Support NeoGAF

[Rikkori]

Actually : reconstructed 1440p, with checkerboard techniques pushed to 2160p.

Guess who will try to spin it as 1080p. :/

Do you know what reconstructed means? It means it starts from a lower resolution than the one to which you reconstruct, hence 1080p.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I have read today. This claim is based on what.......one game from a smallish studio?

I've said 'since UE5 demo'. Besides, we can name plenty of other examples with what the PS5 has shown.

Yes, and Xbox Series X is a 756p 30fps machine?

Do you realize how is so unfair judge a hardware by one specific game?

Returnal was made on "generic" UE4. Destruction Allstars, Sackboy, Gears 5, all these games are made in this engine, and doesn't hit perfect native 4k resolution.

you

Don't own an Xbox, so what you're saying about it makes no difference to me. I don't think the XSX will run away with it anyway, the difference is small between the two and will mostly manifest in resolution differences due to CU count (and thus the specific optimisation points for both). XSX might push itself closer to 1440p 60 fps but not really.

I'm saying, since UE5 was not even 1440p stable, at 30 fps, it is clear that the PS5 for 60fps is more a 1080p console than anything else. Only to the extent to which games are very limited or very specifically tailored (like a ND project) will it go for that 1440p 60 fps.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Looks like something that could have been done on PS4.

Hello?. I never said that this could have been done on ps4.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Dumb people for sure.

Indeed, but it's going to happen every time DF analysis a first party MS or Sony title.. better get used to it

 

[SLB1904]

Indeed, but it's going to happen every time DF analysis a first party XB or Sony title.. better get used to it

It's so annoying. And they do on purpose.

 

[geordiemp]

There are other games (Marvel Avengers and Control) that are pushing particles like this. Let's not ignore the multiplats.

Not played avengers, Control looked great but I tired of the combat loop half way through, but agree on your point.

Posters forget how taxing effects are, rememeber the torch in Valhalla tanking XSX frame rate.....and in this game throwing neons, particles everywhere its going to be taxing.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I remember when Alan wake was dragged over the coals for 540p plus many more. You know what, you miss out on some amazing games if you obsess over graphics and resolutions.

Looking forward to watching the video on my 65" CX and ultimately being impressed. Yes 1080p seems low for this generation but I need to understand the reasons behind it before casting it off.

If its due to truelly next gen features such as raytracing then we have all the reasons we need.

 

[skit_data]

I platted Control on PS5 and RT mode kinda plays like shit. I recommend the 60fps mode.

I agree, also I guess you haven’t plated the base PS4 version. I did and i assure you, that one was worse

Edit: Im not saying all 30fps games will be like Control going forward, all 30fps games aren’t created equal. Controls 30fps mode feels off for some reason that is not explicitly related to framrate, idk exactly what it is but I suspect its more related to a mix of extreme motion blur and control input lag

 

[Md Ray]

I hope they can fix the framerate, an ultra fast paced tps bullet hell roguelite is literally the last genre where you want dips of 10 frames with hell on screen.

oh don't u VoRRy vRr will fix those frame dROps when it arRIVes...

Spoiler

 

[Pantz]

It has my PS5 fan rattling a bit.

 

[lukilladog]

I bet you know since your reading comprehension sucks.

 

[Reindeer]

1080p reconstructed to 1440p checkerboarded to 4K upscaled to 8K and supersampled to 16K....

Jokes aside, consoles need something like DLSS (maybe Pro consoles will have it?), TAA upscaling is garbage.

 

[Loope]

It's so annoying. And they do on purpose.

hmm. Let's see what happens when an xbox game does it.

 

[DonkeyKong]

It's so annoying. And they do on purpose.

It is, I can only imagine the carnage the Halo Infinite DF will be..

 

[Warnen]

If you stop shitposting i guarantee you no one will bother.

Sorry for hoping Sony’s premier studio would do a better job with the PS5…

 

[SkylineRKR]

I agree, also I guess you haven’t plated the base PS4 version. I did and i assure you, that one was worse

No I quit it about 4 hours in when it was a Now freebie. Waited it out when the PS5 version was announced. On Pro it also tanked to single digit fps. Even RT mode is vastly superior to last-gen in the sense that the 30fps always holds up. But compared to 60 the aiming and all is just twice as hard.

