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[Sword Of Doom]

27% is 65% of 41%, not 50. So there is a 35% higher preference for PS4. It's still more than "slight", but let's not get out of hand with the number rounding to make your point.

41% is 50% more than 27%. That's how you're supposed to calculate it. Cause in order to get to 41% you need to add 14+27 and 14 is slightly more than 50% of 27.

Edit: For example, that's how you come up with 54% is 100% more than 27% because 27 + 27 = 54 and 27 is 100% of 27

Edit: so we can say 27 is 65% of 41 but 41 is approximatel 50% more than 27.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Coming soon

Spoiler

maybe, keep holding on, just trust us

: more power.

Microsoft are hilarious, they truly are.

 

[Perkel]

Microsoft isn't comparing themselves to the PS4 in this article, the people on here are doing that.

It doesn't matter what MS does. What matter is what is happening. Which is why i said what i said. It is imo dumb from MS perspective to release information on their specs instead of focusing on games and features.

They don't gain anything from that. They only loose potential clients.

 

[badb0y]

I thought they were streaming someone else playing Killzone, not running the game in background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaPoLJyDZmM

He was watching someone's stream then joined the game.

 

[BigDug13]

41% is 50% more than 27%. That's how you're supposed to calculate it. Cause in order to get to 41% you need to add 14+27 and 14 is slightly more than 50% of 27.

Edit: For example, that's how you come up with 54% is 100% more than 27% because 27 + 27 = 54 and 27 is 100% of 27

Sure, I phrased it wrong. XBO has 35% less interest than PS4 is how it should have been phrased and PS4 has 54% greater interest than XBO.

 

[Chobel]

We'll be publishing the entirety of our interview with the Xbox One architects this weekend, covering off topics including the Xbox 360 post-mortem, Microsoft's approach to GPU compute, the innovative approach to virtualisation, the choice of CPU architecture and much, much more. Over 7,500 words in total, and essential reading for anyone interested in the technological make-up of Microsoft's next-generation console.

Can't wait for this, especially the part about virtualisation.

 

[Barzul]

I don't really get the "take over the living room" stance either. How can any device take over the living room when it has an additional subscription required before you can access your subscription-based media apps?

I mean currently only about 25 million 360 owners can use media functions (Gold subscribers), while there is nothing stopping all 75 million PS3 owners from using their machine as a media box for no additional cost.
(PS3 is the number one most used Netflix streaming device in the world)

If this is Microsoft's bright idea to face off against Roku, AppleTV, PS4, and even VitaTV for living room media functions, they need to try harder.

The taking over the living component is because it also plays the newest games. You just can't piece parts of the value proposition. You need to consider the whole thing. They are doing things that simply cannot be replicated as easily on other devices. Xbox Fitness for example and some of the interactive TV content like NFL stuff and that Rabbids tv show/game hybrid (I expect we'll see more this). This then combined with the ability to play games on the device is what makes it appealing. I can understand if none of this appeals to you.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Sure, I phrased it wrong. XBO has 35% less interest than PS4 is how it should have been phrased and PS4 has 54% greater interest than XBO.

Sorry I made a mess of my reply trying to explain. Anyways, the point being IGN was minimizing the significance of the numbers in their title.

 

[IN&OUT]

X1 successor will be MONSTER for sure after this fiasco*


*if there is a successor to X1.

 

[BigDug13]

The taking over the living component is because it also plays the newest games. You just can't piece parts of the value proposition. You need to consider the whole thing. They are doing things that simply cannot be replicated as easily on other devices. Xbox Fitness for example and some of the interactive TV content like NFL stuff and that Rabbids tv show/game hybrid (I expect we'll see more this). This then combined with the ability to play games on the device is what makes it appealing. I can understand if none of this appeals to you.

Sure those new features, by all means lock them behind the paywall. But when faced with a fierce competitor in Sony, why not match them feature for feature? Why is fucking internet browsing subscription required? Why does Netflix need both the Netflix subscription AND Gold? Why will Elder Scrolls cost people $20 per month on Xbox and only $15 per month on PS4? Why can I only play FREE to play games for FREE on one of the two consoles?

Sorry I made a mess of my reply trying to explain. Anyways, the point being IGN was minimizing the significance of the numbers in their title.

Yeah true, even 35% is too high to simply say "slight advantage" like IGN is saying.

