Solidsoul
Banned
Note: The purpose of this thread is to contemplate and dissect evidence of the original intents behind Forerunners and their impact in the Halo universe. I know the route 343 took with it and I very much respect and love their interpretation of Forerunner. I actually think it was the intention all along, judging by what I've put together.
Please, please don't let this turn out like every other Halo thread. Starting off promising, but ultimately becoming full of negativity.
Alright having said that, there are several hints and instances of Bungie originally intending for the Forerunners to just be humans, from a long time ago. Ancient if you will. But after digging through several sources and moment beats from the games...I'm just not sure that is the case. I think Forerunners were always intended to be different from humans. I definitely could be wrong, but here is why I think that is the case. I will only use Bungie made content to support my theory, as 343 Industries has factually made Forerunners a separate race from Humans. To start, here are several reasons why people think Forerunners were intended to be Humans.
343 Guilty Spark's words to Master Chief in Halo 3 right after killing Johnson. "You are the child of my makers, Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner, but this ring is mine." It definitely sounds like Guilty Spark is confirming Humans and Forerunners are the same, but Inheritor seems to imply something greater than that.
In the book Contact Harvest written by Joseph Staten from Bungie studios there is a revelation made by Mendicant Bias to the Prophets about Humanity's role in everything. Here is what it says briefly, taken from Halopedia:
The words of Mendicant Bias, a character with direct exposure to the Forerunners from thousands of years ago says that the Reclaimers are his makers. Definitely making it seem like Forerunners are one in the same with Humans, but why does Reclaimer get used more than the word Forerunner. If they were the same why does everyone seems to hesitant to say Forerunner, and usually just say Reclaimer. It's also not Mendicant that flat out says Reclaimers are living Forerunners in the quote above. But to further play Devil's Advocate, here is what David Candland, lead Designer of UI at Bungie had to say about 343 Industries introduction of the Forerunner as a separate race entirely.
The text present in Joseph Staten's novel Contact Harvest as well as David Candland's remarks on top of the fact 343 Guilty Spark straight up says "You are Forerunner" sure makes a very good case for Forerunners at one point being human, but I still am not sure this is the case. First off Candland also says this, to clarify.
With David Candland being a UI designer, he probably didn't have access to the Halo Bible and all the knowledge of what the intents behind the story were, nor did he have any impact on how the story was created, presumably.
Changing over to another conversation present in the Halo 3 terminals. This one is between the Didact and Librarian.
What's bolded above makes it very obvious that the earth wasn't a familiar place to the Librarian, she also references "them" making humans something different than what they were. It's hard for me to see how the information in these terminals implies anything less than Forerunners being a separate species. This is also Halo 3 from 2007, before Bungie even announced the split from Microsoft, so there is definitely no 343 industries involvement here. Either way it's just fun to speculate and I am very happy/interested with the direction 343 has taken.
I ultimately just want to have a good conversation about what people think the original intents and purposes of the franchises story were. The fact that the Halo 3 terminals pretty much make it a sure thing Forerunners are separate seems to deem that they are a separate race, as it was the last game in the trilogy and it was done directly by Bungie. Maybe earlier on, maybe on the first game humanity being the same as Forerunner was the idea, and it got changed overtime.
Characters and ideas such as Didact, Librarian, Mendicant Bias, the indexing of species on the Halo's before activation, the mantle, Forerunners discovery of humans were all ideas created by Bungie prior to 343's involvement. It only seems natural 343 Industries would have continued down a path that was already partially laid down by Bungie. (For the record several other things such as prometheans, and the different enemy types you fight in Halo 4 were created entirely by 343, and are not the same exact thing as a regular Forerunner.)
What do you think, were the Forerunners originally Human? Was the fact that they are a separate species in mind from the get go? I'd love to hear your thoughts or read any other further information I have left out.
Oh, and I'd like everyone to keep this in mind, because I think David's makes a very intelligent point about canon.
Sources:
David Candland
David Candland
David Candland
Halopedia
Please, please don't let this turn out like every other Halo thread. Starting off promising, but ultimately becoming full of negativity.
Alright having said that, there are several hints and instances of Bungie originally intending for the Forerunners to just be humans, from a long time ago. Ancient if you will. But after digging through several sources and moment beats from the games...I'm just not sure that is the case. I think Forerunners were always intended to be different from humans. I definitely could be wrong, but here is why I think that is the case. I will only use Bungie made content to support my theory, as 343 Industries has factually made Forerunners a separate race from Humans. To start, here are several reasons why people think Forerunners were intended to be Humans.
343 Guilty Spark's words to Master Chief in Halo 3 right after killing Johnson. "You are the child of my makers, Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner, but this ring is mine." It definitely sounds like Guilty Spark is confirming Humans and Forerunners are the same, but Inheritor seems to imply something greater than that.
