Digital Foundry - PlayStation 5: When Can Sony Deliver A True Generational Leap?

Mar 31, 2014
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#51
will i be able to play my ps3/ps4 games on it?


or will my digital purchases be obsolete like they were with my ps3 digital games this gen?
Probably PS4, probably not PS3, imo. The architecture will look a lot like the PS4 which looked not at all like the PS3, so PS3 titles will need some retooling as they currently do (often SPU code is ported to GPU compute, PS3 being so frickin weird code doesn't simply run even on much more powerful hardware without moving stuff around)

PS3 titles already ported to the PS4 may work.
 
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Likes: Zannegan
Aug 30, 2006
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#53
The next gen will be more about what the CPUs bring to game design verses a massive visual upgrade over what we see with the refreshed systems. 4K with impressive texture filtering will be table stakes, sort of like 1080p is now (sorry base XB1...).

We may well start to see 4K60 as a more common thing, given that at 6TF XB1X more often than not delivers a pretty clean 4K30. But massive jumps in visuals will not necessarily be easily discernible on screen given that the systems will really only be twice as powerful as the current refreshed machines.

In essence, next gen should deliver the excellent image quality and visual polish we've become accustomed to this generation, along with hopefully some truly new experiences tied to vastly improved CPU capability. Consider what GTA6 could *really* be in delivering a better simulated city.

Where we'll see next gen start to feel long in the tooth and somewhat inadequate is when in 3 or 4 years expectations for VR increase, where users will want 4K per eye, with the expected 90 FPS (or even higher) threshold intact. I think that's probably where we'll see growing pressure for a PS5 Pro style machine around 2022ish.
Absolutely no. The assets for next gen consoles will be builded natively for them, and there will be a drastic difference in the detail, the actual mid gen refresh are only upres consoles but the today games are still builded from base ps4 from 2013 with some thing touched up here and there for the midgen refresh. ;)
 
Likes: Swizzle
Jun 5, 2011
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#54
With XBX being a PS4 copy, since that ditched esram, what will distinguish the PS5 from the next Xbox? If the release at the same time they will be clones.
 
Mar 31, 2014
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#55
With XBX being a PS4 copy, since that ditched esram, what will distinguish the PS5 from the next Xbox? If the release at the same time they will be clones.
What happens is that we get used to console hardware getting less esoteric and with less space between stationary hardware. I'm sure cross platform developers don't mind, and that leaves it up to first party titles to really shine.



I do miss how interesting hardware was at the start of the 7th gen, but I also don't mind this world where hardware is much the same and choices are down to first party titles (and friends).
 
Jan 3, 2018
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#56
I meant with regard to the PS4, ~3GHz being my guess at an upper bound for 1.8x, 1.4 would be 2.2GHz. Seems like a reasonable range.

SMT is an insubstantial die area at this point and I don't see why they'd take it out. The 7th gen had SMT, didn't remove it for variable performance reasons. Likely a developer could toggle it on or off, but I see no reason to permanently remove the hardware, in x86 at least it's been pretty key at extracting more IPC out of wider designs.

Mobile Ryzen has Turbo Core and if cooling can provide, can run at clock speeds well higher than base, pretty consistently even in laptops if there's no GPU load, in a console it would have more cooling. A console designer would likely remove the variable nature of turbo core and reel in the top end while bringing up the bottom end while deciding on a stable clock. They can boost up to 3.8GHz, a console won't sustain that, but settling on 3GHz seems doable especially in another fab node shrink, just 500Mhz up from the current base clock while taking away boosts above it.


Even running a touch conservative on all areas, it seems this will be in the ballpark of 7-8G CPU changes. The very lowest tiers of Zen at the same clocks as Jaguar still offer nearly twice the IPC, and clock speed bumps compound the gains. I don't think Xenos - Jaguar even with so many more cores was in excess of a 4x gain in most areas (in paper Gflops it was a slight regression, but a game doesn't just do SIMD all day).

If your reference point is the XBO X, with its 31% Jaguar clock bump it ebbs away at some of the gain, but there's still a decent one to be had.
I totally disagree on that,

3.2 would be absolutely minimum using Zen 2. 3.6 with 3.9 boost is what my opinion but wouldn’t be surprised to see 3.9 with boosts above 4. Just the leaked Zen+ show how scalable and sustainable the Zen arch is. At 7nm I think around 4 is reasonable.
 
