Support NeoGAF

[Caayn]

After plenty of Wii titles the first GameCube title appears on the 3DS, how does it hold up?

(There are some interesting titbits in the article and the video about how shadows and reflections are rendered on a GameCube)

Overall, there are a lot of changes to this port - lighting and shadows are handled differently, geometry is slightly reduced, and performance isn't perfect but at the same time, it almost feels like a full-on remake in some ways. All of the textures are completely new, the art direction differs, and everything has been remodelled. I think it's clear that 3DS and GameCube each have their own unique advantages then. Visual features that relied heavily on GameCube's unique hardware features needed to be stripped out and modified to work on 3DS in a different way - and it works. Compared to the various other Wii-to-3DS ports, however, I feel this does a much better job.

Grezzo has done a tremendous job in adapting the game to Nintendo's aging portable system and in the end, has produced one of the best-looking games on the system. The controls are also well implemented. If you're playing on a New 3DS, you get to use the nub just like the right stick on GameCube but this time, it can actually be inverted. You can also use the gyro feature to aim your vacuum up and down across all versions of 3DS hardware.

Article: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-luigis-mansion-3ds-tech-analysis

 

[Codes 208]

Im still baffled they chose to make this for the 3ds and not the switch. The co-op feature runs like shit

 

[LucidFeuer]

1. "Luigi's Mansion on Gamecube was conceive to be compatible with stereoscopic screens" excuse me what?
2. This 3DS demaster is horrible.
3. Where is Dark Moon remaster for Switch before the next Luigi's Mansion?

 

[Pot Meet Kettle]

1. "Luigi's Mansion on Gamecube was conceive to be compatible with stereoscopic screens" excuse me what?

GameCube hardware was supposed to ship with stereoscopic 3D, and Luigi's Mansion as a launch title to show it off, that much is true and already confirmed in an Iwata Asks years before this port was ever a thing. Those plans never panned out but some hardware components remain (and maybe the source code for the game with the 3D effects too?)

That would mean this 3DS port was their last chance to get that vision out in some form instead of rotting forever in their archives into probable obsolescence.

This always happens with Nintendo hardware by the way.

• The Switch for example still has lingering traces in the OS files for a VR mode, and the probable reason why it got discarded was the low resolution (too weak hardware?)
• the infrastructure for Nintendo's Wi-Fi online services still has support for an unreleased digital GBA distribution service for the Nintendo DS
• the 3DS has near full hardware compatibility with GBA games
• overseas GBA units had an online mode that was underused and shut down shortly after launch in Japan
• the virtual boy has link cable support, but the add-on was cancelled before console launch, though some games have it buried in their code. Console itself had a prototype that outputs RGB, and another that does that and head tracking, in 1995, but cost reduction measures made it what it was.
• the SNES has at least one game that expects the famicom's 3D glasses to be used in a controller port, but the add-on was cancelled in Japan after it caused seizures and bouts of dizziness, just like the Virtual Boy did later.

3. Where is Dark Moon remaster for Switch before the next Luigi's Mansion?

???
New games are always better than remasters.
The old games will always be on older hardware for anyone who wants to play them. I don't think someone can't enjoy a Fatal Frame 6 on Switch unless Tecmo wastes budget porting the whole series (first five games plus remake plus make that augmented reality spinoff work on consoles plus translations plus HD remake budget for geometry and textures) and spamming it on the eShop, for example.

 

[SoulUnison]

1. "Luigi's Mansion on Gamecube was conceive to be compatible with stereoscopic screens" excuse me what?
2. This 3DS demaster is horrible.
3. Where is Dark Moon remaster for Switch before the next Luigi's Mansion?

This sort of post makes me with there was a "Hate" button.

 

[Leonard Washington]

Looks like this is the ultimate rendition of this title then. And here was me thinking that only women vacuumed, but then Luigi ain't never been the alpha of the pack, has he?

 

[theclaw135]

GameCube hardware was supposed to ship with stereoscopic 3D, and Luigi's Mansion as a launch title to show it off, that much is true and already confirmed in an Iwata Asks years before this port was ever a thing. Those plans never panned out but some hardware components remain (and maybe the source code for the game with the 3D effects too?)

That would mean this 3DS port was their last chance to get that vision out in some form instead of rotting forever in their archives into probable obsolescence.

This always happens with Nintendo hardware by the way.

