PhoenixDark
Banned
He's certainly a war profiteer, but you're going into ridiculous territory here. Let's say you're right though, and Cheney is a piece of shit. What purpose does it serve to lower yourself closer to his level with hateful comments?
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Dick Cheney gets heart transplant
- Thread starter Kosmo
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He's certainly a war profiteer, but you're going into ridiculous territory here. Let's say you're right though, and Cheney is a piece of shit. What purpose does it serve to lower yourself closer to his level with hateful comments?
Dreams-Visions
Member
I assume he won't be any nicer a guy.
speculawyer
Member
Meus Renaissance
Member
This is an interesting point. I'm assuming the list of those in need of a transplant also takes into account the age of the patient right? Would they place a 71 year old above a 30 year old even if the former was waiting longer?
You could literally post this in every thread if you want to make a point about how impotent everyone on the internet is.
Technosteve
Banned
He's too fucking old for a transplant what a waste of a heart
Money and power will get you anything in this world.
Seriously, what don't you understand?
Your impression of Cheney differs from bin Laden because?
It bugs me how pliable human beings are.
You give a man a title and suddenly his actions are acceptable.
I didn't make any hateful comments; I didn't wish him ill, other people posted that . But making hateful comments wouldn't lower me at all to his level.
Saying rude things is a far cry from starting wars that lead to the deaths of millions and plunge the economy into economic ruin.
PhoenixDark
Banned
speculawyer
Member
It really isn't out of bounds to say such things about Dick Cheney. And he sold it with such deception as this statement about Iraq:
"now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."
Using deception to start a war is deplorable.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, Cheney is a total scumbag and his continued existence shouldn't be celebrated.
It pains me to see monsters like Dick Cheney getting top notch medical attention while my mom receives wildly inadequate health care for her numerous chronic illnesses. This is what classism and class war are all about. Cheney can die and take capitalism along with him for all I care.
It pains me to see monsters like Dick Cheney getting top notch medical attention while my mom receives wildly inadequate health care for her numerous chronic illnesses. This is what classism and class war are all about. Cheney can die and take capitalism along with him for all I care.
This is all taken into consideration in the organ donor match program.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
You need a research paper to show that Dick Cheney was responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths?
I was partially kidding, but how many more hearts are we going to waste on this scumbag?
Actually, I DON'T think much of Bush and Cheney's actions are acceptable. I would have launched a myriad of investigations into both of them (and the rest) over the Iraq war, the PATRIOT Act, FISA, etc. I think Iraq was completely unacceptable. There are a couple of differences though between Bin Laden and Bush and Co. First, whether I like their actions or not the majority of their actions publicly appear to be through legal channels (at least by US law, we could argue about international law). I thought Iraq was a mistake, for that matter I thought staying in Afghanistan beyond about the first year or so was a mistake. However, you have to separate "mistakes" that is, policy judgments that you think are wrong with things that are illegal.
For example, I think a GOOD thing to investigate very thoroughly is the Powell presentation to the UN with the "faulty intelligence" that was the pretext for war (something that recently seems to have eerie parallels today). I think the war itself was constitutional in that they got an AUMF and that's all we seem to require these days rather than actual declarations of war like we should do, but I think it was wrongly fought. I think the outting of Valerie Plame and the subsequent commutation of Scooter Libby is another area that deserves more poking around about. Also, Cheney and any residual ties and influences with Halliburton with regards to the wars need to be examined for specific illegal conducts.
But all of that, honestly? That doesn't compare to targeting civilians repeatedly on 9/11 or the Embassy bombings, or the FIRST WTC attack in '93, etc etc etc. I really don't like "defending" Bush and Cheney but you really need a little bit of perspective. Just like I don't agree with many of Obama's POLICIES none of that has anything to do with anything personal.
chaostrophy
Member
I don't think there's any human alive who is responsible for more death and suffering than Dick Cheney. Any society that would give him a transplanted heart is IMO beyond redemption and the world would be better off it it were wiped off the map.
Angry Fork
Member
It's okay to hate shitty people. There is no problem with wishing someone to die if they're bad enough, it just depends what's bad enough for some people to justify wanting that.
For some reason people have this idea that because someone is an American government official they're "obviously" not that bad. Don't compare him to Osama silly don't you know Americans can't be terrorists etc.
The people responsible for dropping Hiroshima/Nagasaki shoud've been put on trial for war crimes but that didn't happen because we won. I don't have a bleeding heart for Sadaam Hussein or Osama and I don't have one for Cheney either. (I'm against capital punishment so I don't think anyone should be put to death by the state, but if a bad person dies there's no reason not to celebrate). Cheney also isn't comparable to Osama but not eveyrone has to be Osama for you to be okay if they died.
More than the pure evil mass murdering dictators out there in the world? Ok.
Kony? I mean, in terms of evil people Cheney's not top 20. There are a FUCKOAD of dictators, war lords, and just plain evil sumbitches out there.
POWERSPHERE
Banned
Always thought he was a heartless cunt. Hope this gives him a real change of heart.
hockeypuck
Member
Alcoholic liver disease is probably the most common reason for patients receiving liver transplants in the U.S. Hepatitis C second, non-alcoholic steatohepatitis (fatty liver from being fat) third.
Not sure if serious, but hearts and lungs can only survive 4 hours max outside the body. For comparison, kidneys and livers can survive 2-3 days.
I believe this is his first heart transplant. He's had multiple bypasses, angioplasties, even on a balloon pump via the femoral artery. He was dependent on an LVAD right before this.
