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[BigTnaples]

343i were not the first to implement horizontal scaling. Grand Turismo 5 Prologue did it back in 2007, 1280x1080 to 1920x1080.
I doubt that H5 on PS4 would like significantly better. PC is another story of course.

Many underestimate the power difference between PS4 and XBO. You have been trained to think that it is simply 1080p/900p by multiplats. However XBO's inability to maintain 1080p exists in a vacuum where PS4 does not exist. When it comes to games being built from the ground up for a system, the PS4 still holds a significant advantage, regardless of the resolution discrepancy.

You're comparing two bullshots of cinematics to say they look the same. One look at the actual game in action compared to Halo 4 on Xbox 360 will make you see what a huge difference it is. I think people are also forgetting that a lot of their Halo 4 image quality has been rose-tinted by the phenomenal graphics it has as part of MCC at 1920x1080p/60fps which is essentially a remaster. Not meaning you, but a lot have forgotten how blurry and poor Halo 4 now looks when running on Xbox 360, instead using the remaster as an example of comparing the game.

I do agree that the hardware is definitely a hindrance to Halo 5. But they've made do with what they have and we have a Halo experience that will be better than before.

The comparison is off, sure. Halo 5 does obviously a lot more than Halo 4 in terms of graphic, scale, resolution, ai and frame-rate. Picking screens to negate that seems effective, though.

The tendency of online forums to instantly focus on discrediting any comparison is quite silly. I posted those two pictures from my 6+ at work. Notice how you both ignored the text in said post.

The lighting, the physics, the texture work, the shaders...almost everything aside from the leap in framerate, is too close to Halo 4 MCC for comfort.

I have played a shit ton of Halo. I am a Halo fanatic, I have read the books, own the collectors editions, the $300 Master Chief figures, I have the H5 XBO and multiple H5 controllers on preorder etc etc. I also played a ton of the Halo 5 alpha, on a 65' 4K Curved for reference, along side Halo 4 MCC, and have watched every Gamersyde video of the game available on the same display.

I am not just comparing those two screens, I am stating however, that Halo 5, in general, is disappointing on a graphical level, due in large part to the under-powered XBO, and to a smaller extent, their decision to go 60fps.

343i is a super talented studio, for which I have no doubt. It is not due to any lack of effort that Halo 5 is less impressive than it could be. I remember playing Halo 4 and absolutely drooling at the prospect of a next gen Halo with 343i at the helm. Now that we are weeks away, I am very disappointed.

This is due to the hardware, again. The leap from 360-XBO exclusives is not as substantial as the leap between PS3-PS4 exclusives. You can pick apart the comparisons all you like with "but 60fps! but open world! but TV!", the end result however, is games like Killzone Shadowfall at launch, or Uncharted 4, look heads and shoulders above their studios previous works, to a level that is almost mind blowing. Games like The Order, Horizon and Driveclub further display the hardware advantage. Where as games like Halo 5, Quantum Break, and Gears 4 are underwhelming graphically. Again, clearly not these top tier developers fault.

Again, this is coming from someone who is buying all of these XBO games, and owns multiple XBO consoles. I am not "trolling" but expressing my disappointment with lost potential in one of my favorite franchises of all time.

 

[leeh]

No it's not, far from it.

On MCC it's 1080/60 (unlocked, but stable in MP) and it looks glorious. Definitely better than a lot of the current-gen titles.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Is it me or is there some kind of LoD for animations too? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tsAajE8iNs

At the beginning you can see it really clearly that when a spartan is really close to you everything is 60fps, but when more away the animations start to look like running at 30fps.

This Cutbacks and sacrifices IMO got really ridiclious with halo 5. And the LoD in general is reaaally agressive on that Map.

I hope this Animation thing is a bug.

And i dont know but 12v12 sometimes looks sparse on this big maps. 16v16 or 20v20 would have been something.

 

[Dennis]

Locked 60fps but the game looks muddy?

They fucked up big time.

There was a choice to be made. And they chose poorly.

 

[KORNdoggy]

given everything they sacrificed for their 60fps vision. i'd have honestly preferred they had gone 30fps. it's not like halo 1-4 where garbage becasue they were 30fps. and at least then we could be looking at a new graphical benchmark for the console as well as a retained split-screen mode.

