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[Bojji]

 

[Fake]

Meanwhile, at Sony...

 

[Bojji]

Meanwhile...

Sony on PS3 emulation:

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

Meanwhile, at Sony...

Woke slop every person making these games and the people who green lit them should be fired and never in the games industry, they are clueless fucks and are a cancer to video games.

Fuck you Herman Hulst.

 

[kevboard]

 

[Vick]

As expected, tons of issues when dealing with Cell usage from developers at the time.

But doesn't change the fact that a custom, dedicated emulation could achieve wonders even for those games. Especially when PS5 Tempest 3D AudioTech itself was already conceived to function almost identically to the Cell SPU. They could obviously do something similar again directly suited for this purpuse.

Hopefully next gen.. I love PS1 emulation on PS5. And PS2 as well has gotten great recently.

No surprise Killzone 3 runs much better than Killzone 2 either. Always felt the sequel looked much more crude.

 

[Durin]

As expected, tons of issues when dealing with Cell usage from developers at the time.

It was always gonna be harder when the bigger games on the system started using the Cell SPUs to run graphics code on them to make up for the GPU.

 

[jm89]

Who knows maybe with nishino in charge we might get some progress with PS3 BC, Jimbo made the famous comment about "who plays these old games", so maybe it wasn't seen as important.

But I'm not holding my breath on that.

The dream is getting the PS3 store integrated with the current ps store.

 

[Bojji]

 

[Sohurmk833]

Imagine if Sony didn't piss away 4 billion on Bungie, Concord and the like and instead worked on bringing all their PS3 classics to PS5 in glorious 4k/60fps. Wouldn't even have cost 1/10th of that sum and deliver 10 times the enjoyment for their fans.

 

[Memati187]

Imagine if Sony didn't piss away 4 billion on Bungie, Concord and the like and instead worked on bringing all their PS3 classics to PS5 in glorious 4k/60fps. Wouldn't even have cost 1/10th of that sum and deliver 10 times the enjoyment for their fans.

That requires basic thinking, which sony couldn't acquire yet.

 

[Wolzard]

It would be interesting if they tested Xenia as well, although it's a bit more difficult to run.

 

[Bojji]

It would be interesting if they tested Xenia as well, although it's a bit more difficult to run.

Maybe easier, it's more GPU limited (vs. CPU).

I don't get why Richard didn't show SPU light games targeting 60fps. Like Drakendgard 3:



HD should also be able to run closer to 60:



3600 is a bit better than PS5 CPU but it's not mindblowing difference.

 

[Aldynes]

Call me crazy ( or retarded ) but BC with FPS boost / rez upgrade is what made me choose an Xbox Series X in 2021 instead of a PS5 since I don't have a PC, Splinter Cell series, Ninja Gaiden Black... It's a shame that Sony even teased multiple supported older systems for BC but in the end we got just PS4 for true BC and a few older titles for PS1 BC and PS2 BC only in digital sale...

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

Cell = Legend

 

[Bojji]

Cell = Legend

I mean... that's the main reason we don't have official BC.

 

[vodka-bull]

RPCS3 keeps improving, Steam Deck is absolutely capable of emulating a lot of PS3 games. And if not I still have a PS3 slim.

But it's nice to see, again, that Sony is a piece of shit company. For the 100th or so time…

 

[Seomel]

Call me crazy ( or retarded ) but BC with FPS boost / rez upgrade is what made me choose an Xbox Series X in 2021 instead of a PS5 since I don't have a PC, Splinter Cell series, Ninja Gaiden Black... It's a shame that Sony even teased multiple supported older systems for BC but in the end we got just PS4 for true BC and a few older titles for PS1 BC and PS2 BC only in digital sale...

This is why pc is always best option. Sure xbox has better bc, but its still very limited and small part of available library.

 

[Bojji]

This is why pc is always best option. Sure xbox has better bc, but its still very limited and small part of available library.

Unlimited BC on PC, with 120FPS+ 4K+ support.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

I want remasters and remakes.

I prefer PS5 graphics in 4K any day over PS3 graphics in 4K.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Now I want to play Motorstorm. This looks really fun.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Imagine if Sony didn't piss away 4 billion on Bungie, Concord and the like and instead worked on bringing all their PS3 classics to PS5 in glorious 4k/60fps. Wouldn't even have cost 1/10th of that sum and deliver 10 times the enjoyment for their fans.

Sony doesn't give a dam about its legacy, that's why the PS2 back catalogue om the PS4 was soo woeful, and why they abandoned the idea of letting PS3 play PS1 and PS2 games..

