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DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!

Dat "PC like" x86 architecture.

Can't wait to see what a Persona game will look like on this kind of hardware. Atlus, please deliver

Sweet Jesus, I got a nice cold sweat imagining how long it'll take before we see a next gen Persona game. You are an evil man. What's the point, though? Persona is not FF, the series isn't about pushing graphics so they wouldn't see much benefit at all.

Would love that.

Oh and about the framerate console war, it's pretty ridiculous. There is no magic. Games on PS4 or One that runs at 60 fps right now are just pushing less things on screen.

Exactly. Developers make tradeoffs to get the kind of visuals and performance they want. Which is why I doubt Evolution will be able to retain dynamic lighting while aiming for 60 fps. If they pull it off? Kudos to them.

Verendus said that Sony have two jrpg projects one of wich is a huge project. He was right about FF 15 and eluded to kh3 he was wrong about them being exclusive though.

Who is this Verendus guy? Was he banned for getting the exclusivity wrong, like Thuway?
 
You do realize that Microsoft didn't use the actual Xbox One hardware to showcase those games & instead used high-end PC's with high-end Nvidia GTX cards to make the games look much prettier & achieve 1080p w/60 FPS, right?

Forza 5, Ryse, Killer Instinct, Project Spark, and Fifa 14 were all running on actual dev kits/consoles.
 
Verendus said that Sony have two jrpg projects one of wich is a huge project. He was right about FF 15 and eluded to kh3 he was wrong about them being exclusive though.

i dont think he said they were exclusive, i remember him saying something like fans should be happy its coming eventually, FF15 he said kind of exclusive
edit
Kingdom Hearts 3 will be on PS4. It's no secret at this stage that the game exists. The question I think Sony fans want answered is whether it's exclusive, timed exclusive or on multiple platforms. Regardless of when that question is answered, Kingdom Hearts fans will be happy because they'll be playing a next generation Kingdom Hearts after years of waiting.

There is a Kingdom Hearts PS4 game due to be released in 2014. I guess obvious enough which one? Not KH3 btw.
http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=58658473
 
In most cases I most cases I much prefer 30 fps with higher visual quality, than 60 fps with lower visual quality. The exception between action games like revengeance and bayonetta.
 
Gemüsepizza;65524581 said:
Why three years, why not less? From looking at their release list, they usually don't need so much time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naughty_Dog#List_of_games

I wouldn't be suprised if we see the reveal of a launch game from them at gamescom. Two years seems like plenty of time, and according to Cerny developing for PS4 does not take much time. We also know that they will use their "old" engine for the PS4, which will help, too.
Added quality and still getting releases out at a regular pace.
 
I'm late to this thread so I apologize if this has been brought up before, but to me the relative state of graphics between Xbone and PS4 E3 showings is that of technical ambition or rather over-ambition on the PS4 developers' side.

The first wave of Xbone titles is playing it safe: the engines are employing the same set of rendering techniques prevalent during late current generation development (deferred rendering, pre-calculated lighting, post process AA). The developers have fine tuned these techniques to perfection with their last current gen titles and when applied to hardware with 5 times the theoretical shading performance, nearly 5 times the texturing performance, more than 3 times the geometry performance, pixel fill rate and memory bandwidth (both pools) it produces mind blowing results. To me personally, Forza 5 represents the best example of generational leap in perceivable graphics quality since the time I switched from N64 to Dreamcast.

On the other side certain PS4 devs seem intent on upping the ante on the technical side, implementing fully dynamic lighting models, MSAA?, various types of background simulation models (dynamic cloud formation in Drive Club, GPU accelerated particle physics in Knack) and so on. The question that presents itself here is whether the PS4, which is undeniably the more powerful console, has enough oomph under the hood to run all this, render at twice the resolution and still present an immediately noticeable jump in graphics quality. If I go by what I've managed to observe from the E3 showings I can only answer with a reserved "Sort of". While all first party games featured graphics that would have been impossible to replicate faithfully on the PS3, only Infamous: Second Son gave me that chills down my spine: "T-this is impossible... Next Gen is here motherfuckers!" feeling sought-after going into E3.

The PS4 GPU is not a GTX680/770, the golden standard used by technical demos in recent times. Some corners will have to be cut to pump out truly mind blowing visuals. On the other hand I wouldn't want the eternal quest of satisfying the graphics whore in all of us to hamper gameplay experience. I'd much rather have Drive Club launch with really good graphics and offer fully dynamic driving conditions than try to emulate the immaculate "wax museum pretty" of Forza 5 with static conditions. It's up to developers to learn where to cut corners in order to present both aspects in a single package. I've got a feeling we are eventually going to experience this on both consoles, maybe not at launch, but definitely in the following years.
 
I'm late to this thread so I apologize if this has been brought up before, but to me the relative state of graphics between Xbone and PS4 E3 showings is that of technical ambition or rather over-ambition on the PS4 developers' side.

