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"Doctor Sleep" - sequel to "The Shining" - Trailers

thequestion

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For a sequel I never asked for, I must say, my interested is slightly peaked. It’s probably because of the music used....obi wan does look great, though.
 

#Phonepunk#

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ive seen that thumbnail image many times now. tbh it kind of annoys the heck out of me and makes me want to not see this. just taking the classic "Here's Johnny" and rebooting it. so typical of "sequels" these days. just do what the original did and "update" it. no need to come up with your own imagery. just throw out those member berries.
 
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Weird, I thought King hated almost all of the changes and style that Kubrick used for his book, but this movie seems to showcase a lot of the things people loved about the movie specifically.
 

Tesseract

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Weird, I thought King hated almost all of the changes and style that Kubrick used for his book, but this movie seems to showcase a lot of the things people loved about the movie specifically.
the director tried to balance both worlds since they're beloved by different fans for various reasons
 
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Just watched this and really enjoyed it. The nods to the original and recreation of the hotel are as perfect as they could be but the film doesn't rely on callbacks to The Shining, mostly doing it's own thing.

Shame they couldn't do a CGI face swap for Jack but I guess we can't have everything.

I enjoyed The True Knot and Rose the Hat villains. They were pretty evil and brutal, killing kids with the Shine.

Overall I think they did a great job making a sequel to a classic. Far better than I ever hoped it would be.
 

DKehoe

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Just back from seeing it and really enjoyed it.

Weird, I thought King hated almost all of the changes and style that Kubrick used for his book, but this movie seems to showcase a lot of the things people loved about the movie specifically.
I believe King's major objection to the film was that it moves the focus away from the family dynamic and Jack struggling with his issues. Whereas the film focuses more on the haunted house aspects of the hotel. A big part of the Doctor Sleep film was Danny struggling with his issues so it keeps that theme as well as incorporating visual elements Kubrick used which I don't believe King had any issues with.
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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If I recall correctly, two of King’s major objections with the Kubrick film were A.) Wendy being a “sniveling screeching weakling” in the movie B.) the ending, stating simply that “the book ends in fire, the movie ends in ice” or something like that. I don’t remember all the quotes and details. I think he also objected to omitting a somewhat redeeming element in Jack’s arc.

I read all this back when the first teaser dropped and I was about to read the Doctor Sleep novel, I could be way off
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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It’s good. It’s not a masterpiece but it’s good.

Flanagan does a good job emulating aspects from the novel into the Kubrick universe, which had numerous changes from the original novel.

It’s pretty creepy/eerie in its own right, not what I would consider a “very scary” if you’re looking for Conjuring style frights.

Even at close to two and a half hours it almost feels rushed at times but maybe that’s because I recently read the book.

8 out of 10

solid

based on the two lines she said in the trailer, I wasn’t expecting much from the girl who plays Abra, I expected stiff child acting, but she’s pretty decent.
 
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Got a chance to watch this myself, and overall I actually quite enjoyed it, especially the first two acts. But there's some specific things I gotta bring up (including some nitpicks/criticisms in the 3rd Act....keep in mind I haven't read the Shining or Doctor Sleep novels, so in that regard my only point of reference is Kubrick's film).

1: I don't feel this is quite in spirit to The Shining. By that I mean in terms of how everything's structured, in terms of pacing, and certain storytelling conventions and techniques utilized. Doctor Sleep is WAAAY more plot-driven than The Shining, and plays more as scifi/paranormal suspense-thriller with action beats. In fact, in that regard it reminded me more in spirit of Cronenberg's Scanners, Rabid or VideoDrome...which for me is AWESOME because I LOVE those movies, and I haven't seen much anything channeling their vibe in a long, LONG time. Doctor Sleep does that for me, and it was a really nice surprise.

2: That said, the fact it channels those movies so much (at least IMO) particularly in the first two acts will probably be jarring to fans of Kubrick's film that were expecting something more in line with it. To me The Shining was really more of a slow-burn character study playing out a case of dementia that erodes into a psychotic breakdown, influenced by haunting apparitions in the mold of paranormal suspense/horror film. While Doctor Sleep has elements of that in it still, it isn't structured the same way: it's faster-paced, much more plot-driven and puts focus on a larger range of characters.