 

[GymWolf]

I do and its kinda painful my Series S does it and more powerful PS5 don't. I don't get the problem either, its supposed to be supported from hardware level.

Yeah, i think they only need to patch vrr in.

They are probably optimizing the process.

 

[Rikkori]

I think Controls Performance/RT mode is a good summary about what to expect in general when it comes to res/performance this gen in consoles.

1440p 60fps
1440p 30fps with more costly forms of RT implemented

Im all happy with that, and falls in line with my expectations when the consoles specs were announced

Edit: Varying forms of upscaling to reach a 4k image not accounted for

Tbf, Control is last-gen game, with no RT for 60 fps, and lowest settings (vs PC equivalents). And it still doesn't hold steady 60.

 

[Thirty7ven]

When Resident Evil 4 came out everyone was in awe of the visuals, the fire effects omg. What happened to gamers that now they pay more attention to words on a box instead of the visuals on the screen?

 

[Reindeer]

When Resident Evil 4 came out everyone was in awe of the visuals, the fire effects omg. What happened to gamers that now they pay more attention to words on a box instead of the visuals on the screen?

The visuals on screen in this game don't look all that next gen, I mean Ratchet looks a whole generation ahead of this.

 

[Krizalidx11]

They didn't push the draw distance that much, but those gate open fast

 

[kyliethicc]

I hope ND prioritizes framerate this time as well, as Insomniac does right now.

Any Sony 1st party game that wants to push max visual fidelity will have a 30 FPS mode.

Spidey, Ratchet, Horizon, God of War, Naughty Dog games, etc.. they all do / will have 30 Hz modes for showing off better visuals on PS5.

Like the new Ratchet & Clank gameplay from yesterday looked gorgeous... and was 30 FPS. But it has a 60 FPS mode, too.

Other games like GT7, Demon's Souls remake, Returnal, Sackboy, etc.. these games were built around 60 FPS.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

I'm saying, since UE5 was not even 1440p stable, at 30 fps, it is clear that the PS5 for 60fps is more a 1080p console than anything else. Only to the extent to which games are very limited or very specifically tailored (like a ND project) will it go for that 1440p 60 fps.

how it wasn't stable ? if I remember correctly there werent single fps drop and devs said uncapped runs in middle 40ish and about cu count it as important as clock frequency so don't know why you ignore clock

 

[Thirty7ven]

The visuals on screen in this game don't look all that next gen, I mean Ratchet looks a whole generation ahead of this.

It’s the best looking game of its kind.

 

[carloseduardocd]

Do you know what reconstructed means? It means it starts from a lower resolution than the one to which you reconstruct, hence 1080p.

I've said 'since UE5 demo'. Besides, we can name plenty of other examples with what the PS5 has shown.

Don't own an Xbox, so what you're saying about it makes no difference to me. I don't think the XSX will run away with it anyway, the difference is small between the two and will mostly manifest in resolution differences due to CU count (and thus the specific optimisation points for both). XSX might push itself closer to 1440p 60 fps but not really.

I'm saying, since UE5 was not even 1440p stable, at 30 fps, it is clear that the PS5 for 60fps is more a 1080p console than anything else. Only to the extent to which games are very limited or very specifically tailored (like a ND project) will it go for that 1440p 60 fps.

Tech-demo is not a game. It's just to show Nanite and Lumen capabilities for developers, more studios adquiring UE5 licence. They doesn't need to pass hard months making SKU specific optimizations.

And a game design involves compromisses. Lumen in the land of nanite had a micropolygon compromisse, more as they can put on the screen, because the objective is to demonstrate the engine capabilities. A real game could have other compromisses.

 

[JackMcGunns]

This is what happens when you combine Unreal Engine 4 with housemark's experience with particle systems (Arguably the most impressive part about this game).