The first wave of Xbone titles is playing it safe: the engines are employing the same set of rendering techniques prevalent during late current generation development (deferred rendering, pre-calculated lighting, post process AA). The developers have fine tuned these techniques to perfection with their last current gen titles and when applied to hardware with 5 times the theoretical shading performance, nearly 5 times the texturing performance, more than 3 times the geometry performance, pixel fill rate and memory bandwidth (both pools) it produces mind blowing results. To me personally, Forza 5 represents the best example of generational leap in perceivable graphics quality since the time I switched from N64 to Dreamcast.

On the other side certain PS4 devs seem intent on upping the ante on the technical side, implementing fully dynamic lighting models, MSAA?, various types of background simulation models (dynamic cloud formation in Drive Club, GPU accelerated particle physics in Knack) and so on. The question that presents itself here is whether the PS4, which is undeniably the more powerful console, has enough oomph under the hood to run all this, render at twice the resolution and still present an immediately noticeable jump in graphics quality. If I go by what I've managed to observe from the E3 showings I can only answer with a reserved "Sort of". While all first party games featured graphics that would have been impossible to replicate faithfully on the PS3, only Infamous: Second Son gave me that chills down my spine: "T-this is impossible... Next Gen is here motherfuckers!" feeling sought-after going into E3.

The PS4 GPU is not a GTX680/770, the golden standard used by technical demos in recent times. Some corners will have to be cut to pump out truly mind blowing visuals. On the other hand I wouldn't want the eternal quest of satisfying the graphics whore in all of us to hamper gameplay experience. I'd much rather have Drive Club launch with really good graphics and offer fully dynamic driving conditions than try to emulate the immaculate "wax museum pretty" of Forza 5 with static conditions. It's up to developers to learn where to cut corners in order to present both aspects in a single package. I've got a feeling we are eventually going to experience this on both consoles, maybe not at launch, but definitely in the following years.

I agree with this statement. The games I've seen on the Xbox one have not impressed me at all. Everyone is raving about forza but to me, all I see is prebaked lighting, poor damage modelling and cardboard looking buildings. Killer instinct without the particle effects is a current gen game in my eyes. The things that impressed me at the Microsoft conference weren't running on Xbox one dev kit and we are going to see this when digital foundry does a comparison video of bf4 on Xbox one and ps4. I don't mean to sound like a fanboy but there is insurmountable evidence to suggest that we are seeing a lot of smoke and mirrors from the Xbox one. Even digital foundry acknowledged this. A lot of corners have been cut and after experiencing rrod multiple times last gen, I'd be wary of anything Microsoft says. Dice developers have said that the ps4 was ahead in the when it comes to the software tools and yet we see unfinished ps4 games having issues yet unfinished games on the Xbox one are all perfect, no framerate issues or anything? I'd be very suspicious especially when several games were seen running on gtx 7xx at e3. I believe that a lot of people will be shocked when the Xbox one is released. I expect a serious downgrade in graphics from what was shown at Microsoft e3 conference(excluding forza, ki, ruse).
 
Just go to Digital Foundry if you want to read his stuff, which I like as well. Then you won't have to suffer the extreme MS fanboyism over at B3D forums.

DF is lovely but DF does not talk about future of games and tech involved in that. DF mainly is fact check of existing games and what they use.

Just because few posters there does not fit your worldview doesn't means forum and users are bad.

That's like saying GAF is Sony land because of few fanboys.
 
Going by what Digital Foundry is saying the PS4 launch games are not looking great. Knack, Killzone and Drive Club seem to be have some real problems with their fps. Drive Club is looking really bad with dropping to 20 fps. Interesting to see if much can change in just a few months.
 
Going by what Digital Foundry is saying the PS4 launch games are not looking great. Knack, Killzone and Drive Club seem to be have some real problems with their fps. Drive Club is looking really bad with dropping to 20 fps. Interesting to see if much can change in just a few months.

Rather selective reading. They said KZ looked very good but had some framerate issues. Driveclub they seemed less than impressed with, but Infamous seemed to be one of the games that impressed them most. They also seemed impressed with AC IV. So I wouldn't say that.
 
Rather selective reading. They said KZ looked very good but had some framerate issues. Driveclub they seemed less than impressed with, but Infamous seemed to be one of the games that impressed them most. They also seemed impressed with AC IV. So I wouldn't say that.
3 games dropping below 30 fps out of the few they tested is not selective reading.

Killzone -When it comes to the tricky issue of control and response, Killzone: Shadow Fall currently delivers a largely 25-30FPS experience with v-sync engaged

A strong trace of input lag is felt when turning the analogue sticks - a quirk that hangs over from the Killzone 2 days. It's a delay in response that is impossible to ignore after playing snappier low-latency shooters,

And yes Infamous does seem to be a game they are impressed with.
 
