• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

DMC3:SE or Ninja Gaiden Black?

DMC3:SE , though without an xbox I only played the Sigma versions so I guess my opinion only counts as a partial opinion? Enemy types feel better in NG and more challenging, but the combo system in DMC3 really had a lasting effect on the genre and feels funner.. Would agree that in DMC5 they need to have a larger set of combat music, because it gets old..................
God Hand beats them both
 

Gertso

Neo Member
NGB

I remember playing DMC after beating Black and was totally shocked at the lack of a block button. I was all seinfeldnothanks.gif at it

DMC is the stronger series though, as perfect as NG/NGB were...they can't carry the sins of the rest of the series. DMC only has DMC2 to drag around.

That's what Royal Guard was for.
 
Sigma is not apart of the equation son, its like having a blemish on the mona lisa. Those little balance changes (AND THOSE BIG MISSION CHANGES) damage the foundation of what makes Black so godlike.
 
Did I fall into a time warp or something? This grudge match will never die. Both are two of the best games ever made and still trump modern action games today. Who ever wins, we win. I vote DMC3: SE though.
 
I need to spend more time with NG. I've only played Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus 1 on Vita for about 2 hours, but a lot of it was abusing the jump dash decapitate move which feels to effective compared to other moves. It gets better though right?
 

Tain

Member
I think DMC3 is one of the weaker entries in the series, so this easily goes to Ninja Gaiden Black.
 

Vire

Member
2YHouTS.png
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
I need to spend more time with NG. I've only played Ninja Gaiden Sigma Plus 1 on Vita for about 2 hours, but a lot of it was abusing the jump dash decapitate move which feels to effective compared to other moves. It gets better though right?

It does.

There are eventually enemies that can specifically counter the move. The Flying Swallow does stay useful forever, though.
 

Endo Punk

Member

Hate this character design of Dante. DMC1 still best Dante. and I actually prefer DMC1 to DMC3.
Prefer it to NGB as well

NGB

I remember playing DMC after beating Black and was totally shocked at the lack of a block button. I was all seinfeldnothanks.gif at it

DMC is the stronger series though, as perfect as NG/NGB were...they can't carry the sins of the rest of the series. DMC only has DMC2 to drag around.

Royal Guard son. And DMC has both DMC2 and DmC to drag it down wether you like to admit it or not.
 

Synth

Member
They're both great, but this easily goes to Ninja Gaiden Black for me.

DMC has tons of freedom in its combat system, but imo an action game is defined by the enemies you fight as much as the character you control... and NGB cleans up in this area.
 

Astral Dog

Member
DMC 3, easily
I could never play Ninja Gaiden Black :(
But really, both action games seem to be among the very best on their genre, and tried different things, why compare them? especially with the "this game is not close to the other" responses
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
You can block with Royal Guard. You just shouldn't.

Can you? As far as I'm aware, if you use Royal Guard as a block you still eat an attack/take damage as if you didn't "block" at all. Whereas a parry will mitigate damage and stock a "charge" for "Just Release"/increased damage attack.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Can you? As far as I'm aware, if you use Royal Guard as a block you still eat an attack/take damage as if you didn't "block" at all. Whereas a parry will mitigate damage and stock a "charge" for "Just Release"/increased damage attack.

You do take reduced damage with a Royal Block. When you take chip damage in Street Fighter from a fireball, are you not still blocking the fireball? You take reduced damage.

Granted, it's not meant to be used as a traditional block, and is definitely intended to be a parry mechanic, but you technically can still block with it.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
That's still a block. When you take chip damage in Street Fighter from a fireball, are you not still blocking the fireball?

Chip damage is the key-word here. Royal Guard doesn't lower the damage if you use it as a block, AFAIK. You still eat the attack damage as if you didn't Royal Guard/block it. If it blocked some damage/"chip"ped, I'd consider it a block like Street Fighters.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Chip damage is the key-word here. Royal Guard doesn't lower the damage if you use it as a block, AFAIK. You still eat the attack damage as if you didn't Royal Guard/block it. If it blocked some damage/"chip"ped, I'd consider it a block like Street Fighters.

Sorry, I didn't see that part of your post and I edited too late. You do take reduced damage with a Royal Block against regular attacks, but there are a great number of armor breaking attacks in the game where you just take full damage.

It's more intended as a training tool against the beginning grunts. If you mistime your parry, you can still get a block and take reduced damage.
 
NGB, and not even close.

DMC3 had a huge amount of problems. Most importantly, the game was a joke to go through. I forced myself to not use potion or reset levels if I didn't do well enough for my liking. On my first playthrough.

And then in DMD it turns tedious. Meh game. DMC1 is leagues better than it.
 
These are two of the greatest action games of all time. The debates over this matchup were legendary and we truly were in the golden age back then. My vote goes to NGB, it is just the complete package. It has so much content and enemy variety. It's really close though.
 

Veelk

Banned
Both are awesome, beloved action games that play to different strengths.

DMC1 has possibly the best level design and atmosphere of any action game even today. I remember the boss' and environments to this day. The organic, heart-like beating trees in the Cathedral. The flying ghost ship. The maze where you get Ifrit. Phantom, Griffith. And Mundus, of course.

