Maybe? Maybe not??
What the hell does that have to do with what I was responding to...what a useless response.
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Digital Foundry: Forza Motorsport 7 is Xbox One X's true 4K showcase
- Thread starter willbsn13
- Start date
What the hell does that have to do with what I was responding to...what a useless response.
Don't have to be so aggressive. Seems to be saying if there's so much room to grow with still 30% GPU available, why not crank other settings up (like reflections) over the months of development to now for E3?
Surely this GPU was being pushed for the demo. Now if there's more they could do in "efficiency" that might be possible, but so far they've phrased this as 65% GPU usage after a basic code port from the XB1, which shouldn't represent this demo after this much time.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Not impressed by the "XBONEX" huh? I'm shocked.
Damn, the differences between Forza 6 on Xbox One and Forza 7 on Xbox One X are massive...
Part of the reason Forza 7 looks so much better there is the weird lighting under the car on Forza 6. It always makes the car look like it's levitating on rain tracks.
Utterly gorgeous, but was a digital on/off switch used instead of an analogue accelerator pedal..?
Watch the video version, the AA is a generational leap compared to Forza 6, (and yes IQ matters a lot), but that could be due to the resolution difference. Regardless it looks much better if you compare the console versions.
That is the only reason I don't really play these games. Sure they look good, but cars are just boring by default. Although the Hot Wheels expansion looks kind of fun, so I could possibly get that as a standalone expansion.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Never been a big Motorsport guy, in fact I only own the very first one. I can't justify buying a game just for graphics.
But man Forza Horizon next year is going to look bonkers.
But man Forza Horizon next year is going to look bonkers.
funkystudent
Member
Will the standard Xbox 1 version still have dynamic weather?
I would guess so?
TBH I am curious what the differences between the 2 are. Comparing F6 to F7 probably isnt a fair comparison to judge since the Forza games always have a decent bump or tonal art changes each game.
I would guess so?
TBH I am curious what the differences between the 2 are. Comparing F6 to F7 probably isnt a fair comparison to judge since the Forza games always have a decent bump or tonal art changes each game.
LukasTaves
Member
So you are comparing Forza 7 to Apex, which already sports higher LODs for other cars, higher quality textures and effects to say there isn't any technical upgrade from Forza 6 on xbone to 7 on xbonex?
Doesn't make any sense. Compared to xbone they are not just pushing 4k, they also pushing higher settings.
I never see that guy say anything positive about anything on Xbox.
Welfare
Member
To me, just the immediate detail between the two pictures looks like a comparison for a cross gen game, like comparing the Xbox One and Xbox 360 versions of a game. Even in video, it looks like Forza 7 is running on much beefier hardware than Forza 6, yet they both can be played on the same system.
That's just me though.
Christocolus
Member
Lmao XD. I've seen a lot of his comments in the other thread praising GT and DC to high heavens but downplaying Forza.
Besides the noticeable increase in sharpness because of 4K, I didn't think it looked that amazing. Driveclub still takes the cake for me, shame the graphics weren't wrapped around a better game.
But that's fine, I never liked Forza's or GT's aesthetics. Forza Horizon on the other hand...lord have mercy, it's going to melt my eyes.
But that's fine, I never liked Forza's or GT's aesthetics. Forza Horizon on the other hand...lord have mercy, it's going to melt my eyes.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
That's what I was about to say, it look sharp and clean but that's it.
PC2 and DC at 4K@60fps this is not, it's almost understandable why it's running native 4k60
A lot of corners have been cut to get their target but hell it's still an improvement visually compared to the previous game.
Now Horizon...that would be interesting to see.
RenderJosh
Member
Lighting does seem odd and too dark, something they should tweak.
Aside from the fact that the headlights are missing (not like it is a technical challenge in the first place, unless their shadowmap atlas is a bit too busy but I doubt this is the case here), I had the opposite reaction in that we are finally seeing games that do not rely on (mostly) any type of rim/fake lighting, which tell a lot about the confidence they have in their lighting model since only actual light sources (point/spot/directional/area lights and probes) can lit the scene and nothing else. This is great.
Don't understand how this shows confidence. The ceiling lights seem to only light the turn signs which doesn't make sense, plus it's hard to race in pitch black. Think it just needs some tweaks to fix, but wouldn't say this is completely intended.
Where was this photo taken from? It's possible that the in-game camera hadn't transitioned to a higher exposure yet while in the tunnel. Another possibility is that it was taken from HDR footage and the color range got crushed.
I did the screenshot from the Digital Foundry video. I was very careful not to mislead, and there is no "eyes adjusting" effect going on. As you can see the brightness of the turn signs never change from outside to inside, it's just an odd portion of the video.
