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Digital Foundry: Xbox Series X: Thermal + Power Consumption Analysis.

Relativ9 said:
Well like I said, I don't know much about thermal calculations and performance, I just based if off 200W producing 60C, which in my lizard-brain meant that 100W probably produces 30C, which in my monkey-brain again means 300W produces 90C...it was more intended as a hyperbolic way to pose the question.
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I am sorry if I came off as an old raisin. Sometimes it's hard to decipher if someone is being a flacid dick, or asking a genuine question, and I'm sorry for that.
 
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Andodalf said:
IDK why you'd assume that they and MS would just straight up lie, but a number of things look to be exact matches for PC Ultra, such as the reflectivity of floors. It's worth noting that this is Ultra and not Insane, so in some areas the XSX version is behind "Maxed" PC settings.
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We'll see how performance fares in other titles.

But dirt 5 looks like crap, and it dips into the 50s. Maybe the dirt developers suck, but it's the first hints that perhaps everything is not so rosy.

We also saw how Halo looked, maybe it's another crappy developer. But already we have two titles that look like crap showing many apparent performance issues.
 
OSC said:
We'll see how performance fares in other titles.

But dirt 5 looks like crap, and it dips into the 50s. Maybe the dirt developers suck, but it's the first hints that perhaps everything is not so rosy.

We also saw how Halo looked, maybe it's another crappy developer. But already we have two titles that look like crap showing many apparent performance issues.
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Would dirt 5 perform or look better than XSX on ps5? It is a multiplatforms game you know.
 
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Looks like a fantastic device; well built, well balanced, well.. no great first party games yet. But that'll change for sure!
 
OSC said:
We'll see how performance fares in other titles.

But dirt 5 looks like crap, and it dips into the 50s. Maybe the dirt developers suck, but it's the first hints that perhaps everything is not so rosy.

We also saw how Halo looked, maybe it's another crappy developer. But already we have two titles that look like crap showing many apparent performance issues.
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Dirt 5 isn't finished code.

Halo was on PC.
 
Tripolygon said:
I'm telling you that you are woefully wrong about the adoption of asynchronous compute in the industry as a whole. When Mark Cerny said during the beginning of this gen in 2013 that he hopes that Asynchronous computer become a large part of game development.

He was right and it is a large part of game development. You can't tell from just looking at games, you would have to read developer documentations and presentations to see that. Luckily that's the type of shit i enjoy and spend my time doing.

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ok so you misunderstanding (and avoiding) the important timestamp in the quote was all along because you're upset i pointed how optimistic it end up to be.
you need a hug
tenor.gif
 
ethomaz said:
Probably because these temperatures are on read and not top of the PS4 Pro.

BTW I don't have a PS4 Pro but it is criticized even today due these thermal issues.
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PS4 pro is a real piece of shit and it's what's made me not trust Sony with more money.

The fan noise and high heat from these old things, along with other issues that were less reported like HDCP handshake issues.

Pro is the furthest thing from a "professional" or "elite" console experience.

Here's another fun thing when you have the official Sony backbuttons on the controller there is a very awful lag when you're in a game and press the PS button, it sometimes results in multiple presses coming out at once...YES I've cleaned the database, NO it's not my harddrive, when I play with that off it works fine. If Sony had just nutted up and baked those buttons into a type of "pro" controller I would have happily bought that instead. Most times I end up just using my Xbox Elite with the Brook X One adapter for my PS4 gameplay.

It's good to see another raw analysis video from DF there was a slight cringe sour grapes dig at Sony at the end however, they need to stop that amateur immature shit.
 
Relativ9 said:
I'd be interested to see how this does using more of it's PSU (say close to 300W) while lying on it's side. If top in vertical mode is 62C while drawing 200W power, how will the less efficient sideways orientation coupled with 100W in power draw fare? 90C?
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Vapor Chamber have one advantage of being able to perform with different orientation better.
 
OSC said:
So people didn't think the abysmal graphics and pop-in wasn't series X's actual output.
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I think we'll be seeing compromises across the board on open world 4k 60fps games, this is also a demo of a cross gen unfinished game on a PC.
 
OSC said:
So people didn't think the abysmal graphics and pop-in was series X's actual output.
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You clearly have an agenda on these forums, and it's obvious as hell. The game is unfinished code, and it won't look any better on ps5. Stop trying to push you agenda please and thank you. Let the developers finish the game, and wait for DF to pick apart your claims.
 
