This game was NEVER 1080p. This is the WiiU. I don't think there has ever been an AAA 1080p game on this console. The XBone has trouble putting out 1080p games at 60fps that aren't indie titles, who in their right mind would think a game that looks this good could be 60fps on the WiiU hardware at 1080p?????
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Digital Foundry vs Mario Kart 8
- Thread starter XDDX
- Start date
This game was NEVER 1080p. This is the WiiU. I don't think there has ever been an AAA 1080p game on this console. The XBone has trouble putting out 1080p games at 60fps that aren't indie titles, who in their right mind would think a game that looks this good could be 60fps on the WiiU hardware at 1080p?????
correct. It's a bit hard to see but once you notice it the first time it appears over and over about every second.
KojiKnight
Member
Friday.
While no word has been said, I imagine anyone banned in this thread was probably only temp banned. I didn't see anyone go balls to the wall crazy... but anyone that comes into a DF thread getting mad at DF making a technical analysis they don't like is silly (especially after EviLore himself came into the thread to try and explain things)
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Monster Hunter, Zelda TWW and Smash Bros (which is also 60fps) are 1080p (obviously Rayman Legend too).
But yes, this game was incorrectly reported by some outlets as 1080p but informed people knew that the official word on it was for 720p/60.
Wish I hadn't read this. Odds are I would have noticed it eventually, but now I won't be able to avoid noticing it.
Wow. It's a schooner.
Dont See it.
stereogram generator, Cant do them myself so cant check if works
Wow. It's a schooner.
Wipeout was 1080p on PS3, the WiiU has a better GPU, it doesn't seen unreasonable that this would be.
Calling Wipeout 1080p isn't lying, but it's definitely not the whole story. Of course the Wii U could have 1080p games, but compromises would have to be made. Wipeout on the PS3 decided to compromise on the horizontal resolution and made it variable. This isn't necessarily an option on Wii U which doesn't have the power of the cell processor sitting there to fall back on.
Can't say I'm not really disappointed by this news. Stuttering/hitching really bugs me.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Can't see it...thank goodness.
I'm seriously just going to try to forget I saw this thread.
Squeeeeeeee! I love Mario Kart!
This is one of those framerate things I cant actually see. I cant tell what 60 fps looks like. It just looks fast and kinda fzeroish.
I look forward to it
Not true. I would have noticed it the minute I started playing the game and I would have been straight onto GAF to ask others if they had seen it too.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I noticed it in videos but thought it was my imagination.
It's a very real and unfortunate distraction.
prag16
Banned
+1
I can see it now but only if I really concentrate on it. If I focus on the racing I don't notice. Hopefully it stays that way. Either way, they should fix it. We'll see.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
That's my issue. If I'm paying attention, I absolutely see it.
Only one solution: Get drunk while playing.
Aquamarine
Member
I really can't notice it...
Edit: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^: You can see it in slowmo here. I can't spot it in the full speed webp either, but haven't watched it outside chrome:
Excactly what I said. One frame repeated so it is displayed for 1/60 of a second times 2 which is 1/30 of a second
Sped up a bit, easy to see.
It has nothing to do with 'LOL 1 FPS' but rather with it being inconsistent.
Excactly what I said. One frame repeated so it is displayed for 1/60 of a second times 2 which is 1/30 of a second
Maybe more the case in 3D World where finer details far away are blurred by the simulated bokeh. Aren't there also some more primitive methods used in earlier 360 games?They call that FXAA (or some variant of it)... and yes, it essentially it's just a post processing shader who's job is to blur aliasing
Yea, if anything that clip was outstanding. This game looks super fun.
And smooth, to boot.
DemurOnion
Banned
I too am wondering if it is noticeable. I can handle quite a bit. I have FF14 running on a pretty beast 770 4GB and that thing still buckles with SGSSAA all the time, even at 2x. So essentially in towns I deal with slowdown a LOT.
I know this is racing game but I think I could handle it if the buckling issue is not a prominent hitch in the graphics. I'm more concerned why and the heck they didn't go with at least FXAA? Anyone on this?
I know this is racing game but I think I could handle it if the buckling issue is not a prominent hitch in the graphics. I'm more concerned why and the heck they didn't go with at least FXAA? Anyone on this?
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I guess my eyes just can't see the missing frame, I'll take DF's word for it.
Either way game still looks slick as fuck.
LOL
Either way game still looks slick as fuck.
LOL
DemurOnion
Banned
No, I feel they are competent, I'm just not at the moment able to tell where their ceiling is. If you were to say to me do they have guys like the top ones at ND and Metro and blah blah I would say prooobably not.