 

[Skenzin]

My God.. The head to head comparison are gonna melt down the interwebs. I look forward to The days of lazy forced parity no secret sauce using Dev bashes..

BTW all Xbox one news is depressing.

 

[B_Boss]

It is not. Beside superior additional ACE to pretty much every GPU on PC market we see here basically 7850-7870 here. That is mid tier GPU and PS4 GPU is clocked lower than PC GPUs

API naturally is different thing
Its being APU is naturally also different thing (no stronger APU on market)

Unless there is a standard specified, the PS4 is either "not powerful" or "far powerful". You're using PC's and 7850-7870 as a standard. If I use the PS3/360/XB1 as a standard then I'd imagine that the PS4 is a powerful console, etc.

You're probably not "old" to a 90 year old man, but you certainly are to a 1 year old. I guess that was my point.

 

[Biker19]

So all of the power in the PS4 won't help the system for features outside of gaming?

Sony has their own large branches that make music and movies, yet nothing about the PS4 was designed with media outside of gaming in mind? Even though there isn't much outside of the Playstation consoles that sells well when it comes to Sony products?

Yes, MS made many decisions for features outside of gaming too but at the end of the day, both consoles will more than likely go toe to toe when it comes to features outside of gaming with the main differences being in implementation and/or interface. Both companies want similar living room goals.

Good grief, you're still not getting it.

 

[Bgamer90]

But the fact that the games are pushing you towards buying the weaker console isn't really the point of this particular thread. And what I said about where the Xbox brand was positioned spec-wise when it was first introduced and with the 360 and compare it now to where the Xbox brand is positioned spec-wise and it's night and day.

So to use historical Xbox launches as some sort of basis to paint a similar picture isn't accurate from a spec perspective.

You were the one to bring up all of the previous Xbox systems first. I was just replying to what you said.

They had the graphical edge every other time and they used it to their advantage. Now they are charging more money for a significantly weaker console.

Really wouldn't said they used it to their advantage -- at least in my opinion. The PS2 outclassed the original Xbox when it came to games.

It's like if the PS2 came out at the same time as the Xbox and the PS2 decided to be nearly 50% weaker graphically AND $100 more expensive.

Well, the majority of people bought a PS2 after the Gamecube for games that came out after the Gamecube launched, even though the Gamecube was cheaper and more powerful.

In the end, it's all about content being able to compete in terms of quality -- as it always has been in terms of competing consoles.

It's a dynamic that has never existed for the Xbox brand to be weaker and more expensive. Ever.

But it has been the case with certain previous consoles, with those consoles still doing fairly well and having impressive games (in both actual gameplay quality and looks). Same can (and will more than likely) be the case with the Xbox One.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

both systems will be multimedia machines the can also run console games
.

Actually the PS4 is a gaming system that does multimedia and the XB1 is a Multimedia System that does Gaming.

Microsoft and Sony made their positions very clear at their reveals

 

[Bgamer90]

Good grief, you're still not getting it.

What am I not getting?

My post was simply me making the point that Sony cares about the "living room" just as MS cares about the "living room" (after being told that I was wrong).

With there being so much blatant evidence of Sony positioning their console(s) as media devices, I find the criticism for simply pointing out that Sony wants the living room too to be funny. They have the more powerful console, and I stated that. However, I'm pretty sure that power isn't going to be only beneficial for games. That, (on top of what I said above) is all that I stated. Funny that I got some here riled up as if I said something controversial.

 

[Bgamer90]

Actually the PS4 is a gaming system that does multimedia and the XB1 is a Multimedia System that does Gaming.

Microsoft and Sony made their positions very clear at their reveals

You say this when yet both systems will be getting many of the same games alongside their own gaming exclusives covering the same genres.

Your view which is obviously based on how both consoles were advertised early on is shortsighted but yet at the same time shows that core gamers can be just as influenced by what companies state/say as the other categories of gamers that they make fun of.

 

[SwiftDeath]

My God.. The head to head comparison are gonna melt down the interwebs. I look forward to The days of lazy forced parity no secret sauce using Dev bashes..

BTW all Xbox one news is depressing.

Seriously

I don't know for sure what will happen across multiplats but damn if it isn't going to cause a frenzy on Gaf (and probably everywhere else too)

Launch can't come soon enough

 

[Tsundere]

You say this when yet both systems will be getting many of the same games alongside their own gaming exclusives covering the same genres.

