A 2018 PS5 would effectively be a PS4 Pro 2 at this point. It wouldn't be a substantial leap at all. It'd basically have to play all PS4 games, and you'd struggle to justify devs making PS5 exclusives when it only just feels like this gen is starting to establish itself fairly recently.
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Digital Foundry - In Theory: Could Sony release PlayStation 5 in 2018?
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
Shin
Banned
That looks like Zen 2 since the desktop counterpart is already scheduled for Q4 2017/early 2018.
Seeing how the APU's come in 1 year later, Zen 3 would be in 2020 (good find regardless)
If we look at the jump from PS4>PS4P>Scorpio then theoretically such a machine (12+TF) should be feasible in 2019 for $399.
I do think Sony will ride this out and hit 100m PS4, they got a sub-4K machine that gives them more space before launching PS5.
WCCFTech is super ultra clickbaity and unreliable.
Almost singlehandedly spearheaded the Polaris and Fury meltdowns.
You should look at sources more nothing in that piece shows/talks about 10w expect in the title.
Edit -
As said above if it doesn't come directly from AMD then it's BS. This has been proven time and time again with wccftech. See their "sources" on what was supposed to appear on the recent AMD financial day.
TheLionsDen
Member
There's literally zero reason for Sony to make a PS5.
They're killing the console market share right now and the console would be way too weak compared to what they could make in say 2020
They're killing the console market share right now and the console would be way too weak compared to what they could make in say 2020
Negotiator
Member
AMD has already announced a "Mobile Ryzen Pro" variant down the line:
This is gonna be their Cat series (Bobcat/Jaguar/Puma) replacement most likely (laptops/consoles). 10W TDP wouldn't surprise me.
WCCFTech could be wrong or right, we'll see. Same with the other guy who claimed that Sony will go back to the discrete CPU/GPU route.
Shin
Banned
With Kaz Hirai saying that PlayStation is looking into which direction to take, who knows really.
We're in a transitioning phase with 4K TV gaining more traction, PlayStation will need to respond.
That was literally the whole point of launching the PS4 Pro less than a year ago. It's more than capable of delivering visible benefits on 4K displays, and we haven't even begun to see titles that were designed from day one to take advantage of it.
I agree. I think we are good on console hardware until 2019 at the earliest.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is not supposed to get games designed from the ground up to take advantage of it... it is not an accident, it is intentional. Same thing will be true for Scorpio for a good while...
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I also used to think the 8 core Jaguar used around 20-30W in launch PS4 but now think that is way over the top as AMD launched the A4-5100 APU at the same time and that is a 15 watt TDP SoC that includes 4 Jaguar cores @1.55 GHz + a 128 ALU/2 CU 500 MHz Radeon.
I now think the two module Jaguar in PS4 uses around 15 watts or lower. The Pro also probably uses a similar amount of watts under the assumption there was a ~30% reduction in TDP going to 16nm that covers the 31% upclock.
Shin
Banned
That won't ever happen I think, by 2019 PS4P might be at what 5-7 mill out of a total user base of maybe 100m.
I wonder how viable a amplification/MxM system would be for consoles, where you just upgrade your GPU.
potatohead
Member
Yep
I'm hoping for 2020 for ps5 that would be huge but it will probably be 2019
My main dream is full bc with enhancements with PS4 games that would be legit and bring consoles ever closer to legacy support of games as on pc and older ps consoles
With x86 PlayStation can start that so I really hope it happens
I wasn't suggesting that there will be games that are exclusive to the PS4 Pro, just titles that were prototyped and designed in a world where the PS4 Pro is already a known quantity. Guerrilla and others have talked about finding out about the Pro in mid-production and having to adapt to it. Games like God of War and Spider-Man will have had more time to accommodate the newer hardware, but something like Death Stranding will have been built from the ground up in the PS4 Pro era.
Negotiator
Member
The minimal CPU/RAM difference suggests that it's pointless to develop PS4 Pro exclusives. That's why Cerny has said that a new generation is also defined by a new CPU microarchitecture (aka Zen) and vastly bigger/faster RAM as well.
So, what would be the benefit of PS4 Pro exclusives? Higher GPGPU usage (better physics maybe?) because of the beefy GPU?
I mean, OG PS4 is already underutilized by the vast majority of 3rd party devs. GPGPU is still not the norm.
How many games are as optimized as Battlefield 1 (GPGPU-accelerated physics/destruction)? That's precisely the problem, not the lack of PS4 Pro exclusives. PS4 Pro was never designed to be a wholly new generation and contrary to the popular belief, the same applies to Scorpio as well.
