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Digital Foundry: the complete Xbox One architects interview
- Thread starter Chobel
- Start date
SwiftDeath
Member
Honey trap anyone?
Crimson_Gold
Member
Tired arguments and nonsense have murdered a great many in this thread. You can find some good discourse in here. Sifting through the foolishness can be quite entertaining. I've learned a lot from people like Skeff, Go Freak, and others.
Muppet of a Man
Member
At this point, I don't really understand why the specs situation is even an argument anymore. People should just try to argue the merits of X1's other considerably stronger points (UI/UX, multitasking, exclusive content, controller preference, online community/ecosystem, etc.). I guess they're all just not as objective a measure as hardware specifications are for the e-dick-measuring contest.
Outside of that, the actual implementation of the X1 system architecture is interesting in itself, as well as the rationale behind the technical decisions; the objective comparison from an absolute power perspective with the PS4 is not.
Outside of that, the actual implementation of the X1 system architecture is interesting in itself, as well as the rationale behind the technical decisions; the objective comparison from an absolute power perspective with the PS4 is not.
Best thread ever, never a dull moment.
As a continued Junior, I keep patting myself on the back for not getting involved in these sort of shenanigans! As an audio guy in the industry for nearly 20 years, you get to make friends along the way. I have info, it's nothing we don't already know, more ...confirmation of things, but I value my Junior status!
SwiftDeath
Member
Have you ever been a member?
Because if not surviving 3 years a junior member is impressive
I think the conversation is ready to go to those details, but Microsoft keep sending it back to specs themselves. I think if Kinect sports rivals was a launch title then we would be hearing more about Kinect from Microsoft, but for some reason Microsoft are really fighting the power difference.
I think Ideally, Microsoft should come out and show how their multiplats could be better, even if they were graphically worse, Talk about Dedicated servers and offer definitive information on them, rather than 40x the power, unlimited power of the cloud make graphics better, talk less about Azure and more about thunderhead.
Perhaps they should clue us in on Rio? Talk about xbox one controller compatability with Tablets, is it just windows tablets? Ipad and android maybe? if it is will we get a remote play scenario on tablet and controller combo, that's possible so why not show it?
They were hammered for not being focused on games at the reveal, because that's who was watching the reveal, it was gamers. Now however we are close to release, let's see the UI, show us why 10% of the GPU is a respectable allocation for all of the great things it can do.
Microsoft really need to channel this discussion towards their strong points, not head on into Sony's strong point of hardware superiority and I don't mean by using Astro turfers as that generally puts the hardcore gamers off even more when they're discovered.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Yeah it's absolutely ridiculous how they try to turn every negative into a positive. It's about time MS stop caring about people's opinions and preorder numbers and just have some confidence in their product. Tell people what it really is, release the damn thing, and have faith that your product is good enough to be successful
phosphor112
Banned
2Dshmup fan wasn't doing anything wrong.. but once that link came through, oh man. I knew it was done for.
The other guy though. He was just trolling basically saying his fact was right.
Muppet of a Man
Member
Hey, but FUD must work to some extent for them. Otherwise, why would they continue to take part in it?
Putting more RAM in there would do nothing for the issues they have.
phosphor112
Banned
The cost would have been much higher. They'd have to significantly increase the board complexity to the point of being worthless. The cost it would take to up the ram to 12 would have been probably higher than upping the CPU/GPU itself.
Would that not have been a notch against the PS4, but alas I am not a technical wizard. Given that, wouldn't 12GB actually help a bit, or be just a barrier to"the balance"?
I see. My knowledge is limited on this subject, so as far as I'm concerned, it's just another stick of RAM, lol. Thanks for the clarification.
The problem is, as many posters have demonstrated, some people will buy their bullshit claims and misinformation and then defend it to the death. But for those of us who actually have a brain to think with, they're doing more harm than good. A lot of what they say just insults people's intelligence. They assume everyone who reads their shit about "balance" and "GDDR5 makes us unconcortable" is a moron willing to eat it all up. MS doesn't seem to realize that you don't need to be a hardware engineer to have common sense and enough basic computer knowledge to understand how these systems work. I don't understand how so many people can put up with it and still support a company that has proven itself to be so anti-consumer.
hydragonwarrior
Member
We... need... more... CU's!!
And hUMA.
And hUMA.
It would have cost very little, if they had designed from the start and didn't have to redesign the motherboard, However it would not have increased the Bandwidth, so they would still have needed ESRAM aswell.
It's the speed of data transfer rather than the size of the data available which is the need for ESRAM in the xb1.
I Don't know if there was a superior ram set up they could have used with DDR3 though, but simply increasing it wouldn't have been effective.
It certainly works, though in this case I think it's more of a re-assuring thing for people who want an xbox one and don't want to feel like they're paying more for less, on NeoGAF though, it's generally called out for what it is.
phosphor112
Banned
More ram is useless if A) You don't have the power for it, and B) it's too slow to access. The only notch it would have been is a notch in MS's checkbook.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
They need more bandwidth to feed the 8GB they already have, adding another 4GB isn't going to give them that, and the ESRAM is on the chip so they can't expand there either.