Mar 31, 2014
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#57
I totally disagree on that,

3.2 would be absolutely minimum using Zen 2. 3.6 with 3.9 boost is what my opinion but wouldn’t be surprised to see 3.9 with boosts above 4. Just the leaked Zen+ show how scalable and sustainable the Zen arch is. At 7nm I think around 4 is reasonable.
I doubt consoles will use turbo core. It would make performance unpredictable as it's meant to use any overhead in thermal capacity. Instead my bet would be they'll find a stable clock speed between the base and boost clocks of the regular part and set it where it can stay 100% of the time.

See the Switch. The Shield TV can run higher, but after extensive throttling testing it seems to settle down around where Nintendo set it.

Consoles want predictable performance for developers to make the most of.

3GHz, by the way, was me being conservative to show how substantial the gain over the 8th gen will be to someone else, I do hope it's as high as possible without making a jet out of it of course. Double the IPC, 1.8x the clock speed, SMT, these are already significant gains over the 8th gen, any clock speed over that would be gravy.
 
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Likes: Zannegan
Apr 17, 2007
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#58
Oh look, DF saying the exact same thing i did in the other thread. MS will release in the same timeframe as Sony. As much as people want to think MS is done with generations, its time to wake up to reality. Thats gotta suck for the people that bought the One X thinking they won’t have to buy another one until 2021.
 

TLZ

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#59
Oh look, DF saying the exact same thing i did in the other thread. MS will release in the same timeframe as Sony. As much as people want to think MS is done with generations, its time to wake up to reality. Thats gotta suck for the people that bought the One X thinking they won’t have to buy another one until 2021.
Their words aren't gospel though and they're guessing just as we are.
 
Aug 29, 2007
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#60
I would love to see Sony release a console next year and have MS casually wait a year to put something better out at the same price or lower. There is no need for MS to be so quick if it comes at the expense of releasing something nearly identical to whatever the ps5 will be in my opinion. Sony feels the heat of knowing the xbox one x is a better console than the ps4 pro. And while sony is dominating this gen, given time there will be some very compelling games for the 1X. Sony wants to cut the 1X's glory short i think.
 
Mar 31, 2014
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#61
Oh look, DF saying the exact same thing i did in the other thread. MS will release in the same timeframe as Sony. As much as people want to think MS is done with generations, its time to wake up to reality. Thats gotta suck for the people that bought the One X thinking they won’t have to buy another one until 2021.
Hardware release in that timeframe still wouldn't confirm one way or another if they will have to buy a new box though; possibly Microsoft goes for latest + previous box support at all times instead of generations. Seems like what they've been signalling.
 
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Apr 7, 2006
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Oh look, DF saying the exact same thing i did in the other thread. MS will release in the same timeframe as Sony. As much as people want to think MS is done with generations, its time to wake up to reality. Thats gotta suck for the people that bought the One X thinking they won’t have to buy another one until 2021.
Remember a poster said from the other thread that XBONEX will muddy the waters for a PS5 because it's such a behemoth of power and engineering,.....that thread eh!

Still NXGamer has given his take and perspective as well, so these last few weeks, PS5 has definitely been on the minds of everyone, maybe it's all these threads and discussions based on the rumors etc....

 
Likes: demigod

J4K

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Sep 14, 2017
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#63
Absolutely no. The assets for next gen consoles will be builded natively for them, and there will be a drastic difference in the detail, the actual mid gen refresh are only upres consoles but the today games are still builded from base ps4 from 2013 with some thing touched up here and there for the midgen refresh. ;)
Err no. Consoles typically get assets downgraded from PC ultra-high settings, if multi-platform. First party games may be made to target a very specific capability, but most third parties games are already made to scale -- and that includes up to hardware that can handle it. You're frankly just wrong.
 
Aug 30, 2006
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Err no. Consoles typically get assets downgraded from PC ultra-high settings, if multi-platform. First party games may be made to target a very specific capability, but most third parties games are already made to scale -- and that includes up to hardware that can handle it. You're frankly just wrong.
i don't count multiplatform games, they are useless for me, never used to define the graphic of a generation of console from a long time. For the exclusives, assets are created for the ps4/xbox one base in mind , and scaled up for the respective mid gen resfreshes, with added something here and there, engine permitting. Next generation hardware will have assets created specifically for it, so it's just ridicuolus thinking that there will be no difference compared to the higher res versions of the actually games and only the cpu will make the difference. There will be tons of new shader effects, global illumination, geometry increase, fidelity and physics that are completely impossible to run on actual hardware in the same way if not scaled down. Like every generation.
 

