller is? He was a big part of the Vault of Glass' design.
I invited a buddy to do HM VoG, who brought Dan with him. That night he finally got his Vex Mythoclast and was super jazzed. Talked to us about the game for about 30 minutes. Now and then (because he knows we're from GAF) he'll pop into party to say hi or say "Guys, want to run a NF?"
Stuff like that nearly never happens when you just "push a button." You get to meet people. Cool people. Give it a shot. You might just like it.
The sound of someone who absolutely does not know what they're talking about.
CouchMaster
Member
It sure as hell will improve Trials experience for me and my fireteam who couldn't shoot straight if their life depended on it :lol
Pls bring MM to Trials Bungie, so we can go to the lighthouse as well.
I'm not sure if Bungie has actual stats to back it up or it's an assumption that they made but Bungie is essentially taking the reins and saying "players who use matchmaking are going to have a terrible experience with the raid which will affect how they view the game. plus it takes time, money, and manpower to create the matchmaking system and such so we're not doing raid matchmaking"
Granted...we do have GG but... eh...... The Leviathan Raid is like the worst raid for this feature.
I get your point tho.
katsubento
Member
This should be on the back of the box.
CraigerGamer
Member
But they have built a community. A very loyal and robust one that is more accepting and kind than any other community out there (that I have seen.) So, perhaps while their decision is unpopular, their decision fulfills their vision for the game.
Again, this seems in-line with how folks felt about Vanilla WOW before they added QOL improvements such as flying mounts and MM. Using a 3rd party site eliminated much of the riff-raff I would see in the match making for random strikes and I became very close with the 9-10 people I would Raid with. I would never have had that if I could just que into events.