He became less like the Bionic Man since he no longer requires the mechanical LVAD.
Aphallatosis
Member
Cheney's part in the war wasn't some mistake it was a conscious fraud. It's not legal just because you're not prosecuted. Legality isn't morality.
This isn't about policies this is about causing the deaths of many innocent people for the sake of advancing your own power, agenda, and influence.
They are very much comparable.
chaostrophy
Member
Of course. That's why I said "responsible for more death and suffering" not "evil". I'm sure in a world of about 7 billion people there are those more evil than Cheney. But none of them have had access to and control of the most powerful military force in humanity's history. With great power comes great responsibility and I believe Americans abdicated that when they elected, and especially re-elected, this thug and his out-of-his-depth puppet GWB.
Femmeworth
Banned
Well, if he was on the waiting list for twenty months and considering other factors, I suppose there wasn't any foul play.
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/ht/before.html
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/ht/before.html
Angry Fork
Member
Are people who get new hearts allowed to then give those hearts to medical causes if they die? If Cheney doesn't donate his body to medical science then it's definitely a waste of a good heart (unless they don't take the heart upon death I'm not sure, I would imagine not if he dies of a stroke or something).
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
The guy started an illegal war (from which he and his mates profited) based on phony evidence, which resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. He's a fucking piece of shit, and the fact you are passing it off as "a mistake" is ridiculous.
responsible in what way? how precisely do you intend to compare the responsibilities of Cheney and Osama? how do they fit into their respective organizations? what actions did they take that make them specifically responsible for the deaths?
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
I'll always have a soft part in myheart for Dick Cheney. Good man. Dick. I love ya. And Kosmo... I admire you.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
I suppose he has a right to life. That's as nice as I can say about the man.
I'm not sure that the evidence is there that he knew the war was phony. I mean, do I think he knew? If I had to guess I would say yes. But my point is that is a GUESS. I don't think there has been a smoking gun of evidence that he knew he was pushing war based on faulty intel. I would also just add to Julls that the war wasn't illegal under US law. International law it was but that's a different discussion and the US isn't a signator to the ICCJ.
I have to say though I'm annoyed I'm having to defend Cheney even this much. I think you're both looking at things emotionally rather than publicly available information. Like I said, if we have enough of an investigation it's possible we'd find something but I think Obama lost that chance (however slim) when he basically refused to open any investigations into his predecessor.
Who wrote the AUMF? It's difficult to judge someone under the law when they write the laws. The AUMF was passed on September 14, 2011, three days after the 9/11 attacks. It gave the President an unprecedented amount of autonomy in regards to war. So yes, it was legal for them to start major conflicts in the Middle East, bearing in mind that legality was established a mere three weeks before war against Afghanistan was declared, and probably for that very reason. It wasn't a coincidence.
"However, you have to separate "mistakes" that is, policy judgments that you think are wrong with things that are illegal."
Again, the legality of his actions means nothing to me, considering how easily he facilitated legality.
Cheney's ties to Halliburton are indisputable. Another thing that is indisputable is that Halliburton was the only company afforded the opportunity to bid for an energy exploration contract in the run-up to the war. You are being naive if this strikes you as mere coincidence. It's a typical "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" situation. The strong relationship between politicians and the corporate sector, and the ease with which members of either sector can transfer seamlessly into the other is exemplary of corruption.
"But all of that, honestly? That doesn't compare to targeting civilians repeatedly on 9/11 or the Embassy bombings, or the FIRST WTC attack in '93, etc etc etc."
Put yourself in the perspective of a civilian living in Afghanistan during the invasion. When your world is collapsing before you and sheet rock from exploding buildings is raining down upon you and your loved ones, do you stop to think about the people doing these things? Do you say to yourself, "these aren't terrorists, they're American soldiers?"
As I said before, human beings are pliable. You give a man a title, you give his men uniforms, and suddenly it's okay. There's a bureaucratic banality to it. It's expected, it's normal. You've heard their names dozens of times on the news. So there's that positive fluency in your mind. And then suddenly the news chimes out the name of some guy you've never heard of before, whose existence meant nothing to you 2 minutes ago, and you don't know anything about him, the sound of his voice, what he does in his spare time, and of course, you don't want to compare someone you have a fairly good idea about with some foreigner who's just carried out the deaths of 3,500 people.
Dick Cheney is to many people what Osama bin Laden was to us.
I wonder how it works. I mean does he get the heart of a 25 year old motorcycle rider? Or does he get the heart of someone who's 60 years old? I mean is old body - young organs even compatible?
speculawyer
Member
Why are people evil if they are disgusted by a man that deceived us into a war that killed many innocent people?
We never found any stockpiles of WMDs. There was no tie between Saddam and 9/11. Of course there were lots of no-bid contracts for Halliburton. I think it is a seriously shameful part of our history that will never be fully disclosed. Maybe 50 years from now when documents are declassified we will see things that rank up there with the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
You are a full on troll character at this point that I can laugh at. I guess the avatar always indicated it.
Bulbo Urethral Baggins
Banned
He got Whitney Houston's heart is what I heard.
Then I hope he got her soul as well
get it?
Because she's a soul singer...
it's funny....
speculawyer
Member
Really? Look at this quote:
"now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."
He full well knows Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 . . . he admits it . . . he is just saying . . . well, they are all from that same region of the the world so us fucking up that region of the world is good pay-back.
That is fucked up.
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