PDP didn't make a "Hitler did nothing wrong" joke however. He made a shitty joke referencing another person that is a actual known anti-semite. A bad joke that was terribly handled, but still.
But that's the whole issue.
A WWE wrestler can be a total heel in the ring, but a nice guy when not doing their show. Similarly, a comedian usually gets the benefit of the doubt for the jokes they crack on stage, yet what they say while not doing a routine can be held against them.
Again, Youtubers evoke the appearance of being a regular person who just shares / plays games in front of the camera. They interact with their audience, there is no kind of unspoken understanding that everything they say and do is part of a routine.
They vlog, they do draw-my-life stuff, they talk about current events. Clearly the idea is to evoke the impression "this is me, i am a geniune person", which has a big appeal to the young audience. The target is always to have the audience think you're their 'friend'. (or in this case, "bro"). They look up to them. "Regular guy, just like me, makes big bucks by playing video games." - did you miss the defense force for the guy who LITERALLY ADVERTISED HIS OWN CSGO CASINO TO MINORS.
In that setting, i simply don't feel it's appropriate to lightheartedly use these kinds of phrases and jokes.
haven't followed MacFarlane or any accusations about him so i can't comment on that. But yes, if Peter Griffin says "i need a jew" because he has money problems it's obvious satire because he's portrayed as an obvious asshole, dumbass.
When MacFarlane says "Whoa, where did all my money go, i better fetch me a jew", he deserves to be scrutinized.
I feel the 'contract' (of what constitutes satire, what's a joke) between the viewer and the joke-maker is much more clear in a show about fictional characters
The vast majority of his non-gaming content is comedic in nature, with him constantly doing different persons and different voices when he wants to make a joke where he isn't acting like himself. It's not like he all of the sudden started doing comedic bits.
I do believe there's a big difference between "mature" content and "irony" and straightforward using hatespeech for the lulz.
There's plenty 'mature' content you can produce without crossing certain lines.
Like ... take Maddox for example. He makes rather mature / aggressive / sometimes borderline offensive videos. What constitues his 'persona' is clear to the audience. I don't mind that whatsoever. Those are clever, those are (often times, not always) funny.
Maddox is life maddox is love
Sadly he lost a lot of reach lately, in part because of a really stupid hate campaign against him, knowing about it makes me sick.
maddox is a brilliant rolemodel for...everybody lol
cool smart guy
Edit: " I do believe there's a big difference between "mature" content and "irony" and straightforward using hatespeech for the lulz."
Yeah i disagree that PDP did the latter if you implied that he did
Presented in proper context though. He didn't know why the Jesus dude got banned after his Fiver video, because he didn't make the Jesus dude say anything actually offensive on his original video. He then checks the recent content from the Jesus dude in which he finds the actual reason why the Jesus dude was banned, which was that video, comissioned by someone else.
The dude's whole schtick has been making Nazi and anti-Semitic "jokes" repeatedly. That combined with his pro-gamergate stance (as far as I know), commenting about being treated unfairly for being white, and "anti-PC culture" attitude yet gets absurdly offended at any criticism thrown his way makes him essentialy an alt-right gateway drug, regardless of whether he believes that shit or not. He makes it easy for people to spew hate speech, and then claim it was just a joke and rail against "overreaction" culture to steer to the conversation away. He has a massive reach and appeals to young kids, so while he may not have an intrinsic responsibility with what he says, he needs to understand the effect he has and cut that shit out if he doesn't want people to understandably be labeling him as a white supremacist.
The dude's whole schtick has been making Nazi and anti-Semitic "jokes" repeatedly. That combined with his pro-gamergate stance (as far as I know), commenting about being treated unfairly for being white, and "anti-PC culture" attitude yet gets absurdly offended at any criticism thrown his way makes him essentialy an alt-right gateway drug, regardless of whether he believes that shit or not. He makes it easy for people to spew hate speech, and then claim it was just a joke and rail against "overreaction" culture to steer to the conversation away. He has a massive reach and appeals to young kids, so while he may not have an intrinsic responsibility with what he says, he needs to understand the effect he has and cut that shit out if he doesn't want people to understandably be labeling him as a white supremacist.
