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Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview

How much is the bandwidth for coherent memory read in PS4?

They've each explained things a little differently.

Microsoft tells us there's 30GB/s of coherent bandwidth accessed by both CPU and GPU. So minus CPU's bandwidth, there would be less than 30GB/s actually available for GPU coherent reads.

Sony tells us the CPU has 20GB/s allotted to it with another 20GB/s Onion/Onion+ for the GPGPU that is CPU cache coherent.

I think there's a subtlety in MS highlighting 'read bandwidth' - I haven't yet heard anything from MS about write coherency for the GPU. Sony offers the ability to make GPU writes visible to CPU without a cache flush, through Onion+. MS's comment is confirmation there isn't an equivalent in XB1?
 
Let's all be nice and agree...

Microsoft engineered a beautiful bit of hardware with the XBox One. It is perfectly balanced to:
- Overlay games/TV with other media & content
- Interpret input from Kinect
- Provide an "App Environment" for your living room
- Provide valuable data to their marketing partners

Sony engineered a beautiful bit of hardware with the PS4. It is perfectly balanced to:
- Play games


You see Sony are shit in reality, they only focussed on one thing. Losers! Phhht - who cares about games FFS!
 
What am I missing about the "balance" argument? I admit that I'm not the most tech savvy person in the world but basically by balance they mean that there's no real bottlenecks but also nothing particularly fast... like it's all stuff in the same class. Which sounds fine. But why would that be better than something that has all that same shit except for one piece of the puzzle that is much faster. Would throwing the "balance" off make it worse somehow?


Basically when i hear balance what I hear is "everything is mediocre so there's no bottlenecks... but there's also nothing exceptional."


Is that wrong? Serious question.... i'm not trolling.

Cost and space mainly. Given a silicon budget, you don't want to have a component in there that has capabilities that won't ever be used.
 
The way I see it is this: MS went for the sure thing to make sure they had 8gb of RAM. PS4 took a gamble on GDDR5 and the gamble paid off. Had the wager gone against them and the system wound up with only 4gb of GDDR5, then they'd have a better processor but be RAM limited, bringing (possible) parity more or less between the two consoles. But their GDDR5 bet paid off, so they wound up with just as big a pool (8gb) but with faster access speeds, and the better processor to boot.

Because of the (obvious) speed advantage of the GDDR5 over DDR3, MS needed SOMETHING to bridge the gap, so they opted for the eSRAM to help with that. I'm not saying they did this in reaction to Sony announcing 8gb of GDDR5, as it was probably already planned into the console design or we wouldn't see it releasing this year, as R&D time to change the core system structure would've prevented that if it were a last-minute addition since its on the same silicon as the APU. I'm just saying that they probably thought (and rightly so) that GDDR5 would at least be theoretical competition (even if a smaller pool had the PS4 wound up with 4gb instead of 8), and knowing it had faster access speeds the R&D department planned in the eSRAM to balance that out.

The unfortunate side-effect that adding on-die eSRAM had was that it reduced real estate for the processor. This resulted in a slower/weaker CPU and GPU in the XB1 vs the PS4. So while they may have brought the memory access speeds theoretically up to being on par with the GDDR5 in the PS4, they did so by sacrificing system compute and render power.

What I still don't get is why they couldn't switch to GDDR5 last minute anyway, but I suppose it probably has something to do with sourcing all that silicon, and it still wouldn't have fixed the problem of having R&D'd a system built around the eSRAM all along, a design choice with zero chance of being altered this late in the game (February 2013).

But rather than just admit this and move forward with "We're focusing on games, on innovative and fine-tuned gaming experiences for everyone. We want to fulfill the promises that motion gaming made to people and expand on that, to bring families together in the ways that a traditional power-centric console that isn't focused on innovation can" they are spinning PR bullshit that anyone with any sense can see right through.

I am NO fan of the Kinect. But that is the mast that they tied their flagship to, and by god if they're going to fall short in the power category then they need to focus on that. But they don't even have any jaw-dropping Kinect 2.0 experiences ready for launch. They're saying "We think our less powerful console is worth $100 more because we have this Kinect thing that we have no truly great software for yet, but yeah we promise it's coming". What they should be saying is "Here is our console for $350, and hey we've got these rad new things coming down the pipe with Kinect 2.0. If you want to get in on that action it will be $100-150", and launch the Kinect 2.0 once they actually HAVE a killer app for it.

