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[OldKingDoran]

I don't understand the point of consoles anymore. Building a PC is like a new Lego set, and you get bang for your buck with sales and no online-gaming charge. Graphics cards have HDMI output for 1080/60 and surround sound. You can easily setup a 360 pad/Dualshock 3/4. Wireless Keyboard/Mouse are easy to get used as well. This is MY view, and it's not malleable.

the only reason i still game on a console is because of jrpgs and fighting games, which makes up about 90% of what i play. Those 2 genres are pretty poorly represented on PC. Though that may change during this generation with more japanese devs showing interest toward PC. I don't have a next gen console yet, i'll probably end up building a PC first.

 

[Chinner]

Look, PC gaming is just mainstream. Don't get all defensive just because console now a niche that only caters for nerds.

Everybody has a PC and desk. i can play games and do work. Who can really afford to buy big comfy chairs and upgrade their TV every 3 years just to play expensive console games??

 

[Saty]

While its obvious MMO's, MOBA's and for other genre's, the PC is the place to be, but i guess what a lot of Gaffers are saying, the kind of games ... the "traditional" type's (Is that a PC enough term ?), that's the only revenue that really matters as that's the kind of revenue from games that matters to them. I know i see revenue charts like this and think "Well, i want another PC exclusive FPS shooter in the vein of Crysis ?" which we don't get anymore.

By any indication we have for those games, they are very much healthy on PC. The problem is publishers don't give breakdown of sales by platform and when ever a console-minded person talks about sales, they pit more 2+ console versions against the single PC sku.

Regarding Crysis 1, let me remind whoever needs it, that the game released on November 13th 2007. By December 31st 2007 the game already reached the 1M mark (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/01/crysis-goes-platinum/).

 

[test_account]

They're much better than your 8 hour "AAA" corridor shooter.

Those shooter games usually have multiplayer too. LoL and DOTA 2 are multiplayer only, arent they? Those games are AAA games too.

 

[Principate]

Those shooter games usually have multiplayer too. LoL and DOTA 2 are multiplayer only, arent they? Those games are AAA games too.

Those games or Dota at least has singleplayer.

 

[coldfoot]

Those shooter games usually have multiplayer too. LoL and DOTA 2 are multiplayer only, arent they? Those games are AAA games too.

AAA means AAA graphics which the popular MOBAs lack

 

[patapuf]

By any indication we have for those games, they are very much healthy on PC. The problem is publishers don't give breakdown of sales by platform and when ever a console-minded person talks about sales, they pit more 2+ console versions against the single PC sku.

Regarding Crysis 1, let me remind whoever needs it, that the game released on November 13th 2007. By December 31st 2007 the game already reached the 1M mark (http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/01/crysis-goes-platinum/).

The thing about shooters like crysis or big RPG's isn't that they wouldn't be profitable as exclusives on PC (or any platform). It's that for a publisher looking to fund an AAA game, there's really no reason to make it one.

It's the same thinking that got the majority of (western) console games a PC port in the past years. Nowadays a game not getting a PC port sticks out, this used to be very different.

The games exclusive on PC are exclusive either because of audience or because of the strengths of the platform (ditto for console third party exclusives)

 

[Faith]

AAA means AAA graphics which the popular MOBAs lack

Nope, AAA means high quality.

 

[Wiktor]

AAA means AAA graphics which the popular MOBAs lack

Well..considering how outdated PS3 and 360 were for many years, I guess this means none of those consoles got any AAA games for the last two three years?

 

[test_account]

Those games or Dota at least has singleplayer.

I see, i didnt know that. Thanks for the info.

AAA means AAA graphics which the popular MOBAs lack

Nope, AAA means high quality.

Hm, for me, AAA means in terms of budget. But maybe there are other definitions for it too.

 

[Faith]

Hm, for me, AAA means in terms of budget. But maybe there are other definitions for it too.

Well, mostly it correlates. It's hard to make a AAA game without a really high budget.

 

[ashecitism]

Pretty sure Dota 2 can be considered AAA. It has high production values, just look at the voice cast. And considering it's a continuous service with no true end in sight, it doesn't run on small budget. This goes for Riot and Blizzard games too.

 

[coldfoot]

Well..considering how outdated PS3 and 360 were for many years, I guess this means none of those consoles got any AAA games for the last two three years?