In the book Contact Harvest written by Joseph Staten from Bungie studios there is a revelation made by Mendicant Bias to the Prophets about Humanity's role in everything. Here is what it says briefly, taken from Halopedia:
Halo: Contact Harvest said:When they input the discovery of Harvest and the Luminary's data, the Oraclewhich is in fact a fragment of the Forerunner Contender-class AI Mendicant Biassuddenly awakens from eons of dormancy and reveals that the Covenant has been misinterpreting their findings. What the Kig-Yar thought were artifacts were actually registering the presence of the humans on Harvest, which it claims are Reclaimers, and refers to them as his makers. The Minister of Fortitude concludes that these Reclaimers are living Forerunners and were left behind when the rest transcended.
The words of Mendicant Bias, a character with direct exposure to the Forerunners from thousands of years ago says that the Reclaimers are his makers. Definitely making it seem like Forerunners are one in the same with Humans, but why does Reclaimer get used more than the word Forerunner. If they were the same why does everyone seems to hesitant to say Forerunner, and usually just say Reclaimer. It's also not Mendicant that flat out says Reclaimers are living Forerunners in the quote above. But to further play Devil's Advocate, here is what David Candland, lead Designer of UI at Bungie had to say about 343 Industries introduction of the Forerunner as a separate race entirely.
David Candland said:One of the most striking retcons to me is the basic concept of whole role of humanity. Originally (back in Halo 1) the reason why humans weren't conquered and incorporated into the Covenant collective was because their presence defied Covenant religion. When the Covenant discovered humans, they knew they were forerunners, but their presence implied the "great journey" failed. They also weren't the all powerful gods they worshiped, so the Prophets wanted to "sweep them under the carpet," as it were.
The plot lines in our games imply this everywhere - the chief being called reclaimer, only humans being able to retrieve and insert the index, Spark telling the chief, "you are forerunner." etc.
I just finished reading Cryptum this morning. In it I discovered that the forerunner are now an entirely different caste-based species with Humans as a beaten, but allied race. At this point, I just follow Cody's lead, shrug my shoulders and say, "eh. it was a good read anyway. I'll buy book 2."
The text present in Joseph Staten's novel Contact Harvest as well as David Candland's remarks on top of the fact 343 Guilty Spark straight up says "You are Forerunner" sure makes a very good case for Forerunners at one point being human, but I still am not sure this is the case. First off Candland also says this, to clarify.
David Candland said:I also don't mean to imply that I, as a UI designer, have any control over story in our games.
With David Candland being a UI designer, he probably didn't have access to the Halo Bible and all the knowledge of what the intents behind the story were, nor did he have any impact on how the story was created, presumably.
Changing over to another conversation present in the Halo 3 terminals. This one is between the Didact and Librarian.
Librarian said:My work is done. The portal is inactive, and I've begun the burial measures. Soon there'll be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.
You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing--a snowcapped sentinel. That's where I will spend what time is left to me.
Did I tell you? I built a garden. The earth is so rich. A seed falls and a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. There's so much...potential. We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.
It's [Eden].
I have to stop transmitting. The thing is listening. Its [thinking dead] are babbling--laughing through every channel they can find.
Be proud. The Mind claims victory, yet it still doesn't suspect. You've outwitted it, my love. And now you can destroy it.
But you cannot save me.
What's bolded above makes it very obvious that the earth wasn't a familiar place to the Librarian, she also references "them" making humans something different than what they were. It's hard for me to see how the information in these terminals implies anything less than Forerunners being a separate species. This is also Halo 3 from 2007, before Bungie even announced the split from Microsoft, so there is definitely no 343 industries involvement here. Either way it's just fun to speculate and I am very happy/interested with the direction 343 has taken.
I ultimately just want to have a good conversation about what people think the original intents and purposes of the franchises story were. The fact that the Halo 3 terminals pretty much make it a sure thing Forerunners are separate seems to deem that they are a separate race, as it was the last game in the trilogy and it was done directly by Bungie. Maybe earlier on, maybe on the first game humanity being the same as Forerunner was the idea, and it got changed overtime.
Characters and ideas such as Didact, Librarian, Mendicant Bias, the indexing of species on the Halo's before activation, the mantle, Forerunners discovery of humans were all ideas created by Bungie prior to 343's involvement. It only seems natural 343 Industries would have continued down a path that was already partially laid down by Bungie. (For the record several other things such as prometheans, and the different enemy types you fight in Halo 4 were created entirely by 343, and are not the same exact thing as a regular Forerunner.)
What do you think, were the Forerunners originally Human? Was the fact that they are a separate species in mind from the get go? I'd love to hear your thoughts or read any other further information I have left out.
Oh, and I'd like everyone to keep this in mind, because I think David's makes a very intelligent point about canon.
David Candland said:Oh, and let me follow that up by saying that arguing over what is canon and what isn't (Nicole the spartan, Odd One Out, Reach vs. Fall of Reach) does nobody any good. Enjoy it all.
Sources:
David Candland
David Candland
David Candland
Halopedia