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[Barrow Roll]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but there's something that's said over and over about chromatic aberration that I just don't understand: It looks good in Alien Isolation because it's emulating a lo-fi movie.

Have you guys actually seen Alien? Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but there's little if any CA in that movie at all. And if there is, it's definitely not to the same degree as the effect in the game.

 

[DaveC19]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but there's something that's said over and over about chromatic aberration that I just don't understand: It looks good in Alien Isolation because it's emulating a lo-fi movie.

Have you guys actually seen Alien? Maybe my eyes are deceiving me, but there's little if any CA in that movie at all. And if there is, it's definitely not to the same degree as the effect in the game.

Alien doesn't have it because they weren't using crappy cameras to film the movie. CA is a DEFECT that photographers try to avoid. The fact that devs picked up on it and are going mental throwing it in everything is stupid. They do it because they can. It RUINED the graphics in Bloodborne, I can't play the game it gives me a headache. It isn't just the color fringing but the blurriness as well. How anyone thinks that looks good is beyond me. What is next, devs simulating NTSC composite video color bleeding and dot crawl?

Look at this shot of BB where they crank up the CA to 11, ACK!

 

[T0KY0ST0MP]

Alien doesn't have it because they weren't using crappy cameras to film the movie. CA is a DEFECT that photographers try to avoid. The fact that devs picked up on it and are going mental throwing it in everything is stupid. They do it because they can. It RUINED the graphics in Bloodborne, I can't play the game it gives me a headache. It isn't just the color fringing but the blurriness as well. How anyone thinks that looks good is beyond me.

Look at this shot of BB, ACK!

Patch it out!
Overdone CA makes me think my TV is worse than it is.

 

[cerulily]

The problem is that Bloodborne's IQ is not nearly as good as that bullshot. The CA helps mask some of the deficiencies and I also think that the slight 'distortion' effect gives it a more stylized appearance that I prefer but is obviously subjective (and I assume many people will dislike)

Wait, what? This pretty much looks almost exactly like the game running on my tv.

 

[Summer Haze]

Bloodborne's CA is so horribly overdone. That electronic blur/vaseline effect is just not pleasant to look at for me. Almost makes me nauseous.

 

[DaveC19]

Patch it out!
Overdone CA makes me think my TV is worse than it is.

It makes my EYES look worse than they do! It makes it look like I have a massive astigmatism or something.

Sadly we can't really ask From Software directly to put in an option to remove that garbage. I don't understand how anyone thinks that looks good. Worse yet the framerate would probably be a bit smoother by shutting that off, they make it choppier to make it look worse it is lose-lose.

 

[BarringGaffner]

I work in vfx as a comp supervisor. Thought i'd share my 2 cents.

Chromatic abberation is still in most modern films, I know because I have to match it in EVERY shot that comes through our studio. It will vary based on what lens was used. I'm working on a modern Disney film right now and while most daylight shots have minimal lens abberation, I have one night sequence shot on anamorphic that has a TON of blur all around the edges as well chromatic abberation that would make people in this thread cringe. BUT aesthetically it works for the sequence. I worked on Elysium and that had quite extreme abberatiom and blur, but again it looked great and helped the CG integrate in. A lot of the time it is intended. It's wrong to say it's gone from modern films or that no DoP wants it. Most DoP's i've met are nostalgic forthe look of older lenses and film, but studios usually refuse to let them make the film technically worse.

I've worked on plenty of all CG shots where in a list ditched attempt to make it feel real we crank up the chromatic abberation and dirt on the lens to to grime it up. So I get why it's done in games. Unfortunately it's not a 2 second shot, it's built into the entire game post treatment so it's ALWAYS on in games.

I don't mind these lens treatments if they are subtle and make sense. First person flares make sense. First person lens dirt does not. Some game designers understand this.

Same with unrealistic depth of field. Games have had it for years now but only a handful have done it remotely correct.

One that stands out as done well (though still leaning on the exaggerated side) was The Order... incredibly impressive from a finishing touches standpoint.. they actually had lens distortion and fairly accurate DOF! I'm also impressed they did it live at 24fps... lens distortion takes a second to calculate in film compositing software... and DOF can take minutes to calculate a single frame. Game programmers are mindblowing.