I'm so glad next-gen had such a massive upgrade to the CPUs and these guys are making good use of it, targeting 60fps

 

[RoboFu]

 

[Astral Dog]

Expect internal resolutions on both consoles to keep dropping as we get into next-gen games. But it's not really a problem if the devs can get good upscaling techniques in place. I would rather them cheat on resolution and provide us with more effects and better frame rate.

I think the problem is RayTracing itself, it appears to be VERY demanding, even cross gen games like DMC 5 had to drop to 30fps(a sin in that type of game) to support it, i can't imagine what a proper next gen game will have to do, although with time developers will also get used and make their own tools

 

[Reindeer]

I'm saying, since UE5 was not even 1440p stable, at 30 fps, it is clear that the PS5 for 60fps is more a 1080p console than anything else. Only to the extent to which games are very limited or very specifically tailored (like a ND project) will it go for that 1440p 60 fps.

Epic already said they're optimising it to run 60fps. 1440p60 upscaled to 4K would be excellent for next gen consoles.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

This isn't CB.

So DF are MS shills which are lying about the game? Or better yet, Housemarque are lying about their own game too? Please inform us what they are using, since it's not using CB to get to a final "4K" output resolution, according to you.

 

[rodrigolfp]

When Resident Evil 4 came out everyone was in awe of the visuals, the fire effects omg. What happened to gamers that now they pay more attention to words on a box instead of the visuals on the screen?

2 main things, I think.

Nintendo did not write any resolution on the GC box and games on GC had always higher resolution than every N64 game.

 

[Reindeer]

It’s the best looking game of its kind.

Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't look next gen. To me it looks like something that can easily be done on PS4Pro at 30fps or maybe upscaled 1080p60.

 

[abel empire]

One thing alex Didnt explain enough or say, its not using voxel solution for the fog its using a full fluid simulation on the fog not the cheap voxel solutions like the one in gears 5. Its well worth noting fluid simulations need alot pf processing power and with all the particles and whats going on screen it does all this at 60fps. ID like to know how this guys and insomniac manage tp throw so much stuff on screen without breaking a sweat.!

This is fully fluid not static voxels

Everything you need to know about PS5 sci-fi shooter Returnal - This Month on PlayStation | PlayStation

Fight to break the cycle of chaos on a hostile, alien planet.

www.playstation.com

 

[Zathalus]

Yeah, i think they only need to patch vrr in.

They are probably optimizing the process.

My guess? Sony TV's don't support VRR yet (up until the 2021 models), likely Sony does not want to push a feature that means you have to go buy a competitors TV.

I'd bet once the 2021 TVs are out everywhere and the 2020 TVs have the VRR update applied, you will then see the PS5 update for VRR.

 

[Evil Calvin]

It's still just a $70 roguelike

 

[MadPanda]

Seems like xbox fanboys got their 5 minutes for a resolution revenge on quantum break I remember back in the day petty warriors also focused on resolution in quantum break ignoring everything else happening on the screen.

Honestly, playing the game I'm not sure anyone would care or even notice game's resolution. It's a beautiful game, go play it and enjoy it. I'm currently playing rage 2 which is 1080/60 and it looks great on a 55" screen. This shouldn't be any different.

People use digital foundry analyses for all the wrong reasons. It's sad.

 

[Loope]

I remember when Alan wake was dragged over the coals for 540p plus many more. You know what, you miss out on some amazing games if you obsess over graphics and resolutions.

Looking forward to watching the video on my 65" CX and ultimately being impressed. Yes 1080p seems low for this generation but I need to understand the reasons behind it before casting it off.

If its due to truelly next gen features such as raytracing then we have all the reasons we need.

Still the best looking game for me in that generation. The resolution was a bummer, but i played it on pc later, amazing lighting.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I bet you know since your reading comprehension sucks.

lOoK aT mE eVeRyOnE

iM t3h sMaRtEsT gUy iN tHe rOoM

i cAn SpLiT hAiR sEmAnTiCaLlY

 

[Loope]

Seems like xbox fanboys got their 5 minutes for a resolution revenge on quantum break I remember back in the day petty warriors also focused on resolution in quantum break ignoring everything else happening on the screen.