Yes, I understand the chicken and egg scenario here. They need devs to support Kinect, so they need the install base, but if they don't even have anything ground breaking coming from FIRST PARTY studios for it, then why in god's name are they shoving it down our throats at a price premium? As much as I hate the Kinect I also realize that in the fight against the PS4's raw power, Kinect 2.0 really is their only trump card, yet MS 1st party studios have exactly zilch in the way of awesome games to showcase on it. The next iteration of Dance Studio and that Xbox One fitness thing are NOT going to sell anyone on the merits of the new Kinect.

I think this is the biggest factor against them when it comes to the whole console power debate. If the XB1 was launching at the same price as PS4 or even $50 less, people would still talk about it, but it wouldn't be as big a deal as paying 25% MORE for a console that is LESS powerful, and the price is all due to them bundling in an accessory that they aren't even bringing out any competitive software for.

I'm rambling now so I'll stop...
 
They seem to be really using the word balance a lot. What is the major issue of having a slightly unbalanced system? If it is that it creates a bottleneck somewhere is that a major issue if all the other parts are just as good as the Xbox One?

I'm not a graphics programmer or anything but this really stood out to me:
Keeping the virtual addresses the same for both CPU and GPU allows the GPU and CPU to share pointers. For example, a shared virtual address space along with coherent memory along with eliminating demand paging means the GPU can directly traverse CPU data structures such as linked lists.

Does that mean a programmer can easily access a pointer created in the code on both the CPU and GPU? If so that sounds really good as sharing data between the CPU and GPU won't be too difficult and tasks can be switched between the 2 (if coded to do so).
 
Let's all be nice and agree...

Microsoft engineered a beautiful bit of hardware with the XBox One. It is perfectly balanced to:
- Overlay games/TV with other media & content
- Interpret input from Kinect
- Provide an "App Environment" for your living room
- Provide valuable data to their marketing partners

Sony engineered a beautiful bit of hardware with the PS4. It is perfectly balanced to:
- Play games


You see Sony are shit in reality, they only focussed on one thing. Losers! Phhht - who cares about games FFS!

:)

Made me smile.

To be fair, Sony's new found love for gaming is a direct consequence of the beating they took last gen.
 
balance2.jpg

103948.gif
 
The way I see it is this: MS went for the sure thing to make sure they had 8gb of RAM. PS4 took a gamble on GDDR5 and the gamble paid off. Had the wager gone against them and the system wound up with only 4gb of GDDR5, then they'd have a better processor but be RAM limited, bringing (possible) parity more or less between the two consoles. But their GDDR5 bet paid off, so they wound up with just as big a pool (8gb) but with faster access speeds, and the better processor to boot.

Because of the (obvious) speed advantage of the GDDR5 over DDR3, MS needed SOMETHING to bridge the gap, so they opted for the eSRAM to help with that. I'm not saying they did this in reaction to Sony announcing 8gb of GDDR5, as it was probably already planned into the console design or we wouldn't see it releasing this year, as R&D time to change the core system structure would've prevented that if it were a last-minute addition since its on the same silicon as the APU. I'm just saying that they probably thought (and rightly so) that GDDR5 would at least be theoretical competition (even if a smaller pool had the PS4 wound up with 4gb instead of 8), and knowing it had faster access speeds the R&D department planned in the eSRAM to balance that out.

The unfortunate side-effect that adding on-die eSRAM had was that it reduced real estate for the processor. This resulted in a slower/weaker CPU and GPU in the XB1 vs the PS4. So while they may have brought the memory access speeds theoretically up to being on par with the GDDR5 in the PS4, they did so by sacrificing system compute and render power.

What I still don't get is why they couldn't switch to GDDR5 last minute anyway, but I suppose it probably has something to do with sourcing all that silicon, and it still wouldn't have fixed the problem of having R&D'd a system built around the eSRAM all along, a design choice with zero chance of being altered this late in the game (February 2013).