In some ways, I'd actually say Joker is maybe more in "spirit" to Kubrick's film, as that's also something of a slow-burn character study of someone within a state of dementia eventually breaking down due to the world around him. Like The Shining, while there are other things in it bigger and aside the character themselves, the lead is still the focus, and they're the one gradually losing what little grip on sanity they have left in their respective environments.

That isn't me saying Joker is a better movie than Doctor Sleep, though; they're pretty different in too many ways to warrant a direct comparison. I'm just saying, for fans of Kubrick's film who want something closer in spirit to that, even if it isn't set in the same universe, Joker could be more their fit, long as they're cool with missing out on all the references since, again, different film universe. If I could've pictured a sequel more in line with Kubrick's film, it'd include some mix of Joker, Altered States (1980), and parts of Doctor Sleep itself.

3: There's one sequence in the first arc in particular that's just good damn mesmerizing. If you've ever had an out-of-body experience, you'll probably know which one I'm referring to. Excellent cinematography and sense of weightlessness there (and throughout the film as a whole, but particularly this sequence).

4: I'm so happy that they treated Danny and the other returning characters with so much respect. Danny in particular, as he's for The Shining (you could say) what John Conner is for Terminator, and in light of Dark Fate literally killing Conner off in a record three minutes (which I'm still not over, and still massively hurt that film's story not to mention screwed up with certain themes that were in the other Terminator films, particularly the first 3), I was worried we'd have another case of a returning male character getting figuratively demoted or done away with to make way for a new female lead replacement.

Thankfully, that doesn't happen, and it comes off a lot as Danny as you'd picture him in his adult years, eventually working together with Abra, the new female with a remarkably strong Shine, to deal with a new threat. I think Abra's actress did pretty well considering they had to measure up to McGregor's stature. The two play off each other well, I guess the only notable complaint I have in this regard is Abra becoming something of *too* much of a badass towards the 3rd act.

She always had a bit of snark even as a little kid (guess you could call it overt enthusiasm and self-confidence being read that way on my part :/), and given what she goes through in the film I'd expect her to toughen up, but for a certain major tragedy that happens to one of her parents in particular, I'd of thought she'd be more shook for a longer period of time than she was, and it would've been nice is Danny were to be the one needing to get her out of that head-space so they could deal with the final threat.

5: Right...so this is now gonna get into the 3rd act. Now, I know a lot of people are going to get SOOO MUCH out of this act, but for me, it was the weakest of the three. Part of the reason is because by this point I had already resigned to seeing Doctor Sleep as being "spiritually similar" to The Shining (again, the movie; I haven't read the books for either film...yet). I saw it more as something in spirit to a late '70's/early '80s Cronenberg film with Shining influences, characters and lore, and was perfectly happy with that.

However, the 3rd act goes full-tilt with references to The Shining, and IMHO, most of them are the kind of references that are the grating "wink wink, nudge nudge" type. A lot of visual references to events in the hotel (the twins, the river of blood, Room 237, the typewriter etc.) are in this act and look cool (and ARE cool) in and of themselves on the surface, but if you really think about it...what are they adding to Doctor Sleep's story? Other than nostalgic callouts? When you have characters specific to this movie seeing those things as we do, and then smirk about it, almost as if doing so to the camera in that "that's pretty neat, isn't it?" kind of way, it just feels a bit shallow.

I could've done without that, and what's odd is that there's yet ANOTHER nostalgic reference in this same act that manages to be transformative and ADDS to Doctor Sleep's narrative. So I don't quite understand why the others don't reach that level when this specific one (you'll know it when you see it) does, and acts as a great characterization moment for Danny in particular. If the others had done this, then I would've enjoyed the 3rd act more, and would have been able to more readily accept its shift in being more or a literal build-upon of Kubrick's movie even if I had been conditioned to see it as more in vein of a work like Scanners from the first two acts.

...............................

Besides such, that's really all I have in terms of nitpicks. There's a bit of questioning I could do about the titular villain's supposedly superhuman strength in the 3rd act when they fight Danny, but that can probably be rationalized by multiple things (their "absorbing" souls as energy right before that act, Danny likely in a somewhat weakened state since he's rusty from not utilizing his Shine for a long while, the villain's rapid short-term soul ingestion possibly causing a state of them powering up a bit in relation to Danny given it's established they also absorb souls to retain their youthful energy and looks, sort of like vampires etc.), so I won't really bother here.