Leonidas

"Ask me about computers"
Mar 6, 2007
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#65
i don't count multiplatform games, they are useless for me, never used to define the graphic of a generation of console from a long time. For the exclusives, assets are created for the ps4/xbox one base in mind , and scaled up for the respective mid gen resfreshes, with added something here and there, engine permitting. Next generation hardware will have assets created specifically for it, so it's just ridicuolus thinking that there will be no difference compared to the higher res versions of the actually games and only the cpu will make the difference. There will be tons of new shader effects, global illumination, geometry increase, fidelity and physics that are completely impossible to run on actual hardware in the same way if not scaled down. Like every generation.
X-enhanced games can and have already improved games in every way you just mentioned... also, what is the point of ignoring multi-platform games? Don't you believe that Hellblade, Assassins's Creed Origins and Battlefield 1 have some of the best graphics on this gen of consoles?
 
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Likes: LostDonkey
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#66
It's all a bit boring now, as in they're pretty much identical machines since Xb1 ps4 bar esram and more power in ones Gpu. It was more interesting before when they would be totally different machines all the way back to Sega Master System/Nintento Famicom upto Ps3 X360.
Edit Well for me C64 v Spectrum v Amstrad
 
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Nov 25, 2015
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OP covers my estimates.
Err no. Consoles typically get assets downgraded from PC ultra-high settings, if multi-platform. First party games may be made to target a very specific capability, but most third parties games are already made to scale -- and that includes up to hardware that can handle it. You're frankly just wrong.
No, this is incorrect. PC games are built with minimum specs in mind, if they weren’t then games would look a million times better on PC. (Yes, even better than the mods that release later on).
 
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Swizzle

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#69
The fact that these revisions have enough grunt to brute force some improvements in and look better than the non enhanced consoles says nothing about how they would perform with games written from the ground up for them (or how these consoles would look if HW 100% compatibility / extending the previous console was not the #1 priority).
 
Likes: luca_29_bg
Jan 17, 2018
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I would love to see Sony release a console next year and have MS casually wait a year to put something better out at the same price or lower. There is no need for MS to be so quick if it comes at the expense of releasing something nearly identical to whatever the ps5 will be in my opinion. Sony feels the heat of knowing the xbox one x is a better console than the ps4 pro. And while sony is dominating this gen, given time there will be some very compelling games for the 1X. Sony wants to cut the 1X's glory short i think.
What glory? X1X runs the same games as PS4/Pro and standard Xbox One, there won't be any exclusives to show how game build from the ground up for the system looks, it's MS fault to release console this late. MS needs to launch the same year as Sony if they want to be competitive, one year after PS5 release console will have like ~0.00001% chance to sell as much as Sony machine and even less to sell better. 12 months gap won't make Xbox much stronger if both consoles are 7nm (and at the same price), 11->13TF difference for example won't be much.
 
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Oct 24, 2017
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I would love to see Sony release a console next year and have MS casually wait a year to put something better out at the same price or lower. There is no need for MS to be so quick if it comes at the expense of releasing something nearly identical to whatever the ps5 will be in my opinion. Sony feels the heat of knowing the xbox one x is a better console than the ps4 pro. And while sony is dominating this gen, given time there will be some very compelling games for the 1X. Sony wants to cut the 1X's glory short i think.
Next gen consoles need to be released close to each other, or gamers will be the ones that will suffer the most.
No 3rd party dev is going to invest in developing a real next gen game if they have to target current gen of the other manufacturer at the same time. It's bad enough that the first 1-2 years of next gen will be gimped by cross-gen games having to run with the limitations of the base X1/ps4, if MS releases their next gen one year later, you are just adding 1 more year of games limited by lastgen to the count.
Sales of X1X are not a threat to anyone (neither are the sales of the Pro relevant for nextgen). Why would the sales of a niche console, that exists pretty much only in America threaten a company that has great sales worldwide? That is not how things work. Price and availability of new hw is the most important aspect and the progress of sales of the existant base hardware. If sales of Ps4 are not declining, why would they harm themselves by releasing a new console so soon?
 
