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Opinion Event #DICE2020 Epic CEO Tim Sweeney condemns loot boxes, says game companies should 'divorce themselves from politics'

Endless Fluff

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Some quotes from the article
"We have to ask ourselves, as an industry, what we want to be when we grow up? Do we want to be like Las Vegas, with slot machines ... or do we want to be widely respected as creators of products that customers can trust? I think we will see more and more publishers move away from loot boxes," Sweeney said.
"We should be very reticent of creating an experience where the outcome can be influenced by spending money. Loot boxes play on all the mechanics of gambling except for the ability to get more money out in the end."
"The world is really screwed up right now. Right now our political orientations determine which fast-food chicken restaurant you go to. And that’s really dumb," he said, as quoted by IGN. "There’s no reason to drag divisive topics like that into gaming at all."

Businesses should be "neutral venues," where employees and customers alike "can hold their own views and not be judged by us for that," he said.
Sweeney said that the best way for companies to avoid "controversy around political censorship" from foreign nations, is for them to "divorce themselves from politics."
 

angelic

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That is so far from a fair characterization that I don't care if this results in a double post. You know exactly what you are getting from the battle pass. And in STW they show you exactly what every possible paid lootbox contains.
Ok, so it has overpriced paid skins. Just because you know what you're getting, doesn't make it all that better. Rocket League went from a random lootbox chance of a rare for 1 dollar, to specific paid for rares, which are now 20 dollars each.

This is videogame CEOs though, he's only crowing about lootboxes because he's lucked out on a way to make money that's only slightly different...he still makes billions from microtransactions. They just dont have the slot reel delivery method. He's still preaching from a pulpit built on worthless digital items.
 
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NickFire

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Ok, so it has overpriced paid skins. Just because you know what you're getting, doesn't make it all that better. Rocket League went from a random lootbox chance of a rare for 1 dollar, to specific paid for rares, which are now 20 dollars each.

This is videogame CEOs though, he's only crowing about lootboxes because he's lucked out on a way to make money that's only slightly different...he still makes billions from microtransactions. They just dont have the slot reel delivery method. IHe's preaching from a pulpit build on worthless digital items.
I think you hate him or Epic for unrelated reasons. The skins are overpriced for sure, but they charge zero dollars for the BR part of the game and you can spend zero without anyone getting a lick of a competitive advantage over you. And they actually did have lootboxes in STW, and then they said that's not right and changed them to xrayed lamas to end the practice.

Yes they make huge profit, but there's nothing wrong with that when everything is above board. He may be preaching from the pulpit on this "don't make china mad" nonsense, but when it comes to monetization of fortnite we should be praising their practices, not condemning. They have given millions of people a constantly updating game that makes them happy, and you don't have to spend a penny to participate with all the advantages the whales get.
 

Humdinger

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You can't really keep politics out of games, any more than you can keep spiritual themes out of games. Politics has to do with the nature of how power, money, resources, and status are organized and distributed. That's often integral to the stories that games tell.

What I'd like is for progressive politics, the SJW/PC/woke nonsense, to get out of gaming. That would be nice. I acknowledge that this is just my preference, and I would defend the right of any developer to create anything they want to.
 

Darkmakaimura

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You can't really keep politics out of games, any more than you can keep spiritual themes out of games. Politics has to do with the nature of how power, money, resources, and status are organized and distributed. That's often integral to the stories that games tell.

What I'd like is for progressive politics, the SJW/PC/woke nonsense, to get out of gaming. That would be nice. I acknowledge that this is just my preference, and I would defend the right of any developer to create anything they want to.
I'm pretty sure he means injecting personal politics and using politics in games to promote contemporary views, i.e. anti-Trump themes, etc.
 

CuteFaceJay

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Fucking loony tunes!!!!

OG Fortnite was filled with them and still is. Have they been removed or is he just trying to look like the "Good guy"?
 