There's also something that happens with Danny shortly after this fight that I didn't quite like, in that he seemingly ends up "possessed" by the same spirits he had locked into the figurative mental boxes within his mind. I can understand the logic behind how they possess him (they've been locked up for years, they're probably hella pissed off at him), but from Kubrick's film I never got the impression that the spirits could literally possess anyone. Rather, they seemed more like classical evil, i.e working as a way of influence on a target but the target eventually needing to be the one to give in to their own vices and worst tendencies, and let those rise from subconscious suppression to consciously driving their behaviors and actions. This is what we see from Jack in The Shining, and I would've preferred the spirits Danny released from his mind have operated in the same way, perhaps tapping to a recess of bad tendencies (aside from his drinking, which he has to deal with throughout the film and seemingly conquers in the 3rd act).

BUT, aside from that, there's really nothing that I could consider a negative or jarring in this film (well, there IS a line from Danny to Abra near the end that could be taken as a pseudo "girl empowerment" line if you want to read it that way, but it's done enough in reference to the lore itself that it's mainly just quasi-cheesy if not optimistic). However, I do think for those who haven't read the novels and are expecting something like The Shining in terms of being a slow-burn character study into dementia breakdown and psychotic insanity are going to be jarred coming into this, at least for a bit.

If they can come to see the movie on its own terms and have a liking for the other types of films it channels (regarding vibes), then I think they'll get over that jarring and come to really quite like it, even if they are partially annoyed with some of the nostalgic callbacks in the 3rd act like I was. Otherwise, while I still think they'll like the movie overall, they might want to consider Joker if they want something that feels more like a spiritual successor to The Shining, granted something that's arguably less abstract and layered (and doesn't take place in the same universe whatsoever).

That all said, it's still easily one of the best films of the year so far for me, up there with stuff like Joker and Jo Jo Rabbit . And I do consider it a worthy followup to Stanley's classic that feels very respectful towards the original work (and I would assume, the novels) and its characters; you're not getting any unnecessary "subversion of expectations" here or slaps in the face to the original fandom just to make new characters look good. Even the marketing was on-point, insofar as not belittling or attacking fans of the original or the novels just because they may've been a bit hesistant to know what this was all about.

This is how you build upon an established film narrative the right way, and hopefully other works going forward can take some much-needed cues in doing the same. With that said, I feel like it's a logical conclusion to the film's narrative universe and there's not really a need for another sequel AFAIK, but if the talent involved here manage to concoct something spellbinding and captivating, I'm game (y)
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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Got a chance to watch this myself, and overall I actually quite enjoyed it, especially the first two acts. But there's some specific things I gotta bring up (including some nitpicks/criticisms in the 3rd Act....keep in mind I haven't read the Shining or Doctor Sleep novels, so in that regard my only point of reference is Kubrick's film).

1: I don't feel this is quite in spirit to The Shining. By that I mean in terms of how everything's structured, in terms of pacing, and certain storytelling conventions and techniques utilized. Doctor Sleep is WAAAY more plot-driven than The Shining, and plays more as scifi/paranormal suspense-thriller with action beats. In fact, in that regard it reminded me more in spirit of Cronenberg's Scanners, Rabid or VideoDrome...which for me is AWESOME because I LOVE those movies, and I haven't seen much anything channeling their vibe in a long, LONG time. Doctor Sleep does that for me, and it was a really nice surprise.

2: That said, the fact it channels those movies so much (at least IMO) particularly in the first two acts will probably be jarring to fans of Kubrick's film that were expecting something more in line with it. To me The Shining was really more of a slow-burn character study playing out a case of dementia that erodes into a psychotic breakdown, influenced by haunting apparitions in the mold of paranormal suspense/horror film. While Doctor Sleep has elements of that in it still, it isn't structured the same way: it's faster-paced, much more plot-driven and puts focus on a larger range of characters.

In some ways, I'd actually say Joker is maybe more in "spirit" to Kubrick's film, as that's also something of a slow-burn character study of someone within a state of dementia eventually breaking down due to the world around him. Like The Shining, while there are other things in it bigger and aside the character themselves, the lead is still the focus, and they're the one gradually losing what little grip on sanity they have left in their respective environments.

That isn't me saying Joker is a better movie than Doctor Sleep, though; they're pretty different in too many ways to warrant a direct comparison. I'm just saying, for fans of Kubrick's film who want something closer in spirit to that, even if it isn't set in the same universe, Joker could be more their fit, long as they're cool with missing out on all the references since, again, different film universe. If I could've pictured a sequel more in line with Kubrick's film, it'd include some mix of Joker, Altered States (1980), and parts of Doctor Sleep itself.