Slight rant.. I'd be happy to answer questions about it though.

 

[DaveC19]

I work in vfx as a comp supervisor. Thought i'd share my 2 cents.

Chromatic abberation is still in most modern films, I know because I have to match it in EVERY shot that comes through our studio. It will vary based on what lens was used....
Slight rant.. I'd be happy to answer questions about it though.

There is one problem, games are not movies. Not only do you play a game longer than you watch a movie usually you need to pay more attention to details in a game than you do in a movie. In a game that small 5 pixel moving object (that is blurred out in BB due to CA) is a monster that is homing in on you and you need to judge what to do next. You need to watch every pixel, which can give you a headache when it is all blurred out. Also playing a game is simulating you being there in that world. Unless you walk around in real life looking through a camera with bad lenses strapped to your head, it is unrealistic. Your eyes don't have CA like that. A movie you just look at as an observer, it is passive.

I can see using CA sparingly and in some brief moments (like looking through binoculars, cutscenes). The problem is that they go mental with it ruining the graphics. Look at that BB shot, the brick textures and fence posts are a blurry mess as you stray from the middle of the screen, the game may as well run in 720p because that is what it looks like.

I don't like it in games, it should at LEAST be able to be toggled off.

 

[vagabondarts]

I work in vfx as a comp supervisor. Thought i'd share my 2 cents.

Chromatic abberation is still in most modern films, I know because I have to match it in EVERY shot that comes through our studio. It will vary based on what lens was used. I'm working on a modern Disney film right now and while most daylight shots have minimal lens abberation, I have one night sequence shot on anamorphic that has a TON of blur all around the edges as well chromatic abberation that would make people in this thread cringe. BUT aesthetically it works for the sequence. I worked on Elysium and that had quite extreme abberatiom and blur, but again it looked great and helped the CG integrate in. A lot of the time it is intended. It's wrong to say it's gone from modern films or that no DoP wants it. Most DoP's i've met are nostalgic forthe look of older lenses and film, but studios usually refuse to let them make the film technically worse.

I've worked on plenty of all CG shots where in a list ditched attempt to make it feel real we crank up the chromatic abberation and dirt on the lens to to grime it up. So I get why it's done in games. Unfortunately it's not a 2 second shot, it's built into the entire game post treatment so it's ALWAYS on in games.

I don't mind these lens treatments if they are subtle and make sense. First person flares make sense. First person lens dirt does not. Some game designers understand this.

Same with unrealistic depth of field. Games have had it for years now but only a handful have done it remotely correct.

One that stands out as done well (though still leaning on the exaggerated side) was The Order... incredibly impressive from a finishing touches standpoint.. they actually had lens distortion and fairly accurate DOF! I'm also impressed they did it live at 24fps... lens distortion takes a second to calculate in film compositing software... and DOF can take minutes to calculate a single frame. Game programmers are mindblowing.

Slight rant.. I'd be happy to answer questions about it though.

Thank you for the post. Very informative! I have to ask you about the teal and orange thing that is everywhere in films though. Is this a visual effects in-joke and troll on the industry or does it serve a purpose for easier image compositing for 3d post conversion or something?
Genuinely curious.

 

[SebastianM]

I hate it too, but it's the brown filter and excessive HDR of this gen. It'll be gone in a year or so.

 

[DaveC19]

Thank you for the post. Very informative! I have to ask you about the teal and orange thing that is everywhere in films though. Is this a visual effects in-joke and troll on the industry or does it serve a purpose for easier image compositing for 3d post conversion or something?
Genuinely curious.

Is that like how they made the Bladerunner Blu-ray remaster all GREEN instead of the bluish tones from the original? I hated that to the point that I couldn't watch it. It was never GREEN, it looked like my TV was broke.

 

[Timu]

Alien doesn't have it because they weren't using crappy cameras to film the movie. CA is a DEFECT that photographers try to avoid. The fact that devs picked up on it and are going mental throwing it in everything is stupid. They do it because they can. It RUINED the graphics in Bloodborne, I can't play the game it gives me a headache. It isn't just the color fringing but the blurriness as well. How anyone thinks that looks good is beyond me. What is next, devs simulating NTSC composite video color bleeding and dot crawl?