Aug 29, 2007
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#72
What glory? X1X runs the same games as PS4/Pro and standard Xbox One, there won't be any exclusives to show how game build from the ground up for the system looks, it's MS fault to release console this late. MS needs to launch the same year as Sony if they want to be competitive, one year after PS5 release console will have like ~0.00001% chance to sell as much as Sony machine and even less to sell better. 12 months gap won't make Xbox much stronger if both consoles are 7nm (and at the same price), 11->13TF difference for example won't be much.
Games that run on the 1X look and run better in almost all cases of multiplat games. This is especially true when it's an xbox game running on the 1 versus the 1X. It's not even necessarily about all the games or exclusives. People know the 1X is a more powerful console. I already said that Sony is dominating this gen and there is nothing MS can do to come back, but that doesn't mean Sony likes having the 1X exist. It's a small thing, yes, but probably a lot like an annoying fly that they would love to swat if they could. And I disagree that MS needs to launch with the ps5. Sony already has the world wide appeal, the momentum from this gen, and more games. Do you really think MS releasing the next xbox is going to convince people to switch if all they do is release a similar spec'd system at the same time? Haha no, you're crazy if you believe that. Better to wait. MS is already in the dog house this gen. Better to wait a year and release an even more appealing system for the same price or less. Keep the one advantage that they have with the 1X imo. It's a long term strategy that I think would be far more beneficial, but that's me.
Next gen consoles need to be released close to each other, or gamers will be the ones that will suffer the most.
No 3rd party dev is going to invest in developing a real next gen game if they have to target current gen of the other manufacturer at the same time. It's bad enough that the first 1-2 years of next gen will be gimped by cross-gen games having to run with the limitations of the base X1/ps4, if MS releases their next gen one year later, you are just adding 1 more year of games limited by lastgen to the count.
Sales of X1X are not a threat to anyone (neither are the sales of the Pro relevant for nextgen). Why would the sales of a niche console, that exists pretty much only in America threaten a company that has great sales worldwide? That is not how things work. Price and availability of new hw is the most important aspect and the progress of sales of the existant base hardware. If sales of Ps4 are not declining, why would they harm themselves by releasing a new console so soon?
Again, it's not about sales for the time being. It's about having at least some advantage, the only advantage over the ps4 right now. It's a single bullet point that a lot of gamers care about, and literally the only selling point MS can flaunt. MS is hurting... and releasing a similarly spec'd system simultaneously with the ps5 isn't going to convince anyone to go out and buy the next xbox. MS needs to have something appealing and if that means waiting a year, then yes I think that it would make a monumental difference in the long run. If MS is already not making a lot of money, why not wait an extra year to make a more meaningful impact instead of releasing another system that playstation owners will dismiss because of a "lack" of exclusives? MS would find themselves in the exact same situation that they're already in if they do that, imo.
 
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May 25, 2013
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Why do you think that specific range? Performance/watt reasons or you know something?
Well, given that the trend has been towards more power efficiency compared to raw performance, I suspect Sony/MS will go for the same in the next gen. The RX 580-equivalent in the PS4 Pro is clocked at around 910 MHz, compared to a similar desktop RX 580 which usually runs at 1250.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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#74
X-enhanced games can and have already improved games in every way you just mentioned... also, what is the point of ignoring multi-platform games? Don't you believe that Hellblade, Assassins's Creed Origins and Battlefield 1 have some of the best graphics on this gen of consoles?
I don't see X games having better shader effects, more polygons, better physics over any machine this gen. Do you? These are the benefits of a true next generation system. What the XBONEX provides is an uplift in rez, most times with a dynamic scaler and sometimes with worse performance than other systems. At the very least, it's not like the XBONEX is doing all it's 4k games at ultra settings even, Far cry 5 has some settings on low etc to push 4k on X, so I don't see how you have concluded that XBONEX is doing similar things to what a new gen would.

FWIW; Asset Quality, AFiltering, actual 4k textures and not see-saw photogrammetry lods, PBR and lighting (even raytraced), volumetrics, physics, AI, Lod, drawdistance, expansive levels will boost up to a whole new level next gen, yet outside of the CPU driven features I mentioned, the uptick in asset quality and shader quality will be presented at a much higher IQ level. We're talking about 4k consistently, no DR (maybe 8k ceiling - 4k DR on some titles, just as we have 4k-1080p DR now), then 8k on indies and some AA games, all that with better AA solutions and the highest piqued AF....This means that games will be on a whole new stratosphere. I know it's difficult to imagine how much better games will look, seeing how awesome games look on 1.84TF in GOW, UC4/LL, Zero Dawn, DC, 1886, Detroit etc, but that's it innit?