• The Switch for example still has lingering traces in the OS files for a VR mode, and the probable reason why it got discarded was the low resolution (too weak hardware?)
• the infrastructure for Nintendo's Wi-Fi online services still has support for an unreleased digital GBA distribution service for the Nintendo DS
• the 3DS has near full hardware compatibility with GBA games
• overseas GBA units had an online mode that was underused and shut down shortly after launch in Japan
• the virtual boy has link cable support, but the add-on was cancelled before console launch, though some games have it buried in their code. Console itself had a prototype that outputs RGB, and another that does that and head tracking, in 1995, but cost reduction measures made it what it was.
• the SNES has at least one game that expects the famicom's 3D glasses to be used in a controller port, but the add-on was cancelled in Japan after it caused seizures and bouts of dizziness, just like the Virtual Boy did later.

???
New games are always better than remasters.
The old games will always be on older hardware for anyone who wants to play them. I don't think someone can't enjoy a Fatal Frame 6 on Switch unless Tecmo wastes budget porting the whole series (first five games plus remake plus make that augmented reality spinoff work on consoles plus translations plus HD remake budget for geometry and textures) and spamming it on the eShop, for example.

It's more that games should be better documented and built on easier to port engines.
Buying old hardware gets gradually less welcoming as compatibility changes (light guns that need an older TV for instance), collectors drive up prices, parts wear out (like proprietary batteries), online services shut down (can't download essential patches)...

 

[Pot Meet Kettle]

It's more that games should be better documented and built on easier to port engines.

Your post reminds me of many rants about how incredibly insecure games built in Unity are.

FEZ's final puzzle was datamined this way from easily decompiled programming, against the choice of its developer (no matter how much his character is toxic). Game engines shouldn't even be this insecure, this is unheard of for most games save for stuff like Flash games, or fan reverse engineering projects spanning years. Here, everything is out, even the variable names. The company might have as well given up the game's source code and assets for asset flip developers to make use of, on Steam and Google Play. It's effectively the same result. Some companies add anti-tamper and DRM because they want to protect the executable of a well known easily decompilable engine.

These engines discourage better optimization as well, and give some middleware companies a lot of power over developers. There were cases where some developers were denied use of these engines after the fact. If the developer stops keeping up with new inhouse engines and keeps all its eggs in one basket, that's being dependent.

Buying old hardware gets gradually less welcoming as compatibility changes (light guns that need an older TV for instance), collectors drive up prices, parts wear out (like proprietary batteries), online services shut down (can't download essential patches)...

That's what emulation is for. The online situation was never fixed by the mass adoption of UE4/Unity either. The collectors and scalpers are still here for the Wii U and the NES Mini. The light guns and obsolete technology is inevitable, especially with Nintendo games, or any game really. Why not at this point "no sub-120 fps games should exist because they can't be played in VR"?

 

[RuhRo]

He keeps editorializing that the 3DS port looks better in many ways but then only shows comparisons that make it look significantly worse. Worse poly counts, blurrier textures (see the door comparison), no dynamic lighting (which was central to the Gamecube version’s atmosphere).

As an owner of both a 3DS and a Switch, I’d have been excited to replay an uncompromised port on Switch. But I won’t bother on 3DS.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

very cool, fascinating video. i love how DF dives right in and recognizes rendering techniques and the challenges involved in working w different hard ware. wonderful stuff.

i have to admit i've never played a Luigi's Mansion game before, but that mix of cartoony & spooky is too good to pass up. looking forward to the Switch game.

 

[dark10x]

He keeps editorializing that the 3DS port looks better in many ways but then only shows comparisons that make it look significantly worse. Worse poly counts, blurrier textures (see the door comparison), no dynamic lighting (which was central to the Gamecube version’s atmosphere).

As an owner of both a 3DS and a Switch, I’d have been excited to replay an uncompromised port on Switch. But I won’t bother on 3DS.

Dang, I guess I didn't quite get the point across. I actually think the GameCube version looks better overall.

That said, some of those points aren't quite right.

Texture quality is highly variable. In some scenes GC has an advantage, in others the 3DS does. There are a lot of blurry textures on GameCube but also on 3DS.

Secondly, the actual dynamic light source on 3DS is superior. They use a per-pixel light cone which the GameCube version lacks.

Also keep in mind that shadows on GC, while nice enough, only exists for select objects in the environment. It's not as robust a solution as Silent Hill 2, for instance. You can see that in the white secondary buffer shot in the video - only those objects are casting shadows in that scene.

The GC version also exhibits severe dithering in 480p likely due to its small frame-buffer. This was a common problem on GameCube.

Overall, though, I still prefer the look of the GC version. It has a better atmosphere and just feels "right". That said, I have to admit that the 3DS version looks really nice when played on a 3DS. Blowing it up via capture kind of hurts the presentation due to the low resolution.

 

[TLZ]

Dang, I guess I didn't quite get the point across. I actually think the GameCube version looks better overall.