3 games dropping below 30 fps out of the few they tested is not selective reading.

Killzone -When it comes to the tricky issue of control and response, Killzone: Shadow Fall currently delivers a largely 25-30FPS experience with v-sync engaged

A strong trace of input lag is felt when turning the analogue sticks - a quirk that hangs over from the Killzone 2 days. It's a delay in response that is impossible to ignore after playing snappier low-latency shooters,

And yes Infamous does seem to be a game they are impressed with.

It is 5 months before release, I don't think it is a big deal at this stage. If they are suffering at launch then that is another issue entirely.
 
3 games dropping below 30 fps out of the few they tested is not selective reading.

Killzone -When it comes to the tricky issue of control and response, Killzone: Shadow Fall currently delivers a largely 25-30FPS experience with v-sync engaged

A strong trace of input lag is felt when turning the analogue sticks - a quirk that hangs over from the Killzone 2 days. It's a delay in response that is impossible to ignore after playing snappier low-latency shooters,

And yes Infamous does seem to be a game they are impressed with.
The games need to be judged after release ofcourse. I hope people realise that much.
 
LMAO. This isn't GameFAQ's you're on, bud.

You do realize that Microsoft didn't use the actual Xbox One hardware to showcase those games & instead used high-end PC's with high-end Nvidia GTX cards to make the games look much prettier & achieve 1080p w/60 FPS, right?

Xbox One games At E3 were running on Windows 7 with Nvidia GTX cards?

The PS4 games that were shown at E3 were ran off of actual PS4 early developer kits when they only had 4 GB's of GDDR5 RAM at the time.

"Hey dude this isn't Gamefaqs here!"

Goes on to post a shitty quality Gamefaq level post.

Good job!
 
3 games dropping below 30 fps out of the few they tested is not selective reading.

Killzone -When it comes to the tricky issue of control and response, Killzone: Shadow Fall currently delivers a largely 25-30FPS experience with v-sync engaged

A strong trace of input lag is felt when turning the analogue sticks - a quirk that hangs over from the Killzone 2 days. It's a delay in response that is impossible to ignore after playing snappier low-latency shooters,

And yes Infamous does seem to be a game they are impressed with.
The February demo for KZ seemed much more polished than this one. It was a rock solid 30fps. I think they focused on getting the debut demo polished more than the E3 demo. They've outlined several improvements that they wanted to make from that one and some of them seem to be in place in the E3 build. I think they're just waiting for final dev kits so that they can really tune things up.
 
Going by what Digital Foundry is saying the PS4 launch games are not looking great. Knack, Killzone and Drive Club seem to be have some real problems with their fps. Drive Club is looking really bad with dropping to 20 fps. Interesting to see if much can change in just a few months.
I think at this point I'm just baffled at the technical shortcomings of these games when it come to performance. I can understand games like Watchdogs, Thief, Assassins Creed 4, etc being 30fps because they are cross generation games but exclusives like Killzone, Knack, and Drive Club are built from the ground up with Ps4 architecture and are failing to deliver technically. Yes Killzone is probably going to be the most visually impressive game at launch so I can live with 30fps because they have stated 1080p/30fps from the beginning but Driveclub and Knack being 30fps is uncalled for in my book. Knack of ALL games should be 1080p/60fps no freaking questions asked. The game looks graphically underwhelming and there isn't much going on in the videos that I've seen as far as on screen action and it still drops below 30fps. I mean this is Cerny's game and being the lead architect for the system should make him most familiar with programming and developing for it in my opinion. What the hell is going on here? I'm generally confused and I know we are 4-5 months out but it still is cause for concern. I don't see these games magically doubling frame rate in that time. Do developers have final deb kits or does that happen in the next couple months?
 
I think at this point I'm just baffled at the technical shortcomings of these games when it come to performance. I can understand games like Watchdogs, Thief, Assassins Creed 4, etc being 30fps because they are cross generation games but exclusives like Killzone, Knack, and Drive Club are built from the ground up with Ps4 architecture and are failing to deliver technically. Yes Killzone is probably going to be the most visually impressive game at launch so I can live with 30fps because they have stated 1080p/30fps from the beginning but Driveclub and Knack being 30fps is uncalled for in my book. Knack of ALL games should be 1080p/60fps no freaking questions asked. The game looks graphically underwhelming and there isn't much going on in the videos that I've seen as far as on screen action and it still drops below 30fps. I mean this is Cerny's game and being the lead architect for the system should make him most familiar with programming and developing for it in my opinion. What the hell is going on here? I'm generally confused and I know we are 4-5 months out but it still is cause for concern. I don't see these games magically doubling frame rate in that time. Do developers have final deb kits or does that happen in the next couple months?
DriveClub is targeting 60. Knack is an odd one, I agree.
 