 

[viHuGi]

60fps is a must for a online shooter since is a fast game, campaign it's ok 30fps but online these days give me 60 please!

 

[thetwinsattack]

given everything they sacrificed for their 60fps vision. i'd have honestly preferred they had gone 30fps. it's not like halo 1-4 where garbage becasue they were 30fps. and at least then we could be looking at a new graphical benchmark for the console as well as a retained split-screen mode.

I am sure it will be the graphical benchmark for the One at 60fps.

Having near finished MCC over the weekend I think 60fps was the absolute right choice. I loved the beta last year and that was only running at 720p and I enjoyed the hell out of Halo 3 at the weekend despite it's graphics being well behind current standards.

Game play will always beat visuals and there is zero point getting hung up on what could have been if only _____________ (insert something relating to more power).

Roll on launch day.

 

[Wizman23]

Be careful what you say, some will call you a troll.

It REALLY REALLY bothers you when people like Halo 5 doesn't it.

 

[Kuni]

Super impressive stuff! And this is coming from a Sony guy. Clearly 343i worked their butts off. My flatmate is getting it so looking forward to see it running.

 

[Vinc]

Locked 60 FPS is so nice, should be a golden standard for this gen. Too bad it can't quite maintain 1080p, but I'll take the tradeoff every time.

Maybe next-gen 1080/60 can be the absolute standard. 4K can come later.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

It REALLY REALLY bothers you when people like Halo 5 doesn't it.

And it bothers you that some dont like Halo 5. So?
But why do you think that lol? It isnt uncommon on Gaf to get called a "concern troll" or a "troll" in general if you dont like things from game xy. This isnt only happening in Halo topics.


And btw i like Halo 5 too. But im not overly hyped for it.

Can we get back on Topic? k thx

 

[R3TRO]

Should have stuck with 30fps. The jump to 60fps seems to have too many trade offs.

 

[nekkid]

I'd say the LoD is fine, until you enter vehicles. Then it seems pretty aggressive with the speed through the environment.

I wish I hadn't read this thread, though. I don't think I would have noticed 30fps animations at distance, but now I can't unsee them.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Maybe next-gen 1080/60

won't happen. most devs will always prefer to drop that framerate to 30 and make it look gorgeous. and i'm all for that personally.

 

[Vinc]

won't happen. most devs will always prefer to drop that framerate to 30 and make it look gorgeous. and i'm all for that personally.

I can understand that to a degree, but 1080/60 almost always looks better to me than subnative/30. It's kinda like how PS2 remasters looked incredible to me last gen, and much better than most native PS360 releases. Clean IQ is king for me, I don't have any problem suspending disbelief at a non-photorealistic wall, but if it looks blurry and full of artifacts that move as I move in the game, I'll have a harder time believing the game's world. And 60 FPS helps image quality just as much as resolution, so at least that's something I really appreciate this gen, we usually at least get one or the other.

 

[TBiddy]

However XBO's inability to maintain 1080p exists in a vacuum where PS4 does not exist.

Which inability? It's not like XB1 doesn't have 1080p games.

 

[IvorB]

http://i.imgur.com/7rw1Qwb.webm

Ha ha!

 

[JaggedSac]

I was fine with how it looked in the beta, any improvement to that is just gravy.

 

[Outrun]

Graphics are part of the gameplay.

Frame rate more so....

 

[Raziel]

And people were fine with it being less than 720 for the most part. What changed their minds?

Their TV's.

 

[Friction]

This will be excellent. props to 343 for sticking to their vision and working with what they have.

 

[RedSparrows]

I wish Halo was out on PC, then we'd see some proper grafix. Etc etc.

It's not, move on. You might argue that 5 is not significantly better looking than 4, but then you double the framerate and add in more stuff going on all round, and that's fine with me.

Not fine for some, obviously, but then in all honesty, what did you expect from the obviously not-immensely-powerful Xbone?

 

[Angel_DvA]

like we said for XXX Halo article this days, It's really great that 343i choose framerate over graphics even if it's Halo 4 HD 2.0, 60FPS is important for any shooters, hope Gears of War and many of those games will follow the same patterns.

 

[Warxard]

Blessed 60fps

 

[Madness]

Many underestimate the power difference between PS4 and XBO. You have been trained to think that it is simply 1080p/900p by multiplats. However XBO's inability to maintain 1080p exists in a vacuum where PS4 does not exist. When it comes to games being built from the ground up for a system, the PS4 still holds a significant advantage, regardless of the resolution discrepancy.

