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Develop-Online: The Order: 1886 Dev Says "Internet Is The New Playground For Bullies"

M

MormaPope

Banned
Steve Youngblood said:
And my point would be that it's silly to suggest that a video game can be bullied.
Click to expand...

Agreed and I understand the sentiment you have completely.

While designers/developers can be bullied and harassed, being overly critical or even just being a flaming jackass towards a game isn't bullying. Videogame developer or community bullying is what happened to Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian.

If bullying is unfair or fast and loose criticism levied at consumer products or art, the vast majority of people, myself included, are guilty of bullying.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
MormaPope said:
Agreed and I understand the sentiment you have completely.

While designers/developers can be bullied and harassed, being overly critical or even just being a flaming jackass towards a game isn't bullying. Videogame developer or community bullying is what happened to Phil Fish, Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian.

If bullying is unfair or fast and loose criticism levied at consumer products or art, the vast majority of people, myself included, are guilty of bullying.
Click to expand...

He's talking specifically about large groups of people picking on devs, not just about any individual who has criticism.

People make personal connections with the work they create. Expecting them not to take offense at claims like 'lazy' or 'incompetent' devs is crazy.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
OddMorsel said:
It isn't asinine to feel bullied when huge crowds of people take pot shots at work you created. It takes an especially steely resolve to be able to withstand criticism – even constructive criticism – of something you've put hundreds of hours of your heart and soul into. Taking that to the next level, where your work has become the whipping boy for anonymous Internet mobs to beat up relentlessly with drive-by shitposts and assumptions you can't respond to because their numbers are overwhelming and you're just you, I think that anyone who thinks it's 'asinine' to feel bullied is lacking in empathy, to say the least.
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I have to ask, what do devs feel when they see obvious fanboy cheerleading or pandemonium? I'm talking about people swearing by the product, looking irrational and childish in the process.

Do devs feel joy for eliciting such behavior, that people are somehow willing to defend or prop up what they made? Or are they satisfied with the guaranteed sale, and could give no fucks about the blind positivity based on what they have or haven't shown?

Both of these attitudes and mindsets affect gaming communities negatively, because discussion becomes defensive and borderline moot. But for game devs? Do they really care if the fanboys raise their flag for them, on a personal level rather than a business one?
 
R

rambis

Banned
MormaPope said:
I have to ask, what do devs feel when they see obvious fanboy cheerleading or pandemonium? I'm talking about people swearing by the product, looking irrational and childish in the process.

Do devs feel joy for eliciting such behavior, that people are somehow willing to defend or prop up what they made? Or are they satisfied with the guaranteed sale, and could give no fucks about the blind positivity based on what they have or haven't shown?

Both of these attitudes and mindsets affect gaming communities negatively, because discussion becomes defensive and borderline moot. But for game devs? Do they really care if the fanboys raise their flag for them, on a personal level rather than a business one?
Click to expand...
Probably rhetorical but I'm pretty sure this would be a question that you would have to ask a developer and not GAF. And the answer would probably be different depending on who you ask.
 
C

Crosseyes

Banned
BigTnaples said:
They're right?


I feel like this is common knowledge.

Topic
X dev says "----------".

Thread
*uproar, outrage, condemnation!*



How often do we see this happen?
Click to expand...
I have to agree. Its a greater problem getting worse lately with the gaming community, the worst extreme manifestation of it being the gamergate abomination. With each design decision, press release, or info given you can find good feedback from gamers but always have to wade through the insults and dismissing of the game outright. Every time.

Games like MCC or Unity have gotten a lot of people more cynical lately but we know how shit the corporate side is of being a dev, if the gamers give you the same shafting and attacks for miniscule design decisions that every dev works and has chosen their career to do and then get shafted in return again by corporate heads running everything... itll drive people out just as effectively as gamergate did.
 
F

Friction

Member
The $100 dollar steak that bullies aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate.

RAD's PR is probably looking for the door.

Reminds me of all that Ryse hate.
 
Woo-Fu

Woo-Fu

Banned
I don't really understand the concept of Internet bullying. If somebody is an asshole you use whatever ignore feature is built-in to the client that person is using to communicate with you. So much easier to shut people up on the Internet than it is in real life, lol.

If as a developer knowing that such people are saying things like that about you or your company/product hurts your feelings to the point you feel bullied then you should never, ever be on the customer-facing side of any company.

Lastly, the worst thing you can do is play the victim card. You're just chumming the waters.
 
A

Animator

Member
Crosseyes said:
I have to agree. Its a greater problem getting worse lately with the gaming community, the worst extreme manifestation of it being the gamergate abomination. With each design decision, press release, or info given you can find good feedback from gamers but always have to wade through the insults and dismissing of the game outright. Every time.

Games like MCC or Unity have gotten a lot of people more cynical lately but we know how shit the corporate side is of being a dev, if the gamers give you the same shafting and attacks for miniscule design decisions that every dev works and has chosen their career to do and then get shafted in return again by corporate heads running everything... itll drive people out just as effectively as gamergate did.
Click to expand...

Yea exactly. I am pretty much done reading the threads here and elsewhere because it is always the predictable negativity against pretty much everything. I guess I grew too old for internet message boards finally.
 
B

BrokenEchelon

Banned
Crosseyes said:
I have to agree. Its a greater problem getting worse lately with the gaming community, the worst extreme manifestation of it being the gamergate abomination. With each design decision, press release, or info given you can find good feedback from gamers but always have to wade through the insults and dismissing of the game outright. Every time.