Honestly, playing the game I'm not sure anyone would care or even notice game's resolution. It's a beautiful game, go play it and enjoy it. I'm currently playing rage 2 which is 1080/60 and it looks great on a 55" screen. This shouldn't be any different.

People use digital foundry analyses for all the wrong reasons. It's sad.

And Alan Wake, that game as nailed hard because of the resolution.

 

[skit_data]

Tbf, Control is last-gen game, with no RT for 60 fps, and lowest settings (vs PC equivalents). And it still doesn't hold steady 60.

I think its a sort of a mix in all honesty, it didn’t fare well at all on last gen base consoles. The engine probably hammers parts of the GPU in a way many next gen games might not when developers get accustomed to the hardware but in general i think its reasonable to expect the res/fps numbers to hover around that in general.

There are of course outliers, like what Insomniac manages to do but in multiplats I expect next gen games to give roughly those graphics/performance options to choose from

 

[Hunnybun]

I think when we just saw R&C looking about a generation better than this and almost certainly running at at least double the resolution, plus RT reflections, you kind of have to admit this result is disappointing.

Yeah, it's got 60fps, but otherwise.... seems like a poor result.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So DF are MS shills which are lying about the game? Or better yet, Housemarque are lying about their own game too? Please inform us what they are using, since it's not using CB to get to a final "4K" output resolution, according to you.

This isn't a traditional CB method. This is closer to what other paradigms coming out in FFX, etc., than it is to the CB on the Pro.

But sure, for arguments sake, let's just call it "it's just CB bro," because we are going to split hairs and gosh forbit it ever encroaches on our bastion tech.

My original point still stands. It's funny to see those tripping over themselves for methods that produce a perceived and discernable clean as fuck 4K image, but not having to be native to do so, when they gloat about DLSS/FFX which is also taking an image that is not native, and cleaning it up to look native (Laymen's terms) to save on resources. Insecure mental gymnastics and all that gravy train.

 

[abel empire]

Guess 4K TV purchases for this gen were a waste. 1080p4eva.

Do people care if its written 4k on the box or if the visuals are 4k. People seem interested in knowing if its native 4k even if the image looks native 4k. Your simply fascinated by numbers not visuals. Last year dlss was praised as the holy grail and this year suddenly consoles are being brutalised by using reconstruction techniques even if the image looks 4k. Df had to zoom in and count pixels thats how absurd and ridiculous this is. Its foolishness of the highest order.

 

[Reality Czar]

Game is not next gen enough for the people still paying to play Skyrim in 2021.

 

[lukilladog]

lOoK aT mE eVeRyOnE

iM t3h sMaRtEsT gUy iN tHe rOoM

i cAn SpLiT hAiR sEmAnTiCaLlY

It wont hurt you to read a dictionary from time to time.

 

[Blond]

To be fair it’s not like they have games to spend their time playing.

BUT THE VARIETY OF GAMES I PLAY FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES ON GAMEPASS AND BRAG ABOUT LOVING IS WORTH IT!!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Guess 4K TV purchases for this gen were a waste. 1080p4eva.

Most quality 4K TVs will still produce a better 1080p image than on a native 1080p set. Pixel density is king.

 

[M1chl]

Yes, and Xbox Series X is a 756p 30fps machine?

Do you realize how is so unfair judge a hardware by one specific game?

Returnal was made on "generic" UE4. Destruction Allstars, Sackboy, Gears 5, all these games are made in this engine, and doesn't hit perfect native 4k resolution.

you

Well so was The Medium after all. I don't like dissing of this game, lately, because I am Blooper fan, but something with review or some shit and now this. Not good : D

 

[Rikkori]

how it wasn't stable ? if I remember correctly there werent single fps drop and devs said uncapped runs in middle 40ish and about cu count it as important as clock frequency so don't know why you ignore clock

They locked it at 30 fps but the average resolution was <1440p, so that means it wasn't stable 1440p 30fps. The reason I mentioned CU is because it scales better with resolution than sheer frequency and in order to properly utilise them without a lot of work that's what you do first. So XSX will have a resolution advantage, but that doesn't mean PS5 will be worse off, it will simply target something other than pixel count in order to max the hw. Again, this isn't an XSX > PS5 discussion. The differences are too small.