The thread is about what DF was saying. I just thought at this point so close to launch it is worrisome but yes of course things can change.
It's pretty close to launch (but polishing is done till thelast moment) but maybe the demos are a bit older while development and polishing was still going on strong.
 
Weren't all the rumours that Sony had the good tools and was easy to develop for and MS were behind with tools and is harder to develop for?
Yes but I think the XBO dev kit hardware is more mature. Last I heard the PS4 devkits didn't have the dedicate audio hardware so lots of CPU resources are still going to that, 4.5GB of mixed RAM types, 2 CPU cores reserved for the OS (goal is one), and are missing the compute benefits of the GPU. These demos are still running on that set up.

Info is from the tech presentations done by Guerrilla BTW
 
Not too surprised about Knack. Wouldn't it basically be the first "next gen" game from Japan Studios in ages if not ever?
 
DriveClub is targeting 60. Knack is an odd one, I agree.
Doesn't Knack have a particle + physics system that's probably running on the GPU? Iirc, Sony's working on getting the Cell SPU job system running on the PS4 so that the GPU can run compute jobs while the shaders are idle. As I recall, it didn't seem like that was quite up and running yet, so it's probably what's holding Knack back.
 
Yes but I think the XBO dev kit hardware is more mature. Last I heard the PS4 devkits didn't have the dedicate audio hardware so lots of CPU resources are still going to that, 4.5GB of mixed RAM types, 2 CPU cores reserved for the OS (goal is one), and are missing the compute benefits of the GPU. These demos are still running on that set up.

Info is from the tech presentations done by Guerrilla BTW
But as vgleaks said January Beta kits had already Liverpool APUs inside with 8GB of unified GDDR5.
 
Yes but I think the XBO dev kit hardware is more mature. Last I heard the PS4 devkits didn't have the dedicate audio hardware so lots of CPU resources are still going to that, 4.5GB of mixed RAM types, 2 CPU cores reserved for the OS (goal is one), and are missing the compute benefits of the GPU. These demos are still running on that set up.

Info is from the tech presentations done by Guerrilla BTW

Wasn't Guerrilla talking specifically about the dev kit used for the February presentation?
 
Yes but I think the XBO dev kit hardware is more mature. Last I heard the PS4 devkits didn't have the dedicate audio hardware so lots of CPU resources are still going to that, 4.5GB of mixed RAM types, 2 CPU cores reserved for the OS (goal is one), and are missing the compute benefits of the GPU. These demos are still running on that set up.

Info is from the tech presentations done by Guerrilla BTW
With the new hardware, thinhs should be markedly better.

Typing drunk, open bar at a wedding.
 
Usually the versions demoed are old stable builds as well.

Yes but I think the XBO dev kit hardware is more mature. Last I heard the PS4 devkits didn't have the dedicate audio hardware so lots of CPU resources are still going to that, 4.5GB of mixed RAM types, 2 CPU cores reserved for the OS (goal is one), and are missing the compute benefits of the GPU. These demos are still running on that set up.

Info is from the tech presentations done by Guerrilla BTW

I don't understand why the industry works like this. Shouldn't developers work on the game with the idea that they'll have to demo it at one point and plan for that? People aren't going to say "Oh, that's an old build" when they look at the awful looking DriveClub. They're going to say the game looks like crap, and the game catches a bat reputation.

The dev kit thing is somewhat more understandable since hardware isn't finalized, but why on Earth do developers have to be stuck with ancient devkits until just before launch?

amstradcpc said:
But as vgleaks said January Beta kits had already Liverpool APUs inside with 8GB of unified GDDR5.
Really? That's not what this says. The slides from that one Guerilla presentation say they're still working on that old dev kit from before the 8GB reveal.
 
I am shocked how people are not outraged at Forza ?

Flag ship title at launch for a game with 5th iteration
No day/night
No weather
Crappy Damage
Pre-baked lightning

how the hell is that acceptable?

at least drive club is starting ground up brand new IP and still has all the above.
 
I am shocked how people are not outraged at Forza ?

Flag ship title at launch for a game with 5th iteration
No day/night
No weather
Crappy Damage
Pre-baked lightning

how the hell is that acceptable?

at least drive club is starting ground up brand new IP and still has all the above.
My opinion may be controversial, but I think high framerates are more important than those features for a racing game. Not that it shouldn't be possible to have all those things in a next gen racing game.
 
My opinion may be controversial, but I think high framerates are more important than those features for a racing game. Not that it shouldn't be possible to have all those things in a next gen racing game.

High framerates are more important, but it's still kind of ridiculous that the next mainline Forza is still behind GT6, a PS3 game, in many regards. Aiming for launch has probably resulted in cut corners in FM5.

I suppose complaining about it is redundant since FM6 will be out a couple of years later anyway.
 
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