Care enough to post in this thread though. And a guess is only required if you cant access an answer to your question. In this case the answer is in the link in the OP.
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Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
simplythebest
Banned
What is Yin without Yang? What is Xbox One without PS4? There must be balance in all things, or else the self will not hold. But eventually the little guy with one day say
That is a huge difference for sure goddamn.
No it doesn't. Balanced doesn't necessarily mean powerful. Benny_A summarised it well
Prisoner KSC2-303
Member
Interesting, i'm never filled with confidence when someone involved with designing a new piece of shiny tech uses phrases like "quite sufficient". Reminds me of the arguments for resistive screens.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Sony first party has been releasing some stellar looking games this generation, but multi platform games were still generally not on par with the 360 versions. Everyone expects first party titles to look good but don't hold multiplatform games to the same standard.
Also, maybe Sony didn't demand any parity but MS is not the type of company that will just lay down and let a competitor beat them. They love throwing their muscle around. They always have.
Brad Grenz
Member
I liked them trying to imply that having more compute queues would degrade performance. I also like them declining to say anything about the ESRAM latency benefits, which suggests to me they are minimal. They have gone out of their way to play up any perceived advantage, and yet in the one area so many Jizz Wizards have pinned their hopes and dreams on they won't say anything...
This is ridiculous. Are you saying MS will moneyhats parity, in the beginning of my gaming career I have never seen this happen from Amiga to NES or playing superior SF2 on SNES over Genesis version.
dungtongue
Neo Member
What muscle do they have though? PS4 will probably sell more this generation due to the price advantage. Why would developers bend over for MS to make their product worse?
PdotMichael
Banned
You have a weird definition of the term if power and efficiency aren't part of the term.
Chobel
Member
Add to that they're saying they have higher bandwidth for GPGPU...smh
Impeccable
Member
fatgamecat
Member
This is really making me curious to know the final PS4 clocks. CPU hasn't been officially announced, and GPU they could feasibly bump up to 850.
GameAddict411
Member
you don't have to be some kind of genius to know that RL is a MS shill, laws of physics implies that 1.84 TFLOPS>1.18 TFLOPS and no matter how much MS PR tries to hide this fact(with RL help) the gap will always be there and it will show sooner or later(ignoring the fact that the PS4 memory architecture is much better).
Most multiplatform games are worse on PS3, yes, because it was more difficult to work with, and it wasn't until people started leading on PS3, or putting much more effort in on there, that we saw parity, and more advantages on the PS3 versions. It wasn't for the sake of parity, it was because MS had a year head start, better dev tools, and a simpler box. None of that is true now.
MS didn't pay SE to fuck up the PS3 version of FFXIII, I seriously doubt they're going to pay any developers to hold back on PS4. They know the performance difference is really not important in terms of the mainstream audience. The Xbox was hugely more powerful than the PS2, Sony didn't force developers to make those SKUs equal, because they knew it was irrelevant.
This performance difference matters to a very small number of people realistically. People who really care about performance have PCs.
Not gonna lie, The resident evil remake looked unbelievable on the gamecube that i actually assumed for a long time that it was in a different league than xbox and ps2.
The PS4 looks more betterer
The GPU I don;t think they'll bother with. But the CPU I can see being bumped up, in part because its one of the only clocks we still haven't had an official number on.
Looks and is.
The balance argument they are making is pointless at this stage. Why?
Well let's say the perfectly balanced Xbone had different component, each having a "relative power factor" of 1, then the system could be illustrated like this:
1 : 1 : 1 : 1
That should churn out a completely balanced 1 in final power.
I could get the argument if the PS4 was something like this:
2 : 0.8 : 0.9 : 3
And then you could argue the final power is 0.8 (cause of lack of balance and bottlenecks blah blah.
But in fact the PS4 rather have something like:
1.2 : 1.3 : 1.2 : 1.5
Meaning that even the weakest link of the PS4 is stronger than the comparable part in the Xbone.
You have a weaker console MS, that's just how it is.
Well let's say the perfectly balanced Xbone had different component, each having a "relative power factor" of 1, then the system could be illustrated like this:
1 : 1 : 1 : 1
That should churn out a completely balanced 1 in final power.
I could get the argument if the PS4 was something like this:
2 : 0.8 : 0.9 : 3
And then you could argue the final power is 0.8 (cause of lack of balance and bottlenecks blah blah.
But in fact the PS4 rather have something like:
1.2 : 1.3 : 1.2 : 1.5
Meaning that even the weakest link of the PS4 is stronger than the comparable part in the Xbone.
You have a weaker console MS, that's just how it is.
Yep I think people are in for a huge surprise, I reckon the difference in multiplatform games will be much bigger than this gen. And the difference will be more apparent as time passes.
But has it been balanced? You can just have everything be 50-100% faster across the board and expect it to be faster.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
Prove it or STFU.