But rather than just admit this and move forward with "We're focusing on games, on innovative and fine-tuned gaming experiences for everyone. We want to fulfill the promises that motion gaming made to people and expand on that, to bring families together in the ways that a traditional power-centric console that isn't focused on innovation can" they are spinning PR bullshit that anyone with any sense can see right through.

I am NO fan of the Kinect. But that is the mast that they tied their flagship to, and by god if they're going to fall short in the power category then they need to focus on that. But they don't even have any jaw-dropping Kinect 2.0 experiences ready for launch. They're saying "We think our less powerful console is worth $100 more because we have this Kinect thing that we have no truly great software for yet, but yeah we promise it's coming". What they should be saying is "Here is our console for $350, and hey we've got these rad new things coming down the pipe with Kinect 2.0. If you want to get in on that action it will be $100-150", and launch the Kinect 2.0 once they actually HAVE a killer app for it.

Yes, I understand the chicken and egg scenario here. They need devs to support Kinect, so they need the install base, but if they don't even have anything ground breaking coming from FIRST PARTY studios for it, then why in god's name are they shoving it down our throats at a price premium? As much as I hate the Kinect I also realize that in the fight against the PS4's raw power, Kinect 2.0 really is their only trump card, yet MS 1st party studios have exactly zilch in the way of awesome games to showcase on it. The next iteration of Dance Studio and that Xbox One fitness thing are NOT going to sell anyone on the merits of the new Kinect.

I think this is the biggest factor against them when it comes to the whole console power debate. If the XB1 was launching at the same price as PS4 or even $50 less, people would still talk about it, but it wouldn't be as big a deal as paying 25% MORE for a console that is LESS powerful, and the price is all due to them bundling in an accessory that they aren't even bringing out any competitive software for.

I'm rambling now so I'll stop...

the XO architecture has been the same since the beginning they just can't change things on the fly, the DDR3 + eSRAM combination is not recent nor the amount of ram.
 
So dumb.

Just say "Their console is more powerful, but that doesn't matter, because it never does. We'll have better games".

Well, that's probably not true either, but it's simpler, and at least you're not throwing "balance" at the wall to see if it sticks.
 
:)

Made me smile.

To be fair, Sony's new found love for gaming is a direct consequence of the beating they took last gen.

I agree with you! Sony were battered from last gen and came out guns blazing - laser focussed on gaming.

But I am afraid the "market" won't accept what Microsoft are doing and force them to flush XBox down the drain in the same way as the Zune or Kin; force them to focus on their "core products" again. Sony HAD to go "all in" as it was a main pillar of their business. I am not confident that MS has the same staying power when the going gets tough.

I really hope they don't bail as we have seen an arrogant Sony full of hubris once before... and we don't want to see it again!
 
The way I see it is this: MS went for the sure thing to make sure they had 8gb of RAM. PS4 took a gamble on GDDR5 and the gamble paid off. Had the wager gone against them and the system wound up with only 4gb of GDDR5, then they'd have a better processor but be RAM limited, bringing (possible) parity more or less between the two consoles. But their GDDR5 bet paid off, so they wound up with just as big a pool (8gb) but with faster access speeds, and the better processor to boot.

Because of the (obvious) speed advantage of the GDDR5 over DDR3, MS needed SOMETHING to bridge the gap, so they opted for the eSRAM to help with that. I'm not saying they did this in reaction to Sony announcing 8gb of GDDR5, as it was probably already planned into the console design or we wouldn't see it releasing this year, as R&D time to change the core system structure would've prevented that if it were a last-minute addition since its on the same silicon as the APU. I'm just saying that they probably thought (and rightly so) that GDDR5 would at least be theoretical competition (even if a smaller pool had the PS4 wound up with 4gb instead of 8), and knowing it had faster access speeds the R&D department planned in the eSRAM to balance that out.

This part is kind of cyclical though. Could they only put 12 CUs on because the space was taken up by ESRAM? But if there wasn't ESRAM and instead they put on 18CUs, those CUs wouldn't have been able to be fed by the DDR3, so they'd be wasted. So the ESRAM is needed in order to keep the CUs (and ROPs etc) fed well enough.
 