The tendency of online forums to instantly focus on discrediting any comparison is quite silly. I posted those two pictures from my 6+ at work. Notice how you both ignored the text in said post.

The lighting, the physics, the texture work, the shaders...almost everything aside from the leap in framerate, is too close to Halo 4 MCC for comfort.

I have played a shit ton of Halo. I am a Halo fanatic, I have read the books, own the collectors editions, the $300 Master Chief figures, I have the H5 XBO and multiple H5 controllers on preorder etc etc. I also played a ton of the Halo 5 alpha, on a 65' 4K Curved for reference, along side Halo 4 MCC, and have watched every Gamersyde video of the game available on the same display.

I am not just comparing those two screens, I am stating however, that Halo 5, in general, is disappointing on a graphical level, due in large part to the under-powered XBO, and to a smaller extent, their decision to go 60fps.

343i is a super talented studio, for which I have no doubt. It is not due to any lack of effort that Halo 5 is less impressive than it could be. I remember playing Halo 4 and absolutely drooling at the prospect of a next gen Halo with 343i at the helm. Now that we are weeks away, I am very disappointed.

This is due to the hardware, again. The leap from 360-XBO exclusives is not as substantial as the leap between PS3-PS4 exclusives. You can pick apart the comparisons all you like with "but 60fps! but open world! but TV!", the end result however, is games like Killzone Shadowfall at launch, or Uncharted 4, look heads and shoulders above their studios previous works, to a level that is almost mind blowing. Games like The Order, Horizon and Driveclub further display the hardware advantage. Where as games like Halo 5, Quantum Break, and Gears 4 are underwhelming graphically. Again, clearly not these top tier developers fault.

Again, this is coming from someone who is buying all of these XBO games, and owns multiple XBO consoles. I am not "trolling" but expressing my disappointment with lost potential in one of my favorite franchises of all time.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179998958&postcount=450

Here is your post from the last Digital Foundry thread. Surprise surprise, your comment is verbatim the same thing, and you again bring up PS4 and even bring up how superior Naughty Dog did a job with Uncharted with pictures.

You keep saying you're buying several consoles, you're buying so and so Halo, you watched this. But your posts just read over and over how Xbox one is poor, how superior PS4 is, and how PS4 games like Killzone and Uncharted do a much better job.

I don't get it. This thread has nothing to do with Sony, with Naughty Dog, with Killzone, with the power of the PS4. You highlighted two 'bullshot' pictures of cinematics and use that as the basis to say that the game doesn't look much different. In the post I highlight above, you say it doesn't look that different from MCC 1080p/60fps Halo 4.

Like I said, MCC Halo 4, is a remastered next gen title and is of course going to look much better than Halo 4 on Xbox 360. Halo 4 on Xbox 360 was 720p and 20-25 frames. So yeah, compare the actual game play and get back to me. Take a look at the Blue Team in game game play, in motion at 60fps and then go back and look at Halo 4 on Xbox 360 in motion and see how wrong you are.

If you also have to try and convince other people you're not trolling, it kind of means you know you are doing it. We get it, Xbox One is shittier hardware than PS4, that you wish Halo 5 had stronger hardware to utilize. But it doesn't. So what's the deal? A Halo 5 technical analysis isn't the place to say Gears 4 underwhelms compared to the superior Order 1886 and all the Sony exclusives you mentioned.

 

[watership]

http://i.imgur.com/7rw1Qwb.webm

Beautiful.

 

[nib95]

I think some are confusing the comparison between Halo 5 and Halo MCC, and Halo on the 360 itself. Pretty sure BigTNaples said he expected a bigger jump between Halo 5 and Halo 4 MCC, not Halo 4 360. The expectation being that a new exclusive title should look markedly better than a previous generation Remaster. I guess we won't truly know how much better Halo 5 looks till we're playing it and have better comparisons.

 

[JimiNutz]

Yeah. I like the "nintendo-esque" approach of delivering rock-solid performance and letting your visuals depend on a well-directed art style.

You get used to most graphical artifacts, but shitty performance remains distracting.

I really wish more companies would do this.
Focus on smooth gameplay as your absolute number one priority.
Then spend time on a good art style so that your game still looks pretty.