The dude's whole schtick has been making Nazi and anti-Semitic "jokes" repeatedly. That combined with his pro-gamergate stance (as far as I know), commenting about being treated unfairly for being white, and "anti-PC culture" attitude yet gets absurdly offended at any criticism thrown his way makes him essentialy an alt-right gateway drug, regardless of whether he believes that shit or not. He makes it easy for people to spew hate speech, and then claim it was just a joke and rail against "overreaction" culture to steer to the conversation away. He has a massive reach and appeals to young kids, so while he may not have an intrinsic responsibility with what he says, he needs to understand the effect he has and cut that shit out if he doesn't want people to understandably be labeling him as a white supremacist.
The only time he said he being treated unfairly for being white was in the most sarcastic voice imaginable. Like you literally couldn't hear that segment and not see that he wasn't serious about that statement. And where did you get that he's pro-gamergate?
About what I expected as a response video from him. Some of the points he made are true (misrepresentation and all), but he is wrong assuming that jokes like that don't normalize hatred. They do.
Dunno if big, but Easy Allies (ex Gametrailers) are the nicest gaming personalities on youtube I can think of. No controversies, no edge, just pure gaming joy and fun. Maybe that's why there are not as popular as Grumps or the generic angry/edgy/loud youtube gamers, and I prefer them this way.
The only time he said he being treated unfairly for being white was in the most sarcastic voice imaginable. Like you literally couldn't hear that segment and not see that he wasn't serious about that statement. And where did you get that he's pro-gamergate?
It's sarcastic in the same way that his nazi jokes are, like who cares? A bunch of people are still gonna be nodding along going "yeah, Youtube's not promoting you as much because you're white". And it's not just one video, at a certain point when an increasing amount of your "jokes" (I use this lightly because as others have pointed out, there's not really any satirical point of these beyond being offensive) are about antisemitism, nazis, and being white, it starts to feel less and less like a joke, however much in poor taste, and more like an agenda.
And he followed christina hoff sommers on twitter shortly after she released a video defending gamergaters. It also totally jives with his stance of "sticking it to PC culture", attacking the media for being too critical, and general racial and sexist humor which gamergaters/alt-right love. Maybe not an outright embracing of gamergate, but I don't think it's tough to guess what side he falls on.
He acknowledges the fact that he went too far. He also apologizes and says that he learned his lesson when it comes to taking things too far. He doesn't really try to justify his actions, but he tries to explain what his intentions were, even if his approach was wrong. It is true though there has been a lot taken out of context. He even gets a little emotional at the end.
I'm actually okay with this. There could have been less rant and "everyone is against me and tries to discredit me", but all in all, I think this was a good video.
About what I expected as a response video from him. Some of the points he made are true (misrepresentation and all), but he is wrong assuming that jokes like that don't normalize hatred. They do.
The entirety of famous Youtubers are supporting PDP because they know everything he made it's a fuckin' joke. Normalizing "a word" is the most stupidest reason I have ever listened ever, did he directed the "Kill the Jews" message to the Jews?, NO, the message went to Keemstar because he was the butt of the joke, because Keemstar has been a racist and anti-semite, AND KEEM ADMITS THE JOKE TOO.
This is the problem, you are blowing out of proportion a joke that was edgy because the media told you so and you didn't get the context of the situation it.
And then theres some of the GAF members just want to hate on PDP, it's simple, they say that they're on the "I'm attacking normalization" but we all know that behind that bullshit you're here to see him burn.
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Let's get back to the WSJ video and how they just re-uploaded it for the third time with a lot of edits just to make it seem that they did nothing wrong. I like how those snakes are just trying to make it seem like they are on the right but they're still getting blasted by the Twitter and Youtube communities. Kudos to the YT and TW communities.
I agree with some of his reasoning/explanations/rant, but how is using his app to make nazi imagery different than joking about Nazis himself?