DonJuanSchlong said:
You clearly have an agenda on these forums, and it's obvious as hell. The game is unfinished code, and it won't look any better on ps5. Stop trying to push you agenda please and thank you. Let the developers finish the game, and wait for DF to pick apart your claims.
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I'm talking about halo, that was claimed ran on pc. A series x first party one or two months away from launch, running on pc ,while they've had the series x console around in videos for months.
 
OSC said:
I'm talking about halo, that was claimed ran on pc. A series x first party one or two months away from launch, running on pc ,while they've had the series x console around in videos for months.
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You mentioned dirt 5, and I'm telling you please stop your FUD about it, as it won't look or perform better on ps5. Anyone can literally go thorough a page or two of your posts, and see your obvious bias against Xbox and Nvidia. I'm all for a mature discussion, just not one with your made up agenda. We can start over fresh if you'd like?
 
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DonJuanSchlong said:
You mentioned dirt 5, and I'm telling you please stop your FUD about it, as it won't look or perform better on ps5. Anyone can literally go thorough a page or two of your posts, and see your obvious bias against Xbox and Nvidia. I'm all for a mature discussion, just not one with your made up agenda. We can start over fresh if you'd like?
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I mentioned both.

And someone said halo was on pc, and asked why would they lie about halo being on pc? I answered.

edit: BTW I don't have a bias against nvidia, I have a bias against those peddling that the new console games will look no better than current games. I use nvidia as an example of how even their next next gen cards are unlikely to have assets beyond hollywood film assets, as they tend to provide the top performance pc graphics cards. And if consoles make use of hollywood film assets at 60fps, the difference won't be perceptible even with a much more advanced graphic cards.
 
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DonJuanSchlong said:
I am sorry if I came off as an old raisin. Sometimes it's hard to decipher if someone is being a flacid dick, or asking a genuine question, and I'm sorry for that.
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No worries, like i said, "too many long winters" meaning everyone is so used to console warring that anything said that could be negatively interpreted is frames as hate, trolling or shilling. I'm guilty of this myself :P
 
OSC said:
I mentioned both.

And someone said halo was on pc, and asked why would they lie about halo being on pc? I answered.
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They wouldn't lie about it being on PC or being not ready for completion, otherwise they would have pushed it out, right? That's common sense. Should we play the speculation game and ask why are there cross gen games, when "we don't believe in generations?" What about GoW supposedly on ps4? That's why it's dumb to console war as it can go against you. And I'm not even getting either console! But it's annoying to see the same handful of people constantly doing the same thing, in every thread, especially when you just wanna discuss things, and not console war.
 
DonJuanSchlong said:
They wouldn't lie about it being on PC or being not ready for completion, otherwise they would have pushed it out, right? That's common sense. Should we play the speculation game and ask why are there cross gen games, when "we don't believe in generations?" What about GoW supposedly on ps4? That's why it's dumb to console war as it can go against you. And I'm not even getting either console! But it's annoying to see the same handful of people constantly doing the same thing, in every thread, especially when you just wanna discuss things, and not console war.
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They were gonna release it, you seem to forget. It wasn't until it became a laughingstock and internet meme machine that they decided to push it away.
 
M1chl said:
Vapor Chamber have one advantage of being able to perform with different orientation better.
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Got any link to that? It always bothers me whenever I see a vapor chamber put vertically, or better yet, upside down like in PC GPUs, because logically, all the liquid falls down, not actually sticking with the chip, therefore not transferring the heat effectively like it's meant to do. I look at the XSX and I cannot fight the feeling that the best cooling efficiency it would achieve by lying on the left side, not the right one as MS advertises, and even put rubber feet on it. Thanks in advance.
 
OSC said:
They were gonna release it, you seem to forget. It wasn't until it became a laughingstock and internet meme machine that they decided to push it away.
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So it was delayed since it wasn't ready? Am I missing something here? Even you seem to be agreing that it wasn't ready. So what's your point, besides it running on PC and not being ready for release? Let's see if you spin this some more.
 