 

[RedC]

Spoiler: Summary

Digital Foundry — PS3 Emulation on PS5 via RPCS3 Summary

---

Core Premise

Digital Foundry tested:

• RPCS3 running natively under Linux on PS5

Goal:

• determine how viable true PS3 emulation is on PS5 hardware

---

Main Takeaway

GPU Power = Massive Success

PS5's GPU brute force allows:

• huge resolution boosts
• cleaner image quality
• better filtering
• stable rendering in many games

---

CPU Power = Main Bottleneck

The major issue:

• PS5's Zen 2 CPU struggles emulating:
  • PS3's Cell SPUs

Result:

• later PS3 games heavily utilizing Cell architecture perform poorly

DF's conclusion:

• PS5 GPU is massively overpowered for PS3 emulation
• but CPU side is often insufficient

---

Why PS3 Emulation Is So Difficult

The Cell Processor Problem

PS3's:

• Cell CPU architecture

was:

• extremely unconventional
• highly specialized

Developers increasingly pushed:

• graphics tasks
• post-processing
• anti-aliasing
• simulation workloads

onto:

• SPUs (Synergistic Processing Units)

---

Modern CPUs Struggle To Emulate This

Even modern x86 CPUs:

• struggle reproducing Cell behavior efficiently

DF says:

• PS5's cut-down Zen 2 CPU is especially weak for RPCS3 standards

---

RPCS3 Running Natively On PS5

Important Detail

RPCS3 here:

• is NOT running through Proton

Instead:

• native Linux application
• using RADV Vulkan driver

Meaning:

• this is close to raw hardware capability testing

---

Early PS3 Games Run Extremely Well

---

Ridge Racer 7

Results

• Runs beautifully
• Native:
  • 4K (2160p)
• Originally:
  • 1080p

---

Reason It Works

Launch-era games:

• didn't heavily stress SPUs

Meaning:

• GPU scaling dominates
• PS5 brute forces visuals easily

DF calls this:

• "what we want from PS3 emulation on PS5"

---

Resistance: Fall of Man

Performance

• Huge resolution boosts possible
• Runs well overall

---

Issue

• uneven frame pacing

Still:

• considered very playable

---

Heavenly Sword

Original PS3 Version

• terrible tearing
• unstable framerate

---

PS5 Emulation

• nearly locked 30 FPS
• running at:
  • 5K internal resolution

That's:

• 16x original pixel count increase

DF calls this:

• "pretty hilarious" due to massive visual upgrade

---

Where Things Start Falling Apart

---

Grand Theft Auto IV

Main Problem

Rockstar heavily utilized:

• Cell SPUs

---

Result

PS5 emulation performs:

• worse than original PS3 hardware

Even:

• massive resolution increases barely affect performance

Meaning:

• CPU limitation
• NOT GPU limitation

---

Key Finding

DF says:

• PS5's Zen 2 CPU simply isn't strong enough for heavy SPU emulation

---

Metal Gear Solid 4

Bad News

Performance:

• significantly worse than original PS3

---

Reason

MGS4 aggressively leveraged:

• Cell architecture
• SPU workloads

---

Additional Problem

Game uses:

• double-buffer VSync

Meaning:

• if emulator misses:
  • 30 FPS
• performance collapses to:
  • 20 FPS
  • then 15 FPS

---

DF Conclusion

MGS4 desperately needs:

• actual remaster
• native port

because:

• PS5 emulation isn't sufficient

---

God of War Ascension

One Of PS3's Biggest Technical Showcases

Heavily SPU-dependent.

---

MLAA Problem

Game's MLAA anti-aliasing:

• consumed enormous SPU time

Turning it off:

• improves emulator performance significantly

Still:

• original PS3 hardware outperforms PS5 emulation overall

---

Killzone Results Are Fascinating

---

Killzone 2

Performance

• poor under emulation
• struggles badly

---

Reason

Killzone 2 pushes:

• lots of post-processing through SPUs

Higher resolutions:

• actually increase SPU emulation workload

Meaning:

• raising resolution can LOWER framerate

---

Killzone 3

Shockingly Better

After disabling MLAA:

• PS5 emulator can often hit:
  • locked 30 FPS
  • even at 4K

---

Surprise

DF expected:

• later Guerrilla game
• would be HARDER to emulate

Instead:

• Killzone 3 runs much better than Killzone 2

---

Still Not Perfect

Heavy enemy encounters:

• can still tank performance into 20s

---

MotorStorm Trilogy Results

---

MotorStorm 1

• runs surprisingly well
• stable 1440p achievable

---

MotorStorm Pacific Rift

• comfortably runs at:
  • 4K
• major visual improvement

---

MotorStorm Apocalypse

After disabling MLAA:

• stable 4K 30 FPS mostly achievable

Some:

• stutters
• shadow artifacts
  remain.