In general though I am on PewDiePie's side. It's a litle bit of how idubbbz approaches this.
I think his response video is good and in the right and offcourse he blames the media. Those who have been watching him lately know that the media has not been kind to him during the last couple of years and it is kind of obvious. And I can't blame him for, you know, caring about how the media portrays you. The way they reported on this story is kind of obvious in my opinion. The reason the WSJ story is there in the first place is good (stating there are problematic jokes in his content), but the way they do/did their "journalism" is piss poor in my opinion.
The only thing I disagree with in this vid is that jokes cannot normalize racism, because I believe this can definitely happen (see internet trolls).
He admits his jokes went too far and says he will do his best to do better. Furthermore, he understands the decision made by Disney and YouTube regarding their response.
I agree with some of his reasoning/explanations/rant, but how is using his app to make nazi imagery different than joking about Nazis himself?
In general though I am on PewDiePie's side. It's a litle bit of how idubbbz approaches this.
It wasn't him making Nazi imagery, it was others. He saw this and said "don't do this" in one of his videos.
At least that's how I understood it. I don't remember the video all too well.
I agree with some of his reasoning/explanations/rant, but how is using his app to make nazi imagery different than joking about Nazis himself?
In general though I am on PewDiePie's side. It's a litle bit of how idubbbz approaches this.
I think he was reviewing user made content from his app (that people tweeted to him). Someone tweeted him a swastika that they made and he said "don't do that". He didn't make a swastika.
To the response video:
Rambling against "the media" is of course stupid, but in this case and all the hate considered-okay...peanuts.. hes not a pr person...but go on:
What I think is great:
I do strongly believe that you joke about anything but i also belive there is a right way and a "not the best way" to joke about way
Further he talks about how he is still learing how hard good comedy is-which is also great.
And then he talks about his tabloid mispresentation by the wallstreetjournal where he is 100% right.
I think he clearly underestimates the influence his videos have. He doesn't understand how him saying stuff like that can normalize it or influence people watching it.
One might argue that he doesn't see himself as important enough to be careful with that stuff, but that would be nothing more than a guess.
I think he was reviewing user made content from his app (that people tweeted to him). Someone tweeted him a swastika that they made and he said "don't do that". He didn't make a swastika.
I understand, but he's telling people not to do what he was doing basically. There's no real difference between a swastika and 'spreading' the "death to all jews" message if it all fits in the context of a joke.
I understand, but he's telling people not to do what he was doing basically. There's no real difference between a swastika and 'spreading' the "death to all jews" message if it all fits in the context of a joke.
He was drawing Swastikas on a tshirt in one of his blogs. He had a bet on with two of his threads about wearing the same tshirt as each other when blogging.
Reposting the image I posted yesterday, because apparently some people didn't catch it.
South Park is satire. For the most part, Trey and Matt have a definite point to make and manage to fully explore all sides of a given issue within each episode. Their episodes have purpose. They're not simply regurgitating memes and tossing out racist jokes in an attempt to be edgy. That's why they can get away with their content and why PDP gets harsh criticism.
And, in response to PDP's response video... he thinks the media is afraid of him?
Sorry, guy. But if you want to consider yourself to be a celebrity, you have to learn to deal with the media and their criticism of you. That's just how it goes. Actions have consequences.
You'll notice that South Park still runs on a major network and has no problem getting ad placement for new episodes, as well as reruns throughout the day.
So ask yourself: what's different about that, and this?
This is the cultural clash in comedy right now in a nutshell. It isn't about "political correctness" vs. "clean comedy" or something.
Actual clean comics like Dan Nainan are 10x creepier than the most descriptive Louis C.K. pedophilia joke.
When your entire "joke" is simply saying something that you know makes people feel bad, with no satirical backbone, no actual joke, no purpose, what you're doing is functionally no different from saying the same thing like you mean it. And as Chan culture has so clearly taught us in the last few years, all you really do is provide cover for actual straight-up ideologues to say the exact same things, except they fucking mean it.
