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[guidestone]

because in case of science I can say that emergence is human inability to predict, rather than it being unpredictable.

Isn't that one and the same thing? We can't predict reality because we didn't make it = things in it are unpredicatable exactly because of that. We can't analyze it from the point of view of some other, potentially vastly superior species lol.

Following your line of thought in the previous paragraph, every game ever made has emergent mechanics in it, because for the humans who made it it's completely natural that they didn't manage to map out every possible interaction. Not just the ones labeled with a cool-sounding buzzword.

 

[Sentenza]

Yes, it does. It's just that you aren't willing to see it.

No, it doesn't.
And let me suggest you something to watch: BBC The Secret Life Of Chaos*.

It deals exactly with this widely spread and yet deeply false belief that if we know the starting elements then we can predict the outcome.
In many cases, no, we can't. And it doesn't even take random values in the equation. There's a whole branch of mathematics dedicate to this specific issue.

*the documentary also has a part about Euphoria procedurally generated animations, which is quite interesting for anyone into videogames.

 

[robin2]

A key element for my appreciation of this game, is going to be be the level design (not in terms of aesthetic, but in terms of: layout, contents and size). I'd like to see some concrete info about this aspect.
Deus Ex 2 was also designed by Harvey Smith and its levels were so small...

 

[Lancehead]

Following your line of thought in the previous paragraph, every game ever made has emergent mechanics in it, because for the humans who made it it's completely natural that they didn't manage to map out every possible interaction. Not just the ones labeled with a cool-sounding buzzword.

Why do we use any label anyway? There are no true open world games, yet we use the label not because it sounds cool (which it kinda does anyway)but for better identification. If 'emergent gameplay' is used to distinguish and identfy games like Deus Ex from your ordinary linear games, then I've no real qualm. Yeah, it might get the treatment of a buzzword, but that doesn't mean the concept has no worth.

 

[subversus]

A key element for my appreciation of this game, is going to be be the level design (not in terms of aesthetic, but in terms of: layout, contents and size). I'd like to see some concrete info about this aspect.
Deus Ex 2 was also designed by Harvey Smith and its levels were so small...

As far as I know they are not planning to port the game to the original XBOX.

 

[robin2]

As far as I know they are not planning to port the game to the original XBOX.

lol, well.. I hope so.

 

[benny_a]

As far as I know they are not planning to port the game to the original XBOX.

The PS2 version of the original Deus Ex retained the same levels, but you had loading screens. ;-)

I of course hope that isn't the case as I find them horrible (as in for example Portal 2) but rather they'd use a streaming engine that would work without loading.

 

[TheOddOne]

Trailer!

 

[Hanmik]

Trailer!

hmmm. doesn´t start,.,,

now it did.. and it is the Bethesda teaser... TOMORROW::

 

[TheOddOne]

hmmm. doesn´t start,.,,

Takes a while, also it's the thing Bethesda has been teasing.

 

[Hanmik]

youtube..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E1HlYTukh9A#

 

[subversus]

youtube

 

[Labadal]

A really well made trailer, now let's hope the game is great.

 

[subversus]

10 000 coins, huh?

 

[robin2]

There is also a new video interview from Game Informer, RPS did an entry for it too.

 

[Radogol]

Deus Ex 2 was also designed by Harvey Smith and its levels were so small...

A little known fact is that Harvey was the lead designer of the original Deus Ex as well, so...

 

[subversus]

There is also a new video interview from Game Informer, RPS did an entry for it too.

oh, I missed them both.

 

[subversus]

Game Informer, part 1

Game Informer, part 2

 

[Data West]

I don't really understand the point of a video interview with no footage. Other than Youtube being a popular site.

 

[subversus]

I don't really understand the point of a video interview with no footage. Other than Youtube being a popular site.

when an interview is transcribed some parts may be heavily edited for the sake of brevity. Video interviews allow to hear all bits of information as they are. It's like saying that any written interview is pointless without screenshots. I think video interviews being a part of marketing campaign are aimed at an attentive, patient part of the audience or those who are very interested in a project and are able to spread the word afterwards.

 

[mckmas8808]

youtube..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E1HlYTukh9A#

So this is CG right?

 

[subversus]

So this is CG right?

right

 

[Krauser Kat]

yeah the game is much more cartoony looking.