Let's all be nice and agree...

Microsoft engineered a beautiful bit of hardware with the XBox One. It is perfectly balanced to:
- Overlay games/TV with other media & content
- Interpret input from Kinect
- Provide an "App Environment" for your living room
- Provide valuable data to their marketing partners

Sony engineered a beautiful bit of hardware with the PS4. It is perfectly balanced to:
- Play games


You see Sony are shit in reality, they only focussed on one thing. Losers! Phhht - who cares about games FFS!

I know it's a sarcastic post, but the ironic thing is that - IMO - PS3 was a better all-round media machine than 360, so there is no certainty that Xbox one will be better at media than PS4. If PS4 supports Nasne in Japan, and maybe they bring something similar out in the west, combined with their IPTV dealings and the existing usual apps like netflix - could be a way more compelling offer than having a rich guide for live TV.
 
Don't forget that PS4 can do GPU cache bypasses and Xbox One has to flush the GPU cache. Microsoft always ignores this point when talking about PS4's bus system. ^_^

Yeah, my last paragraph touches on that. Don't think it's by chance that they qualify XB1's GPU coherent bandwidth as read bandwidth.
 
I agree with you! Sony were battered from last gen and came out guns blazing - laser focussed on gaming.

But I am afraid the "market" won't accept what Microsoft are doing and force them to flush XBox down the drain in the same way as the Zune or Kin; force them to focus on their "core products" again. Sony HAD to go "all in" as it was a main pillar of their business. I am not confident that MS has the same staying power when the going gets tough.

I really hope they don't bail as we have seen an arrogant Sony full of hubris once before... and we don't want to see it again!

If the worst happened and Microsoft bailed, there's always Valve... People underestimate their ability to offer some serious hard-core gaming competition.
 
Microsoft's XB1 architects could do a million interviews on this topic, and talk up transistors, balance, ESRAM, or any other detail of their console. At the end of the day we all know 1.8tf easily trumps 1.3tf, and when you throw in the better memory bandwidth, and extra ROPS, all this babbling just comes off as a waste of everyone's time.
 
I read lifeexpectancy's post as Lorelai.

I don't really believe the 'gamble' people constantly talk about. Isn't the cost of technology a fairly measurable and predictable thing? Why would MS have been blind-sighted by the GDDR5 being an acceptable cost for 8GB? Also, why would Sony have lied about it? They've claimed they wanted 4, but were pushed to 8 by developer pressures. That doesn't seem like the PR spin you'd put on that decision if it wasn't true.
 
I read lifeexpectancy's post as Lorelai.

I don't really believe the 'gamble' people constantly talk about. Isn't the cost of technology a fairly measurable and predictable thing? Why would MS have been blind-sighted by the GDDR5 being an acceptable cost for 8GB? Also, why would Sony have lied about it? They've claimed they wanted 4, but were pushed to 8 by developer pressures. That doesn't seem like the PR spin you'd put on that decision if it wasn't true.

It wasn't cost they were gambling on but more the availability of chips at the required densities.
 
I really wish they would talk about the possibility of 3rd party applications getting created for the Bone. If they were going to allow it, at this point, there will be none available at launch other than the ones they have privately discussed with the company directly. A Plex app on the Bone would be really great. Much better than any of the clients that run on TVs, Roku, etc because the processing power and memory in those things are shit and cannot handle a nice UI.
 
I read lifeexpectancy's post as Lorelai.

I don't really believe the 'gamble' people constantly talk about. Isn't the cost of technology a fairly measurable and predictable thing? Why would MS have been blind-sighted by the GDDR5 being an acceptable cost for 8GB? Also, why would Sony have lied about it? They've claimed they wanted 4, but were pushed to 8 by developer pressures. That doesn't seem like the PR spin you'd put on that decision if it wasn't true.

Yeah. I've never accepted the story that Microsoft were caught off guard by that. It was clear to everyone GDDR5 was the future of GPUs. They had to know costs were going to come down over time. At the end of the day I suspect they wanted to keep costs so in check, that they simply chose the cheaper option for maximum profits, and felt that would be good enough.