MaxB

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Orwell said the act of separating politics from art is a political statement in and of itself. Art is not merely an aesthetic delight, being informed by a society shaped by the politics of our age. Women and other minorities assuming prominent roles in mediums like gaming is a development that is attributable to gains for these marginalized groups on the political front. Thanks for reminding me why I won’t contribute a dime to your already obscene wealth, Tim.
 
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MaxB

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I don't think anyone has a problem with politics in games. It's using games to create borderline propaganda for current politicians and political parties.
If you are going to include politics, then they should approach it in a nuanced and measured manner that looks at both sides. Otherwise it comes off, as I said, as propaganda.
Sometimes, an exploration of “both sides” lends itself to a dangerously misleading false equivalency between good and evil. It is a dishonest cudgel against those who have decided to take a firm stance against hate. I don’t care about “both sides.”
 

-Arcadia-

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Fortnite: Battle Royale is ace for both being absolutely free, forever (you can buy cosmetics if you want), and containing zero politics. 👍

Just fun for everyone. The only point of frustration is when a ten-year-old shotguns you in the face, and flosses over your corpse. The way it should be.
 
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Spukc

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Whatever moleman fortnite uses peer pressure to force kids to have the latest skin.

You are just as shitty as the rest
 
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Siri

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I hate when I agree with someone that I usually don't like.
As a society we need to get over this. It’s not possible, nor is it healthy, to completely agree or disagree about every subject with everyone.

These days if you disagree with anyone on the Alt Left about virtually anything they’ll want to destroy your career and leave you lying penniless in the gutter.
 
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Ok, so it has overpriced paid skins. Just because you know what you're getting, doesn't make it all that better. Rocket League went from a random lootbox chance of a rare for 1 dollar, to specific paid for rares, which are now 20 dollars each.

a skin can be 4,000$, doesnt matter. You want to play fornite for zero bucks till it shuts down. You can. I hate loot boxes because they can pretend its random. Business are allowed to make money.

Anyways, yes he wants politics out of his games cause of china. Cute. And its fine.
 
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Al3x1s

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Lol, another 180, from fuck those pos entitled gamers, it's all about giving (our hand picked since our platform is closed and anti-indie by default but let's pretend otherwise, folks are gullible after all) devs more mullah even if it means less quality of service to users, to gamurz 1st, lootboxes are bad and keep politics out (although that's a kind of beautified edition of his stance which clearly was about just buying products regardless of company politics citing chick fil a as an example of why care what they do outside their actual product, just buy your tasty chicken and stfu, consumer).

By the way this is just parroting what legislation is causing more companies to shift to anyway, as lootboxes become more regulated, they shift away from the random stuff to just offer specific paid items to the same whales for even higher prices, hardly any change in company integrity and stuff.
 
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01011001

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Ok, so it has overpriced paid skins. Just because you know what you're getting, doesn't make it all that better. Rocket League went from a random lootbox chance of a rare for 1 dollar, to specific paid for rares, which are now 20 dollars each.

This is videogame CEOs though, he's only crowing about lootboxes because he's lucked out on a way to make money that's only slightly different...he still makes billions from microtransactions. They just dont have the slot reel delivery method. He's still preaching from a pulpit built on worthless digital items.
you buy 1 pass for 10 bucks and get ALL following battle passes for free as long as you get enough in-game currency back by playing the game.

you usually get enough currency back after 60 (of 100) levels, which you literally can get to in 3h (I once did that for my brother because he didn't have time to play enough so in the last week of the pass I sat down for 3h and through all the challanges ranked up to level 60 in no time.

I usually averaged between 9 and 12 level-ups per match in the first few games and then like 5 levels a match as it went on.

so you get exactly what you see, you get more currency out of it than you use to buy it so you can get extra stuff in the in game shop. and you can just get the next battle pass for free.

battle passes like this are by far the best and fairest way to monetize a free to play game.
 