But I don't think they absolutely require that. I would REALLY like to see N on better hardware though. I cannot stress this enough. I respect the 60FPS thing a lot, but I have to be honest when I say their image quality presently is not playable for me. If this is N's transition period then so be it. I hope they come back really strong next time.
TBH if they came out with a reasonably powerful machine in 2016 for 300 bucks I would not hesitate to buy it day one.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Sped up a bit, easy to see.
It has nothing to do with 'LOL 1 FPS' but rather with it being inconsistent.
Ok, that I can see, but considering how fast the game is goes, I most likely will never see it otherwise.
Sped up a bit, easy to see.
It has nothing to do with 'LOL 1 FPS' but rather with it being inconsistent.
Oh, now I see. So there is merit in what DF said.
Personally, it won't ever register with me as I'm playing. Though, it is a curious effect.
They maybe didn't think FXAA was desirable, especially as it's not completely free.
FXAA can make large edges reasonably stable, but they sometimes still have a wobbly appearance (it feels like the resulting gradient patterns aren't as accurate as those produced through SMAA). And it fails terribly on badly undersampled details, to the point that many people think it makes them worse. Meanwhile, it can soften the image.
Professor Beef
Banned
DemurOnion
Banned
This is what concerns me. If this is a continuous hitch in gameplay that is something that needs to be patched and it should DEFinitely have been noted by reviewers.
I had a problem possibly like that in KZ shadowfall after a patch and I just rebuilt database. It was not playable with that hitch either but no idea how bad this is in real life.
MasterOfPuppets
Member
I recommend everyone try to do this.
DemurOnion
Banned
I agree totally. I know it isn't free but you would think they could afford it. FXAA at least does soften a lot of the jaggies in my experience compared to none at all. In the few games where I use it on PC when forced it definitely seems to help the game out 1080p without vs with.
For this artstyle I do think in fact FXAA would help.
I had similar issues a while back when trying to get Xenoblade to run at a solid 30fps.
The audio caused this strange hitch, which at 30fps was unfortunately noticeable.
At 60 (59?) fps, I wonder if I will be able to notice. I can easily see how this would
annoy some people.
Perhaps a patch can address this?
MvmntInGrn
Member
Downloaded some Gamersyde videos. Can't see the stuttering during normal play, and hitches usually drive me nuts too. I think the game looks beautiful and the lack of AA isn't as jarring here, judging on these HD videos, as I remember it in other no AA games of last gen (first ones that come to mind: Bayonetta, inFamous 1)
EDIT: The more I watch these Gamersyde videos the more impressed I am. Really pretty game in my opinion.
EDIT: The more I watch these Gamersyde videos the more impressed I am. Really pretty game in my opinion.
Depends on whether it's a bug or intentional. This is far-fetched, but it is possible that there's some extra processing or buffering going on during that one duplicate frame.
To all the people saying that this is something that DEFINITELY NEEDS TO GET FIXED and other stuff.. There's been multiple 60fps videos released before, and I'm 100% sure many of you have seen it. Now, how many of you did notice that stutter every 64 frames?
Because until Digital Foundry said it, I'm 100% sure nobody really talked about it here, and everybody was just saying "damn that's soooo smooooooooooooooth" and stuff like that.
So really, you might notice it when you are standing still or when you are watching the video in slow motion where you're told it's happening. But when you're playing this is pretty much impossible to notice, and Nintendo must have a reason why they did it. So yeah, this DEFINITELY DOESN'T NEED TO GET FIXED. In my opinion, anyway.
Edit: I'm not saying that what DF did is nitpicking or not. I think it's their job to notice anything like this. I'm only talking about the people exaggerating and saying this is horrible, or something.
Because until Digital Foundry said it, I'm 100% sure nobody really talked about it here, and everybody was just saying "damn that's soooo smooooooooooooooth" and stuff like that.
So really, you might notice it when you are standing still or when you are watching the video in slow motion where you're told it's happening. But when you're playing this is pretty much impossible to notice, and Nintendo must have a reason why they did it. So yeah, this DEFINITELY DOESN'T NEED TO GET FIXED. In my opinion, anyway.
Edit: I'm not saying that what DF did is nitpicking or not. I think it's their job to notice anything like this. I'm only talking about the people exaggerating and saying this is horrible, or something.
I havent played Mario Kart since the N64 days.....I like what I see. This might not save the Wii U overall, but it might save it in our home. My kids are big into racing right now.