 

[cackhyena]

Yawn. It's a visual medium, show the thing in action.

 

[subversus]

damn, Harvey's leg is fucking killing me!

 

[mckmas8808]

yeah the game is much more cartoony looking.

Oh no! I liked the serious look that the video above had.

 

[subversus]

Oh no! I liked the serious look that the video above had.

there is a gameplay video in OP. the first one.

 

[cackhyena]

There isn't one second of actual gameplay in that but okay.

 

[subversus]

There isn't one second of actual gameplay in that but okay.

there is but okay, people can see it themselves.

 

[cackhyena]

A camera moving through the game environment isn't gameplay, guy.

 

[subversus]

so, for those who didn't want to watch:

-you will be able to kill anyone in the game.
-you will be able to spare your victims if you really want to for some reason
-the game will focus on mechanics, i.e. it's still primarily "a game", you will be able to fuck around a lot.
-there will be a hub ("homebase")
-you will be notified when your actions add more "chaos" in the world, but there won't be any meter like in Mass Effect games. They want to avoid binary morality system.
-your actions will result in different endings and different attitude towards you. Like some people may betray you later in the game if they consider you a sick fuck
-morality system won't reward you with loot of any kind. Like if you sow the chaos everywhere nobody will give you "boots of evil" with +4 to strength.

 

[subversus]

A camera moving through the game environment isn't gameplay, guy.

A player in every FPS is a camera moving through the game environment, dude.

 

[cackhyena]

Ugh, you're serious. Anyway, looking forward to the game.

 

[Deadbeat]

so, for those who didn't want to watch:

-you will be able to kill anyone in the game.
-you will be able to spare your victims if you really want to for some reason
-the game will focus on mechanics, i.e. it's still primarily "a game", you will be able to fuck around a lot.
-there will be a hub ("homebase")
-you will be notified when your actions add more "chaos" in the world, but there won't be any meter like in Mass Effect games. They want to avoid binary morality system.
-your actions will result in different endings and different attitude towards. Like some people may betray you later in the game if they consider you a sick fuck
-morality system won't reward you with loot of any kind. Like if you sow the chaos everywhere nobody will give you "boots of evil" with +4 to strength.

So while Dark Messiah was Arx Fatalis 1.5, this will be Arx Fatalis 2? Because id really like that.

 

[robin2]

I want to play this game so bad. The absence of a release date worries me.

 

[SafeinSound]

I want to play this game so bad. The absence of a release date worries me.

I was worried up until a week or two ago. They have finally started rolling out some info and I'm sure E3 will be big for this game. Haven't lost hope yet.

 

[zkylon]

so, for those who didn't want to watch:

-you will be able to kill anyone in the game.
-you will be able to spare your victims if you really want to for some reason
-the game will focus on mechanics, i.e. it's still primarily "a game", you will be able to fuck around a lot.
-there will be a hub ("homebase")
-you will be notified when your actions add more "chaos" in the world, but there won't be any meter like in Mass Effect games. They want to avoid binary morality system.
-your actions will result in different endings and different attitude towards you. Like some people may betray you later in the game if they consider you a sick fuck
-morality system won't reward you with loot of any kind. Like if you sow the chaos everywhere nobody will give you "boots of evil" with +4 to strength.

So good! Harvey Smith, sir, you are atoning for your sins and I love it!

 

[Deadbeat]

So good! Harvey Smith, sir, you are atoning for your sins and I love it!

Why are you giving him credit? Arkane Studios is the talent here. We can just be thankful that their skill is far greater than the boat anchor that Harvey Smith adds to any new project.

 

[subversus]

in related news Arx Libertatis was released:

After over a year of work we are proud to announce the first release of Arx Libertatis. While some minor graphical glitches remain, the game is fully playable on both Windows and Linux as well as other platforms. There are packages available for Windows and Linux. On other systems you may still be able to run the game by compiling the source code yourself.

Besides porting the game to SDL, OpenGL, OpenAL and the amd64 architecture while maintaining native Direct X backends, we fixed some performance issues with newer operating systems, added more configuration options and improved the interface scaling for widescreen resolutions. See the wiki for the full changelog.

Why are you giving him credit? Arkane Studios is the talent here. We can just be thankful that their skill far greater than the boat anchor that Harvey Smith adds to any new project.