It completely fits in line with their arrogance in every other area. We can build a weaker console, force Kinect on everyone, force always online DRM, charge as much as we want, and this thing is still going to win in the marketplace because people love the Xbox name so much. In the end I think it was just miscalculations all around.
 
I read lifeexpectancy's post as Lorelai.

I don't really believe the 'gamble' people constantly talk about. Isn't the cost of technology a fairly measurable and predictable thing? Why would MS have been blind-sighted by the GDDR5 being an acceptable cost for 8GB? Also, why would Sony have lied about it? They've claimed they wanted 4, but were pushed to 8 by developer pressures. That doesn't seem like the PR spin you'd put on that decision if it wasn't true.

As I understood it, the thing wasn't that they wanted 4, but that they didn't think GDDR5 would be available in sufficient densities (or something like that) to be able to get 8gb into the console. When that turned out not to be the case, they popped for the 8gb once it became feasible. As for MS, maybe they were betting against GDDR5 densities coming into the right amounts (or whatever), or maybe it was purely a greed play for the cheaper DDR3. I haven no clue and probably only a select few higher ups at each company know the real truth.

Maybe I'm wrong. All the arguing back and forth about the technical aspects has left me confused and a little disoriented, like someone slipped me a rufee (sp?) in my drink last night or something.

Thank you for being the first gaffer to acknowledge Lorelai btw. She is the most beautiful creature on god's green earth, bar none. Absolutely stunning to me in every conceivable way.
 
wow ... I studied computer engineering at the bachelor and I am having trouble following this article as it is too technical (for me) in the hardware architecture field (plus it was few years ago :( ).

They are clearly trying to convince people (as this is clearly an article engineered by the microsoft communication department) by bringing out the "eggheads".
To the vast majority of people, these engineers will sound credible and truthful simply because they clearly know much more on this topic than the average people.

Unless we have at hand people with a comparable preparation and experience (luckly here on neogaf we should have a couple) it will be tough to establish whether these are truthful statements or not.

That said, I like this approach.... explaining the architecture, the design choices. I respect this kind of marketing/communication / defence of your product. At least as long it does not become a ridiculous mirror climbing (such as power of the cloud or other stuff meant to seem technical .... but they are just bullshit)


addendum : to be fair they have a really uphill battle ... I mean .... as other said just look at the equivalent GPUs in the PC world and you already have an idea of the difference of power of the two machines. On top of this, add the fast memory of the Ps4 ...... how can you expect to be on the same level ? The real question is what will be the real life difference .....
 
Shit, I knew developers were members on this forum, but I had no idea the majority of people who post in these threads are!

That's so cool!
 
Sigh...why so many idiots like this.
Probably because we have lost the count of the xbone article about him? I mean what exactly has of interesting xbone to write so many article? Why Leadbetter is less interested about Huma or gddr5 main of ps4 like the balanced xbone ? The only article I remember about him of ps4 is the less ram available or the CU cut. Time to be a little bit less microsoft fanboy to him? Ithink he's quite older for these things.
 
Thank you for being the first gaffer to acknowledge Lorelai btw. She is the most beautiful creature on god's green earth, bar none. Absolutely stunning to me in every conceivable way.
She's very fetching.

It's kind of amazing people can recognize a face with 20x20 pixels actually.
 
wow ... I studied computer engineering at the bachelor and I am having trouble following this article as it is too technical (for me) in the hardware architecture field (plus it was few years ago :( ).

They are clearly trying to convince people (as this is clearly an article engineered by the microsoft communication department) by bring out the "eggheads".
To the vast majority of people, these engineers will sound credible and truthful simply because they clearly know much more on this topic than the average people.

Unless we have at hand people with a comparable preparation and experience (luckly here on neogaf we should have a couple) it will be tough to establish whether these are truthful statements or not.