1.84 TF to 18-20TF or even 15TF for those who are being conservative, is going to be a massive uptick in graphical advances and fidelity. Yet all that at a fluid 60fps is really going to be the biggest shift we've seen in a minute, devs actually making use of a good CPU+beefy GPU in a console. Nobody is making games to max out a 1080ti or Vega 64 now, the last time a PC dev maxed out a GPU you bought on day(1) was Crysis, when I bought a $600+ GTX 8800 Ultra. Removed from that time, the best looking games this gen are on the 1.84TF console, nobody is making dedicated PRO and XBONEX games, devs will only shift to ground up games on more powerful consoles next gen. The mid-gen consoles are just niche stopgaps for the hardcore seeking higher resolutions and a few more frames, they have not and will not define this generation. The next stop for ground up games on more powerful hardware than 1.84 or 1.31TF is when PS5 and XBONEX 2 launches in 2020.
 
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#75
Everything Richard said I already agreed with. 2020 sounds about right, or at least late 2019, 7nm is mature by then. Then you get Navi, Zen+, and Nextgen memory (I'm glad he doesn't know wtf that is either lol). Waiting any more than that won't see major gains until 2023+ with 5nm, and neither will want to lose two or three years of market share.

Even if Navi is behind schedule, again Richard brought up something I guessed at too, both the PS4 and PS4 Pro borrowed elements from future GPU pipelines, 8 ACEs and Vega memory compression respectively, so it could be Vega based but with Navis key features worst case, the die shrink will be the biggest thing anyways for more CU budget.

Incidentally, I really hope Sony switches to 5GHz wifi direct controllers, not interference prone bluetooth, also amps up the ARM coprocessor to be able to independently handle more without touching the APU.


I hope Ryzen's clocks aren't /too/ low, at the same clock as Jaguar it's still a boost but its higher clock capabilities are where it really runs away from Jaguar.

Lol supercomputers. Hype and bs never change.
 
Mar 31, 2014
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Lol supercomputers. Hype and bs never change.
Doesn't mean one core makes for a supercomputer, it just means the core scales from low power to massively parallel supercomputers. The statement is most literally true.

BS: PS3 is a supercomputer
Not BS: The Cell exists in various scales in both the PS3 and supercomputers

AMD is saying the latter. Zen literally does scale from fanless to supercomputers.
 
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#77
Doesn't mean one core makes for a supercomputer, it just means the core scales from low power to massively parallel supercomputers. The statement is most literally true.

BS: PS3 is a supercomputer
Not BS: The Cell exists in various scales in both the PS3 and supercomputers

AMD is saying the latter. Zen literally does scale from fanless to supercomputers.
It's still marketing bs. String enough of anything together and you can scale. People are believing the hype that zen and ryzen are going to end bottlenecks and everything will be 4k/60 fps because supercomputer and massive power.
 
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#78
Again, it's not about sales for the time being. It's about having at least some advantage, the only advantage over the ps4 right now. It's a single bullet point that a lot of gamers care about, and literally the only selling point MS can flaunt. MS is hurting... and releasing a similarly spec'd system simultaneously with the ps5 isn't going to convince anyone to go out and buy the next xbox. MS needs to have something appealing and if that means waiting a year, then yes I think that it would make a monumental difference in the long run. If MS is already not making a lot of money, why not wait an extra year to make a more meaningful impact instead of releasing another system that playstation owners will dismiss because of a "lack" of exclusives? MS would find themselves in the exact same situation that they're already in if they do that, imo.
Overall the impact of the gaming divisions in each company is different, therefore their approaches are different. The gaming division of Sony is probably the most profitable part of Sony atm, while for MS gaming is not as important.
MS has the most powerful console atm, but do all gamers even know that? I only know the X1X exists because of gaming forums and websites. I haven't seen a single TV or magazine advertisement for it, and xbox stuff is usually in a corner in stores where I live. But Sony adverts I see at least one per week.
Making a good console is not enough worldwide, they need to find a way to convince, at least EU gamers to feel interested in Xbox. I fear Asia is lost (even ps5 will struggle with Asia if Ps4 is an example)
 
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I doubt consoles will use turbo core. It would make performance unpredictable as it's meant to use any overhead in thermal capacity. Instead my bet would be they'll find a stable clock speed between the base and boost clocks of the regular part and set it where it can stay 100% of the time.