And yea.....ease up on DF findings. What else do you expect? Thats like being pissed at an Anandtech article about the technical finding of some cpu, video card, smartphone, etc.
To DF and the folks that contribute to their articles, keep doing what you do. If thats all they could find faults with....Nintendo has to be proud.
And yea.....ease up on DF findings. What else do you expect? Thats like being pissed at an Anandtech article about the technical finding of some cpu, video card, smartphone, etc.
To DF and the folks that contribute to their articles, keep doing what you do. If thats all they could find faults with....Nintendo has to be proud.
Solid Samus
Banned
this seems like a valid response to many of the first page posts... :/
I suppose the fact it's a first party game could mean that the designers made deliberate decisions about the experience they delivered to the player, that they as creators have the luxury of crafting an experience tailored to the machine they themselves created, and they as creators deliver the game in the way they want. To be honest, resolution and scaling bluriness is the only thing that's ever bugged me when running games where I have control over those issues. But for console exclusives I know that the game is crafted in the way the creators want to craft and that they have the luxury of doing it their way to accomplish what they want. So I'm inclined to think the experience they delivered here could very well be the one they intend, similar to how, for instance, Halo 3's resolution was the way it was, why console games can be optimized to run off of discs rather than hard drives, why GTA V had its funny two discs plus install thing, and so it's to me just an amusing mystery to find out the reasons for technical decisions like this and to enjoy the games while appreciating the crafting that goes into them.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
As I mentioned, I noticed it in videos months ago but figured I was imagining it.
I hopefully won't notice while playing, but why wouldn't you be in favor of Nintendo fixing it?
Well I disagree with that. Nintendo employs a lot of people. From Retro to Monolith. They have a lot of talent and innovative people. Imo Nintendo are the top dog and I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way. I wouldn't say Nintendo is better than X, Y or Z because every dog has its day and a lot of talented people are employed in this industry and it's not so clear cut or fair to make direct comparisons. It belittles and makes light of devs and the work they put into their games. It's not linear. Every dev has its highs and lows. But with that said anyone who thinks Nintendo aren't at the top chilling with the best are crazy. But I digress, it's off topic.
Everyone has different standards with lots of people playing on high end PC games and what have you so if you genuinely feel that way then fair enough but thank god I don't feel this way. To me all the first party Wii U games look amazing. All looks great to me. I've always been able to discern all the amazing visuals you get on high end PC's etc. I recognise that stuff, but even so MK8 looks amazing visually. As does WWHD and 3D World. You could say I'm less sensitive but I really feel like these games are genuinely amazing looking, lack of AA or otherwise. Maybe my TV is really good or something *shrugs*
It's a bug....bugs need to be fixed. I might not notice it myself but even then shrugging off a bug that causes stuttering as something that doesn't need to be fixed is....wow.
I just entered this thread for the first time and naturally, my first reaction was "What the fuck happened here!?!? It's a bloodbath!"
Thanks to the Target trade-in, I think I'll be able to pick this one up now. Excited to play a MK game again even with my skepticism over some things.
The lack of anti-aliasing is annoying but everything else looks good all things considered.
So I extracted every frame from Dictator93's video
wrote a small program to see the numerical difference between two consecutive frames and this is what I have
The noise floor of this video is about 1e6, and there are 7 frames are (almost) identical to the previous ones (out of total 796 frames). Manually checked just to make sure.
Did the same thing for KojiKnight's video, and I have this erroe plot(noise floor is about 5e6)
Duplicated frames are 24 out of 2000, (2000 is around when the race ends).
So, yes there are frames skipped, and no, it's not 1 every 60 frames. On average, it's about one every 83 frames during race.
wrote a small program to see the numerical difference between two consecutive frames and this is what I have
The noise floor of this video is about 1e6, and there are 7 frames are (almost) identical to the previous ones (out of total 796 frames). Manually checked just to make sure.
Code:
frame# = 150 279 344 473 538 603 732Did the same thing for KojiKnight's video, and I have this erroe plot(noise floor is about 5e6)
Duplicated frames are 24 out of 2000, (2000 is around when the race ends).
Code:
frame#= 144 148 210 275 340 405 470 535 665 730 795 860 925 990 1055 1120 1145 1186 1251 1700 1765 1830 1895 1960So, yes there are frames skipped, and no, it's not 1 every 60 frames. On average, it's about one every 83 frames during race.
Gentleman Jack
Member
You're dismissing the very notion that people can be sensitive to screen judder, which is nonsense, and then you speculate on why this could be intentional on Nintendo's part, which is also nonsense. People want this bug to be fixed, why is that so bad?