Your view which is obviously based on how both consoles were advertised early on is shortsighted but yet at the same time shows that core gamers can be just as influenced by what companies state/say as the other categories of gamers that they make fun of.

Most PCs can run all the same Pc games, but only some would qualify as Gaming machines. Same thing here.

 

[Skeff]

You say this when yet both systems will be getting many of the same games alongside their own gaming exclusives covering the same genres.

Your view which is obviously based on how both consoles were advertised early on is shortsighted but yet at the same time shows that core gamers can be just as influenced by what companies state/say as the other categories of gamers that they make fun of.

It's nothing to do with advertising, it's the architecture of the systems.

One picked 8gb for apps, the other picked a faster Ram set up with more on die room for GPU and it turned out they got 8gb ram.

In 2010 or so, this is how the consoles stood:

XB1: 8gb RAM for media and games.
PS4: 2gb RAM for games as it's faster.

There are media compromises in the xb1 that simply aren't in the PS4.such as slower ram, which in turn means less GPU grunt.

The PS4 machine was created purely to play games, they left the media stuff to the software team.

The XB1 always had media as a bullet point for the hardware.

 

[PdotMichael]

Actually the PS4 is a gaming system that does multimedia and the XB1 is a Multimedia System that does Gaming.

Microsoft and Sony made their positions very clear at their reveals

Funny, that most of the multimedia features of the One aren't available outside of the USA.

 

[MichaelC]

It's nothing to do with advertising, it's the architecture of the systems.

One picked 8gb for apps, the other picked a faster Ram set up with more on die room for GPU and it turned out they got 8gb ram.

In 2010 or so, this is how the consoles stood:

XB1: 8gb RAM for media and games.
PS4: 2gb RAM for games as it's faster.

There are media compromises in the xb1 that simply aren't in the PS4.such as slower ram, which in turn means less GPU grunt.

The PS4 machine was created purely to play games, they left the media stuff to the software team.

The XB1 always had media as a bullet point for the hardware.

I don't understand how having 8 gigabytes of RAM in 2010 was a "media compromise".

 

[Stillmatic]

Xbox 360 GPU 240 GFLOPS for games ,Xbox One GPU 1179 GFLOPS for games

Xbox One = 939 GFLOPS advantage over the Xbox 360




Xbox One GPU 1179 GFLOPS for games , PS4 GPU 1843 GFLOPS for games

PS4 = 664 GFLOPS advantage over the Xbox One for games.

So currently:

Xbone: 1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games
Xbone: 768 Shaders
Xbone: 48 Texture units
Xbone: 16 ROPS
Xbone: 2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4: 1.84TF GPU ( 18 CUs) for games + 56%
PS4: 1152 Shaders +50%
PS4: 72 Texture units +50%
PS4: 32 ROPS + 100%
PS4: 8 ACE/64 queues +400%

Looks unbalanced to me.

Seeing it laid out like that is pretty damning, hopefully MS can bring some of their reserved numbers down.

What's with all the DF articles lately anyway? Instead of focusing on trying to make it look like MS is closing the gap, I'd be much more interested in reading what they think the more powerful hardware would be capable.

 

[ethomaz]

Funny the LOLtaku was right in this one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565505

 

[nib95]

Funny the LOLtaku was right in this one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565505

Kotaku has been on the money on a lot of stuff lately. Their sources are pretty strong.

 

[TrojanBlade]

That's the funny thing about this entire fiasco. 10% unlocked? Gap closed!

 

[chadskin]

I thought they were streaming someone else playing Killzone, not running the game in background.

Damn, you're right. Must've mistaken it somehow. Maybe it's visible in another XMB video?

 

[Skeff]

I don't understand how having 8 gigabytes of RAM in 2010 was a "media compromise".

Because to guarantee 8gb of RAM, it meant the XB1 had to use DDR3, instead of a faster GDDR5 found in the PS4.

Because of this it meant that the XB1 had to use esram to up the bandwidth as the DDR3 was just too slow.

Because there was esram on the APU die, there was only enough space for this 1.31TFlop GPU with 16 ROP's.

Once they made the decision to go with 8gb DDR3, they decided they were guaranteeing it for media, which meant the Gaming performance of the machine was compromised.