Look at this shot of BB where they crank up the CA to 11, ACK!

Holy crap...BB looks better without CA!!!

 

[Sticky&Sweet]

The CA in BB is fairly off putting at times.

 

[BomberMouse]

I like it in bloodborne, adds a lot to the atmosphere and dreamy themes.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

Is chromatic aberattion the cause of the bright-colored outline around weapons hanging over Bloodborne's weapon workshop? (disclaimer - not my picture)

Whatever it is, it's a hideous effect that I wish was removed. This picture doesn't even show the effect at its worst....

 

[BarringGaffner]

I don't like it in games, it should at LEAST be able to be toggled off.

agreed. It doesn't bother me but it should clearly be an option in most cases.

Thank you for the post. Very informative! I have to ask you about the teal and orange thing that is everywhere in films though. Is this a visual effects in-joke and troll on the industry or does it serve a purpose for easier image compositing for 3d post conversion or something?
Genuinely curious.

These colours do complement eachother but yes they are overused, and yes it is a joke with us. Not so funny joke when we work on it one way then see a trailer or the final film and they've graded it that way

I think it really just comes down to a few successful movies using those colours heavily, so studios point to those and go 'make it look like that'... there just aren't many people trying to be original at the Blockbuster level, they mostly want to be safe. Look at The Dark Knight- they make one interesting/unique sound in a trailer and suddenly it's in EVERY trailer. It's just easy for the people that make decisions to just copy things they think makes up a 'successful' movie. 'Like that, but completely different' is a common theme when non-creative people get involved with creative decisions...

Is chromatic aberattion the cause of the bright-colored outline around weapons hanging over Bloodborne's weapon workshop? (disclaimer - not my picture)
Whatever it is, it's a hideous effect that I wish was removed. This picture doesn't even show the effect at its worst....

Nope. That's some other weird effect. I see what you mean. It could be a side effect of some other post filter. Almost looks like a thin outline around them. Does it only happen when you put your curson over?

 

[jett]

The Witcher 3 has the best use of CA.

Because it's pretty much unnoticeable.

 

[AndyMoogle]

The Witcher 3 has the best use of CA.

Because it's pretty much unnoticeable.

Yup. When I set it to off I don't notice it at all.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I don't mind these lens treatments if they are subtle and make sense. First person flares make sense. First person lens dirt does not. Some game designers understand this.

Same with unrealistic depth of field. Games have had it for years now but only a handful have done it remotely correct.

That's the problem. The effects themselves aren't inherently bad, but most game devs have very little experience with them and no idea how to use those effects right.

 

[Five]

Same with unrealistic depth of field. Games have had it for years now but only a handful have done it remotely correct.

One that stands out as done well (though still leaning on the exaggerated side) was The Order... incredibly impressive from a finishing touches standpoint.. they actually had lens distortion and fairly accurate DOF! I'm also impressed they did it live at 24fps... lens distortion takes a second to calculate in film compositing software... and DOF can take minutes to calculate a single frame. Game programmers are mindblowing.

Slight rant.. I'd be happy to answer questions about it though.

How is it done in the software you're using?

In a game, it's actually pretty simple to do. Take the screen buffer, copy it, blur that copy with a big Gaussian kernel, then use the depth buffer and some sort of scaling function to blend the blurred copy with the original. Getting that right mostly means using the right scaling function and adjusting the scale as necessary.

 

[herod]

Alien doesn't have it because they weren't using crappy cameras to film the movie. CA is a DEFECT that photographers try to avoid.

I hate this dumb assumption. In fact you have to be spending quite a lot of money to encounter this kind of problem at all.

The quality of the camera is irrelevant, it's down to the lens, but either way it's nothing to do with 'crappy' anything, it's an inherent side effect of wide apertures (and wider apertures = higher prices) and is even present on the best lenses money can buy.

How is it done in the software you're using?

In a game, it's actually pretty simple to do. Take the screen buffer, copy it, blur that copy with a big Gaussian kernel, then use the depth buffer and some sort of scaling function to blend the blurred copy with the original. Getting that right mostly means using the right scaling function and adjusting the scale as necessary.