 

[NippleViking]

Locked 60 is fantastic and should not be understated, though I hope they can bring Warzone's lowest resolution up a little by release. Arena maps look great, and E3's Escape from ARC looked clean, though Raid on Apex 7 can be very at times. Dynamic resolution can get away with a lot before it becomes jarring, but a drop to 1152*810 - marginally higher than 1200x720 - is certainly pushing it. This build is at least 5 weeks out from the release/review copy (though there's significantly less time if there's no day one patch), so improvements may still happen.

 

[GamerJM]

I wonder if 343's priority on 60 FPS is a big reason why we didn't get split screen. If so then I'm super disappointed, because I'd take split screen at a stuttering 10 FPS for all I care. I played tons of Halo 4 in 4 player split screen which was super choppy.

 

[Random17]

I mean, Halo 5's lowest resolution is still above Halo 4's 720p. I'm not sure how people are saying things are identical when it is clear we have received some major gameplay benefits with the hardware, as weak as it is:

1. Greater enemy density
2. Much larger play spaces
3. More content in general
4. Arguably better AI
5. AI in multiplayer vs at 60 FPS with dedicated servers. Firefight was very laggy in Halo Reach and that was offputting enough to avoid matchmaking

I haven't even talked about image quality. I know that our expectations have increased since 2012 (I love downsampling old games to 4k, mine certainly have increased!), but you're not going to get much better than this in an FPS on an Xbox One in 2015.

 

[Trup1aya]

With what seems to be a highly variable resolution that can dip to numbers that impact image quality in noticeable ways (based on those quotes), I wonder why the decision wasn't just to make a less graphically ambitious game and/or lock it at something less than 1080p? Still, I'm glad they're hitting their 60fps target for all those that are looking forward to this game.

Because the majority of the time, the game can sustain the target frame rate, at a reasonable resolution with the ambitious graphics in tact. They decided to have the game look great MOST of the time over having it look mediocre all of the time...

 

[Guerrilla]

.... Where as games like Halo 5, Quantum Break, and Gears 4 are underwhelming graphically ....

Quantum Break looks graphically underwhelming to you? seriously? I haven't seen a single screenshot of this game that doesn't look great...

I welcome 60fps, though I can get your critique somewhat, going from sub 720p/30 to 1080pr/60 with a shitton more happening on screen and much much larger environments took its toll. It still looks great to me though...

 

[Madness]

I think some are confusing the comparison between Halo 5 and Halo MCC, and Halo on the 360 itself. Pretty sure BigTNaples said he expected a bigger jump between Halo 5 and Halo 4 MCC, not Halo 4 360.

Halo 4 MCC is an end of gen title that was fully remastered to 1920x1080p/60fps just last year. It will of course look similar to a game coming out as an early gen sequel to said game. Imagine how much Halo 2 would have looked like Halo 3 had Halo 2 been remastered using Xbox 360 power the year before Halo 3 came out.

Also, he posted two cinematic shots, which are themselves bullshots, as a way to say they look the same. Since when are they ever used as a way to judge a game? Also, in the above post, he's already saying Driveclub and Order 1886 are better than Gears 4 and Quantum Break which aren't even out.

Is the purpose of posting here just to highlight the power of competitor consoles and other games? Don't get me wrong, he makes valid points. Xbox One is weaker than PS4. But what does that have to do with anything? It's 2 years since Xbox One launch. Is a Halo 5 going to be on any other console? No. So why make post after post on the issue? It's not about salt Vs slurp as opposed to arguing for the sake of arguing and concern trolling.

 

[El_Chino]

Graphics are part of the gameplay.

LMAO

 

[Trup1aya]

Be careful what you say, some will call you a troll.

Because the same argument can be said for literally any game ever...

Any game could look better on better hardware... The point is completely moot...

 

[KORNdoggy]

Halo 4 MCC is an end of gen title that was fully remastered to 1920x1080p/60fps just last year. It will of course look similar to a game coming out as an early gen sequel to said game. Imagine how much Halo 2 would have looked like Halo 3 had Halo 2 been remastered using Xbox 360 power the year before Halo 3 came out.

not that agree much with his comparison. but wouldn't that be much the same as say, comparing TLOU remaster (1080/60) with the upcoming uncharted 4? or comparing the uncharted 3 remaster (1080/60) to uncharted 4?