I guess the fact that he was a lead designer on Deus Ex and worked on System Shock isn't enough to consider him an aspiring video game designer.

 

[Deadbeat]

I guess the fact that he was a lead designer on Deus Ex and worked on System Shock isn't enough to consider him an aspiring video game designer.

So you leave out Deus Ex: IW and Blacksite: Area 51. If thats how you want to argue about this game's development then so be it.

 

[mckmas8808]

there is a gameplay video in OP. the first one.

Oh thanks. Wow looks so good. Why does it sorta feel like Bioshock Infinite?

 

[subversus]

So you leave out his part in Deus Ex: IW and Blacksite: Area 51. If thats how you want to argue about this game's development then so be it.

IW was a mistake (as he admitted himself) and BlackSite was an alpha pushed out by a dying publisher. Yeah, I like arguing about games and being informed at the same time.

 

[Deadbeat]

IW was a mistake (as he admitted himself) and BlackSite was an alpha pushed out by a dying publisher. Yeah, I like arguing about games and being informed at the same time.

So that means if this game turns out great I should give a ton of credit to him for the development of this game? Because Arkane is following a common gameplay style all their games have had (if you played Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah). This is just expanding on those from what we have seen. I dont see why he should be getting lots of credit when the studio's direction has always been pointed in such a way.

 

[zkylon]

Harvey obviously don't deserve all the credit for the game, but after how good all of this sounds, I feel really good about him brushing off the mistakes he made in the past.

Besides, I kinda liked Blacksite

 

[subversus]

So that means if this game turns out great I should give a ton of credit to him for the development of this game? Because Arkane is following a common gameplay style all their games have had (if you played Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah). This is just expanding on those from what we have seen. I dont see why he should be getting lots of credit when the studio's direction has always been pointed in such a way.

He deserves a credit because he is a lead co-designer, works on this game full time and his input on this project is significant. it's as simple as that.

 

[Danne-Danger]

Besides, I kinda liked Blacksite

How?

 

[Deadbeat]

He deserves a credit because he is a lead co-designer, works on this game full time and his input on this project is significant. it's as simple as that.

Im not saying that. Its like people are saying hes the sole reason the game is being developed such a way when its been a common pattern in Arkane's development history. I understand you dont want your idol or whatever to be knocked down a few pegs so ill just leave it alone.

Sounds like you're guarding a little too carefully your own idols. Nobody ever said Arkane role's in this project is second to Harvey Smith's. I just focused on him because I'm a fan of his work, while I'm not a fan of Arkane's work (I have not played Ark Fatalis or Dark Messiah).

Then you wouldnt be proclaiming all of the ideas the game is putting forward as something that Arkane hasnt done before.

Like I said, ill leave it alone. Lets just hope the game ends up great.

 

[zkylon]

How?

Not really sure since I haven't played it in a long while, but I remember thinking to my self "hey, this isn't half bad" and liking some enemy design stuff and some backstory stuff. I also remember the game giving me motion sickness.

Im not saying that. Its like people are saying hes the sole reason the game is being developed such a way when its been a common pattern in Arkane's development history. I understand you dont want your idol or whatever to be knocked down a few pegs so ill just leave it at that.

Sounds like you're guarding a little too carefully your own idols. Nobody ever said Arkane role's in this project is second to Harvey Smith's. I just focused on him because I'm a fan of his work, while I'm not a fan of Arkane's work (I have not played Ark Fatalis or Dark Messiah).

 

[subversus]

Im not saying that. Its like people are saying hes the sole reason the game is being developed such a way when its been a common pattern in Arkane's development history. I understand you dont want your idol or whatever to be knocked down a few pegs so ill just leave it alone.

you are so salty for some reason. Why do you think that Harvey is my idol? Where did I try to lessen Arkane's role? Tell us how you feel.

 

[zkylon]

Then you wouldnt be proclaiming all of the ideas the game is putting forward as something that Arkane hasnt done before.

Like I said, ill leave it alone. Lets just hope the game ends up great.

As I said, I haven't played anything made by Arkane, so I focused on Harvey Smith's role, but I never meant or mean to dismiss, even by omission, Arkane's role in the project (and I still think I didn't).

So let's leave it alone and hope for Dishonored to rock our socks off...