I guess it's much harder with 2D images than if you have all the z-axis values to play with.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

I've just returned Lords of the Fallen because it's a bit shit (and too hard for my aging skills) and I didn't notice one instance of this phenomenon.

Isn't it meant to be one of the worst offenders?

Y'all getting your panties in a twist over nothing as far as I can tell.

 

[Seanspeed]

I've just returned Lords of the Fallen because it's a bit shit (and too hard for my aging skills) and I didn't notice one instance of this phenomenon.

I envy you, I really do.

 

[Bornstellar]

Is chromatic aberattion the cause of the bright-colored outline around weapons hanging over Bloodborne's weapon workshop? (disclaimer - not my picture)

Whatever it is, it's a hideous effect that I wish was removed. This picture doesn't even show the effect at its worst....

Looks like a bad AO implementation.

 

[Five]

I guess it's much harder with 2D images than if you have all the z-axis values to play with.

Yeah, or the software is using a more accurate method rather than the shortcut games take.

I've just returned Lords of the Fallen because it's a bit shit (and too hard for my aging skills) and I didn't notice one instance of this phenomenon.

Isn't it meant to be one of the worst offenders?

Y'all getting your panties in a twist over nothing as far as I can tell.

It doesn't bother me either, but I don't think people would be calling it an eyesore if it didn't actually bother them.

 

[spekkeh]

I wish the Witcher 3 had more chromatic aberration. There's too much detailed information on the screen and the lighting sometimes seems a bit off, making the scene look flat. I think some CA or other edge effect (you could also overuse ambient occlusion like in Far Cry, but I prefer CA in this case), would add depth to the scene and make it much easier to parse.

 

[NeonBlack]

Can we start this type of movement against vignetting or am I the only person that puts it up there with CA?

 

[Sanctuary]

It really is one of the worst post-processing effects now. Used correctly, it can enhance some things, but the majority of games just smear it on slapdash on top of the entire screen and it looks like absolute shit. Some people are more sensitive to it than others though. I commented how bad it made Bloodborne look, and a bunch of people replied how they don't notice it.

To me it's like viewing an image that is being distorted through glass, or almost like a cyan/magenta old school 3D effect, without the glasses.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I love that effect.

Same with bloom...

Never understood the problem people have with it..

Gamers these days *sigh*... *will go back yelling at clouds now*

 

[Sanctuary]

I love that effect.

Same with bloom...

Never understood the problem people have with it..

Gamers these days *sigh*... *will go back yelling at clouds now*

Enjoy your vaseline smear.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

I don't mind it but I'm sure if I had a high end PC then it'd be a more obvious problem. I hate it anyway.
Edit: Dem Bloodborne pics, doe.

 

[BarringGaffner]

How is it done in the software you're using?

In a game, it's actually pretty simple to do. Take the screen buffer, copy it, blur that copy with a big Gaussian kernel, then use the depth buffer and some sort of scaling function to blend the blurred copy with the original. Getting that right mostly means using the right scaling function and adjusting the scale as necessary.

Still impressive when done at fractions of a second!

It's not too different from what we do. I use software called Nuke.

I work at Double Negative and we have custom tools, but most common is the Z Defocus algorithim- you input your image, depth information (zdepth), and lens data/focal length/etc which makes it more accurate to what a real lens may do. You can also input a bokeh shape to get a detailed bokeh or to match specific bokeh. You set the amount of z slices, the more there are the more size variation you get in depth (and the slower it is). Each slice is defocused at a different amount to give accurate falloff.

Usually we would apply defocus to each character/environment separately in order to get accurate/clean edges where it blends between fg/bg, then merge them together.

And then there is WETA that render their depth of field into their raw renders because they have a godly render farm.

 

[d9b]

I don't mind it in moderation.

Looks great if used properly.

 

[Five]

Still impressive when done at fractions of a second!

It's not too different from what we do. I use software called Nuke.

I work at Double Negative and we have custom tools, but most common is the Z Defocus algorithim- you input your image, depth information (zdepth), and lens data/focal length/etc which makes it more accurate to what a real lens may do. You can also input a bokeh shape to get a detailed bokeh or to match specific bokeh. You set the amount of z slices, the more there are the more size variation you get in depth (and the slower it is). Each slice is defocused at a different amount to give accurate falloff.