Tech-demo is not a game. It's just to show Nanite and Lumen capabilities for developers, more studios adquiring UE5 licence. They doesn't need to pass hard months making SKU specific optimizations.

Right, which goes even further to prove my point. Tech demos show best case scenarios, they're a showcase. When you add production to the calculus it becomes even harder to hit higher than 1080p 60fps while still delivering on those 'next-gen bullet points'. That's why I say it's only games which can limit the workspace (linear/semi-linear) and have lots of engineers (AAAA) that will really push past 1080p 60 fps.

Next-gen open world games will simply not go past 1080p without major sacrifices to either the graphics, world, or framerate. Just look at how hard it is for even the AI-limited Cyberpunk to really do 1080p 60 fps + RT. Once devs start working on the worlds themselves, adding AI routines, making the worlds alive, etc. that will not be any easier of a task.




Tbh I don't understand why people are upset with 1080p, it's a perfectly fine resolution especially for console gaming which is further from the TV anyway.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

hope naughty dog can do better

Insomniac with R&C is already doing better. You can be shure that all first party developers of Sony will do better, even Naughty Dog

 

[3liteDragon]

I'm saying, since UE5 was not even 1440p stable, at 30 fps, it is clear that the PS5 for 60fps is more a 1080p console than anything else. Only to the extent to which games are very limited or very specifically tailored (like a ND project) will it go for that 1440p 60 fps.

I don't know how many times I'm gonna have to say this but the UE5 demo was outputting a clean 4K image that was indistinguishable from native 4K and Digital Foundry couldn't even tell if it was upsampled 4K or native 4K until Epic told them it was running at a dynamic 1440p resolution with TAA upsampling to 4K. The final resolution output from that demo is 4K, which is what matters in the end. And Epic has already stated the demo has enough frame time left on PS5 to run at 4K@60FPS without making any optimizations to the 30FPS demo.

Inside Unreal Engine 5: how Epic delivers its generational leap

Epic's reveal of Unreal Engine 5 running in real-time on PlayStation 5 delivered one of the seismic news events of the …

www.eurogamer.net

Watching the online reaction to the tech trailer has thrown up some interesting questions but some baffling responses too. The fixation on the main character squeezing through a crevice was particularly puzzling but to make things clear, this is obviously a creative decision, not a means to slow down the character to load in more data - it really is that simple. Meanwhile, the dynamic resolution with a modal 1440p pixel count has also drawn some negative reaction. We have access to 20 uncompressed grabs from the trailer: they defy traditional pixel counting techniques. When the overall presentation looks this good, this detailed, with solid temporal stability (ie, no flicker or shimmer frame to frame), resolution becomes less important - the continuation of a trend we've seen since the arrival of the mid-generation console refreshes. As we said almost two years ago now, next-gen shouldn't be about 'true 4K', the game has moved on and put it frankly - GPU resources are better spent elsewhere.

This is next-gen: see Unreal Engine 5 running on PlayStation 5

We've seen the specs, we've heard the pitches - but what we haven't experienced is any demonstration of a genuine next-…

www.eurogamer.net

And that, in a nutshell, is the definition of a micro-polygon engine. The cost in terms of GPU resources is likely to be very high, but with next-gen, there's the horsepower to pull it off and the advantages are self-evident. Rendering one triangle per pixel essentially means that performance scales closely with resolution. "Interestingly, it does work very well with our dynamic resolution technique as well," adds Penwarden. "So, when GPU load gets high we can lower the screen resolution a bit and then we can adapt to that. In the demo we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time."

Penwarden also confirms that the temporal accumulation system seen in Unreal Engine 4 - which essentially adds detail from prior frames to increase resolution in the current one - is also used in UE5 and in this demo. The transparency here from Epic is impressive. We've spent a long time poring over a range of 3840x2160 uncompressed PNG screenshots supplied by the firm. They defy pixel-counting, with resolution as a metric pretty much as meaningless as it is for, say, a Blu-ray movie.