They need to be talking about the games, the network, Kinect 2 (yeah, most hate it but it's a differentiator and they need to show some confidence and commitment to their choices) and even get back to the TVTVTV thing, rather than act like they made a terrible mistake. XB1 will be a capable machine and it will sell well when MS get their feet in the right place. Plus, 'shoddy' versions of multiplatform games didn't really do PS3 any harm in the long term, and I don't think it's going to make a great difference this time around.
mangochutney
Member
FUD works because if you overload with your FUD the storyline becomes hard to follow.
You'd need to visit this forum and all the gaming news websites every hour to make sure you know all the latest info.
The vast majority of people won't do that and so the casuals will get hand-me-down news every now and then, and so they might read some FUD that may later be proved incorrect, but they'll miss that later story and then tell their buddies the FUD news and they'll believe it because they don't have the knowledge to know otherwise.
I'm sure we've all been there as kids when we've spread something that was nonsense because little Jonny told you who had no barometer for bullshittery.
Interesting to see that MS think 16 contexts (8 tasks/contexts per ACE) gives them what they feel balances with the rest of their 'system', and Sony have gone for 64, presumably to allow some flexibility to developers..
I can kind of see what MS are aiming for then, having a fixed model as to where they think certain processing should be done, i.e. bit of SHAPE for audio, small amount of physics on the GPGPU, etc, etc.. which is probably why they feel their system is balanced, but clearly that is quite rigid and any developer want to stray outside of that 'model' is going to have to sacrifice more.
Sony seem to have gone for flexibility then? i.e. you could burn up some GPGPU for audio, or indepth phsyics, or use it for rendering, that's up to the developer, ultimately you should get good efficiencies, and the overall compute is going to be much higher then the XB1..
I kind of hope MS have really thought this through, I would hate to go through the next gen just with PS4, although the steam box looks interesting..
No, signed up years ago...eventually i got green lit, and just went from there, chiming in on things from time to time. I find GAF to be absolutely awesome tbh, some right characters!
The frequency of these sorts of misinformation campaigns being peddled is getting alarming.
Neuromancer
Member
Go on...
like i say, i value my time on GAF.
Thanks guys - I appreciate the explanations! I am learning a lot...
If you can prove the source of your info is credible to mods, there's no harm in posting it.
digoutyoursoul
Member
What makes you think you will be banned? If you can provide some sort of evidence via PM to a mod you will be fine
SwiftDeath
Member
RedNumberFive
Banned
You can not make a statement like that then bail on us. Give up the goods!
graywolf323
Member
I wonder just how many people have been banned for it
Fresh Face
Banned
Yes, go on. You're fine if you give evidence of your credentials (to a mod; you don't have to say it to all of us). If you aren't banned, we'll know you're legit.
Also, the reason you aren't a member is because you haven't posted enough. I think it's 300 posts.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Fresh Face
Banned
That can't be a serious question.
Yes it can. The rest of his post explains it. Please, provide us with evidence to the contrary. There's a reason Thuway, cboat, and others aren't banned.
LOL, will be a while yet then...
phosphor112
Banned
I wouldn't bother unless it's something juicy.
digoutyoursoul
Member
That can't be a serious question.
I'm glad your sarcasm detector is working
OverBlood 3
Banned
Sooo...the original post, the interview is this good or bad information? I can't glean anything from all the fighting and arguing.
damn schmuplover finally replies and I'm at work and he's banned before I get home
life is unfair sometimes lol
I do believe this is a fair and accurate statement on your part. It is, even to me, sometimes getting out of control in the specifics of Xbox One games. And there's no reason for that. For example, I am highly anticipating Forza 5 and Crimson Dragon. I know I won't be getting an Xbox One for a few years, but that doesn't mean I am going to shit on those games for being associated with the platform. Far from it, I'm anticipating those two games more than any PS4 games at the moment!
It is sad that some posters have to go to the entire other extreme and just black out over the situation. To me, my beef is with Microsoft and some of their hardware decisions and philosophy - not the games themselves. Many of the games look like an amazing and fun time, some of them look quite fleshed out and daring, and still others seem like visual spectacles despite the hardware shortcomings. Xbox One is going to have some damn fine games.
I still understand being skeptical about claims surrounding said games if the source is Microsoft, but the developers behind these products have often been pulled into the fire - even though most had nothing to do with Microsoft's hardware decisions - and had their hard work automatically rejected, just for being associated with it.
I am glad for the 180s though. Besides making a better platform to me, it means I won't have to take a principled stand against the system and can eventually enjoy the games at some point. This is a huge relief as someone who was a primary 360 gamer last gen.