DF says:

• all three MotorStorm games could likely work well on an official PS5 emulator

---

Major Discovery — PS3 GPU Was Often The Weak Link

DF repeatedly highlights:

• many PS3 games were GPU-limited originally

Meaning:

• PS5's GPU completely obliterates those bottlenecks

But:

• Cell/SPU-heavy games become CPU-limited instead.

---

Why Sony Probably Never Released PS3 Emulation On PS5

DF conclusion:

• if Sony could have done it properly
• they probably already would have

Main reason:

• PS5 CPU not strong enough for universal high-quality emulation

---

Future Outlook — PS6 / Project Helix

DF Prediction

True high-quality PS3 emulation may finally become viable on:

• next-generation hardware

Specifically:

• Zen 6-based CPUs

---

Project Helix Speculation

If future Xbox-like "open" PlayStation hardware appears:

• RPCS3 itself may potentially arrive unofficially before Sony delivers native emulation.

---

Final Conclusion

Best Case Scenario

Early/lighter PS3 games:

• look phenomenal
• scale beautifully
• often outperform original hardware massively

---

Worst Case Scenario

Late-generation Cell-heavy games:

• still cripple modern CPUs
• often run worse than original PS3

---

Digital Foundry's Overall Take

Main takeaway:

• PS5 GPU has MORE than enough horsepower for PS3 emulation
• but PS3's bizarre Cell architecture continues haunting emulation efforts nearly 20 years later

 

[Drew1440]

I hope we get a PS3 classics catalogue at some point in the PS5's lifecycle. The streaming service is always busy when I try to play a PS3 game, so there is a lot of interest for those games. Games like the Resistance series, Motorstorm and Killzone are franchises stuck on the PS3.

 

[Vick]

I want remasters and remakes.

Remakes made for modern audience?

The more of a joke the industry becomes, the more valuable platforms able to present the real games of the past at their best become.
PC and Xbox are both way above Sony in this regard.

Let's hope for next gen. The fact Cerny cares a lot is a good sign, but meaningless unless the company decides it's worth the effort. And about the graphics, I think you'd be surprised by some of those games once seen in 4K, 5K or 8K with AF x16. This is GoW III in simple 1080p and MSAA x2 on PS4, imagine it running at four times the resolution and 16x AF:

Spoiler

Now imagine plaing Ascension as well at 5K.
Even GoW games from PS2 and PSP that were remastered on PS3 look very pleasant at high resolutions.. these are all games with content you wouldn't be able to see in a million years in these sick, insane times.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Remakes made for modern audience?

The more of a joke the industry becomes, the more valuable platforms able to present the real games of the past at their best become.
PC and Xbox are both way above Sony in this regard.

I think you'd be surprised by some of those games, visually, once seen in 4K, 5K or 8K with AF X16. This is GoW III in simple 1080p and MSAA x2 on PS4, imagine it running at four times the resolution:

Spoiler

Now imagine plaing Ascension as well at 5K.
Even GoW games from PS2 and PSP that were remastered on PS3 at insane resolutions look very pleasant at high resolutions.. these are all games with content you wouldn't be able to see in a million years in these sick, insane times.

Don't we already have GOW3 at 4K? And people are excited about the upcoming GOW remakes, and I'm one of them

 

[Fbh]

Crazy that devices such as PC and PS5 now offer more access and compatibility with PS3 games than the PS5.

 

[Vick]

Don't we already have GOW3 at 4K?

No, unfortunately. 1080p MSAA x 2.

And people are excited about the upcoming GOW remakes, and I'm one of them

I was too. Until I realized this today:

I just found out Shannon Studstill hasn't been the head of Santa Monica Studio since 2020..

Sony Santa Monica Names Longtime Vet as New Studio Head

Yumi Yang, a 19-year PlayStation veteran, has taken over as head of Sony Santa Monica following the departure of longtime studio director Shannon Studstill.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Sons of Sparta writing was the same cringefest that Ragnarök was.. even if SSM wasn't directly responsable, they still supervised. Everything this studio has done since Shannon departure has seen a colossal drop of tone, integrity and writing quality.

Hope is lost indeed..

 

[FoxMcChief]

I really just want Killzone 2 and Killzone 3 on my PS5. Like, I'd be the fool that would pay full price for a simple remaster of them both separately. They my favorite Sony games ever.

 

[RedC]

Remakes made for modern audience?

The more of a joke the industry becomes, the more valuable platforms able to present the real games of the past at their best become.
PC and Xbox are both way above Sony in this regard.

Let's hope for next gen, the fact Cerny cares a lot is a good sign, but meaningless unless the company decides it's worth the effort. And about the graphics, I think you'd be surprised by some of those games, visually, once seen in 4K, 5K or 8K with AF X16. This is GoW III in simple 1080p and MSAA x2 on PS4, imagine it running at four times the resolution and 16x AF:

Spoiler

Now imagine plaing Ascension as well at 5K.
Even GoW games from PS2 and PSP that were remastered on PS3 look very pleasant at high resolutions.. these are all games with content you wouldn't be able to see in a million years in these sick, insane times.

