Baemono
Gold Member
Early PS3 had PS2 hardware in it, they removed it for later models (and made them cheaper).
You're kinda rewriting history
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DF: PS3 Emulation On PS5 Linux Tested: Killzone, MotorStorm, MGS 4, Ridge Racer 7 + Many More
You're kinda rewriting history
SplunkyMunkey
Member
Since playstation 6 will have newer cpu and gpu i think sony should have something similar to helix a dual boot. Ps6 boot to play your ps6 games and a Linux boot to play all ps1 , ps2 , ps3 , ps4 , and ps5 with higher resolution, fps and maybe update to handle RT and path tracing on older games take old school doom for instance
Bojji
Member
They stopped caring about BC with PS4, there was no good reason to abandon PS1 and PS2 emulation on PS4, it obviously couldn't run PS3 games but older consoles? No CD drive is the problem for PS1 games but they had tons of PS1 games on PSN at this point.
But remakes usually change some things for the worse and include modern sensitivities. I can't wait to see how they massacre my boy - God of War.
They can make much better emulator than RCPS3 guys, they don't have to reverse engineer stuff.
MOST PS3 games are SPU light, you can run them even in 60fps on PS5, Richard mostly testes heavier games here. I was playing many PS3 games in 60fps on a fucking 2600K:
PS5 CPU is much stronger than that.
Aldynes
Member
It's even worse than that, in US / JAP the OG phat PS3 60GO was indeed that way but in EU they removed it and made it software based which was problematic with some games, my copy of KOF 98' UDM was nearly unplayable due to FPS dipping into sub 30, somehow that CELL processor couldn't handle a 2D game...
Bojji
Member
First wave (USA, JP) - hardware BC
Second wave (EU and later USA/JAP models) - partial software BC
Third wave (and later) - no BC for PS2
PS1 always had software BC. With PS4 sony decided to put Jim into postion of power:
Baemono
Gold Member
He has a point thoughFirst wave (USA, JP) - hardware BC
Second wave (EU and later USA/JAP models) - partial software BC
Third wave (and later) - no BC for PS2
PS1 always had software BC. With PS4 sony decided to put Jim into postion of power:
Bojji
Member
You mean, selling all those games on PSN wouldn't make them money?
What he said was just excuses because they couldn't do (the most relevant) PS3 BC. Look at MS stance pre 360 BC and after it:
asdasdasdbb
Member
And the BC that the PS3 had was mainly so that early adopters had something else to play/could access the PS2 titles that were still being released.
It's pretty questionable how well Sony's old games would sell without some sort of remaster.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I don't think they want just enjoyment of their fans. Pretty sure they want fans money first and fans playing old stuff through BC that don't make them "new money" is not a good business for them.
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Bojji
Member
Some old games are stil selling on PC for 20-25 years.
They shipped an emulator that ran over 300 games officially and something in the thousands unofficially. On every ps3.
If they wanted it, they could have disc based BC, they just chose not to.
They stopped caring with the launch of Vita where only after public backlash they backtracked it...somewhat(and only because Vita was tanking so they were desperate to throw anything at the wall).
But even before when decision was made to never restore ps2 bc and instead make it psn exclusive, which ps4 inherited ofc.
By the time ps4 launched they were wholly ignoring bc of any kind, and MS helped by doing the exact same at launch. I suspect the only reason we eventually got any classic support was that MS forced them to rethink... a little, but very late.
Its pretty obvious that it could run some of them. And when PS2 received a grand total of 50 games on ps4, its hard to argue ps3 couldn't have similar number as well.
It just wasn't part of any business strategy, period.
Bojji
Member
Even PS3 had software PS2 emulator that could run some games (on every model of PS3), there are hundreds of PS2 releases on PSN only available on PS3.
But PS3 games on PS4 are not possible at all, Jaguar war BARELY any faster than Cell and to emulate you need several times the power of the old hardware (even PS5 CPU can do it only with Cell light games).
Edit: Sorry, jaguar was slower lol:
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There are hundreds of ps3 games that barely touch the SPEs, including most of things released in 2007*.
Including psn releases i have no doubt more than 50 could run just fine.
Not without effort sure, and probably never make the money back but then that's what limited these 'bc' services always, they aren't exactly great revenue streams.
