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Digital Foundry vs Mario Kart 8
- Thread starter XDDX
- Start date
KojiKnight
Member
It's not about criticizing the article, it's about downplaying DF and/or their methods (saying they are "nit picking") or saying things like "No one will even notice this, and if anyone says they do they are just imagining it" sort of things.
If you have legit criticisms about how DF does things, or if you legitimately can't see an issue then it's fine to say that... but picking fights with people who have issues with the frame stutter for no reason doesn't go over well.
Scooter155
Member
Man, I feel for those guys, seems like the kind of thing I might post if I'm in a bad mood or something.
I for one don't notice the stutter, but I'm worried now that I'm looking for it I'll see it. Does the article have any info on what might be causing it? Can't see it at work :\
Aquamarine
Member
Yeah. DF's job is literally TO BE NITPICKY about every little thing they find. Criticising people for being thorough at their job...generally isn't a very smart thing to do.
Personally I haven't been able to notice the 1 frame drop in-game...in my experience, playing MK8 has been seamless.
But that doesn't make the issues with MK8 any less valid. The frame drop is still there, regardless of whether I can personally detect it with my untrained eye. Trying to wave off that issue like it doesn't exist or laugh at DF for nitpicking just makes for bad commentary on the subject.
Just claiming that it's "a nitpick" means that you already downplaying it. Most people here don't get the issue right either. No one bothers that the game drops 1 frame. They are bothered by a result, which is a visible stutter effect. Doesn't matter if a game drops 1 frame or 6 or 10 frames, the result is always the same = stutter.
It's not about criticizing the articles, it's about dismissing the work of Digital Foundry as mere 'nitpicking' that's supposedly meant in this case to be a hit job against Nintendo (and a criticism of a game that some people believe is beyond criticism for some reason). The point being that of course it's nitpicking (and I don't mean this in a dismissive sense)! DF are, in fact, professional nitpickers - their job is to analyze and present technical findings regarding the games they play, no matter how minor. People like me thrive on this kind of stuff, regardless of what the findings are regarding any particular game.
(Note that in this case, the problem is actually serious enough to affect some people's enjoyment of the game. Some people are really susceptible to stuttering, doubly so if it happens in a predictable pattern. Fortunately, this also seems like the kind of issue that's easily fixed in software, but may not have even been acknowledged, let alone addressed, if groups like DF weren't doing their analysis.)
That, combined with 'thread whining' (coming in and complaining about how a thread shouldn't exist), is a pretty easy ticket to a ban around here. No need to worry about bans if you come into a thread and contribute in a meaningful way.
plagiarize
Banned
I know what he's talking about, and it's probably caused by frame timings. it's a similar phenomena to you see with microstuttering on dual GPU PCs.
imagine it like this: if I take a rock solid 30 fps game like AC4, my 30 frames all display for a 30th of a second AND all represent moments in game a 30th of a second apart.
however, say my game is rendering at 45 fps. If I get to 30 fps by just dropping every third frame, then the amount of in game time between frames is going to be inconsistent, even if they are all displaying for a thirtieth of a second.
I don't know if that's what Infamous is doing mind, but the effect is one that feels like that. It'd be very difficult to figure out just by analyzing video. You'd have to manually compare frame to frame, measuring how far objects moving at consistent speeds had moved from one frame to the next.
Windom Earle
Member
I started playing this game today. It's still not fixed, wtf Nintendo. Patch asap please, game is awesome and doesn't deserve this judder.
Windom Earle
Member
*Facepalm*
Man... if people have trouble with that little issue, I can't imagine how they feel while playing a game that can go from 60 to 25 FPS(hello Diablo 3 and WoW) depending on what's going on on your screen or for games that can't handle more than 30 FPS with the occasional stutter.
Windom Earle
Member
If Diablo 3 is dropping below 60 on your PC you might want to upgrade it.
I am mostly a PC gamer these days so I am used to locked 60 and this judder is jarring.
Larogue
Member
for those who missed thisHere is a terrifically bad image made by yours truly to visually illustrate what Digital Foundry appear to be describing.
