CornBurrito
Member
Well "agnostic" can describe theistic positions, atheistic positions, or no position. You suggested you believed in a deity.
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Do you believe in a greater power?
- Thread starter PseudoKirby
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Well "agnostic" can describe theistic positions, atheistic positions, or no position. You suggested you believed in a deity.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I believe in the universe!! I believe that it's masters will defeat skeketor and restore order to the cosmos! But I also believe the toilets are out to get me but do they really constitute as a greater power?
TheKaeptain
Banned
No.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
I tried to be as absolutely neutral as I can, but I know armchair atheists are as hungry as rabid dogs.
Let me rephrase: The universe is fucking incredible. Forces like gravity exist which are immensely powerful and who knows what other forces may or may not be at work.
I could be wrong, but I've heard that the belief in karma extends beyond one life. If a person behaves righteously in one life and does not receive good karma in that life, he will receive it later on in another life. Isn't karma linked to the concept of reincarnation?
CornBurrito
Member
Yes, that is one of the few ways to explain why children can suffer just as much as adults despite not having lived long enough to commit any grotesque "wrongs" in their lifetime.
Though then you open up a can of worms and need to prove reincarnation, souls, and the existence of karma. None of which have much (any) supporting evidence.
There are people who believe in karma, but not reincarnation. And then never ever are able to coherently explain why they think children get punished except for saying that bad things can happen to good people, which is basically counter to their whole belief. Cognitive dissonance at its finest at that point.
Just once I'd like to see someone who states they believe in karma also state that they think the Sandy Hook victims obviously deserved it or "karma" wouldn't have handed them such a fate. Of course that would be giving people who believe in karma (without reincarnation) too much credit.
Aika'svyse
Banned
God, Jesus, Abraham The Holy Ghost, yeah
CornBurrito
Member
It can be just as unendearing as nihilism. You can become an incredibly heartless person incapable of expressing any sympathy if you think the universe is inherently fair. "Oh some children died in a bus crash? The universe is fair, they did something wrong."
TimeEffect
Member
Nope, though maybe determinism
Liquidsnake
Banned
When I think about the universe and beyond, its difficult for me to not believe in a higher power.
Not being able to distinguish between what makes you happy and what's true (or at least evidence-based) isn't an endearing quality.
calling people armchair atheists doesn't make your post more meaningful
sure there could be forces we dont know about, but its credulous to say that you're certain they exist simply because the universe is massive
StealthGoblin
Banned
None of the concepts listed or a deity.
I am however subject to the laws and chaos of the Universe.
I am however subject to the laws and chaos of the Universe.
I think this is pretty harmful - the inability of people to appreciate reality without adding fuzzy magical things. The universe is not fair, but it's still awesome. No need to believe in fairies to not descend into nihilism.
CornBurrito
Member
Wasn't it shown in a lab that some particles act in non-deterministic ways?
This is basically a morphed version of god of the gaps. What gets people so worked up about the position "I don't know" that they have to resort to calling people who take that stance "rabid armchair atheists?"
Going with "omg everything is so amazing, therefore higher power" is not 100% scientific.
"I don't know" is an acceptable alternative to believing in something with no evidence other than your own inability to comprehend a universe without it.
Muffdraul
Member
I became an atheist when I was about 14 or 15 years old, but a few years ago I sort of "realized" that I'm at least open to the possibility that there's some kind of higher being out there... I guess. But if there is one, I can't possibly bring myself to believe that it gives a fuck who we have sex with or anything else about us.
People who rely on superstition, ignorance and wishful thinking are inherently wrong.
twilitesparklemotion
Member
It seems like events in my life have a certain structure to them, but we all have the habit of imposing design onto randomness (or a narrative onto a jumbled mess of facts.) So, no. I'm an optimistic nihilist (stoic naturalist) (agnostic atheist) (Jennifer Lawrence) (adjective noun).
Yes, like radioactive decay at a quantum scale. Certainly not an expect, but I recall them showing that the manner of which it works is completely random at the level of individual atoms.
speculawyer
Member
Confirmation bias that makes us feel better.
More Fun To Compute
Member
You are disabled because you deserve it. In fact you are ugly as well so inside you are probably a monster.
vs
That sucks, but it probably doesn't say anything about you, shit happens.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
No.
Nor do I really "get" the "this is really complex, it must have been created by something" logic.
It feels so backwards to me. The word itself is far more complex than any one being could create or control.. therefore there is no such being = makes much more sense to me.
In the end none of it is relevant to my life, because I choose to live that way. I'm fascinated by different viewpoints and admittedly at least a bit judgmental of many of them. Not that it's to the point I lose all respect for people, I just don't get it or find value in what other people put so much value in. It's all very ironically vacuous to me or something.
Nor do I really "get" the "this is really complex, it must have been created by something" logic.
It feels so backwards to me. The word itself is far more complex than any one being could create or control.. therefore there is no such being = makes much more sense to me.
In the end none of it is relevant to my life, because I choose to live that way. I'm fascinated by different viewpoints and admittedly at least a bit judgmental of many of them. Not that it's to the point I lose all respect for people, I just don't get it or find value in what other people put so much value in. It's all very ironically vacuous to me or something.