That said, some of those points aren't quite right.

Texture quality is highly variable. In some scenes GC has an advantage, in others the 3DS does. There are a lot of blurry textures on GameCube but also on 3DS.

Secondly, the actual dynamic light source on 3DS is superior. They use a per-pixel light cone which the GameCube version lacks.

Also keep in mind that shadows on GC, while nice enough, only exists for select objects in the environment. It's not as robust a solution as Silent Hill 2, for instance. You can see that in the white secondary buffer shot in the video - only those objects are casting shadows in that scene.

The GC version also exhibits severe dithering in 480p likely due to its small frame-buffer. This was a common problem on GameCube.

Overall, though, I still prefer the look of the GC version. It has a better atmosphere and just feels "right". That said, I have to admit that the 3DS version looks really nice when played on a 3DS. Blowing it up via capture kind of hurts the presentation due to the low resolution.

I like how you took the time to respond to criticism, calmly, without getting wound up.

And that door knob scene, man it looks awful on the 3ds lol. I know it's just a door knob, but hey, when it was highlighted like that it looked bad.

 

[jufonuk]

Playing dark moon again before getting this. How does it compare ? One massive mansion as opposed to many mine rooms?

Anyone played both ? What would you say is the better game ?

 

[Stuart360]

Gamecube version looks miles better imo. I always thought the 3DS was more or less Gamecube power, i guess not.

 

[jufonuk]

Gamecube version looks miles better imo. I always thought the 3DS was more or less Gamecube power, i guess not.

I think it is just under GameCube power but has better shaders or renderers or something I can’t remeber exactly. I think in terms of pure cpu power it’s the GameCube but the 3ds has some tricks up its sleeve to pull off great looking games

 

[Codes 208]

I think it is just under GameCube power but has better shaders or renderers or something I can’t remeber exactly. I think in terms of pure cpu power it’s the GameCube but the 3ds has some tricks up its sleeve to pull off great looking games

Sounds about right, Id say OoT and MM looked pretty close to gamecube quality.

Plus pokemon in.hd via emulator looks on par with pokemon colleseum (though this could just be a preference in model and artstyle)

 

[TLZ]

D dark10x
This could be an idea for a Digital Foundry video comparing handhelds that are said to be of certain console power with said consoles. For example, the Gameboy is a SNES, the DS is a N64/PS1, the 3DS is a GameCube, and so on.

 

[v1oz]

Sounds about right, Id say OoT and MM looked pretty close to gamecube quality.

They were not even close. Look at Skyward Sword GCN.

 

[dark10x]

D dark10x
This could be an idea for a Digital Foundry video comparing handhelds that are said to be of certain console power with said consoles. For example, the Gameboy is a SNES, the DS is a N64/PS1, the 3DS is a GameCube, and so on.

Yeah, I like that idea a lot. I’ve been thinking of doing something like that but need to find a good way to capture regular DS!

 

[nkarafo]

Looks significantly worse on almost all aspects. John seems very generous with it for some reason. There's a lack of real time shadows casting, lower poly counts and much worse looking ghosts here. He also praises the mirror reflections but there's still something off about them. The original mirrors have a slight blur effect that makes them look more eerie, which is another little detail that adds to the game's atmosphere.

There are maybe some better looking scenes here and there because of the changed lighting and maybe some better textures (but mostly worse ones) but overall it's just a cut down version.

 

[TLZ]

Yeah, I like that idea a lot. I’ve been thinking of doing something like that but need to find a good way to capture regular DS!

Nice. I hope you somehow pull it off

And I meant Gameboy Advance btw, being a SNES, oops.

 

[Leonard Washington]

This thread made me remember how much fun the GC was. Sure waiting ages for games and not getting any of the mainstream releases on there so having to play Auto Modelista instead of Outrun 2 and True Crimes LA instead of GTA was a hint of whats to come but from a sheer aesthetics point alone this:

Was a thing of beauty and virtually silent too in contrast to the hulking Xbox plus the Wavebird was all that and when the games were good they really were quite good.

 

[Camaway2]

This thread made me remember how much fun the GC was. Sure waiting ages for games and not getting any of the mainstream releases on there so having to play Auto Modelista instead of Outrun 2 and True Crimes LA instead of GTA was a hint of whats to come but from a sheer aesthetics point alone this:

Was a thing of beauty and virtually silent too in contrast to the hulking Xbox plus the Wavebird was all that and when the games were good they really were quite good.

A thing of beauty

 

[IbizaPocholo]

 

[Codes 208]

They were not even close. Look at Skyward Sword GCN.

Ah yes. the gamecube version of Skyward Sword is my favorite.