 

[frizby]

Imagine Walmart, or some other very large supermarket.

Now imagine Walmart with 100's of checkout lanes. Each lane checks out (processes) a customer.

An ACE is one of those people that tell you a lane is open, so you don't have to wait in line.

The more ACE's you have, the more customers can get told to go to an empty or short line to get checked out. That makes the store more productive.

So basically, the ACE tells data where to go and into which line for it to be processed in the best way possible.

I actually learned something in a tech thread. Thanks.

 

[kasane]

Mine too:

http://th.interia.pl/10,b63e611f21605790/jim_carrey_ace_ventura.gif

That image hurts my eyes

 

[MichaelC]

Because to guarantee 8gb of RAM, it meant the XB1 had to use DDR3, instead of a faster GDDR5 found in the PS4.

Because of this it meant that the XB1 had to use esram to up the bandwidth as the DDR3 was just too slow.

Because there was esram on the APU die, there was only enough space for this 1.31TFlop GPU with 16 ROP's.

Once they made the decision to go with 8gb DDR3, they decided they were guaranteeing it for media, which meant the Gaming performance of the machine was compromised.

Ah i see.

edit: But you could also say that Sony added all that extra ram since then for the same exact reasons. They did not want to be left out of that piece of the pie. I have a lot of trouble believing that they went from 2 to 8 purely for the games and nothing else.

 

[phosphor112]

I actually learned something in a tech thread. Thanks.

No problem. =]

I like helping people understand. I didn't learn just by reading a bunch of big words and numbers.

 

[gamechanger87]

You say this when yet both systems will be getting many of the same games alongside their own gaming exclusives covering the same genres.

Your view which is obviously based on how both consoles were advertised early on is shortsighted but yet at the same time shows that core gamers can be just as influenced by what companies state/say as the other categories of gamers that they make fun of.

I agree with all of your comments in this thread. I think people seem to forget that in E3 Sony went heavy on multimedia.

They both want the same thing, the entire living room.

 

[frizby]

No problem. =]

I like helping people understand. I didn't learn just by reading a bunch of big words and numbers.

Until now, I thought tech threads were only about memorizing arguments, asking snarky questions and getting banned.

 

[IN&OUT]

Because to guarantee 8gb of RAM, it meant the XB1 had to use DDR3, instead of a faster GDDR5 found in the PS4.

Because of this it meant that the XB1 had to use esram to up the bandwidth as the DDR3 was just too slow.

Because there was esram on the APU die, there was only enough space for this 1.31TFlop GPU with 16 ROP's.

Once they made the decision to go with 8gb DDR3, they decided they were guaranteeing it for media, which meant the Gaming performance of the machine was compromised.

Question Skeff about the bolded part.

Does APUs have a fixed size, I mean is it impossible for AMD to create a bigger APU?

this logic indicate that PS4 APU will be the most powerful forever, until we have DDR4 or smaller more efficient GPUs.

 

[Perkel]

Unless there is a standard specified, the PS4 is either "not powerful" or "far powerful". You're using PC's and 7850-7870 as a standard. If I use the PS3/360/XB1 as a standard then I'd imagine that the PS4 is a powerful console, etc.

You're probably not "old" to a 90 year old man, but you certainly are to a 1 year old. I guess that was my point.

Standard is PC tech. It always have been. 7850-7870 is mid tier cards you can buy for your PC and PS4 have basically 7850-7870 feature wise (+more ACE/ques)

 

[Perkel]

Question Skeff about the bolded part.

Does APUs have a fixed size, I mean is it impossible for AMD to create a bigger APU?

this logic indicate that PS4 APU will be the most powerful forever, until we have DDR4 or smaller more efficient GPUs.

They won't redesign APU in future. This is what we get for next 4-7 years. What can change is node. APU will shrink in future but it won't change its performance or features.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Funny the LOLtaku was right in this one

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565505

Yeah they were right. And let's face it, microsoft has been really leaky regarding the xbox one.
Go back a year or so, and everything that was being said about it was true, from specs to policies.

 

[IN&OUT]

They won't redesign APU in future. This is what we get for next 4-7 years. What can change is node. APU will shrink in future but it won't change its performance or features.

ha, in this case Sony has struck gold with AMD. great deal indeed.