See the Switch. The Shield TV can run higher, but after extensive throttling testing it seems to settle down around where Nintendo set it.

Consoles want predictable performance for developers to make the most of.

3GHz, by the way, was me being conservative to show how substantial the gain over the 8th gen will be to someone else, I do hope it's as high as possible without making a jet out of it of course. Double the IPC, 1.8x the clock speed, SMT, these are already significant gains over the 8th gen, any clock speed over that would be gravy.
Boosting would make it unpredictable, but I also think it will be a very narrow window. I doubt games will require a constant high clock and feel it would be reserved in special circumstances. Basically It seems AMDs SenseMI would take a significant amount of the guess work away from Sony engineers. Having seen the leaks of the Zen+ cpus with SenseMI in action, I feel pretty comfortable in saying I could see a Zen 2 architecture boost above 4+ in a PS5 relatively comfortably and I would expect this is a feature which would be present in any APU that AMD would build for the next gen consoles.
 
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#80
X-enhanced games can and have already improved games in every way you just mentioned... also, what is the point of ignoring multi-platform games? Don't you believe that Hellblade, Assassins's Creed Origins and Battlefield 1 have some of the best graphics on this gen of consoles?
Yes, of course, these games you mentioned, they have good graphics, but not comparable to first party games, globally speaking. And for me, no, x-enchanced games doesn't have assets remade from the scratch, conceptually speaking, to use to the fullest the higher computanional power available and feature set available of the console. Same for ps4 pro. They provide an upres enhanced version of the same game, but the base is still made for the base console, where the game must still run. The games builded for next generation will not run in any way on this gen console.
 
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I hope they're right about the massive CPU bump. It would be nice to see improvements to gameplay and physics take the forefront again. A simplified version of the "Power of the Cloud" city destruction physics they used to show off Crackdown 3 running natively on the systems would be really exciting for me. Just imagine the next GTA Online. Lol.

I also hope they're right about ray tracing becoming a more mainstream rendering technique. I don't think we'll be seeing fully raytraced games yet, but every step in that direction is a good one IMO. It's a computationally expensive technology, but the results are amazing, and--correct me if I'm wrong here--it would actually simplify game development to an extent. It's too bad PowerVR isn't around to capitalize on its resurgence.
 
Sep 2, 2013
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Oh look, DF saying the exact same thing i did in the other thread. MS will release in the same timeframe as Sony. As much as people want to think MS is done with generations, its time to wake up to reality. Thats gotta suck for the people that bought the One X thinking they won’t have to buy another one until 2021.
I don't see MS launching yet another system in 2019. 2020 is earliest imo. X is plenty good enough to go along until 2020.
 
Mar 31, 2014
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#84
Boosting would make it unpredictable, but I also think it will be a very narrow window. I doubt games will require a constant high clock and feel it would be reserved in special circumstances. Basically It seems AMDs SenseMI would take a significant amount of the guess work away from Sony engineers. Having seen the leaks of the Zen+ cpus with SenseMI in action, I feel pretty comfortable in saying I could see a Zen 2 architecture boost above 4+ in a PS5 relatively comfortably and I would expect this is a feature which would be present in any APU that AMD would build for the next gen consoles.

Perhaps it could be like something that was rumored for the PS4 but didn't end up happening, letting devs choose between all cores active or half the cores at a higher boost speed if they need single threaded performance more.


Or if they do leave turbo core enabled, I should think the best thing to do is make developers work as if it's not, that way it could take away some of their shortcomings without them coming to lean on it when there's no thermal headroom (high GPU load, outside temperature, etc) and it runs at base.
 
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#85
Perhaps it could be like something that was rumored for the PS4 but didn't end up happening, letting devs choose between all cores active or half the cores at a higher boost speed if they need single threaded performance more.