The top image is locked 60fps. Red/blue indicating new frames. In this instance we see sixty new frames are rendered in consistent sequence for each of the two seconds.
Middle image is locked 30fps. Red/blue again indicating new frames, same consistency, but as you can see there's only half the data by comparison.
It doesn't matter if the game is a different number to these. It could be 40fps, 50fps, 59fps, 43fps, whatever. The frame count fits into each second.
The last image is Mario Kart 8. Based on Digital Foundry's observation the 64th frame is a repeat of the previous frame. This is not technically 59fps. 59fps would be like the top two images: new alternating frames throughout the time period. This is not true for Mario Kart 8. Look at the start of the second bar, and you can see two red frames next to each other. That's what's happening. The scene is refreshing sixty times per second each time, but the 64th frame in each sequence is, for some reason, a double up. Not just a drop in frame rate, but a repeated frame.
This is what we call stutter/judder and can be quite annoying for some people. It's also unusual for a game that seems to otherwise render a full 60 individual frames in a second. So yeah, I guess it's a technical bug.
Seems to be, and yes it should be fixable.
quickwhips
Member
what resolution does this game run at?
Or maybe the network is having one of its day...AT least that was how it was when I tried it.
KojiKnight
Member
720p
Looking back on the first page, it seems most people were only temp banned. It's no longer a graveyard.
Yeah, but they missed E3. That's almost worse than a permaban.
OT: I've played MK8 a fair amount and I am yet to notice the stutter. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing for my enjoyment of the game, or a sign that my eyes are getting worse.
My PC was a beast ~3 years ago(could run Battlefield 3 and Witcher 2 on very high settings), so it *should* run Blizzard games just fine.
Diablo 3 runs perfectly fine on my PC unless there is too many special (Wizard) effects or when running on the burning bridge in Act 3.
I can't explain it, it's just bad optimization on Blizzard's part.
So yeah... when i'm used to see huge framerate drops like this, something really minor like MK8 issue isn't something i'll notice, and I bet people at Nintendo won't ever fix it(if they're even aware of it). As far as I know, they never released a patch to improve performance of a game.
It's only disappointing as the game is otherwise very polished. Nintendo games tend to hold up brilliantly decades later and this will be no exception BUT it's a damn shame that such a glitch made it through to the disc. It doesn't ruin the game at all but it's not good.
I dunno, man, PC games in general still tend to suffer from little hitches or skips even on powerful hardware. Kind of hard to completely eliminate in all games.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
I almost wish I didn't read this article since I doubt I would have noticed that one frame, but I do 
. Sorry if this has been asked already but I don't seem to notice it in online multi. Am I crazy or is it only in single player?
. Sorry if this has been asked already but I don't seem to notice it in online multi. Am I crazy or is it only in single player?
Windom Earle
Member
I guess Diablo can drop on some rare circumstances indeed but that usually only happens to me when heavily downsampling. But I have a strong CPU as well, maybe this is your bottleneck.
Still, I don't really know what's worse. MK doesn't have any drops, it is just this stupid little issue. But unfortunately it happens pretty much nonstop in CPU races so it's annoying. Really hope they will fix it.
True, it happens for some badly optimized games. My system is very balanced though so most games are perfectly smooth for me. It definitely taught me to notice stutter/judder in general.
You are correct.
After spending nearly a month with a game, I'd have to say the thing I hate most graphically is the shitty texture filtering. It makes things look so amateur. It's especially noticeable on tracks like Royal Raceway and Rainbow Road 64 and it's really jarring. I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it.
Windom Earle
Member
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Weird. Well hopefully they can fix it in an update. I wonder if it's AI related.
lightchris
Member
Lack of AF is a next gen feature on PS4.
It's not only a lack of AF in MK8, it's bilinear filtering (or at least close to it).
To be fair, it's usually just really low levels of AF (2-4x). Bumping up to 8 or 16x makes a HUGE difference.
lightchris
Member
Just to prevent a misunderstanding: I was talking about MK8 here. The banding is pretty bad there.