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Do you still like cover-based shooters? (alias Quantum Break/Max Payne 3 spoiled me)

Filben

Member
I don't know exactly which game 'invented' this, but I reckon it could have been Gears of War. And like the automatic health regeneration (apart from Star Luster on the NES I think the first game made it really popluar was Halo 2) it spread over lots of shooters but primary third-person shooters. I got used to it, for a long while, but hell I loved Max Payne 3 for its fast paced gameplay. So much that I re-played the first two games (and realised how surpassing the writing is over the third game, but gameplay-wise it was a blast!). That was when I slightly got bored by the statics of modern third-person shooters but not really annoyed until I played Quantum Break.

For those who aren't familiar with the gameplay of Quantum Break (those who are familiar with it can skip this paragraph):
It's not that QB don't offer a cover system but the hero interacts automatically, means he ducks when behind wall remnants, tables or the like, like Lara Croft since Tomb Raider (2013). This works because it doesn't change anything; no controls (you aren't 'glued' to the wall), no shooting mechanics are changed etc. pp. Everything stays exactly the same except you just are less likely to be hit. So you can play it like any other cover-based shooter but you are encouraged to do not.

How does the game encourage you to not use cover (most of the time)?
Most games simply let you no other choice because enemies are tough, aim well and hit hard. The moment you enter a room you recognize if there's a fight gonna start or not because potential cover is well-placed in that 'arena' (it kind of feels less organic and very... well, game-like). And if you do not use cover you are likely to die. Automatic health regeneration often benefits the cover usage: there are no medical supplies you can use while running guns blazing, or picking anything up that refills your health bar on the way after clipping an enemy enroute to the next cluster of lead-deserving bad guys.

The only way is to avoid fire, means sitting behind a wall and doing nothing. In Quantum Break you have many time-altering abilities to survive or use 'cover' dynamically: you can slow down time, you can build a bullet eating time-bubble around you, you can sprint 10 meters in half a second and you can temporarily freeze enemies (in Max Payne 3 you only have bullet time but also painkillers you can use to survive and out-heal some damage without using cover).

It's refreshing and such a blast to play. I remember first person shooters to be exactly like this, for instance Soldier of Fortune, Quake, Unreal or more modern one like FEAR, RAGE, Hard Reset, Doom or Titanfall... they were and are so dynamic compared to many other third person shooters. And I don't think these modern ones don't HAVE to be like that. It's not a 'feature' per se and shouldn't be.

I tried The Devision, Mafia 3 and re-played the Uncharted series, just to name a few—remember, I only discuss this specific mechanics, not the overall gameplay, plot or writing. And I realise that the fun is noticeable downscaled.

I don't really see a reason why you 'invent' such heavy encouragement of cover-usage as it really slows down the pace of the gameplay. Why would you want that in general for an action game? A well-placed slow intermezzo should be allowed to bring down your adrenalin after or before the (next) climactic shootout. I remember it 'looking cool' to fire blindly over a cover or to see a different animation and my character somewhat interacting with the environment back then. But why building the gameplay around that?

Hence, my question: do YOU still like that? Do you endorse slowing down the pace? Is it a more relaxed gaming experience? What are you thoughts on this?
 

Trup1aya

Member
Quantum Break isn't a cover based shooter, but people felt inclined to play it that way and really didn't get the proper experience

I wish it didn't have that system at all so people would have been more inclined to use the powers to navigate the playspaces

But to answer your question, YES. Not being shackled to a cover system is liberating. I wish more games would go back I things regard.
 

Ryde3

Member
I played most of Max Payne 3 w/o ever taking cover, and kind of wish it wasn't included.

I played some Gears 4 though, and would play more cover based shooters in the future BUT, after 400+ hours of PUBG I don't think I need it...
 
As long as using snap-to-cover is both intuitive and reliable, yet not indefinitely safe due to flanking enemies or destructible cover, then I'm fine with it. Anything that allows a higher degree of interaction with the environment is a positive for me (unless it's broken). It's why I still enjoy Uncharted's gameplay (in 2 and 4, at least) because of the traversal that's possible during combat—taking cover can involve hanging off the side of a truck that's dynamically moving amid other vehicles and enemies.