Games like MCC or Unity have gotten a lot of people more cynical lately but we know how shit the corporate side is of being a dev, if the gamers give you the same shafting and attacks for miniscule design decisions that every dev works and has chosen their career to do and then get shafted in return again by corporate heads running everything... itll drive people out just as effectively as gamergate did.
Click to expand...

If the game industry stops making worse and worse games with each passing year, stops releasing more and more broken games with each passing year, and stops trying to fuck the consumer over with DLC, Amiibos, pay2win, and other bullshit more and more each passing year, then maybe us consumers might get a little less cynical.

Until then, fuck off whiny devs and go put your efforts towards your games instead of bitching about internet forums like you're Cliff Bleszinski
 
L

LookAtMeGo

Member
BrokenEchelon said:
If the game industry stops making worse and worse games with each passing year, stops releasing more and more broken games with each passing year, and stops trying to fuck the consumer over with DLC, Amiibos, pay2win, and other bullshit more and more each passing year, then maybe us consumers might get a little less cynical.

Until then, fuck off whiny devs and go put your efforts towards your games instead of bitching about internet forums like you're Cliff Bleszinski
Click to expand...

What in your post is The Order/RAD guilty of?
 
S

ScOULaris

Member
Haha. All of these OT thread titles are killing me. With regard to the bullying comments, I can certainly understand how it would be hard as a developer to see a bunch of hate for something you've been working on for years. That being said, most of the criticisms being levied against The Order are completely valid.
 
A

Amentallica

Unconfirmed Member
BrokenEchelon said:
If the game industry stops making worse and worse games with each passing year, stops releasing more and more broken games with each passing year, and stops trying to fuck the consumer over with DLC, Amiibos, pay2win, and other bullshit more and more each passing year, then maybe us consumers might get a little less cynical.

Until then, fuck off whiny devs and go put your efforts towards your games instead of bitching about internet forums like you're Cliff Bleszinski
Click to expand...

You're an asshole, far worse than the developers you're complaining about. What you're doing is generalizing developer behavior and suggesting that every developer is the same and deserves the same treatment as, say, Ubisoft.
 
Woo-Fu

Woo-Fu

Banned
LookAtMeGo said:
What in your post is The Order/RAD guilty of?
Click to expand...

He's referring to the industry as a whole. He's not blaming The Order/RAD for his cynicism, he's blaming the entire industry, or perhaps more accurately the perceived trend of fucking the consumer in as many ways as possible while still retaining the majority of your customers.

In this particular case there is a perception that RAD is under-delivering on content/dollar spent, at least in comparison to other developers/games. If people tell you your pricing is out of whack telling them they're just not sophisticated enough to perceive the value is probably not a winning strategy.
 
L

LookAtMeGo

Member
Woo-Fu said:
He's referring to the industry as a whole. He's not blaming The Order/RAD for his cynicism, he's blaming the entire industry, or perhaps more accurately the perceived trend of fucking the consumer in as many ways as possible while still retaining the majority of your customers.

In this particular case there is a perception that RAD is under-delivering on content/dollar spent, at least in comparison to other developers/games. If people tell you your pricing is out of whack telling them they're just not sophisticated enough to perceive the value is probably not a winning strategy.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. Outside of the perceived "dollar value per hour" issue, it seems like RAD is delivering a quality, polished game with little to no microtransactions or DLC. Thats what a lot of people have wanted from games as of late with all the broken, unfinished, microtransaction and DLC ridden stuff that has been released lately. But anything positive they are accomplishing is being overshadowed by negativity surrounding the games length. The game may very well underdeliver on just about everything but we hav'nt even givin it a chance yet.
 
B

BrokenEchelon

Banned
LookAtMeGo said:
What in your post is The Order/RAD guilty of?
Click to expand...

Woo-Fu beat me to my own answer, lol.

Woo-Fu said:
He's referring to the industry as a whole. He's not blaming The Order/RAD for his cynicism, he's blaming the entire industry, or perhaps more accurately the perceived trend of fucking the consumer in as many ways as possible while still retaining the majority of your customers.

In this particular case there is a perception that RAD is under-delivering on content/dollar spent, at least in comparison to other developers/games. If people tell you your pricing is out of whack telling them they're just not sophisticated enough to perceive the value is probably not a winning strategy.
Click to expand...

LookAtMeGo said:
Fair enough. Outside of the perceived "dollar value per hour" issue, it seems like RAD is delivering a quality, polished game with little to no microtransactions or DLC. Thats what a lot of people have wanted from games as of late with all the broken, unfinished, microtransaction and DLC ridden stuff that has been released lately. But anything positive they are accomplishing is being overshadowed by negativity surrounding the games length. The game may very well underdeliver on just about everything but we hav'nt even givin it a chance yet.
Click to expand...

They're keeping the conversation going by tossing this easy bait back out into the ether about steaks and up-hill battles and whatnot. You start playing the victim, and the people who were criticizing you for length are now going to go for the throat.
 
L

LookAtMeGo

Member
BrokenEchelon said:
Woo-Fu beat me to my own answer, lol.





They're keeping the conversation going by tossing this easy bait back out into the ether about steaks and up-hill battles and whatnot. You start playing the victim, and the people who were criticizing you for length are now going to go for the throat.
Click to expand...
Going to have to agree with you there.
 
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