This post makes me feel less stupid. Can someone back him up so I don't just go about my life assuming stuff?
I was reading and all the words were going by but then the whole balance thing came up and I started feeling my eyes glaze over. I then went back and read it. I feel like a ton of this is because Sony got really lucky with the 8GB GDDR5 RAM thing. What would the situation be like if they could only have 4GB, I wonder.
Rhetorical question. Please do not answer if it's going to start crap.
PS4 was designed with Newegg.com
You have anger issues.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
..only with idiots.
PdotMichael
Banned
Canis lupus
Member
Dictator93
Member
MAybe it is because we can do math and know what the general delimiting factor in modern gaming is (the GPU).
I find this to be kinda BS... but whatever.
GameAddict411
Member
this is completely dependent on the developer and how they take advantage of the hardware, the original xbox was so much more advanced than the PS2 and the GC not only in-term of raw power and memory but in hardware features like programmable shaders, hell some games were in HD at the time.
FeiRR
Banned
I'll just leave it here http://www.digitalfoundry.org/showcase2/high_definition.html
It's stupid to "back myself up", but all the numbers for all different components I have seen have been in the favor of PS4. Sometimes with a great difference. Except for the RAM, which is kind of the same; but note that in no way does more RAM yield more power. RAM gives you more room for more stuff, but nothing will run faster because of more RAM. Faster RAM, though, can definitely make a great difference.
I guess what the article comes down to is the Xbone engineers/PRpeople can't:
1. Admit their console is weaker
2. Lie and say their console is stronger, or even as strong.
So they have found one point to talk about, and that is the fact that it is more balanced.
Like this:
Your friend has ten bags of gold,
some with 400 pounds of gold,
some with 100 pounds of gold.
You have ten bags of gold aswell, and you want people to think you are richer, or at least as rich as him.
All your bags contain exactly 80 pounds of gold.
Ahhh... there we go, you have him beat on one thing!
So you go to you friends and say
"Hah well you see, he has all these crazy bags of UNBALANCED amounts of gold. I have exactly balanced amounts of gold in each bag, nifty right?? We'll see how it pans out, NO ONE KNOWS YET."
GameAddict411
Member
prove what exactly? that 1.84 TFLOPS> 1.18 TFLOPS? have you have ever heard of "math" and how it works? the PS4 is objectively more powerful, i don't need shills like RL to tell my otherwise.
Chaostar
Member
I really want to believe this, so I will.
PartyTimeFunTime
Banned
Ah Gaf, where everyone is a programmer and computer engineer...
hydrophilic attack
Member
Fair and BALANCED
Except, I AM a programmer, and a computer engineer. You know what I program? Intensive real-time 3D applications using 3D engines. Sometimes for consoles.
Mistwalker
Member
Honestly the way he presents Microsoft's strengths, and misrepresents the PS4's (to the point of implying they are in fact weaknesses) has been consistent since the console reveals some months ago.
But the most obvious is when he tried to downplay the difference in "compute" performance with wildly irrespective PC GPUs in a tapestry of misrepresentation, goalpost dancing, and either utter incompetence or an unshakable agenda.
It really was that bad. Anyone with even passing technical knowledge saw it for what it was, there was a very long thread here on NeoGAF dismantling everything about it, from its premise to its methodology and conclusions.
People have made a habit of jumping for the throat and attacking anything vaguely MS-related (sometimes with justification, sometimes not), but Leadbetter deserves all of it. People have said he is single-handedly dragging down Digital Foundry's reputation, and I have to agree.
dragonelite
Member
Dictator93
Member
Gaf has a number of posters who are very talented programmers and engineers. Thanks for your driveby posting friend.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I think you underestimate the kind of people who are members on Neogaf.
Chaostar
Member
Yoga lessons.
Alx
Member
That's the most honest thing you can hear from an engineer, though. Unlike what PR will always claim, the goal is never to produce "the best thing ever", but to have something that is "good enough" to meet the expectations (and the price/complexitiy/efficiency constraints).
"Quite sufficient" is always the target, more is too much, less is not enough.
While some of the article is certainly about how it compares to PS4, mostly it's just about the design itself. You can admire the thought process and technology of a device even if there is a superior product offered by the competition.
Is Leadbetter a shill? I don't know, but I also don't know if it matters. It's not like he lies in his comparisons, he's sometimes wrong, but he tends to correct those things when they happen. When PS3 games are better, it's typically about how the developers are incompetent, which I think is obnoxious, but ultimately, who cares? If the PS4 versions of games are better, it's not like he's not going to report it.
Is Leadbetter a shill? I don't know, but I also don't know if it matters. It's not like he lies in his comparisons, he's sometimes wrong, but he tends to correct those things when they happen. When PS3 games are better, it's typically about how the developers are incompetent, which I think is obnoxious, but ultimately, who cares? If the PS4 versions of games are better, it's not like he's not going to report it.