Games like Killzone, Uncharted, Halo, TLOU, GTA V etc, have better graphics than all the PC MOBA's combined.
It's not just about hardware power but time spent on graphics, optimizing polygonal models, lighting, effects, etc.

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

AAA means AAA graphics which the popular MOBAs lack

Do you not consider Dark Souls 2 AAA ?

 

[Saty]

The thing about shooters like crysis or big RPG's isn't that they wouldn't be profitable as exclusives on PC (or any platform). It's that for a publisher looking to fund an AAA game, there's really no reason to make it one.

Yes, i didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I said that earlier, your typical big publisher game can't be sustain by any single platform alone, so saying something like GTA5 never would have existed as PC-only release means nothing because it wouldn't have existed as PS-only or Xbox-only release.

The Crysis 1 example is because many still hold the false belief the game was a failure and that it was the epitome of PC games not selling and developers fleeing to consoles. It wasn't. It's probably the best-selling and most profitable Crysis game.

 

[sueil]

I'm not even sure why the console players are so mad. PC is thriving so you have to get upset over it? I have no interest in playing any MOBA's. But that doesn't really matter. Even in the single player realm I prefer there is still lot's of great games. There's more PC games I want to play now than any time in my entire life.

 

[coldfoot]

Do you not consider Dark Souls 2 AAA ?

It is AAA, but it's a console game ported to PC, so I don't see your point. Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.
You're not going to get AAA games with a strong narrative developed for PC, ever. They will be console ports.

 

[sueil]

It is AAA, but it's a console game ported to PC, so I don't see your point. Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.

The PC Version releasing a year/6 weeks later could probably have a large effect on that number.

 

[GhostTrick]

It is AAA, but it's a console game ported to PC, so I don't see your point. Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.

Sure, do you have any concrete numbers to say such ?
While I don't have any numbers; I think that the growing number of Japanese devs releasing games on Steam shows something else.

 

[coldfoot]

Sure, do you have any concrete numbers to say such ?
While I don't have any numbers; I think that the growing number of Japanese devs releasing games on Steam shows something else.

Yes it shows that releasing a PC port pays off if it can be done with minimal effort.
On the other hand, when releasing a blockbuster hugely expensive game like GTAV, you keep it to consoles for a long while to keep piracy in check.

 

[elelunicy]

Nope, AAA means high quality.

Are you saying no indie game is of high quality? Cause they sure as hell ain't AAA games.

For me AAA means high production value and marketing budget (which would not include the cost of running servers.)

 

[GhostTrick]

Yes it shows that releasing a PC port pays off if it can be done with minimal effort.
On the other hand, when releasing a blockbuster hugely expensive game like GTAV, you keep it to consoles for a long while to keep piracy in check.

I guess that's why GTAV isnt releasing on Ps4/Xbox One. To keep "piracy in check". Piracy is an old argument, I'd say an irrelevant one nowadays. The main reason some games are released later on PC is to get people buying twice. And the same could apply to PS4/Xbox One which is the reason we're seeing late ports at 1080p on those platforms.

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

It is AAA, but it's a console game ported to PC, so I don't see your point. Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.
You're not going to get AAA games with a strong narrative developed for PC, ever. They will be console ports.

Don't get me wrong, i know this, and its a shame, but that's the point I am making above, the charts don't show how games like these are selling (games that I am interested in, and I believe many other Gaffers).

 

[GhostTrick]

You're not going to get AAA games with a strong narrative developed for PC, ever. They will be console ports.

The only reason you can see that kind of games on consoles is because of first party. Otherwise, AAA with strong narrative are all multiplat titles.

 

[StayDead]

Nope, AAA means high quality.

Not sure if you've played any AAA games recently but most of them are anything but high quality. AAA usually points to high budget and high budget doesn't mean good.

 

[Saty]

It is AAA, but it's a console game ported to PC, so I don't see your point. Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.
You're not going to get AAA games with a strong narrative developed for PC, ever. They will be console ports.

Ignoring the fact that every game whatsoever is developed on PC first, From said time and time again the PC version of DS2 is the lead, so i don't get how it's still a 'port'.

And will someone goddamn answer why they think it's fair or relevant to compare sales of 2 skus against 1?

 

[Nzyme32]

AAA means AAA graphics which the popular MOBAs lack

You yourself have defined AAA by so many different terms such as titles that sell over an arbitrary amount that you decide in previous threads. Why redefine them yet again?