Watch for yourself: https://youtu.be/A7-9Izyuaxg?t=2m42s
jizzlobber
Member
4k and 60fps, something else to consider when comparing to driveclub.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Found this,
Figured it would help with the conversation of improvements.
4-5 is from 360 to XB1 by the way.
Figured it would help with the conversation of improvements.
4-5 is from 360 to XB1 by the way.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Allow me to blow everybody's mind with a single question.
What will Forza Horizon 4 look like on this thing?
What will Forza Horizon 4 look like on this thing?
thelastword
Banned
And it can't be massive either, because we are comparing Forza 6 Apex {4k) vs Forza 7 (4k)
I actually like the XBONEX, only wish it had a better CPU coming 1 year later, it would have made an impact in the console space then. What does that have to do with this tech thread though? Forza is on more than one platform now anyway....
The comparison is PC ultra F6 vs XBONEX F7, and they're both at 4k and at ultra settings, but not everything appears to be at the best settings on XBONEX or at least not all effects are engaged in F7 so far...PC vs XBONEX comparisons will be very interesting come November.
As for LOD, I'm pretty sure the PC version of Apex uses LOD 0 (autovista), maybe it was disabled, been a while, but the lod you speak of which can be resolved 100ft away on that famous F6 demo/screenshot on scorpio was already a feature on PC's highest settings. That lod setting on Scorpio was 1 step below Autovista models on PC fyi.
Thanks for your contribution, very informative post, wish you well.
Hawk269
Member
I downloaded one of the 2 high bit rate videos from being a Patreon contributor for DF and holy shit is it so clean. Serious impressive and we are still 5 months out. Hopefully they can use that GPU overhead they have to make a few more enhancements, but holy hell does it clean watching a 4k hi-bit rate video. The one I downloaded was the analysis one, I am currently downloading the 9minute one.
thelastword
Banned
We'll see how it compares when we have more tracks to compare and when all versions are out...You say F6 looks like a cross gen game compared to F7, ha ha ...ok we shall see. The PC requirements is not that hefty for F7 though so it should run pretty well on modest systems....
Very interesting comparison, hmmmm....IF I remember the IQ on F3/4 weren't that great on 360 though, lots of jaggies, but F4 does have a more realistic look to it...Found this,
Figured it would help with the conversation of improvements.
4-5 is from 360 to XB1 by the way.
Thanks. Yeah that's a super dark tunnel lol. Perhaps there are some exposure effects not in place yet/the track isn't totally finished yet.
Self_Destructive
Member
Well, I'd like to see and videos or impressions of people from E3 who have played both say that GT Sport looks better.. because every one I've seen so far has said Forza 7 looks better. But it's w/e...
RenderJosh
Member
There is no problem with how the ceiling light sources behave on the cars material, look again as the lights are correctly reflected on the glossy surface. Don't except them to give a very diffuse appearance on the car given the surface properties.
The turn signs are not actually that much lit by the ceiling lights since, in my opinion, they look like what would be light sources too, hence if there is one wrong thing that is really visible to me, it would be the arrow signs that do not actually emit light while they should, but heh.
Fake/rim lighting is something that is very common in games, even nowadays despite the fact that a lot of engines shifted to a more physically accurate way to describe light behaviour.
It is often used and visible in these kind of corner cases when the player might not see the scene how it was intended if it was relying on an old fashioned lighting model and/or just a handful of actual light sources.
Hence the need to "fake" some light sources. It is also used as an artistic trick in order to convey a given look that might be hard to achieve when only relying on the correctness of a lighting model (that might not be that correct in the first place, which would explain why a given look could be hard to achieve).
So yes, I think this requires confidence in the tech that was built to say "no" for the most part to such an old and "useful" trick. The consequence here is that people might/will/do say that it is wrong and not finished because it is too dark. Except that it is exactly (at least a way good enough approximation for a non path traced render) what you should see in such driving conditions without your headlights on. Not convenient when playing in these conditions, maybe, but wrong ? Nope.
MaLDo said:
Not sure what you did not understood in my post. I said that it is great that we can see a game that solely rely on actual light sources to lit the scene. Something that is not THAT common at all, believe me.
Tunnels have always had a weird problem in Forza where the overhead lights don't actually cast any light on the car or road. It's always driven me crazy, hah. Surprised it still isn't fixed.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
If you get good examples of both, as in actual gameplay, I would say they look about the same graphically. Though Forza 7 is 4K vs whatever solution GTS uses. I'm sure there's little effects in one missing in the other and vice versa, but other than that not much in it.
Sorry to snip most of your post, but just to sum it up, the lights might be slightly reflected off the car, but the whole point to having tunnel lights should be to actually light the tunnel.
BleedOrange
Banned
Damn, the differences between Forza 6 on Xbox One and Forza 7 on Xbox One X are massive...