ZywyPL said:
Got any link to that? It always bothers me whenever I see a vapor chamber put vertically, or better yet, upside down like in PC GPUs, because logically, all the liquid falls down, not actually sticking with the chip, therefore not transferring the heat effectively like it's meant to do. I look at the XSX and I cannot fight the feeling that the best cooling efficiency it would achieve by lying on the left side, not the right one as MS advertises, and even put rubber feet on it. Thanks in advance.
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I saw some video like when X1X came out, however I cannot find it, so here is some papers:
www.researchgate.net

(PDF) Testing of Vapour Chamber Used in Electronics Cooling

PDF | This paper presents experimental measurement of performance of a vapour chamber (VC), also known as a flat plate heat pipe, for electronics... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate
www.researchgate.net www.researchgate.net
 
ethomaz said:
It is the same claim lol
Just because I did not type 95% doesn't make it false.
No game in the market reaches no where close to 95% GPU utlization.
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Are you serious? That happens all the time.
Source: I play games on PC


Unless you are using a different word than you mean?
 
Tripolygon said:
Here is a question. If a game is using or not using asynchronous compute, how can you martino martino tell that a particular game is not using asynchronous compute.

Lets take for instance Gears 5, Doom, Horizon Zero Dawn, Clay Book, The Witcher 3, The Division, Hitman, Tomb Raider, Battlefield 1, Deus Ex, RDR2, Which one would you say uses or does not use Asynchronous compute?
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Horizon zero dawn on pc uses 8 ACE, that's why I can't play it on my laptop with m290x (GCN 1.0).
 
DonJuanSchlong said:
So it was delayed since it wasn't ready? Am I missing something here? Even you seem to be agreing that it wasn't ready. So what's your point, besides it running on PC and not being ready for release? Let's see if you spin this some more.
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They thought it was ready and scheduled for launch. It wasn't until the last moment when everyone started laughing and making memes, that they said "Holy shit! we thought this looked pretty good, but it seems like it doesn't we better delay it."
 
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Rentahamster said:
Are you serious? That happens all the time.
Source: I play games on PC


Unless you are using a different word than you mean?
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It doesnt.

Yeah, stats can show 100% but it doesnt mean literally that 100% of theoretical performance is used at said moment.

Games dont work like that.

Only GPU benchmarks(some) utilize close to the real 100% and that is the reason why furmark used to break some GPUs and still pushes them more than any game would
 
OSC said:
I mentioned both.

And someone said halo was on pc, and asked why would they lie about halo being on pc? I answered.

edit: BTW I don't have a bias against nvidia, I have a bias against those peddling that the new console games will look no better than current games. I use nvidia as an example of how even their next next gen cards are unlikely to have assets beyond hollywood film assets, as they tend to provide the top performance pc graphics cards. And if consoles make use of hollywood film assets at 60fps, the difference won't be perceptible even with a much more advanced graphic cards.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Only idiots think next gen won't be a fidelity leap closer to what was offered on pc prior to the 3080 launch, while also including even higher quality assets than stuff like Uncharted from last gen.

I don't really understand how the difference between pc and consoles won't be perceptible if pcs can just do the same at 1.5-2x the framerate. Are you saying for Sony exclusives specifically? Because there are plenty of last gen games with super high quality assets that made their way onto pc. Expect that trend to only increase.
 
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grfunkulus said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Only idiots think next gen won't be a fidelity leap closer to what was offered on pc prior to the 3080 launch, while also including even higher quality assets than stuff like Uncharted from last gen.

I don't really understand how the difference between pc and consoles won't be perceptible if pcs can just do the same at 1.5-2x the framerate. Are you saying for Sony exclusives specifically? Because there are plenty of last gen games with super high quality assets that made their way onto pc. Expect that trend to only increase.
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Of course pc ports are possible, they have higher performance. But for example the atom view, 90fps VR with hollywood film assets. Sure you can get 120-150fps in pc, but it won't mean much.

I do agree that pcs can benefit from higher framerates. But the current top pc titles look current gen, they don't look nextgen. The idea that this gen won't show a leap in quality above current gen, is interesting.

If gow is exclusive and not cross-gen, guess we'll see if they're right. Or if just like happened with ps4, we get people claiming the trailers are fake, it can't be!, it has to be cg! they're lying! only to be fed crow from people actually sharing their gameplay later.
 
OSC said:
Of course pc ports are possible, they have higher performance. But for example the atom view, 90fps VR with hollywood film assets. Sure you can get 120-150fps in pc, but it won't mean much.

I do agree that pcs can benefit from higher framerates. But the current top pc titles look current gen, they don't look nextgen. The idea that this gen won't show a leap in quality above current gen, is interesting.