That said, I like this approach.... explaining the architecture, the design choices. I respect this kind of marketing/communication / defence of your product. At least as long it does not become a ridiculous mirror climbing (such as power of the cloud or other stuff meant to seem technical .... but they are just bullshit)
I agree that it is perfectly fine to defend your product like that. It would be absurd if they would just plainly admit that the Xbone is weaker. BUT, what Digital Foundry and that clown of a writer Richard Leadbetter is doing is truly atrocious. If you're going to act as a third party PR firm, then you should have that written clearly on your webpage. Rename it Xbox Foundry or something. I really, really hope the fallout of this is the demise of the entire publication. Terrible style.
 
Each way according to the vgleaks slide, and Cerny. 10GB/s read, 10GB/s write.

Mark Cerny: "We added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory… As a result, if the data that’s being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don’t have issues with synchronization between them anymore… We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That’s not very small in today’s terms — it’s larger than the PCIe on most PCs!"

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191007/inside_the_playstation_4_with_mark_.php?page=1


Oops.
Yeah, "each way".
Sry, my bad.
 
Probably because we have lost the count of the xbone article about him? I mean what exactly has of interesting xbone to write so many article? Why Leadbetter is less interested about Huma or gddr5 main of ps4 like the balanced xbone ? The only article I remember about him of ps4 is the less ram available or the CU cut. Time to be a little bit less microsoft fanboy to him? Ithink he's quite older for these things.

Because MS gave him the interview and was quite forthcoming with information. He mentions his interview with Cerny and how he would not divulge information that he had not already given out. Not much you can do with that. Other than that, he could have not made 3 articles out of the one interview, but journos gotta eat I guess.
 
Microsoft: talking up the little things.

Seriously, they are overemphasizing the importance of all their little tweaks and things. They simply aren't as close to the PS4 in terms of power as they wish we would believe. I don't think anyone is buying it at this point - at least among the smart crowd.

On the Sony side, they need to get out in front of this and talk about their machine more. No sense in letting Microsoft get away with this nonsense with everyone outside of the message board crowd.
 
This is from the last big thread.

X1 GPU:
1.18 TF GPU (12 CUs) for games
768 Shaders
48 Texture units
16 ROPS
2 ACE/ 16 queues

PS4 GPU:
1.84TF GPU ( 18 CUs) for games + 56%
1152 Shaders +50%
72 Texture units +50%
32 ROPS + 100%
8 ACE/64 queues +400%

Yep, thank you ;)
 
Apparently it does, but data is slow from ESRAM to CPU and vice versa so it hardly does anything.

You wouldn't use ESRAM for GPGPU stuff regardless.

CadetMahoney said:
Pretty much, what's the point of all this PR technical talk when multiplatform games are gonna get trounced by PS4 superior versions? It's just a waste of time taking about it tbh and will just make them look even more silly.

There are certainly people out there interested in the technical details of devices and this interview is quite forthcoming with details.
 
Microsoft's XB1 architects could do a million interviews on this topic, and talk up transistors, balance, ESRAM, or any other detail of their console. At the end of the day . . .

Pretty much, what's the point of all this PR technical talk when multiplatform games are gonna get trounced by PS4 superior versions? It's just a waste of time taking about it tbh and will just make them look even more silly as they keep losing face-off after face-off.

There are certainly people out there interested in the technical details of devices and this interview is quite forthcoming with details.

Some ppl will be interested for sure, I think the common themes in this thread judging from all the joke pictures is it's an argument that it's equal to PS4.
 
Have they addressed how no one wants Kinect. How all their top AAA games are not using it aside from the odd voice command that could easily be done with a microphone?

Have they addressed the whole reason Sony has crushed them this far is because of Kinect and resulting price, power etc

Have they addressed that by heavily targeting Kinect which was all but ignored by their core user base, they are in fact alienating their core user base?

To be honest Microsoft would be in a much better shape with a console the same power but $100 cheaper than the PS4. Or a console just as powerful for the same price. Or a console more powerful but more expensive. But heavily reliant on Kinect ... less power ... and higher price? It's like all the wrong combinations.
 
Sigh...why so many idiots like this.

Well, without going into any theoretical biases, it's easy to see why people would think so. If you copypaste the titles of Next Gen articles from Digital Foundry since August, you'll see this.

