Guilty Spark shout out ftw
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Digital Foundry Face-Off: Rise of the Tomb Raider on Xbox 360
- Thread starter Enter the Dragon Punch
- Start date
Guilty Spark shout out ftw
Bits N Pieces
Member
Seems like a great port for someone who has a 360 and not an XB1 and doesn't want to wait for the PC or PS4 releases.
It can be both, you know. It's *NOT* an insult or a put-down.
It's an evolution.
The thing is, I prefer it that way. I actually tend to enjoy games that stick to classic formulas more than those that innovate for innovations sake.
What they did NOT hold back on, however, were the visuals. It's clear that CD's vision for the game's presentation was not limited by Xbox 360.
Gameplay wise, this is rooted in Tomb Raider 2013 - and that's OK.
Presentation wise (on XO), it's a big step up
Dictator93
Member
Watching!
edit: "HIGHLY SCIENTIFIC TESTING"
edit: "HIGHLY SCIENTIFIC TESTING"
Bioshocker
Member
I'm very impressed with the 360 version. It's cool to see what a 10 year old console can still do.
Still buying the Xbox One version, though.
Still buying the Xbox One version, though.
LiquidSolid
Member
No surprise Nixxes pulled off a fantastic port, they're up there with Bluepoint and HexaDrive as far as port houses go.
Dictator93
Member
The pecularities between versions are pretty darn interesting. The fact that the xb360 does not have all that specular aliasing everywhere makes it look suitably clean for a last gen game if one uses the xb1 version as a direct comparison. Pretty awesome.
Fantastic video and article as well.
I wonder what in the hell is going on with input latency though.
Fantastic video and article as well.
I wonder what in the hell is going on with input latency though.
FunkyDealer
Banned
I thought the aiming was a bit muddy on XBO, it's difficult to be precise with quick movements in close quarters. That's been one of my complaints for the game, but I kinda figured it was just me being bad at it. I guess the input lag must be at least partially to blame here.
Hopefully they'll patch the input lag as soon as possible. I'd love to be able to feel the difference before I finish my playthrough.
Hopefully they'll patch the input lag as soon as possible. I'd love to be able to feel the difference before I finish my playthrough.
Jawmuncher
Member
Even if you get ROTTR on Xbox one it's still worth playing. The input lag you're seeing isn't going to impact your playthrough.
psychotron
Member
Speak for yourself. Still enjoying the game but it very much impacts aiming during combat.
Dictator93
Member
Yeah, not sure if I would agree with that sentiment.
Yeah, I don't think it ruins the game or anything, but it definitely has an impact. The combat just doesn't feel crisp as a result. I'd like to use the bow and arrow or pistol more, but it's more difficult and twitchy to line up shots. I've become somewhat used to it, but it doesn't feel good. Once I got the shotgun, I ended up using that like crazy just because of the wider spread.
Thankfully, you can stealth through many sections (which also keeps the frame-rate up) and the game isn't too heavily focused on combat to begin with.
It was just surprising to me when I first engaged in combat on 360 and was like, wow, this feels totally different.
Green Yoshi
Member
WTF? Latency is a design choice, right?
Looking forward to pick it up next month. Will be my last Xbox 360 game, because I bought a PS4 this month.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I am playing the 360 version of Rise of the Tomb Raider now. I actually just paused it to check GAF.
It's seriously great! If you want to play this game but don't want to wait on a PS4/PC port, it honestly plays perfectly and is a ton of fun. Don't feel bad to buy it now and maybe buy the PC version 75% off on a steam sale.
It's seriously great! If you want to play this game but don't want to wait on a PS4/PC port, it honestly plays perfectly and is a ton of fun. Don't feel bad to buy it now and maybe buy the PC version 75% off on a steam sale.
10 times more powerful or so.
Either I'm blind or naive, but that doesn't look 10x more powerful to me. Looks identical minus fancy lighting, bloom, and motion blur.
Dictator93
Member
240 GF GPU vs ~1.3 TF GPU. Not really 10x on the GPU front necessarily.
Also, you have to consider the cost of rendering at a higher resolution... and all those "fancy" things you mention are actually significant and expensive.
'looks identical minus these missing effects'
well, in all seriousness, those are the biggest changes this generation compared with the last one, the shader power of the consoles lets you do fancy lighting, bloom, and motion blur
Well it is possible that they had to maintain down portability with the 360 version, which could have limited them.
Then, there are also diminishing returns.
What do you mean by that, "Nixxes is better"? They are only working on technical aspects of an already developed game and porting it to another console, This is a huge task and they deserve all the respect in the world for the great work they did with the 360 version of this game, but comparing it to building and developing a game from the ground up, including storytelling, gameplay mechanics and it's own engine seems silly to me, especiall with such a black/white statement like "A is better than B".
has CD said if a patch for the lag is coming or at least mentioned they are looking into it?
it can be patched, other games in the past have had lag issue and got fixed.
it can be patched, other games in the past have had lag issue and got fixed.
Garrett Hawke
Member
Watching now, great work from Nixxes!
I think TressFX/HairWorks is one of my favourite visual features tbh.
