Support NeoGAF

[nyr88nyg]

CraigV2

 

[FunkMiller]

I didn't realize Microsoft was the developer or publisher of Dirt.

That's your response? No comment on why we've had nothing else from Microsoft gameplay wise that might be better than this?

 

[geordiemp]

None of which you have figures for.

But we do have the figures for what I mentioned, so it all is true.

Not really.

We have clockspeeds, so all those caches will run 20 % faster, 2.23 vs 1.825

Also we know XSX L1 is feeding 14 CU from hotchips and Ps5 L1 is feeding 10 CU shader array by working back from the generic specs..

We know XSX has 5 MB L2, we dont know Ps5 L2.

But let the games and how then run do the talking.

 

[Neo Blaster]

It's the lighting. They use ambient light probes (like 99% of every game out now including next-gen). It's very noticeable because it's night time. Not enough shadow casting light sources. Because of this, it's easy to render very fast.

Sure, Alex!!

 

[Edgelord79]

It's a console game. Looks alright. I'm not going to apply the same high standards to it as I do my PC regardless of market-speak.

Not a programmer but I don't expect 3rd party games to be a huge step up in graphical fidelity for a year or so. Others have stated that the XSX is more difficult to develop for as well so that will take some getting used to.

If it plays well though, most people are going to overlook this. If it doesn't play well, this is going to get amplified.

 

[Orta]

Very underwhelming. Looks like a PS4 game.

 

[sircaw]

It will probably be worse, inferior GPU, slower Cpu and slower memory bandwidth.

Also, the ps5 needs to warm up to get going.

 

[LokusAbriss]

That's your response? No comment on why we've had nothing else from Microsoft gameplay wise that might be better than this?

Well, this is about Dirt 5. It is clearly far worse looking than the big games from either MS and Sony. And it is unjustified to crucify Xbox for a fast and dirty codemasters job. A multiplatform game.

This game runs off consoles that are close to production and sitting at "journalists" homes.

 

[Edgelord79]

Oops double post. Sorry.

 

[skneogaf]

It looks like ass on the xbox series consoles but I'm thinking it will look amazing on PS5?

"I assume that's what I'm supposed to write."

In my actual observation of this, it looks to have amazing lighting which I believe is the most important thing on next generation games.

 

[Lysandros]

CraigV2

Small engine, huh?

 

[FunkMiller]

Well, this is about Dirt 5. It is clearly far worse looking than the big games from either MS and Sony. And it is unjustified to crucify Xbox for a fast and dirty codemasters job. A multiplatform game.

This game runs off consoles that are close to production and sitting at "journalists" homes.

Again, that's a dodge.

Why haven't we seen anything better?

 

[Thirty7ven]

The screen tearing is atrocious and unacceptable.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Very underwhelming. Looks like a PS4 game.

How many PS4 games run at 60 fps at native 4K ? .

 

[Agnostic2020]

How many PS4 games run at 60 fps at native 4K ? .

4k can not hold 60 though . It fluctuates between 30 and 60. Not 50 and 60 but 30 and 60.

Considering the look and performance its a really had showing .

Hopefully its polished up for launch

 

[LokusAbriss]

Again, that's a dodge.

Why haven't we seen anything better?

Because it is still four weeks till launch and the internet forgets fast. Second, there is not much first party from Xbox at launch. Halo doesnt show up, so it will be Gears 5/Tactics, FH4, and so on.

Expect Watch Dogs, AC Valhalla and Cyberpunk to be the consoles show offs. And those marketing campaigns havent even started yet.

 

[geordiemp]

We also don't know how much PS5 will downclock when it reaches its power threshold, so could be even more inferior than the figures we have, maybe exceeding 2tflops. We'll see.

You just stick to your TF, thats fine, just make sure to come back and discuss civily when it does not work out.

 

[GHG]

And here come the merry men! No real need to stick your nosey chops in, but you can't help yourself

And all because I told the people who were clearly lapping up the XSX performance mishaps that they shouldn't expect any better on the PS5. Kindergarten indeed. Just disappointed I got involved, I should know better.

You came into a thread that has nothing to do with the PS5 but then felt the need to bring it up in your post.

Then to make matters worse you complained about people using this game as console war ammo.

So yes, when you are going to be as hypocritical as that, you should know better. Don't attack the reflection you see in the mirror, embrace it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Because it is still four weeks till launch and the internet forgets fast. Second, there is not much first party from Xbox at launch. Halo doesnt show up, so it will be Gears 5/Tactics, FH4, and so on.

Expect Watch Dogs, AC Valhalla and Cyberpunk to be the consoles show offs. And those marketing campaigns havent even started yet.

Do you need a special machine to open the door to your reality, or does it just pop open with the power of your mind?

 

[Team Andromeda]

4k can not hold 60 though . It fluctuates between 30 and 60. Not 50 and 60 but 30 and 60.

Like you say it's not finished and most of it looks super smooth. And it's not like any current PS4 racer can hit 60 fps at 4K. The best it can do is a remaster of previous Wipeout games

 

[Md Ray]

Very underwhelming. Looks like a PS4 game.