It is, as I said, excessive at times and exaggerated at times. But to me it's just a necessary byproduct of the damage done. And it does have some usefulness: companies generally don't react to complacency. It takes loud and over-the-top reactions to get their attention most of the time, as far as I've seen it anyway.
I totally agree with your philosophy. However, I do believe that there does come a time when we have to draw a reasonable line and say "this source probably does not have much merit anymore", if they have a track record of such behavior. People when they say comments like that are pretty much just at their breaking point with having to dissect the same tired lines and PR messaging that takes place in Leadbetter's articles.
I still think there should be vibrant discussion around the articles because that's how I am, but it does mean I have an understanding for why people say the things they do automatically about the articles. It's just behavior earned by behavior led.
The problem as I said is that Microsoft and their PR team continue to stretch the facts, exaggerate the truth extensively, use couched language to try to make things seem closer than they are. And they continue to delay features every day that they promised. And they still retain several elements of their philosophy that gamers rejected as an aside to the DRM stuff - all apps behind paywall, higher price with packed in Kinect, etc. So, even though I agree the 180s were enough to allow me to feel comfortable buying the XBO at some point next-gen (I'm thinking $299.99 right now), I'm not comfortable saying I feel like Microsoft has changed enough yet. I think they still require a lesson to learn because they're still being very dishonest with some of their approach.
As I said before: if Microsoft stopped the bs yesterday, we'd just now collectively be on the road to trust them again. They haven't stopped the bs yet. That's the final major step that's required before trust can begun to be built again.
I agree with the rest of your POST almost entirely so I won't cover that ground here.
life is unfair sometimes lol
I do believe this is a fair and accurate statement on your part. It is, even to me, sometimes getting out of control in the specifics of Xbox One games. And there's no reason for that. For example, I am highly anticipating Forza 5 and Crimson Dragon. I know I won't be getting an Xbox One for a few years, but that doesn't mean I am going to shit on those games for being associated with the platform. Far from it, I'm anticipating those two games more than any PS4 games at the moment!
It is sad that some posters have to go to the entire other extreme and just black out over the situation. To me, my beef is with Microsoft and some of their hardware decisions and philosophy - not the games themselves. Many of the games look like an amazing and fun time, some of them look quite fleshed out and daring, and still others seem like visual spectacles despite the hardware shortcomings. Xbox One is going to have some damn fine games.
I still understand being skeptical about claims surrounding said games if the source is Microsoft, but the developers behind these products have often been pulled into the fire - even though most had nothing to do with Microsoft's hardware decisions - and had their hard work automatically rejected, just for being associated with it.
I am glad for the 180s though. Besides making a better platform to me, it means I won't have to take a principled stand against the system and can eventually enjoy the games at some point. This is a huge relief as someone who was a primary 360 gamer last gen.
It is, as I said, excessive at times and exaggerated at times. But to me it's just a necessary byproduct of the damage done. And it does have some usefulness: companies generally don't react to complacency. It takes loud and over-the-top reactions to get their attention most of the time, as far as I've seen it anyway.
I totally agree with your philosophy. However, I do believe that there does come a time when we have to draw a reasonable line and say "this source probably does not have much merit anymore", if they have a track record of such behavior. People when they say comments like that are pretty much just at their breaking point with having to dissect the same tired lines and PR messaging that takes place in Leadbetter's articles.
I still think there should be vibrant discussion around the articles because that's how I am, but it does mean I have an understanding for why people say the things they do automatically about the articles. It's just behavior earned by behavior led.
The problem as I said is that Microsoft and their PR team continue to stretch the facts, exaggerate the truth extensively, use couched language to try to make things seem closer than they are. And they continue to delay features every day that they promised. And they still retain several elements of their philosophy that gamers rejected as an aside to the DRM stuff - all apps behind paywall, higher price with packed in Kinect, etc. So, even though I agree the 180s were enough to allow me to feel comfortable buying the XBO at some point next-gen (I'm thinking $299.99 right now), I'm not comfortable saying I feel like Microsoft has changed enough yet. I think they still require a lesson to learn because they're still being very dishonest with some of their approach.
As I said before: if Microsoft stopped the bs yesterday, we'd just now collectively be on the road to trust them again. They haven't stopped the bs yet. That's the final major step that's required before trust can begun to be built again.
I agree with the rest of your POST almost entirely so I won't cover that ground here.
Well given the frequency of bans this past week! Yes i know those bans were rather obvious but still. Like i say, i'm not going any further. If a mod wants to talk to me then fine.
And this isn't juicy as such, like i say...i'm not going to go any further.
crazygambit
Member
Actually, what's really dangerous is hinting you have some inside information without backing up your sources. So if he valued his junior status so much, he should have kept that to himself.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Dude, shit or get off the pot.
digoutyoursoul
Member
True
digoutyoursoul
Member
Come on man, I am aware of the situation I was taking the piss. You shouldn't hint at stuff then say you won't say what it is. We have enough unbearable fanboys frothing at the mouth as it is