 

[ethomaz]

Yeah they were right. And let's face it, microsoft has been really leaky regarding the xbox one.
Go back a year or so, and everything that was being said about it was true, from specs to policies.

Do you mean the people that didn't want to believe in the leaks? Like they expected more or anything like?

 

[phosphor112]

Until now, I thought tech threads were only about memorizing arguments, asking snarky questions and getting banned.

Sadly, it's still mostly that. That's why I'm kind of annoyed that some of the stuff I mentioned earlier in this thread hasn't been properly discussed. Oh well.

 

[LCfiner]

Do you mean the people that didn't want to believe in the leaks? Like they expected more or anything like?

I remember no one wanted to believe the initial DRM policy leaks. I can’t remember reactions to tech spec leaks, though.

 

[EmptySpace]

ms' "negotiations" with leadbetter.

translation:
"this chap wants a raise? hey, you better write the article and make the xbone look positive! right now!"

 

[Sword Of Doom]

You say this when yet both systems will be getting many of the same games alongside their own gaming exclusives covering the same genres.

Your view which is obviously based on how both consoles were advertised early on is shortsighted but yet at the same time shows that core gamers can be just as influenced by what companies state/say as the other categories of gamers that they make fun of.

Ummm no. Me personally I come to the conclusion that the Xbox One is not a gaming system first based on what they prioritized when designing and building the system. If they had focused more on gaming we would not be having these discussion about the major power gap between the consoles.

That's not even considering the fact that MS has been constantly referring to the XB1 as an all in one entertainment center.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Do you mean the people that didn't want to believe in the leaks? Like they expected more or anything like?

Well, yeah, that happened too, but I was just pointing out that by the time we had the official announcement and the e3 show rolled around, we already knew 90% of what it was.

 

[IN&OUT]

Sadly, it's still mostly that. That's why I'm kind of annoyed that some of the stuff I mentioned earlier in this thread hasn't been properly discussed. Oh well.

Don't worry Phosphore112, once the green camp accept reality, we will be back discussing technical knowledge. majority of tech threads are full of PR/FUD that needs to be cleared.

 

[Bgamer90]

The PS4 machine was created purely to play games, they left the media stuff to the software team.

Not buying it and/or agreeing with it. The PS4's power will help with OS features will it not?

Many of these features will be used outside of gaming though that's not to say that good software design will help too. Both areas are going to go hand in hand in terms of keeping things smooth when using various features of the console (outside of gaming).

Most PCs can run all the same Pc games, but only some would qualify as Gaming machines. Same thing here.

It all comes down to how a person uses the system does it not?

I mean heck, if we took this logic to even greater lengths then it would be like saying the PS2 was a DVD movie player than just happened to play games since the latter is the main reason why it sold so well during its first full year after it released.

Companies can set up various things about their products in terms of how they want to get mainstream success but in the end, the users themselves will obviously play the biggest role in how the products will be used.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Xbox One: “You FOOL! This isnt even my final form! Wait until you see my TRUE power!"

At least Microsoft has been forced into being proactive about this stuff after getting curb stomped at E3.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

I feel like I need to dig up old Xbox 360 rants about Playstation 3 ports been inferior and how that was the worst thing ever.

I mean if it was the Playstation 4 that was going to be recieving shitty ports, it would be justified to say 'so the PS4 will get worst ports, doesn't matter the games are the same' because to be honest that's what they've been saying all last generation.

But to have the whole argument turned over. We now have the ones attacking sub-720p, "blurry" textures and dodgy framerate ... trying to justify a weaker system.

It's ... ironic.

 

[Skeff]

Question Skeff about the bolded part.

Does APUs have a fixed size, I mean is it impossible for AMD to create a bigger APU?

this logic indicate that PS4 APU will be the most powerful forever, until we have DDR4 or smaller more efficient GPUs.

They can make APU's as big as they like, but as you increase the size of the APU, the failure rate becomes higher, if one thing on the chip doesn't work then the whole chip is for the bin(unless you have designed a redundancy like the 14 CU's in xb1(12 used) or the likely 20 in PS4(18 used) or the 8 SPE's in Cell(only 7 used)).

IMO, and I would assume Microsoft's too, the XB1 APU is as big as you can get, without the yields plummeting. The size of the APU is the reason why everyone was so willing to listen to the yield rumors.