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Gargus

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Nothing wrong with politics in gaming if they're handled right, but more often than not it just comes across as pander-y and brow beating.
I don't want ANY politics in a game that even begin to so much as casually hint at the real world politics. At all, ever and seeing them is an instant turn off for me.

I dont mind politics in a game if it is a part of that games fictional setting and it suits the game and is separate from real world politics.

I am constantly bombarded with the real world all the fucking time everywhere I go. Unless i am at home watching a movie from the 80s or playing a game then i am assaulted with the real world and can't go anywhere without fucking being beaten up with information about someone problem or politics.

I play games because i can escape the bullshit of other human beings and reality. I do not want to be reminded of it even one iota in a fictional game i am playing in order to get away from reality.
 
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ethomaz

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Doesnt fortnite have Season passes, which are lootboxes in all but name.
Nope.

The complete opposite.


Ok, so it has overpriced paid skins. Just because you know what you're getting, doesn't make it all that better. Rocket League went from a random lootbox chance of a rare for 1 dollar, to specific paid for rares, which are now 20 dollars each.

This is videogame CEOs though, he's only crowing about lootboxes because he's lucked out on a way to make money that's only slightly different...he still makes billions from microtransactions. They just dont have the slot reel delivery method. He's still preaching from a pulpit built on worthless digital items.
If you know what you are getting it is not lootbox lol

You have the choice to buy what you want and the company selling can price it what they want... that is fair for consumers and companies.

The stupidity start when a company sells to you something that you don’t know what it will give you... so you need to pray to Jesus to get what you want.

PS. How you got likes with false posts is out of my mind lol
 
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Shmunter

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Do people dislike politics or do they hate intersectional woke pc garbage shoved down their throats? I see a clear difference between sensible political views and can easily tolerate those woven into story.

However with intersectionality any less than 100% agreement is met with authoritarian screams of cancellation, racism, misogyny, what have you. The shutting down of comedy, no jokes allowed, censorship, it just goes on and on.

It’s only the woke that are calling for more politics because they are getting their way in media. As soon as a title emerges that doesn’t embrace the cult mentality it’s a different story. See Kingdom Come or The Last Night. See them attack publishers that claim no political bias because if you’re not with us, you’re against us.

Modern age Fascism is woke culture and alone creates division between people. It needs to be stamped out by people with big voices. Gervais, Chapelle, Maher, Sweeney. Regular people need to mobilise and push back, you see anything woke - make your displeasure Known, and make it Loud.

Woke culture go away! PC garbage is never ok!
 
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ZehDon

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Well, I agree and disagree on the "politics" statements. Largely, I think there's just more nuance needed here to have a meaningful discussion, because he's making some broad statements.

Games are an art form. Using this art form, creative individuals can express themselves - express their beliefs, their views, and their politics. I think that's fine, as it is for every other art form. Look at Metal Gear Solid, Deus Ex, slews of JRPGs. No one complains about "muh politics" there, because the political stuff is in the game's story that the player is invited to interpret and interact with in meaningful ways.

With more modern games, though, the politics isn't in the game's story - it's in the game's development and marketing. Battlefield V's "story" is about as "unpolitical" as you can get in gaming - Nazi's bad, player good, shoot more, think less. Yet, I'd label it a very political game, because it attempts to re-write extremely well documented 20th century war-time history using 21st century social-media virtue signalling. The latter is the kind of "politics in games" that needs to go the way of the dodo, while the former, I think, is largely already celebrated. If Sweeney is referring to the latter form of politics, I agree with him in full. But if he's referring to the former, I think his Chinese overlords are exerting a little too much control.

In any case, with the loot box stuff - I agree in full. AAA video games need to decide if they're just pachinko machines, or if they're something more - and by something more, I don't mean "movies disguised as video games" to stroke The Writer's ego. I mean the immersive sim, dynamic narrative, interactive experiences that only video games can be. I really, really hope they go with latter.