If the full context of your joke is "Death To Jews" because wow, you're not supposed to say that, you've simply done the verbal equivalent of taking your adult dick out on an elementary school bus. Oh, how shocking! There should not be a grown man taking his dick out in front of children! Ha ha ha ha! I can't believe he "went there"! Where are the SJWs now? Can you handle my political incorrectness? L M A O
Now, frankly, I don't give the slightest shit if you want to engage in this kind of vapidity. That's fine, it's a hell of a lot easier than saying something insightful or witty. What I resent is the idea that you want to be taken as seriously as the decent comedians and satirists of the world for doing the verbal equivalent of eating your own feces. No. If your joke is to say something that gets people mad, or reminds them of terrible things, or makes them feel less than human, they're probably going to get mad at you, not want to give you their money, not want to sponsor you, maybe even crack you one across the jaw.
Play in that end of the pool! You aren't entitled to respect for it.
It kind of worries me that the rhetoric used by many people (including other big-name YouTubers) to defend him is relatively similar to that used by republicans and the Trump administration to discredit anyone they don't like. I think it's going to legitimize those tactics for many young people, which is frightening.
OMG, I almost made a thread about this, lol. I only barely care about the entire affair, which hit me as I started typing the thread up. I'd have to do all sorts of research, post all sorts of links, etc. So thank God this thread exists
Anyway, PewDiePie isn't my cup of tea, but I just recently learned of all this drama and watched his "response" video (was checking out the "trending" YouTube videos).
I'm inclined to believe him (and "side" with him), and I've watched several explanations of the situation. His apology seemed very sincere and it seemed like the media was out to get him. He clearly was making a joke (albeit inappropriate, as he confessed), but it was taken completely out of context in an effort to condemn him.
Him being removed from Disney makes sense from a responsibility stand point, though. Can't really work with that type of brand with this kind of "humor" in your repertoire.
Jack's got a good, nuanced head on his shoulders about this. Actually weighs things up in terms of actions and consequences, rather than falling back on an abstract. He even touches on the whole point of distinguishing types of humour, and how they may reinforce certain ideas whether intended to or not.
Thank fuck, at least one of the big ones has some balls, most of this video is on point, regarding both Pewdiepie and the WSJ reporting. I might have expressed dislike about how Sean changed his tone of videos over time, but this one earned a ton of respect back from me. I honestly didn't expect this.
Also, of course the only sane guy on top of YT is a gaffer
edit: Aaaand I'll take it back, of course he went back on it and now falls in line.
Thank fuck, at least one of the big ones has some balls, most of this video is on point, regarding both Pewdiepie and the WSJ reporting. I might have expressed dislike about how Sean changed his tone of videos over time, but this one earned a ton of respect back from me. I honestly didn't expect this.
Also, of course the only sane guy on top of YT is a gaffer
Disney has the right to cut ties with him over this if they choose, that's perfectly sound.
Most people's issue with this has been with the WSJ and a host of other news outlets desperately trying to paint PewDiePie as a "racist", "anti-semite", "bigot", etc. for making an edgy joke.
Edgy jokes don't make someone a "nazi", they don't make someone go out and commit hate crimes, and people saying "You're not allowed to say that" will only make people want to say it more, especially with young people.
The young people that watch PewDiePie's videos watched the videos, understood that they where jokes, and moved on. Then comes along the WSJ who "researched" the same videos that these young people already watched and have unlimited access to. These news outlets then attempt to tell these 53 million+ young people that they know better than them and that PewDiePie wasn't simply making jokes, but rather attempting to somehow indoctrinate them in Nazi ideology.
Ironically, this will, and already has, backfired on these news outlets. These young people aren't idiots. They know good and well that PewDiePie isn't any of the awful labels these news outlets have been giving him. They aren't going to trust these outlets anymore. They're going to be critical every time one of them says that someone is a Nazi. And they are, most definitely, going to make more edgy jokes.
The side that attempts to become authoritarian in what jokes people are allowed to make or what people are allowed to find funny, will always end up losing younger generations.