Even worse.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Lots of tearing and pop ins in the quality 4K mode, graphics as well look mediocre.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I don't know... This is the PC version.



The graphics underneath still look mediocre, however, IMO the weather/particle effects look far more dense to me which really makes everything look way more immersive and hides the bad textures and modeling really well. The stages without so much weather/fx still look kinda bland imo...

Thing is, I don't see what would be holding back the consoles from looking like this, at least more like this, with the weather. Which makes me think this isn't final code and they and other devs for that matter, are just going through the growing pangs of learning to optomize for next gen console api's or something.

Or perhaps there isn't a difference and I'm seeing things and have missed the vids with the same weather settings and codemasters are just shooting at a low target. Idk.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

It will probably be worse, inferior GPU, slower Cpu and slower memory bandwidth.

Slower memory but more of it compared to series x as its not split

Cpu is pretty identical 3.5 vs 3.6 smt

Gpu yes its stronger but not having to utilize all of its CU and doesnt have a cache scrubbers so its not gonna use to its fullest. And the ssd might be gen 4 but its speed is just as fast as gen3 speed

Series x wont utilize its full 12tf so from a design point of view its its pretty much like a teraflop difference

Sony engineers -> ms engineers
Microsoft software enginners -> sony

 

[blastprocessor]

I mean it looks like a cross gen game.

What's interesting is the Series X inability to run at a stable 4K 60fps.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

BTW, guys, 4K quality mode of DIRT 5 on XSX seems like might not even be 4K at 4K@60fps mode. You don't even need to zoom, You can easily see the aliasing in the car. Could be VRS as well:

All are PNG files, extracted from the WebM files of this video:

 

[Senua]

BTW, guys, 4K quality mode of DIRT 5 on XSX seems like might not even be 4K at 4K@60fps mode. You don't even need to zoom, You can easily see the aliasing in the car. Could be VRS as well:

All are PNG files, extracted from the WebM files of this video:

Maybe there's no AA

 

[Cockles & Whelks]

This next gen deal is getting worse all the time.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Maybe there's no AA

You don't really need AA for native 4K if every pixel is independent. But you might want it for assets that are less than 4K for example.

 

[Riky]

Slower memory but more of it compared to series x as its not split

Cpu is pretty identical 3.5 vs 3.6 smt

Gpu yes its stronger but not having to utilize all of its CU and doesnt have a cache scrubbers so its not gonna use to its fullest. And the ssd might be gen 4 but its speed is just as fast as gen3 speed

Series x wont utilize its full 12tf so from a design point of view its its pretty much like a teraflop difference

Sony engineers -> ms engineers
Microsoft software enginners -> sony

MS have already said developers see memory as one pool. The 10gb is substantially faster.


CPU is faster in XSX, that's a fact.

It's not just stronger it's at least a whole PS4 stronger....that's before PS5 downclocks when it reaches a certain power level.

MS hardware came out with a smaller and more powerful box. Just like they did with X1X v Pro. Back to back.

 

[Senua]

You don't really need AA for native 4K if every pixel is independent. But you might want it for assets that are less than 4K for example.

You definitely need AA at 4k if you want rid of pesky aliasing!

 

[drotahorror]

Looks like they forgot to set their xbox/TV to the same RGB range. Looks washed out, no other Dirt 5 videos have been that way.

 

[GHG]

You definitely need AA at 4k if you want rid of pesky aliasing!

Yeh but it doesn't need to be as aggressive.

2x msaa on a 55" usually does the trick for me.

I'd assume that on smaller screen sizes you can get away with no AA in some cases.

 

[LokusAbriss]

MS have already said developers see memory as one pool. The 10gb is substantially faster.


CPU is faster in XSX, that's a fact.

It's not just stronger it's at least a whole PS4 stronger....that's before PS5 downclocks when it reaches a certain power level.

MS hardware came out with a smaller and more powerful box. Just like they did with X1X v Pro. Back to back.

Maybe we should wait untill we can really compare both consoles with the same game. It is impossible to clearly find an answer performance wise at this moment.

 

[TigerKnee]

Looks great. With that said, so did Forza Horizon 4. I genuinely believe we have plateaued graphically in racing games.

 

[Md Ray]

It will probably be worse, inferior GPU, slower Cpu and slower memory bandwidth.

It will be so worse that you'll need 1600% zoom to even notice it in a side-by-side comparison. Slower CPU? That 0.1 GHz difference isn't something to write home about. Aside from clock speed, there are other things that matter even more for gaming such as timings affecting latency. What about the timings on the GDDR6 memory? CPUs, especially Zen 2 architecture gets massive gains in gaming perf with tighter timings than just increasing its clock speed. It's a known fact. PS5's CPU could even be faster than XSX or at least be on par if Sony has tighter GDDR6 timings while being 0.1 GHz slower due to lower latency.





Those who are concerned about PS5's specs should actually be more concerned about XSS. That's where the actual inferiority exists.

 

[Tmack]

How is it a genuine point though? There are a dozen launch titles coming for the console. Next gen games are coming. MS have said they'll show games this month.