If gow is exclusive and not cross-gen, guess we'll see if they're right. Or if just like happened with ps4, we get people claiming the trailers are fake, it can't be!, it has to be cg! they're lying! only to be fed crow from people actually sharing their gameplay later.
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What games were those? I recall uncharted had a huge downgrade with near cg visuals, but I'm struggling to think of another people said was cg or said it's too good to be true and turned out not to be
 
I'm surprised that it runs cool considering it's packed in that way. honestly I didn't think it would. That's a good job by Msoft.
 
OSC said:
We'll see how performance fares in other titles.

But dirt 5 looks like crap, and it dips into the 50s. Maybe the dirt developers suck, but it's the first hints that perhaps everything is not so rosy.

We also saw how Halo looked, maybe it's another crappy developer. But already we have two titles that look like crap showing many apparent performance issues.
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stupid logic for the win. Lets take the graphics from a multiplatform game and a unfinished game as proof there is some underlying issue. I really think we can't get dumber.
 
oldergamer said:
stupid logic for the win. Lets take the graphics from a multiplatform game and a unfinished game as proof there is some underlying issue. I really think we can't get dumber.
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MS knew the state of Halo for a long time, it wasn't going to miraculously turn around in one or two months. They were planning to release it in that state essentially. They considered it fine.

Their whole series s series x approach makes me suspect they think current gen games at higher res is everything next gen has to offer. That's why they considered the state of Halo acceptable.

It was only when people began actively mocking the graphics and it became a meme joke, that they reconsidered what they original found acceptable.
 
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oldergamer said:
stupid logic for the win. Lets take the graphics from a multiplatform game and a unfinished game as proof there is some underlying issue. I really think we can't get dumber.
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Don't forget we've also got a pixel counter with zero access to the hardware or dev kits claiming that the xbox APIs are unfinished, broken, and in a bad state. Don't ask for any actual proof or evidence though, just take his word for it because all questions will be ignored.
 
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Xaero Gravity said:
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just because your monitoring tool shows 99% utilization that doesen't mean the GPU is using all it's potential. it just means there is now off-die component bottlenecking the GPU. you can have maxed "utilization" while having really bad shader occupancy . in fact that's what we have seen for years with AMD GPUs (e.g. Fury X, Vega they all show 99% in higher res gaming while still being underutilized) and that's exactly the reason why we can't compare TFLOP ratings between different architectures. now we have that same situation with Ampere. that problem can be lessened significantly if engine devs start to code specifically for Ampere's SM setup or via game specific driver optimization.
 
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OSC said:
MS knew the state of Halo for a long time, it wasn't going to miraculously turn around in one or two months. They were planning to release it in that state essentially. They considered it fine.

Their whole series s series x approach makes me suspect they think current gen games at higher res is everything next gen has to offer. That's why they considered the state of Halo acceptable.

It was only when people began actively mocking the graphics and it became a meme joke, that they reconsidered what they original found acceptable.
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Halo has to run on a CPU which was already borderline trash 7 years ago. Just saying.
 
OSC said:
MS knew the state of Halo for a long time, it wasn't going to miraculously turn around in one or two months. They were planning to release it in that state essentially. They considered it fine.

Their whole series s series x approach makes me suspect they think current gen games at higher res is everything next gen has to offer. That's why they considered the state of Halo acceptable.

It was only when people began actively mocking the graphics and it became a meme joke, that they reconsidered what they original found acceptable.
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Yeah, they greatly overestimated how many people are blindly fallen in love with Halo, dunno what they were thinking about showing a next-gen flagship title that looks worse than a 5yo game (H5).
 
ZywyPL said:
Yeah, they greatly overestimated how many people are blindly fallen in love with Halo, dunno what they were thinking about showing a next-gen flagship title that looks worse than a 5yo game (H5).
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Next-gen flagship title......... that's built for and releasing on the current gen?
 
MrFunSocks said:
Next-gen flagship title......... that's built for and releasing on the current gen?
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Nevertheless it was meant to be Series X showcase, at least that's the vibe I was getting from all their hype building around Halo. But like I said, it didn't even look as good as H5, let alone Doom from 2016.
 
ZywyPL said:
Nevertheless it was meant to be Series X showcase, at least that's the vibe I was getting from all their hype building around Halo. But like I said, it didn't even look as good as H5, let alone Doom from 2016.
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Because it's 60fps and open world, of course it won't look as good as them.
 
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