DMC3 introduced freestyle combat as we know it today. Make your arguments about which does it best, DMC3, DMC4, or Bayonetta, but the latter two wouldn't be here without 3. Plus DMC3 is notable for being the first and thus far only action game with a good story for those who care about that sort of thing.

Ninja Gaiden is a different kind of beast, with it's rhythmic, tactical combat. It's ball crushing difficulty only entices the player more. It's more memorable as an experience rather than a any single encounter, but it's a gratifying experience none the less.

These three games opened the way for the next gen action games to take place. Individually, they aren't perfect, that should be made perfectly clear now, because I hate how these discussions always have the majority of people claiming one game is 'clearly' better when that shouldn't be the case. Each have different styles and in those styles, they each have their own weaknesses that the others have exceeded them at. To choose any single one of them over the others exclusively is to limit only your own enjoyment of the full spectrum of the glory that is action gaming.
 

Tain

Member

WHAT THE FUCK

y'all think that low of DMC and DMC4, huh?

DMC3 had a huge amount of problems. Most importantly, the game was a joke to go through. I forced myself to not use potion or reset levels if I didn't do well enough for my liking. On my first playthrough.

And then in DMD it turns tedious. Meh game. DMC1 is leagues better than it.

My man. And lord, some of those enemies are tedious to fight. I couldn't believe the statues.

Seems like combo heaven and all, but that's not what I'm interested in.
 

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
y'all think that low of DMC and DMC4, huh?

DMC3 is just a better game than DMC4 overall, even though DMC4's Dante probably features the deepest combat in any game ever. And DMC3's combat, while technically not quite as robust as DMC4's, was never stifling.

DMC1 is bit of a toss up. Some prefer the atmosphere and tone of DMC1, and I can't blame them for it. There's a lot of minutiae to DMC1's combat as well, like certain weaknesses and strategies. I can respect people preferring DMC1 because it's a different beast.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Both are top of class but my tastes skew towards DMC3 style of action games. Love me some crazy combos.
 
My man. And lord, some of those enemies are tedious to fight. I couldn't believe the statues.

Seems like combo heaven and all, but that's not what I'm interested in.

It's a combo heaven because the enemies never put up any fight....at all.

Also, in the stupid enemies area, how about the floating knights with the crystal in their back? The dissapearing blue fume enemies? The floating angels? The inflatable red bats?

It was just not enjoyable to fight them.
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
DMC1 set some pretty high standards. I played it back at a kiosk when the demo first launched. Preordered it and enjoyed every moment.

DMC3 came out of nowhere and it was an excellent game.

On the other hand... those werewolves in NG2 were a game changer (we're not talking about NG2 though or DMC1). Sadly neither series have improved. NG2 was the last great NG and DMC3 was probably the last great DMC.

I'd feel stupid arguing anything different.
 
DMC1 set some pretty high standards. I played it back at a kiosk when the demo first launched. Preordered it and enjoyed every moment.

DMC3 came out of nowhere and it was an excellent game.

On the other hand... those werewolves in NG2 were a game changer (we're not talking about NG2). Sadly neither series have improved. NG2 was the last great NG and DMC3 was probably the last great DMC.
I feel DMC4 was DMC3 combat to its full potential (for Dante at least), but the rest of the game suffers because of the switch in multiplatform during development really strained the game's development time leading to backtracking and other shortfalls..

edit: I guess the same could be said for NG2's development aswell, didn't have the same amount of time that they did for Black (and rushed for Japanese xbox360 launch right?)
 

Northeastmonk

Gold Member
I feel DMC4 was DMC3 combat to its full potential (for Dante at least), but the rest of the game suffers because of the switch in multiplatform during development really strained the game's development time leading to backtracking and other shortfalls..

You're right. DMC4 was a better effort at retaining what made DMC, DMC. Even if it had its shortcomings in certain areas... DMC4 was leagues better than the new Dante the industry wants us to have in DmC.

Its flaws weren't game changers or the way the game was told. DMC4 kept the same formula.

As for NG. Look at the boss battles in NG2... there's my proof. That's where I'm getting it from.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
I feel DMC4 was DMC3 combat to its full potential (for Dante at least), but the rest of the game suffers because of the switch in multiplatform during development really strained the game's development time leading to backtracking and other shortfalls..

edit: I guess the same could be said for NG2's development aswell, didn't have the same amount of time that they did for Black (and rushed for Japanese xbox360 launch right?)

DMC4's major problem is that it dropped some moves from the styles for the sake of "on-the-fly" switching.

That and the weapon switching being a pain in the ass. If the styles didn't lose moves and it limited to two guns/weapons like DMC3 did, I think it'd be REALLY good. But having to hop through four weapons to get to the one you want is a bit stupid.
 

Synth

Member
Then what does it mean that I enjoy them both equally for what they both do well?

It means you don't have a preference for either.

I may like steak and ice-cream equally for what each does well, but I'm not going to tell something that prefers ice-cream to steak that they're wrong.

Do you like all games of varying genres equally for the things they all do well... or do you prefer some over others, due to personal taste?
 
Top Bottom