Again I ask - what is the point of saying you need to see next gen games? You know they're releasing. You know you'll see them. We know the console works. It's just complaining for the sake of it. Again - why do you need to see them so urgently right now?

I don`t.

Pottential buyers do.

If you don`t have games footage to show, it`s much harder for the sales deppartment to sell a system.

On the PS5 camp some people are buying bc they are excited about demons souls, others by spider man mm or the plattaformers or by other stuff.

Right now is much easier to justify a ps5 purchase because it`s a much more diverse initial proposition and there`s pretty much something for everyone.

 

[FunkMiller]

This next gen deal is getting worse all the time.

 

[LokusAbriss]

Looks great. With that said, so did Forza Horizon 4. I genuinely believe we have plateaued graphically in racing games.

There is still a lot left to improve. In photo modes or stills, we are pretty close to photo realism, but far from it in gameplay.

I believe, we are still 10 years away from something that will look convincing.

 

[Ðuelist]

Solid FPS, but looks current gen. Nothing special. Looks pretty fun though, last dirt I played was PS3? I think.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The tires don't look like tires att all

The physics are all wrong then.

 

[Reindeer]

That's not what this is about.

It's about the glaring difference between the next gen footage that Sony have put out, compared to what Microsoft now have.

I struggle to think of any situation where you would plausibly counter Demon's Souls, Ratchet and Clank and Miles Morales with this footage of DIRT.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

If they have game footage that actually shows off the power of their console... where the hell is it?

You starting to sound like a broken record now. We all know Microsoft hasn't got any first party games coming out to show the power of the console and using third party games to sh*it on Xbox obviously shows what people's real intentions are in this regard.

 

[Hendrick's]

Cool, what's next?

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

MS have already said developers see memory as one pool. The 10gb is substantially faster.


CPU is faster in XSX, that's a fact.

It's not just stronger it's at least a whole PS4 stronger....that's before PS5 downclocks when it reaches a certain power level.

MS hardware came out with a smaller and more powerful box. Just like they did with X1X v Pro. Back to back.

Thats its its just 10gig of fast ram and trying to cram everythink into that fast ram is just as bad as xbox one or ps3 anythink past that the whole lot will be slower then ps5

3.5 vs 3.6 is only 0.1 difference big whoop even at 3.8 the smt is still faster yes the cpu downclocks but because of that and with the cache scrubbers as all the cu has work to do ps5 is able achieve maintain its full 10.20tf where series x wont

 

[Senua]

 

[Md Ray]

Thats its its just 10gig of fast ram and trying to cram everythink into that fast ram is just as bad as xbox one or ps3 anythink past that the whole lot will be slower then ps5

3.5 vs 3.6 is only 0.1 difference big whoop even at 3.8 the smt is still faster yes the cpu downclocks but because of that and with the cache scrubbers as all the cu has work to do ps5 is able achieve maintain its full 10.20tf where series x wont

In an interview with DF, Codemasters Technical Director said they're using SMT on XSX. So it's definitely 3.6 GHz in this game and will be in most games going forward.

 

[Lysandros]

MS have already said developers see memory as one pool. The 10gb is substantially faster.


CPU is faster in XSX, that's a fact.

It's not just stronger it's at least a whole PS4 stronger....that's before PS5 downclocks when it reaches a certain power level.

MS hardware came out with a smaller and more powerful box. Just like they did with X1X v Pro. Back to back.

As a side note, we know that XSX reserves one tenth of a core from its CPU for I/O processing. One tenth of a core while using SMT is 360 Mhz, divided per 8 cores gives us 45 Mhz. Thus XSX's CPU is only 55 Mhz faster than PS5's CPU at max clocks with SMT, 3500 to 3555 Mhz. It's only around 1.5% faster. This without considering possible architectural differences between them.

 

[Riky]

Digital Foundry just debunked all the 40fps nonsense and sub 1080p rubbish.

Two Dynamic 4k modes one with higher settings and shadows., mostly at 4k but can go towards 1800p on occasion.

120hz mode is 1440p double temporal and down to a minimum of 1080p at race start when full grid.

They seem to stick pretty close to 60 or 120fps and it's not the final build.

 

[onQ123]

BTW, guys, 4K quality mode of DIRT 5 on XSX seems like might not even be 4K at 4K@60fps mode. You don't even need to zoom, You can easily see the aliasing in the car. Could be VRS as well:

All are PNG files, extracted from the WebM files of this video:

I'll leave this here

They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU TFLOPS to claim a 18% advantage for Xbox SX over PS5?

If Microsoft don't use just the TFLOPS to compare Xbox Series X GPU to the Xbox One & Xbox One X why is everyone else using it to compare it to PS5 ?

They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU...

www.neogaf.com

 

[FunkMiller]

You starting to sound like a broken record now. We all know Microsoft hasn't got any first party games coming out to show the power of the console and using third party games to sh*it on Xbox obviously shows what people's real intentions are in this regard.

What's first party got to do with it? I just want to see something that actually shows me the power of the damn thing before I buy one. So far, nothing has impressed me. Nothing.