Or if they do leave turbo core enabled, I should think the best thing to do is make developers work as if it's not, that way it could take away some of their shortcomings without them coming to lean on it when there's no thermal headroom (high GPU load, outside temperature, etc) and it runs at base.
The reason I'm leaning to standard clock speed is because from a development perspective it makes sense. If you're making your game for a PC you're going to need to optimize far less if the specs are basically the same. I definitely think turbo boosting will be available but like you pointed out with allowing devs access to more cpu resources mid-generation. If my memory serves me correctly some developers could work with MS and Sony directly before it was available for all devs to gain additional resources for special circumstances so I would expect initial use of boosting to be very limited and mostly unnecessary at the time of release given the likely parity between consoles and PCs at the time.
 
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#87
Probably PS4, probably not PS3, imo. The architecture will look a lot like the PS4 which looked not at all like the PS3, so PS3 titles will need some retooling as they currently do (often SPU code is ported to GPU compute, PS3 being so frickin weird code doesn't simply run even on much more powerful hardware without moving stuff around)

PS3 titles already ported to the PS4 may work.
so if you don't own a PS3 your entire PS3 digital collection is no longer accessible is what you're saying


and people are totally okay with this?
 
Mar 31, 2014
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#90
so if you don't own a PS3 your entire PS3 digital collection is no longer accessible is what you're saying


and people are totally okay with this?

If said people understand processor architecture and ISA differences and that little coded for the Cell will run straight with no porting, then I assume they begrudgingly are.

Emulation for the PS3 both has high requirements and has few titles running fluidly.
 
Jan 10, 2017
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#91
so if you don't own a PS3 your entire PS3 digital collection is no longer accessible is what you're saying


and people are totally okay with this?

Yeah. I've played those games.

Look at shenmue coming out this year. It's my favourite game of all time. I'll be buying it but I will still play the dc versions over it because it won't feel right to play them on another console.

Even emulation feels off to me on pc. Games should be played on the hardware it was intended to be played on.
 
Oct 24, 2017
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#94
Maybe Ps5 can be designed with hardware modifications to facilitate Ps3 emulation.
I don't expect 7nm to be ready for mass production of a console in 2019, maybe mid 2020, and Ps5 is probably going to stick around for a good 10 years, because getting 3nm ready for mass production is going to take a lot longer (IF we do get a gen after Ps5).
Why have memory prices been rising lately? Has there been more floods in Thailand that affected production like it happened to HDDs a few years ago?
 
Sep 18, 2017
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#95
Maybe Ps5 can be designed with hardware modifications to facilitate Ps3 emulation.
Maaaaybe... although still, emulating a Cell is pretty damned hard. Just checkout the required specs to run RPCS3 - sure, Sony has access to all kinds of non-public information about how a PS3 works, but whether it is enough to make it feasible I'm not sure.

The bigger question is, is there really such a large market for it by then? Sure, there will be some who definitely want the feature. But how many there are really... I've bought a few of those "PS2 classics" on PS4, and TBH they are more of a curiosity than something I'd spend a lot of time with (money wasted, basically).
 
Oct 24, 2017
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#96
Maaaaybe... although still, emulating a Cell is pretty damned hard. Just checkout the required specs to run RPCS3 - sure, Sony has access to all kinds of non-public information about how a PS3 works, but whether it is enough to make it feasible I'm not sure.

The bigger question is, is there really such a large market for it by then? Sure, there will be some who definitely want the feature. But how many there are really... I've bought a few of those "PS2 classics" on PS4, and TBH they are more of a curiosity than something I'd spend a lot of time with (money wasted, basically).
There is no other way to play Tokyo Jungle, Rain, Puppeteer, Demon's Souls or Folklore (and many others). All those that never owned a PS3 have no idea what they are missing :(
I never really cared for Ps1/Ps2 emulation because PC can already do that.
 
Feb 23, 2018
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Him saying he'll be offering more info when the time is right......Is he sitting on stuff (maybe in colab with Sony/MS?)? or has he got nothing yet and is waiting for his sources to come through?

Knowing DF they're probably sitting on something. If you remember, MS collabed with them to unveil the specs of the 1X, so it's not inconceivable to think that they could do the same with Sony, or at least be privy to some inside info.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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I thought it was a solid and well reasoned article. I also think 2020 makes the most business sense due to profit they make in last few years of main life cycle. And glad to see the media dropping hints to Sony that not having BC would be a huge mistake. I hope the media keeps that pressure up because I really believe it would be a huge mistake and it would anger me personally after investing so much in digital.