Also Mafia III is really mediocre as a shooter.
And yet it's still better than most open world games in that regard
 

Sygma

Member
Quantum and Max Payne 3 were basically miles ahead of every cover shooter but, Quantum isn't exactly one of them. I'd love R* to work on Max 4 because they seriously nailed way too hard everything with Max

Otherwise yeah i guess I don't mind them if there's a good narrative behind and some variations in the gameplay rather than being a pure cover shooter
 
After such games like Max Payne 2 and Resident Evil 6, I admit it's been difficult for me to enjoy cover-based shooters. Uncharted 4 I liked only because I found the story engaging enough to tolerate the mechanics. I'm looking forward to The Lost Legacy for the same reason.
 
Typically I do not like them. If the only skill required of me is to pop up, shoot at someone, and then go back into cover, I'll likely be bored in no time.

There are exceptions though. The Mass Effect games involved a lot of cover, but you could coordinate your squad and chain up some nice attacks. You could also charge in with some classes and wreck shit.

Quantum Break had you moving all over the place spamming time powers and whatnot. Cover was required if you're taking too much damage, but not really necessary.

I really didn't like the combat in The Division until I had some skills that allowed me to move around a bit and take damage while playing aggressively.
 

Ryoku

Member
I think the best implementation of cover-based shooting is when it is optional instead of the only/major mechanic. An example of this is Splatoon. Many opportunities for using cover, and although it can help a player by allowing for surprise attacks or maintaining an area, it is not the core mechanic of the game. The Crysis games also did this well. Rainbow Six Siege is another example.
 

peppers

Member
I feel like every time someone complains about combat in QB literally played it like a cover shooter which is not. MP3 in that regard had an easier time to explain its mechanics because it was the third installment I guess.
Many of us feel like QB could have used a separate horde mode to flesh out the combat a little more.
It happens something similar with the Gears of War series, in the context of multiplayer specifically. You play the campaign like a cover shooter but in versus modes it's all about using cover to move, bounce, aim and dodge enemies (while at the same time using the super powerful shotgun). It's pretty crazy to think that it wasn't originally conceived to be played like this although Gears 4 has completely embraced it. It's really fast paced and if you are interested I recommend you watch pros playing.
 
My appreciation for cover based TPS is decreasing too. Games like Titanfall, Doom and Quantum Break make navigation more entertaining. Probably that's one of the reasons I didn't enjoyed much Gears 4. To not get bored, my strategy was shotgun charging which ocassionally ended in me crawling for revival, which isn't funny.
 

Filben

Member
How did you leave out Vanquish?

Also Mafia III is really mediocre as a shooter.
I didn't play Vanquish long enough on PS3 back then, but I remember it offers you cover but also encourages you to engage actively. As for Mafia 3 I was somewhat satisfied with the gunplay since animations were cool and hit feedback was fun. Shooting while running also felt satisfying but unfortunately they made it like you eat two hits and are about to die so you won't do that often and rather stick behind cover.

I played most of Max Payne 3 w/o ever taking cover, and kind of wish it wasn't included.
At least they offered a 'classic' difficulty level that removes that feature. But it also touches other gameplay-difficulty variables like Bullet Time regain and health points. And you have to unlock that difficulty, as far as I know. So yeah, not the best effort but at least you are not forced to do it the whole time.

Typically I do not like them. If the only skill required of me is to pop up, shoot at someone, and then go back into cover, I'll likely be bored in no time.
Exactly. It feels like those lame browser game shooters but with better graphics. Not my understanding of a (modern) action game.

There are exceptions though. The Mass Effect games involved a lot of cover, but you could coordinate your squad and chain up some nice attacks. You could also charge in with some classes and wreck shit.
Now that you mention it I too wanted to list Mass Effect as a positive example but also wanted to keep the OP more compact. But yeah! With shields and items to use to regenerate these shields and health, and abilities to use and chain up with your squad mates really get you going. It really is fun.

MP3 in that regard had an easier time to explain its mechanics because it was the third installment I guess.
Plus the game often throws you into situations where you literally have no cover. Often, Max starts running right towards enemies (at the disco, at the Branco cooperation building after your boss shuts his doors, at the club in the favelas etc.) or is hanging on a rope or is already jumping towards a group of enemies as you take over control. So the game suggests to actually play like this. At least on normal and easy difficulties where the Bullet Time meter fills up more quickly.
 
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