 

[LordOfChaos]

AF continues to confuse me this generation. On the PC side I've always found it a throwaway choice, with up to 16x AF having barely any performance hit even on ancient hardware like the x1650Pro. One of the lightest and easiest ways to improve IQ. What's going on? Bandwidth constraint? But then why is it an issue on the PS4 too? I guess having more TMUs/ROPs would also use more bandwidth there. But it's still weird. It's always been a nearly free option.

 

[Wizman23]

And it bothers you that some dont like Halo 5. So?
But why do you think that lol? It isnt uncommon on Gaf to get called a "concern troll" or a "troll" in general if you dont like things from game xy. This isnt only happening in Halo topics.


And btw i like Halo 5 too. But im not overly hyped for it.

Can we get back on Topic? k thx

Hey you are the one that turns EVERY SINGLE Halo 5 thread into a shit fest, so please refrain from telling people to get back on topic when you are the one that sends these threads to shit every.single. time. I pray for your sanity on launch day when millions of people are going to be having fun with Halo 5. It is a going to be a nightmare for you.

 

[nib95]

not that agree much with his comparison. but wouldn't that be much the same as say, comparing TLOU remaster (1080/60) with the upcoming uncharted 4? or comparing the uncharted 3 remaster (1080/60) to uncharted 4?

Not exactly, because Uncharted 4 is 30fps (though MP is 60fps, so you could compare that). I think a better comparison would be God of War 2 HD with God of War 3, or something like that. But unless I'm forgetting some Remasters, I don't think there's a direct comparison out there for this.

He is right though, this is 343i's first new Halo game on the Xbox One. For all we know Halo 6 could look loads better.

 

[strata8]

not that agree much with his comparison. but wouldn't that be much the same as say, comparing TLOU remaster (1080/60) with the upcoming uncharted 4? or comparing the uncharted 3 remaster (1080/60) to uncharted 4?

Uncharted 4 isn't 60 fps though.

 

[EagleEyes]

not that agree much with his comparison. but wouldn't that be much the same as say, comparing TLOU remaster (1080/60) with the upcoming uncharted 4? or comparing the uncharted 3 remaster (1080/60) to uncharted 4?

Nope because Uncharted 4 is 30fps and definitely should look a lot better than those remasters. 60fps games that are not remasters on consoles is not an easy thing to do at all.

 

[Guerrilla]

not that agree much with his comparison. but wouldn't that be much the same as say, comparing TLOU remaster (1080/60) with the upcoming uncharted 4? or comparing the uncharted 3 remaster (1080/60) to uncharted 4?

yes it is, but I don't think

this

looks unbelievably worse than this

and the first one is running at twice the framerate.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Hey you are the one that turns EVERY SINGLE Halo 5 thread into a shit fest, so please refrain from telling people to get back on topic when you are the one that sends these threads to shit every.single. time. I pray for your sanity on launch day when millions of people are going to be having fun with Halo 5. It is a going to be a nightmare for you.

Wtf are you talking about? I never did that. But whatever makes you happy. You started that nonsense that i wouldnt like Halo 5.

Why the fuck would it be a problem for me if others have fun with the game? You claim things that arent true. Calm down man.

You are the one derailing the thread with you offtopic nonsense btw.

 

[Discusguy]

Thank you 343i for making Halo 5 60fps. I could hardly wait to preload the game.

 

[KORNdoggy]

yes it is, but I don't think

this

looks unbelievably worse than this

and the first one is running at twice the framerate.

but is also pre-rendered...so...i guess uncharted 4 looks better then the pre-rendered TLOU cut-scenes?

i guess we should expect uncharted 4 online to look very similar to TLOU online mode though, right? those are both 60fps and 1080p and ones a remaster of a late PS3 game...

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

If we compare games, can we at least use gameplay screens/footage?

 

[GHG]

Genuinely thought I was in the Uncharted remastered DF thread for a second there after seeing all these Uncharted and TLOU references and pictures.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Genuinely thought I was in the Uncharted remastered DF thread for a second there after seeing all these Uncharted and TLOU references and pictures.

haha yeah i dont get why we always have Uncharted in the halo topics xD

 

[daman824]

but is also pre-rendered...so.

TLOU:R uses the same character models in its cinematics doesn't it?