*I can literally run many of those at 5x the framerate(possibly more) on a modern handheld.
And lest we forget, BC needs to only run somewhere close to original speeds. Like the 360 emulator for x1 was far from perfect in every title and most ppl were just fine with it.
Baemono
Gold Member
You're right, I missed their attempt to do full software BC
Baemono
Gold Member
You mean, selling all those games on PSN wouldn't make them money?
What he said was just excuses because they couldn't do (the most relevant) PS3 BC. Look at MS stance pre 360 BC and after it:
Sony's CELL was a mess, so to transfer it to x86 was a hassle (still is today). Microsoft not doing BC was just them wanting to make more money. Then they backtracked.
genesisblock
Member
PS3 emulation is a goddamn miracle even in the realm of emulations. The fact that it work well as it is based on hobbyists reverse engineering the entire thing from scratch is a t technical marvel that should be studied by pretty much in any computer science field.
And Sony, with all it's resources is unable to create their own bespoke emulation with all the rights and documentation for nearly 2 fucking decades and can't come up with a backwards compatibility solution. But looking their recent output in the games, I don't think they're ever going to be great as they once were.
And Sony, with all it's resources is unable to create their own bespoke emulation with all the rights and documentation for nearly 2 fucking decades and can't come up with a backwards compatibility solution. But looking their recent output in the games, I don't think they're ever going to be great as they once were.
Wolzard
Member
Maybe easier, it's more GPU limited (vs. CPU).
I don't get why Richard didn't show SPU light games targeting 60fps. Like Drakendgard 3:
HD should also be able to run closer to 60:
3600 is a bit better than PS5 CPU but it's not mindblowing difference.
The Xenia emulator is more demanding on the GPU. I tested it with a 3060 Ti, which is more powerful than the PS5, and it was only usable at 720p or 1440p in less demanding titles. 4K was unfeasible.
Even PS3 had software PS2 emulator that could run some games (on every model of PS3), there are hundreds of PS2 releases on PSN only available on PS3.
But PS3 games on PS4 are not possible at all, Jaguar war BARELY any faster than Cell and to emulate you need several times the power of the old hardware (even PS5 CPU can do it only with Cell light games).
Edit: Sorry, jaguar was slower lol:
It would have been possible if Sony had used the same procedure as Microsoft. Instead of emulating, they could have virtualized the PS3 system with the PS4 hardware. But Sony doesn't have the same expertise, Microsoft does because this is widely used in cloud environments on Azure.
boomtimesbaby
Neo Member
The PS5 is 100% capable of emulating the PS3 it's just that BC is just not worth it. There's no money in it. MS discontinued it. Nintendo and SONY put it behind a subscription paywall charging an extra premium and drip feed these games REALLY slow. a remaster or a remake actually generates hype and in the case of a remaster you're basically selling the same game for like $40 to $60 while with these BC solutions people will be extremely stingy with even $20. Not to metion the amount of Q&A you'd need for say buildings up the shader cache.
Jim Ryan was in the right.
Jim Ryan was in the right.
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Bojji
Member
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Badlucktroll
Member
they should throw everyone a bone and emulate ridge racer and resistance fom and dead nation and stuff on ps5
yogaflame
Member
Maybe this time finally ps6 can do it and enhance. We are in era of ML Ai in the first place.
Vick
Member
You can also purchase those PSX and PS2 games on PS5.
Are there some still behind Plus Premium?
True, but even if limited in reach compared to a Remaster announcement, the mere availability of those games still generate excitement and appreaciation.
I was so happy when they upgraded Jak & Daxter to the PS5 version. It's such a great version of the game now, much higher res than the PS3 Remaster.
I feel win is an understatement, PS3 games on PS6 at native 4K and high framerate would be the best thing ever.
Bojji
Member
You can buy them, they even started converting PS3 (PSP too?) licenses if you had them.
But it's still like super small % of games, compared to even PS3 support on PSN.
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Fake
Member
Bojji
Member
And he didn't even test all those games that would run in the perfect 60fps.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Those are probably being actively maintained though with fixes and possibly new levels, etc.
Almost like if Sony were to bother making native builds of games. That obviously would be more effort to port PS3 games over.
Bojji
Member
Are they? No.
All those games are unchanged since 2001, 2005, 2006, 2008. GOG was build on idea of selling even older stuff.
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