The PC Version releasing a year/6 weeks later could probably have a large effect on that number.

That often seems to be a sounds business decision as well. Seeing some of the dark souls threads, its seems clear that people are rather impatient and happy to "double dip"

 

[Henrar]

Ignoring the fact that every game whatsoever is developed on PC first,

It doesn't matter. Mobile games are also developed on PC.
What matters in the end is for what platform the game was developed for.

From said time and time again the PC version of DS2 is the lead, so i don't get how it's still a 'port'.

Well, for starters, the game has serious problems on PC (the "HDMI" problem and whatnot). And well, if the game was primarily designed for PC, it would have goddamn keyboard prompts and not Xbox 360 ones.

 

[SparkTR]

If the Ars Technica Steam sales thread is true, I definitely believe this. Apparently some numbers were Civ V sold 6m copies, Borderlands 2 sold 3.1m, Dark Souls 1.3m, XCOM 1.7m, Torchlight 2 2.3m and CS: GO at 5.5m.

The returns there are damn good considering the genres, especially as it seems both Borderlands 2 and XCOM could have potentially sold the most on PC.

The Xbox brand killed PC game development back in the early 2000's. The only things left are quickly developed browser games and FTP MMOs/LoL clones.

I don't want to start a list war, but recent and future offering for PC in regards to Strategy and RPGs put pretty much every other platform to shame. It's one of the last bastions for games with legitimate depth, not pandering to the lowest common denominator but to a specific niche. If you happen to be part of that niche it's like heaven.

Ofcourse those games aren't going to be on this list often, but they're available in growing numbers on PC these days while they're waning on pretty much everything else.

 

[Durante]

It is AAA, but it's a console game ported to PC, so I don't see your point. Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.

Show your sources.

(Also, people have already posted multiple multiplatform games in this thread where the bolded is proven to be untrue)

I don't want to start a list war, but recent and future offering for PC in regards to Strategy and RPGs put pretty much every other platform to shame. It's one of the last bastions for games with legitimate depth, not pandering to the lowest common denominator but to a specific niche. If you happen to be part of that niche it's like heaven.

Ofcourse those games aren't going to be on this list often, but they're available in numbers on PC these days.

Right.

 

[Saty]

Well, for starters, the game has serious problems on PC (the "HDMI" problem and whatnot). And well, if the game was primarily designed for PC, it would have goddamn keyboard prompts and not Xbox 360 ones.

Pretty odd criteria. If that what counts for serious problems then i would assume the frame rate situation on consoles is as well. There are many PC-exclusives that have serious technical problems, does that make them a port?
I don't know if DS2 shows keyboard prompts if you only play with it but there's nothing wrong with controller prompts when you are using one.

Don't see how a better-looking, better-performing version can be referred cheaply as 'port' even when the developers themselves say the opposite. And surely not for the reasons you listed.

 

[test_account]

Well, mostly it correlates. It's hard to make a AAA game without a really high budget.

That is true.

Pretty sure Dota 2 can be considered AAA. It has high production values, just look at the voice cast. And considering it's a continuous service with no true end in sight, it doesn't run on small budget. This goes for Riot and Blizzard games too.

This is what i was thinking.

 

[Henrar]

Pretty odd criteria. If that what counts for serious problems then i would assume the frame rate situation on consoles is as well. There are many PC-exclusives that have serious technical problems, does that make them a port?

Problems like this shouldn't happen in a game developed primarily for PC. And they happen in DS2.

I don't know if DS2 shows keyboard prompts if you only play with it but there's nothing wrong with controller prompts when you are using one.

The game shows X360 prompts even when using keyboard. There are no keyboard prompts in the game.

Don't see how a better-looking, better-performing version can be referred cheaply as 'port' even when the developers themselves say the opposite. And surely not for the reasons you listed.

They also said there wouldn't be graphical downgrade. Just sayin'

 

[SparkTR]

I guess that's why GTAV isnt releasing on Ps4/Xbox One. To keep "piracy in check". Piracy is an old argument, I'd say an irrelevant one nowadays. The main reason some games are released later on PC is to get people buying twice. And the same could apply to PS4/Xbox One which is the reason we're seeing late ports at 1080p on those platforms.