Would people be happy if, for example, Microsoft ditched OG XB1 and made Scorpio exclusives? And then a few (2-3) years later down the line Sony released PS5 with a Zen CPU? Do you think that Scorpio exclusives would not be shackled by the relatively weaker Jaguar?
Hell, people tend to forget that even the lowly Jaguar is a generational leap compared to Cell's PPE in everything, apart from flops/SIMD performance. That's why games like Middle earth: Shadow of Mordor have vastly improved AI (Nemesis system) only on PS4/X1. PS3/XBOX 360 versions don't have the same AI system, even though people are misguided to believe that Cell/Xenon are "superior" CPUs (MHz myth).
http://kotaku.com/shadow-of-mordor-is-way-less-fun-on-old-consoles-1660387779
https://gamerant.com/middle-earth-shadow-mordor-next-gen-differences/
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...esis-system-handicapped-for-ps3-xbox-360.aspx
IIRC, it's 30 watts at 1.6 GHz and 50 watts at 2 GHz for 8 cores and 28nm. It's not as energy-efficient as ARM, but it's definitely better than the FX series.
Does the APU that you mentioned have throttling? Because console APUs need to have steady clocks when they run games (Switch is the same). Throttling can reduce TDP, but it would be disastrous while running a game.
The Albatross
Member
There's nothing theoretical about mass producing consumer electronics.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
VEGA was announced on iMac Pro 11tflop and 400gb/s bandwidth. I'd expect this minimum for PS5 in 2019.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
100% correct here.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Ps5 in 2018 wouldnt be impossible
Ps4 pro would be able to play its games but with worse graphics. The install base would be at 10 million + right from the start
Ps4 pro would be able to play its games but with worse graphics. The install base would be at 10 million + right from the start
Negotiator
Member
If PS5 games are engineered with Ryzen in mind, how would they run in a lesser CPU?
Unless you're talking about cross-gen games...
Sounds like what you are describing here is a PS4 Pro+ and not a PS5.
Shin
Banned
Just a job application for PSN, I wonder if they'll update it, now that PS3 was discontinued.
Also what's PlayStation®Original ?
schwabdizzle
Banned
I would love to see the PS5 next year, but then again I am running a OG PS4, so I am ready for a TRUE upgrade.
oh man, with all the advances in CPU/GPU/Memory going on these days, I'm super excited to see the potential of a PS5!
Marketing/message might make sense for a PS5 early announcement at this years E3, to curb excitement for Scorpio. Announce it for late 2018, but knowing that they'll delay until 2019 (or later?).
Generally ram goes up by 8x' generation to generation, GPU too.
So I would hope PS5 would have something like 8+Zen cores (16threads), 10+Tflops, 64GB+ HBM.
Being a AMD custom job as consoles generally are, and if they can push it back to 2019, and it can be on 7nm or better, hopefully that could be attainable. And that would be a sweet bump from this generation, even from the Pro.
Marketing/message might make sense for a PS5 early announcement at this years E3, to curb excitement for Scorpio. Announce it for late 2018, but knowing that they'll delay until 2019 (or later?).
Generally ram goes up by 8x' generation to generation, GPU too.
So I would hope PS5 would have something like 8+Zen cores (16threads), 10+Tflops, 64GB+ HBM.
Being a AMD custom job as consoles generally are, and if they can push it back to 2019, and it can be on 7nm or better, hopefully that could be attainable. And that would be a sweet bump from this generation, even from the Pro.
A 'PS5' released next year would not be a TRUE upgrade.
2019/2020 is the time required for a true next-generation leap.
RAM has increased 16x every generation of PlayStation console.
PS1 - 2MB
PS2 - 32MB
PS3 - 512MB
PS4 - 8 GB
Zombie James
Banned
Well, 128 GB RAM for PS5 seems a bit far fetched.
Depends on when it releases. Back in 2011 everyone was saying 8GB would be nuts, to put it mildly.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
In fairness, cell was never utilised to its full potential as a CPU as it's performance had to be sacrificed to allow it to try and make up for how shit the RSX GPU part from Nvidia was.
I agree on everything else though, just thought it was worthwhile to point that out.
Shin
Banned
Looking at the shitstorm that's going on I highly doubt they'll use HBM, even high-end GPU's are going with GDDR6. It's an expensive mess...literally.
I'm really curious what PlayStation Originals is, it's copyrighted and nothing came up on Google, unannounced service?