Usually we would apply defocus to each character/environment separately in order to get accurate/clean edges where it blends between fg/bg, then merge them together.

And then there is WETA that render their depth of field into their raw renders because they have a godly render farm.

Ah, yeah, it sounds like there's a much more intense process there. In most games it's just a single-pass post-process. Or, if it's a 2D game like Limbo, just pre-blur the assets in PhotoShop.

The other thing is most games don't do bokeh. That's still super expensive in games. I guess we haven't found a reasonable shortcut for it, although I read a neat article about its implementation in Witcher 2 a while ago (http://bartwronski.com/2014/04/07/bokeh-depth-of-field-going-insane-part-1/).

 

[synce]

You know what's funny is that it spread beyond videogames. There's digital artists who add this shitty effect to their paintings. Much filmic, very realism >_>

 

[sublimit]

You know what's funny is that it spread beyond videogames. There's digital artists who add this shitty effect to their paintings. Much filmic, very realism >_>

Yeah it has become the new lens flare.It's sad to see even professional concept artists abusing this gimmick. :/

 

[CadetMahoney]

The fact that devs continue to use it is proof that they're using it as some sort of blur/motion blur to mask performance issues.

 

[Windom Earle]

I think it looks great in Bloodborne.

 

[Freshmaker]

Thank you for the post. Very informative! I have to ask you about the teal and orange thing that is everywhere in films though. Is this a visual effects in-joke and troll on the industry or does it serve a purpose for easier image compositing for 3d post conversion or something?
Genuinely curious.

They're just contrasting colors. If you really want to go insane, start paying attention to red and black.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

The fact that devs continue to use it is proof that they're using it as some sort of blur/motion blur to mask performance issues.

It doesn't really prove anything.

 

[Zoggy]

The fact that devs continue to use it is proof that they're using it as some sort of blur/motion blur to mask performance issues.

but isn't CA some sort of post-processing effect? why would they add in a performance taxing effect to hide performance issues?

 

[Sanctuary]

but isn't CA some sort of post-processing effect? why would they add in a performance taxing effect to hide performance issues?

Motion blur is post-processing and it's typically used to hide framerate issues. The only thing I can think that CA would be used for in regards to performance would be an alternative AA method.

 

[Five]

but isn't CA some sort of post-processing effect? why would they add in a performance taxing effect to hide performance issues?

As far as post effects go, CA is pretty cheap. Cheaper than AA, DoF, motion blur, AO, et cetera.

That said, I don't think it's any good at hiding hitches or rendering artifacts. There's no hidden agenda. Devs are using it because they like how it looks, or they think it comes close enough to simulating the look of something they like.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

Doesn't bother me too much but damn, that screen of Lords of the Fallen just reminded me of how ugly bad font choice in games really is. Sort your shit out, Devs.

 

[Durante]

Motion blur is post-processing and it's typically used to hide framerate issues. The only thing I can think that CA would be used for in regards to performance would be an alternative AA method.

An alternative AA method... that doesn't AA.

 

[FunkyDealer]

The Order 1886 actually hurt my eyes. I felt them tire from strain due to difficulty with focusing. I can only assume it must be due to post-process FX and CA.

 

[Persona7]

Looks like a bad AO implementation.

Reminds me of some of the really bad shadows in some areas in the last of us remastered.

 

[Theonik]

An alternative AA method... that doesn't AA.

An alternative AA method that makes aliasing worse even.

 

[Blackthorn]

I get CA in real life when wearing my glasses.

Half-Life 3 should max out the CA to really make us feel like Gordon Freeman.

 

[Summer Haze]

I've just returned Lords of the Fallen because it's a bit shit (and too hard for my aging skills) and I didn't notice one instance of this phenomenon.

Isn't it meant to be one of the worst offenders?

Y'all getting your panties in a twist over nothing as far as I can tell.

So everyone else is overreacting because you don't notice it? I'm so tired of comments like this on here. :/ People wouldn't be complaining if it didn't genuinely bother them. Remember - not everyone is the same.

And LofF had a CA toggle patched in if I remember correctly. So maybe it was set to off by default?