Shit lol
BleedOrange
Banned
Rest of the upgrade is great, especially the IQ, but i hope they do Put some more effort towards the water particle system, its still lacking the detail of Driveclub and I am hopefull that can be achieved as they still have plenty of GPU overhead.
look at the droplets reacting to motion on the hood.It really sells the rain effect.
I still think Driveclubs water implementation is leaps and bounds better. The droplets actually join in Driveclub, and as you pointed out, react appropriately to wind shear.
Allow me to blow everybody's mind with a single question.
What will Forza Horizon 4 look like on this thing?
If the goal is 4k it'll look like part 3 in 4K.
OfTheOverflow
Member
Found this,
Figured it would help with the conversation of improvements.
4-5 is from 360 to XB1 by the way.
Why does 4 look the best lmao
RenderJosh
Member
True indeed. Watching the video from my phone was not the best idea
These are not real light sources (or they are way too dim, which would be strange given the intensity of the bloom that appears around them, but it is not like the bloom would be physically based in the first place), and the only light source of the scene, that actually cast shadows too, is the directional light from the sun. The precomputed light probes (the ceiling lights should be part of them) and the envmap also help to provide enough information. So my point about fake/rim lighting still hold
Having that much light sources that could cast shadows would be a real problem now that I give a better look at the feed. Memory bandwith out of other things would surely be a challenge to tackle if every light source would cast a shadow. That with shadow resolution, and the 60 FPS target can become a lot harder to maintain at such a high rendering resolution given the heavy burden that will be on the CPU.
Still a great approximation nonetheless.
Found this,
Figured it would help with the conversation of improvements.
4-5 is from 360 to XB1 by the way.
Forza 4 looks good no doubt, but the actual video shows the improvements Forza 5 and 6 made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXeYvaSg9wU
Which Forza games are you talking about? I know for sure that tunnels in Horizon 2-3 have normal overhead lighting that casts down. Forza 6 I think is the same, though tunnels on the Rio track have the lights that cast up to the ceiling then bounce down as mostly even lighting. The reflection on the bodywork and the "wobble" of the lighting on chrome surfaces is right.
This may be something I'm just not remembering, but what you're describing doesn't sound familiar at all. Are you talking about shadow casting maybe?
D'ultimate
Member
I don't know if people just keep forgetting this or if they're just being willfully ignorant.
What I mean is the light doesn't actually cast on either the road or on the car itself...so when you're in the cockpit you don't get a cool light/shadow cast from each light, it's basically like the light isn't doing anything at all.
Forza 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7D7tjWfqs
Forza 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYWKaQcDmD0
And you're right, after checking, Forza Horizon 2 has proper tunnel lighting: https://youtu.be/jOo4ZciztK4?t=1m3s
So does Horizon 3...though oddly enough, this bug happens during some of the video! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oUNGpQPc54
Now watch the Forza 7 footage: https://youtu.be/T85Fshj2eiY?t=1m6s
Tunnels should be super bright, that's what the lights are there for, but they are always pitch black in Forza and I don't understand why. Looks like a glitch but its been this way for three games now!
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Umm, people are taking this serious? How can you even know half the stuff you mention without being directly involved in the design of the game?
Like how do you know "most of" the reflections are not real time calculated?
How do you know some track elements don't render at full resolution?
I'm just curious how do you back up half of what you said? lol.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Cut it out. Dude, that's like saying Forza 7 would look like Forza 6 in 4K, and it doesn't. Nowhere near it. It looks significantly better. What are you even saying? This system is already proving with games like Gears 4, ESO, and even with Forza 7, that they can take an existing game or engine, bump it up to 4K resolution, while still having headroom to layer on further graphical effects. With Forza Horizon 4 only having to target 30fps with these specs, you're out of your mind, or just trolling, to think it'll look exactly like 3 in 4K.
But then I think that was an intentional bait post, so nicely done. I almost took it serious.
GHG
Member
If you think any of the information he is providing is incorrect you are free to disprove it.
Maldo has proven himself to be a trustworthy source when it come to things like this based on what he does and his previous work.
I'm not sure what parts of the track are lower resolution, but it seems generally correct from what we can see. Shadows don't hit borders. Cars don't reflect off of eachother as you can see in the link there's no reaction to the car surface. We can see the framerate of reflections are reduced.
Not bad looking at all, as I think this game has the best environments I've seen at 60fps looking at the canyon parts. Just nitpicks.
statham
Member
this is like too much info, like in a big budget film they show how they did everything to fool you. I look at F7 and F6/F5, I'm impressed, I don't want to know the tricks, because they look great to me.
Are you suggesting you don't do your own stunts?
Exactly. F7 looks incredible! November can't come soon enough.