I think TressFX/HairWorks is one of my favourite visual features tbh.
SlaughterX
Banned
I prefer Tressfx to be honest. Geralt's hair looks more "plausible" with Hairworks but the shading is not as good, although that could be due to the difference in color. White hair must be more challenging to render (self-shadowing, transparencies and the likes) while brown hair could look better with less going on.
Lara's hair looks great in all situation in ROTTR, regardless of how the hair is lit.
Nixxes' technical work has always been more impressive than CD's on their own games. It's not like CD's artists and animators are under the hood with the programmers; Nixxes' own programmers have always had better results than CD's using their own assets.
Why would I talk about storytelling or gameplay mechanics in a DF thread?
Garrett Hawke
Member
Same, I prefer TressFX too but if HairWorks is the only option I still take that over normal hair.I prefer Tressfx to be honest. Geralt's hair looks more "plausible" with Hairworks but the shading is not as good, although that could be due to the difference in color. White hair must be more challenging to render (self-shadowing, transparencies and the likes) while brown hair could look better with less going on.
Lara's hair looks great in all situation in ROTTR, regardless of how the hair is lit.
also TressFX seems incredibly well optimised seeing how well it works in the XB1 version of this - compare that to the TressFX that debuted in the PC version of TR2013 and there's clearly a lot of work gone into optimisation. The simulation was cut back quite a bit for TRDE but comparing TR2013 PC's TressFX to ROTTR XB1's TressFX shows how far they've come in maintaining a lot of the simulation with less of a performance cost.
OsirisBlack
Banned
This is pretty interesting actually so Graphically XB1 > than 360 but 360> XB1 when it comes to Control. How does this happen and will the latency issue be addressed?
Same, I prefer TressFX too but if HairWorks is the only option I still take that over normal hair.
Well the first Tressfx had no LOD at all, regardless of the distance between you and the camera the workload was the same. On top of that they have substantially optimized various components. TressFX 1.0 which shipped with TR2013 was a brute force approach, just to put TressFX on the map.
ROTTR and Deus Ex MD use TressFX 3.0 which can also be applied to fur.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
What would you expect from GAF?
The Bone version's the best looking game I've ever seen. Nice to see this port wasn't a cash in.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I wonder how extensively it'll be used on consoles for MD.Well the first Tressfx had no LOD at all, regardless of the distance between you and the camera the workload was the same. On top of that they have substantially optimized various components. TressFX 1.0 which shipped with TR2013 was a brute force approach, just to put TressFX on the map.
ROTTR and Deus Ex MD use TressFX 3.0 which can also be applied to fur.
It seems cheap enough actually so on the main character + NPCs I would assume. Maybe for other stuff like pieces of cloth etc..
Jawbreaker
Member
Huh? He specifically mentions he isn't referring to GAF in that post.
ScepticMatt
Member
The second video has a very low audio bitrate in the beginning sadly.
(power point format)
The biggest performance improvements in 3.0 come from master/slave strand skinning and hair LoD.
Lightning + AA only, + Volumetric shadows, + Transparency
http://amd-dev.wpengine.netdna-cdn....in-Deus-Ex-Universe-Projects-TressFX-3.0.ppsx
(power point format)
The biggest performance improvements in 3.0 come from master/slave strand skinning and hair LoD.
Lightning + AA only, + Volumetric shadows, + Transparency
Dictator93
Member
That is really fantastic. I hope star citizen uses it like they mentioned they might.
MasterMongoose
Member
It's still weird to me that a $60 release would come out on last gen when the new console bundle itself will be $300 with all sorts of incentives in a week. Whoever's clamoring for this (amazing) port could probably easily jump to next gen if they saved for a little while.
It's understandable if you have a 360 and PS4/PC or something, but even then I would just wait for the "GotY" version next year on those systems anyways...
It's understandable if you have a 360 and PS4/PC or something, but even then I would just wait for the "GotY" version next year on those systems anyways...
The CPU is roughly the same(but uses far less power and produces way less heat), the GPU is 5 times more powerful but most importantly it has 16 times the memory and the frame buffer is 3 times larger.
So you can see the obvious differences showcased by DF here- 1080p versus 720p (that's twice as many pixels being drawn), almost all of the special effects are turned off on the 360 because they'd tax the GPU to much , the textures are being displayed at 25% or less the resolution they are on XB1 , world geometry is mostly unnaffected but the world detail/clutter level has been rebuilt and most (sometimes all) of the clutter/debris is missing entirely on the 360. The tressFX is a pretty big difference that requires a ton of power (just based on the PC versions performance).
The only areas where it improves on the xb1 edition are the anisiotropic filtering (which has trouble co-operating with tesselation and normal mapping in some cases and since the 360 release has both largely turned off, it's easier to use here) and by having all the other special effects turned off, there was room to add in some FXAA to smooth over the jaggies a bit. The xbox one appears to have no AA at all , CD probably hoped the motion blur would cover it up in most cases.
I wonder if the input lag issue is caused by a sloppily implemented post process effect perhaps ? It's not a big problem for me because most of the combat can be dealt with through stealth or making one good shot at environmental hazzards.
Either way, Nixxes did some impressive stuff here.