Xbox One:

Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview - The whole story.
Microsoft to unlock more GPU power for Xbox One developers - Kinect and app reservations will be accessible to game-makers.
Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects - "There's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of people who don't get it. We're actually extremely proud of our design."
Xbox One exclusive Ryse runs at 900p - Full HD off the table for Crytek's showcase. Digital Foundry assesses the news
Xbox One CPU speed increased by 9.375 per cent - 1.6GHz processor bumped up to 1.75GHz in production hardware.
Beyond live TV - what the Xbox One user interface means for gamers - Digital Foundry on the next-gen dash, voice control... and Kinect.
Digital Foundry vs. Respawn: the Titanfall interview - Xbox One, the cloud, the Source Engine - and the 1080p60 question
Xbox One graphics speed increased by 6.62 per cent - GPU receives post-E3 53MHz speed boost.

PS4:

Digital Foundry vs. Resogun - Head-to-head with Housemarque, plus exclusive PlayStation 4 60fps gameplay video.
Mark Cerny: lead architect of... PlayStation Vita? - PS4 design chief also responsible for Sony's handheld.



It's probably safe to say DF is more interested in Xbox One, or Microsoft really wants to talk to them all the time. Or Sony PR could just be slacking off since they're in the publicity lead.
 
- They can add write/read in ram getting 150GB/s real peak data. Thing is as we well know before it is either 109GB/s read or 109GB/s write. No 150GB/s read or write. 209GB/s is theoretical max where you write and read and the same time.

That is only the esram bandwidth, you still have the ddr3 which is why they give 200 as the real world number in the interview
 
Have they addressed how no one wants Kinect. How all their top AAA games are not using it aside from the odd voice command that could easily be done with a microphone?

Have they addressed the whole reason Sony has crushed them this far is because of Kinect and resulting price, power etc

Have they addressed that by heavily targeting Kinect which was all but ignored by their core user base, they are in fact alienating their core user base?

To be honest Microsoft would be in a much better shape with a console the same power but $100 cheaper than the PS4. Or a console just as powerful for the same price. Or a console more powerful but more expensive. But heavily reliant on Kinect ... less power ... and higher price? It's like all the wrong combinations.

Wait a second... Are ALL things wrong? Not just some wrong, and some right?
OH shi-
bal3.jpg
 
Andrew Goossen said:
The relationship between fill-rate and memory bandwidth is a good example of where balance is necessary. A high fill-rate won't help if the memory system can't sustain the bandwidth required to run at that fill rate. For example, consider a typical game scenario where the render target is 32bpp [bits per pixel] and blending is disabled, and the depth/stencil surface is 32bpp with Z enabled. That amount to 12 bytes of bandwidth needed per pixel drawn (eight bytes write, four bytes read). At our peak fill-rate of 13.65GPixels/s that adds up to 164GB/s of real bandwidth that is needed which pretty much saturates our ESRAM bandwidth. In this case, even if we had doubled the number of ROPs, the effective fill-rate would not have changed because we would be bottlenecked on bandwidth.
black-guy-laughing-oni4rrd.gif


Technical fellows around the world are embarrassed.
 
which adds up to 30GB/s. Shocking how its the same number.

They're different numbers...

XB1: 30GB/s shared between CPU coherent read/write and GPU coherent read.

PS4: 20GB/s for CPU coherent read/write + 10GB/s GPU coherent read + 10GB/s GPU coherent write
 
What I find funny is that we are automatically supposed to accept Microsoft's phony premise that they have balanced their system in unheralded, unseen before ways while Sony has not bothered to do so. Every design has optimizations, that by itself isn't new. Sure, Microsoft has done some nice things to help them get closer to their max theoretical performance numbers but they will always have much less bandwidth and GPU horsepower that will hold them back no matter how much they tweak under the hood.

Sony's major error to do date has been not responding by giving a detailed account. They falsely assume that previous interviews on this front will suffice. Gamers have short memories and people who do not frequent message boards have no reason to not accept tech statements at face value. If they have committed any gaffe's as of late, it is by not going full nuclear on the "balance front" the last month. While Microsoft has been an embarrassment to us, you can count on the larger market picking up on some of this spin.
 
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