Negotiator
Member
What do you mean by that?
Cell was not just a CPU. It was a traditional CPU (PPE) with SIMD co-processors (SPUs). A proto-APU/heterogeneous processor if you will.
Cell as a whole (PPE + SPUs) was utilized to its full potential in plenty of games, mainly 1st party ones (Naughty Dog, Santa Monica etc.)
AMD is going to be pushing HBM hard. I think we'll see 32gb total of either HBM or GDDR6. Hopefully GDDR6 can provide the bandwidth necessary to feed both CPU and GPU since it'll be less expensive.
PS Originals could be some PSN exclusive TV shows or something.
Omnistalgic
Member
I'm in the PS5 for 2020 camp...
Honestly, new hardware is the last thing I need for a while. This generation is really just starting to differentiate itself with titles like Horizon and last year's Uncharted 4. Really, as beautiful as UC4 was, Horizon is the first game where I felt like I couldn't play something like this on last gen. It was ridiculous polished and impressive in an open, giant environment.
I need a few break away titles like that in a few genres before I'm thinking about new hardware. No need for PS5 until 2020.
Honestly, new hardware is the last thing I need for a while. This generation is really just starting to differentiate itself with titles like Horizon and last year's Uncharted 4. Really, as beautiful as UC4 was, Horizon is the first game where I felt like I couldn't play something like this on last gen. It was ridiculous polished and impressive in an open, giant environment.
I need a few break away titles like that in a few genres before I'm thinking about new hardware. No need for PS5 until 2020.
Shin
Banned
It should, I did the math with 24-32GB GDDR6 in mind and on the lowest to highest bandwidth capable, since JEDEC hasn't published the specs yet. Can see it on this page or the previous.
PlayStation Original is game related because there are other positions available at Gaikai also that covered it.
:lol
Before I clicked that link, I thought; Crytek and their requests for next-gen? I remember that. I wonder if wrote something there myself. Don't dare to look.
But 128 GB in 2020? I wouldn't complain, but yeah... Let's pretend we're 3.5 years away from PS5 release, doesn't 128 GB seems like an extremely high cost for the total BOM, even in late 2020?
Shin
Banned
It is and that's not realistic at all since RAM is the 2nd highest part in a console price wise.
Even now the max GPU's use in 4K is rare occurrence at 10GB or something, one could argue that even 16GB would be sufficient with some cheap RAM for the OS (a la PS4P).
Good call, my misake. 128GB it is then!
Well... not everyone.
Well played. One of the few times a self quote on this forum has a valid reason.
It'd be interesting to compare how much ram is dedicated to the "system", over the course of the last few generations.
I'd venture to guess the increase in that memory pool has exponentially increased. Sooo.... if that trend continues (lol), we'd need like 512GB's of ram, just to get a significant amount of ram for the games!
I'd venture to guess the increase in that memory pool has exponentially increased. Sooo.... if that trend continues (lol), we'd need like 512GB's of ram, just to get a significant amount of ram for the games!
\s
Hope the PS5 releases in 2019 instead of 2018, tbh. I mean, the PS4 Pro released in 2016, at least give people that have bought it some time to enjoy it.
Then in early to mid 2018 announce a new system.
I think the original plan by Crazy Ken was for the PS3 to not have a GPU, just the Cell doing all the work. It didn't work, so they delayed it a full year and probably got a comparatively worse deal due to the lack of time to customize the whole thing.
Then in early to mid 2018 announce a new system.
I think the original plan by Crazy Ken was for the PS3 to not have a GPU, just the Cell doing all the work. It didn't work, so they delayed it a full year and probably got a comparatively worse deal due to the lack of time to customize the whole thing.
Shin
Banned
Don't know if this answers your question but 5.5GB available to games on PS4, 2x256mb on PS3 (system and gpu) the rest would require more research.
Negotiator
Member
It used to be 120MB (combined XDR + GDDR3 allocation) and it was brought down to 50MB.
https://www.engadget.com/2010/02/23/70mb-of-additional-ram-unlocked-for-ps3-developers/
The later PS5 comes out the better. PS4 is great as it is, I want some time to actually enjoy it and get my money's worth. Plus when the new console comes out it's always a year of ports and crappy first attempt games, we finally got past that this gen so let's enjoy it. Not to mention coming out later means more time for the technology to improve and feel more worthwhile.
Monkeyball
Banned
I wonder how Sony is going to deal with Scorpio the coming weeks.
FearlessBelgian
Member
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