Especially considering newer games like GRID Autosport and Borderlands Pre-Sequel not being on XBO/PS4. Must be because of those dirty pirates, right? Definitely not to fish for double-dippers.

 

[GhostTrick]

Especially considering newer games like GRID Autosport and Borderlands Pre-Sequel not being on XBO/PS4. Must be because of those dirty pirates, right? Definitely not to fish for double-dippers.

Yeah, damn pirates ! Those consoles aren't even 6 months old, they're already on those ships...

 

[Stallion Free]

Good to know there is an invisible graphics line you have to cross to count as AAA.

Brb tempering my praise for PC.

 

[lifeexpectancy]

Wait.... WoW is F2P now? If so then I might just jump back on that train for a bit. Haven't played it since the level cap was 60...

 

[SparkTR]

Wait.... WoW is F2P now? If so then I might just jump back on that train for a bit. Haven't played it since the level cap was 60...

No, and it probably won't be for a while. They still have 7.8m subscribers and the number was increasing last I heard.

 

[Daemul]

They don't even have cutscenes or anything. They can hardly be considered games.

That would mean the Elder Scrolls games can't be considered games because they barely have any cut scenes.

 

[kswiston]

Wait.... WoW is F2P now? If so then I might just jump back on that train for a bit. Haven't played it since the level cap was 60...

WoW microtransactions are enough to put it on that F2P list. With subs, it earns quite a bit more.

 

[MutonCommander]

It is AAA, but it's a console game ported to PC, so I don't see your point. Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.

Wrong:

Not even remotely true. According to Ars Technica's Steam estimates and other available data on console game sales, for games like Borderlands 2, Portal 2, Skyrim, Saints Row 3, Metro 2033, Dead Island, Just Cause 2, BioShock Infinite, XCOM, Tomb Raider, Dark Souls, Hitman Absolution, Dishonored, the PC SKU was either the best selling one or very close to the console SKU numbers.

 

[Messofanego]

Lots of truth bombs being dropped here with all those tables and graphs. Now, I feel compelled to check out Counterstrike Global Offensive.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

"Gaming" does not have a single spec requirement. Almost any PC from the past 4+ years can run League of Legends without any trouble, which is why it's a huge deal worldwide. There's a continuous gradient between low end and high end, not a sharp divide between gaming and non-gaming.

Even compounds my point more. Anything that can run League of Legends then. It doesn't take a super high end machine to do that.

But it's more of a surprise to me that it's taken this long considering how many PC's are out there.

If you also count someone buying Sonic CD which basically can run on PC's from 1999 then it makes this more obvious and less surprising. But as I said before, it's surprising given how many different types of games and revenue avenues there are on PC's these days.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Wrong:

Next post will be: "but most of those sales were at much lower price points because of Steam sales. PC versions make less money."

Call me Gafstradamus.

 

[MutonCommander]

Next post will be: "but most of those sales were at much lower price points because of Steam sales. PC versions make less money."

Call me Gafstradamus.

Oh I'm sure of it.

 

[Principate]

No, and it probably won't be for a while. They still have 7.8m subscribers and the number was increasing last I heard.

It's F2p until level 20 I believe hence why they had all those f2p adverts.

 

[Anteater]

Most DS2 sales are on consoles just like every other multiplatform game.

didn't dark souls 2 come out like yesterday on pc

 

[Archie]

didn't dark souls 2 come out like yesterday on pc

It came out Thursday and has been in the top 5 played on Steam all weekend, peaking at 77,000 concurrent users. For comparison, the PC version of Dark Souls 1 peaked at 10k concurrent on Steam (granted it had a late, awful port and didn't use Steamworks so that doesn't capture the entire PC population.

The PC version of DS2 will certainly end up being the best selling version after it gets a few sales.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Fuck. Let's all make MOBAs and mobile games then.

 

[saunderez]

Problems like this shouldn't happen in a game developed primarily for PC. And they happen in DS2.

And games developed primarily for consoles should never have problems like crashing right? Oh wait they do. Especially on the new gen consoles. Last gen we had games that had problems on certain model PS3s or 360s.

At least there's an excuse on PC, the multitude of hardware configurations. It's funny how the single hardware configuration platforms of consoles do exactly the same fucking thing.

The goalposts have been moved so far I'm pretty sure they're orbiting somewhere around Jupiter right now.