Yeah, but in a few years they'll find a pattern.
I don't put much stock into a cutting edge discoveries. As of right now, much of the known universe behaves in ways that are predictable and subject to laws and unchanging properties. I think over time, when quantum mechanics becomes better understood, scientists will observe similar unchanging properties and predictable behavior.
Future PhaZe
Member
Nothing makes sense no matter what way you want to look at things.
The thought that something, anything, came from absolutely nothing is kind of insane.
So is the thought of a god coming from absolutely nothing as well.
It makes me feel better to think that the truth is out there, but that our universe is so unbelievably old and riddled with history that cannot be traced that answers will never really ever be found.
The thought that something, anything, came from absolutely nothing is kind of insane.
So is the thought of a god coming from absolutely nothing as well.
It makes me feel better to think that the truth is out there, but that our universe is so unbelievably old and riddled with history that cannot be traced that answers will never really ever be found.
You take faulty logic to its worst extremes. I don't think most people with a "fair universe" viewpoint actively believe that each and every shortcoming or ailment was deserved. I think their belief is more centered on the idea that a higher power will ultimately dole out justice.
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
Yes, I've always believed in myself.
PseudoKirby
Banned
I don't want to justify it, but maybe it is the event needed in this world to stricken up gun control laws and save lives in the future?
CornBurrito
Member
What I don't get is the whole "the universe is just TOO amazing, I HAVE to believe itneeded a creator to kickstart it."
Wouldn't the universe be even more fucking amazing if it began with no higher power to kickstart it? How is that not even more fucking amazing and mindblowing?
If I was going to believe in things based on how amazing they are, I would believe in a universe devoid of magical beings.
I thought karma was a clear "bad things happen to bad people, good things happen to good people."
You seem to be talking about a belief in something other than karma.
Why does there simply have to be?
Wouldn't the universe be even more fucking amazing if it began with no higher power to kickstart it? How is that not even more fucking amazing and mindblowing?
If I was going to believe in things based on how amazing they are, I would believe in a universe devoid of magical beings.
I thought karma was a clear "bad things happen to bad people, good things happen to good people."
You seem to be talking about a belief in something other than karma.
Why does there simply have to be?
Tesseract
Banned
former agnostic turned theist after years of studying math and science. not that one led to the other, i just stopped seeing conflict between religion and science and became a happier, more productive person for it. i'm getting too old to care what people believe so long as they let experiment be the sole judge of truth in things that matter, like evolution being fact or whatever.
yolo bbq
yolo bbq
TimeEffect
Member
Maybe, but is it not possible that we simply do not know why they act in a non-deterministic way? That they do act in a deterministic way that we are unaware of? Or that, their apparent non-determinism is still bound by certain laws?
I'm not too sure myself
More Fun To Compute
Member
I only say it because some people do. Probably as significant a belief as nihilists who believe that there is nothing worthwhile or meaningful in the universe.
Who puts mold in bathrooms?
MoonLightWave
Member
Sure, why not. I'm not sure if there are any greater power but I'm open for it.
I don't see it as any more tragic than people dying in general, a death is still somebody dead. I believe in it from an individual standpoint like say you stole something from me and then it happens to you.
I dont understand
you're a self proclaimed theist convert
but you're still putting evidence down as the most important thing when deciding?
there is no reason to believe that there is meaning or purpose to life, so ill stick with that until there is one
CornBurrito
Member
Evolutionary theory for the development of humans as a species.
Abiogenesis is doing pretty well, and gives several hypotheses for the origin of life.
There are several hypotheses for the origins of the universe.
None of these require a higher power (as in a sentient overseeing force).
And why do you believe that?
Do beaten wives deserve to be beaten in your opinion? Why does this karmic force allow women to be beaten by their husbands? Many of which get away with it for years, and I'm willing to bet some never ever got caught. Or existed in a time period where beating wives was common and acceptable.
Speaking of which, does karma work under your morals or the morals of the past? For example, would karma reward a man who beats his wife for speaking out of turn? Such behavior was socially acceptable in the past. And maybe still is in some parts of the world. Does karma reward that behavior in some places, but not others? Or reward it in some time periods but not others?
And how do you determine when karma is the force responsible for a "bad" person getting in trouble? If good people can be stolen from, bad people can also be stolen from. Why is it only karma in the second case, and random chance in the first? Why can't it be random chance in both cases?
Not really. At least personally, or on an earthly level, I don't think any being or group of beings caused our existence. But I'm open to the possibility that there could be some kind of powerful being somewhere out in the universe. It doesn't really matter since within my lifetime I will probably never encounter it.
Nope. I could ascribe that name to just how vast, intricate, and amazing I find the universe, but that would just cause confusion because people usually use "higher power" to refer to a very humanlike god.
We got here via the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.
We got here via the non-random survival of randomly varying replicators.
Bel Marduk
Banned
.. I believe in the trees ..
... I believe in music ...
... I believe in music ...
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