Plus, re-rendering the original games at higher resolutions and frame rates preserves their art direction, visual style, lighting, and overall presentation as originally intended.

 

[Fafalada]

I mean... that's the main reason we don't have official BC.

Official Emulation yes - but Sony decided to kill BC for anything pre PS4 back in 2010 or so.

 

[Don Carlo]

Motorstorm looks really fun.

 

[Lokaum D+]

But, it ll run on 8gb cards ?

 

[MazingerDUDE]

I just found out Shannon Studstill hasn't been the head of Santa Monica Studio since 2020..

Sony Santa Monica Names Longtime Vet as New Studio Head

Yumi Yang, a 19-year PlayStation veteran, has taken over as head of Sony Santa Monica following the departure of longtime studio director Shannon Studstill.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Sons of Sparta writing was the same cringefest that Ragnarök was.. even if SSM wasn't directly responsable, they still supervised. Everything this studio has done since Shannon departure has seen a colossal drop of tone, integrity and writing quality.

Hope is lost indeed..

 

[Kerotan]

Imagine if Sony didn't piss away 4 billion on Bungie, Concord and the like and instead worked on bringing all their PS3 classics to PS5 in glorious 4k/60fps. Wouldn't even have cost 1/10th of that sum and deliver 10 times the enjoyment for their fans.

Sony could have done that regardless of Bungie. They're probably saving it as a selling point for PS6.

 

[Gitaroo]

As cool as they are, I still prefer they all get proper remaster treatment with actually QOL improvement. Sony should have kept Bluepoint around, a Ueda collection which they already have experience with, plus other studios IP that Nixxes hasn't touch could probably keep yhem and Nixxes busy for awhile now that they are backing out of PC space.

 

[squallbr]

PS3 is the best Sony console but you guys are not ready for this conversation

 

[LordCBH]

Hermen Hulst (Channeling Jimothy Ryan): "why would anyone want to play those old games?"

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

Why can't we have a new Motorstorm? Herman? HERMAN?

 

[Physiognomonics]

PS3 is the best Sony console but you guys are not ready for this conversation

PS3 has the best Playstation games, yes. It's definitely not their best hardware.

 

[Radical_3d]

Sony could easily reproduce this, and surpass it with minimal investment. They could fix the SPE calls outside the CPU to the GPU or even the tempest engine that have actual SPE cores (and you're not using Spatial Audio in Killzone 2). It's just that Xbox gave us god-tier backwards compatibility and we didn't bought them. And that they are assholes. They might even have a functional version but they are holding it to find a way to monetise it. Fuck you, Hermen.

 

[Baemono]

and why they abandoned the idea of letting PS3 play PS1 and PS2 games..

all PS3 could run PS1 games, even the ultra-slim

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hopefully Sony invest in this to make it official. Seems like it wouldnt be too much trouble.

 

[YCoCg]

Fuck you, Hermen

Nah it was Jim Ryan who shit talked playing older games when asked about backwards compatibility, he said something like he rewatched videos of older Gran Turismo games and questioned why anyone would want to play something like that now.

 

[Moses85]

Who knows maybe with nishino in charge we might get some progress with PS3 BC, Jimbo made the famous comment about "who plays these old games", so maybe it wasn't seen as important.

But I'm not holding my breath on that.

The dream is getting the PS3 store integrated with the current ps store.

Paying for games I already own 1-2 times?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Hermen Hulst (Channeling Jimothy Ryan): "why would anyone want to play those old games?"

Cuz people like Emulation mostly because of the price ($0)

I mean the Steam Deck is basically a Pirate Switch/Nintendo console.

 

[sono]

Some of those ps tripple games are epic
Motorstorm trilogy
Killzone 2 and 3
Resistance fall of man 1 is god tier
Heavenly sword is quirky genius
Mgs 4

 

[Badlucktroll]

so it can run small and early ps3 games ok but it struggles with later spe heavy games?

 

[Fafalada]

all PS3 could run PS1 games, even the ultra-slim

Sure, but so can the ps2 games, they just decided to block them.
PS3 was an odd place, at launch ps2 BC added close to 150$ to BOM and on top of it was detracting from ps3 software sales.
They could absolutely bring back disc BC but the financial upside for it didn't exist, and likewise why ps1 promptly got killed off in the follow up

Now, sure most of us would accept digital only ps3 BC too, but I suspect distribution rights would be a far cry from the library available on the cloud today so...

 

[Fake]

so it can run small and early ps3 games ok but it struggles with later spe heavy games?

Games that have heavy use of CELL cpu.