3: There's one sequence in the first arc in particular that's just good damn mesmerizing. If you've ever had an out-of-body experience, you'll probably know which one I'm referring to. Excellent cinematography and sense of weightlessness there (and throughout the film as a whole, but particularly this sequence).

4: I'm so happy that they treated Danny and the other returning characters with so much respect. Danny in particular, as he's for The Shining (you could say) what John Conner is for Terminator, and in light of Dark Fate literally killing Conner off in a record three minutes (which I'm still not over, and still massively hurt that film's story not to mention screwed up with certain themes that were in the other Terminator films, particularly the first 3), I was worried we'd have another case of a returning male character getting figuratively demoted or done away with to make way for a new female lead replacement.

Thankfully, that doesn't happen, and it comes off a lot as Danny as you'd picture him in his adult years, eventually working together with Abra, the new female with a remarkably strong Shine, to deal with a new threat. I think Abra's actress did pretty well considering they had to measure up to McGregor's stature. The two play off each other well, I guess the only notable complaint I have in this regard is Abra becoming something of *too* much of a badass towards the 3rd act.

She always had a bit of snark even as a little kid (guess you could call it overt enthusiasm and self-confidence being read that way on my part :/), and given what she goes through in the film I'd expect her to toughen up, but for a certain major tragedy that happens to one of her parents in particular, I'd of thought she'd be more shook for a longer period of time than she was, and it would've been nice is Danny were to be the one needing to get her out of that head-space so they could deal with the final threat.

5: Right...so this is now gonna get into the 3rd act. Now, I know a lot of people are going to get SOOO MUCH out of this act, but for me, it was the weakest of the three. Part of the reason is because by this point I had already resigned to seeing Doctor Sleep as being "spiritually similar" to The Shining (again, the movie; I haven't read the books for either film...yet). I saw it more as something in spirit to a late '70's/early '80s Cronenberg film with Shining influences, characters and lore, and was perfectly happy with that.

However, the 3rd act goes full-tilt with references to The Shining, and IMHO, most of them are the kind of references that are the grating "wink wink, nudge nudge" type. A lot of visual references to events in the hotel (the twins, the river of blood, Room 237, the typewriter etc.) are in this act and look cool (and ARE cool) in and of themselves on the surface, but if you really think about it...what are they adding to Doctor Sleep's story? Other than nostalgic callouts? When you have characters specific to this movie seeing those things as we do, and then smirk about it, almost as if doing so to the camera in that "that's pretty neat, isn't it?" kind of way, it just feels a bit shallow.

I could've done without that, and what's odd is that there's yet ANOTHER nostalgic reference in this same act that manages to be transformative and ADDS to Doctor Sleep's narrative. So I don't quite understand why the others don't reach that level when this specific one (you'll know it when you see it) does, and acts as a great characterization moment for Danny in particular. If the others had done this, then I would've enjoyed the 3rd act more, and would have been able to more readily accept its shift in being more or a literal build-upon of Kubrick's movie even if I had been conditioned to see it as more in vein of a work like Scanners from the first two acts.

...............................

Besides such, that's really all I have in terms of nitpicks. There's a bit of questioning I could do about the titular villain's supposedly superhuman strength in the 3rd act when they fight Danny, but that can probably be rationalized by multiple things (their "absorbing" souls as energy right before that act, Danny likely in a somewhat weakened state since he's rusty from not utilizing his Shine for a long while, the villain's rapid short-term soul ingestion possibly causing a state of them powering up a bit in relation to Danny given it's established they also absorb souls to retain their youthful energy and looks, sort of like vampires etc.), so I won't really bother here.

There's also something that happens with Danny shortly after this fight that I didn't quite like, in that he seemingly ends up "possessed" by the same spirits he had locked into the figurative mental boxes within his mind. I can understand the logic behind how they possess him (they've been locked up for years, they're probably hella pissed off at him), but from Kubrick's film I never got the impression that the spirits could literally possess anyone. Rather, they seemed more like classical evil, i.e working as a way of influence on a target but the target eventually needing to be the one to give in to their own vices and worst tendencies, and let those rise from subconscious suppression to consciously driving their behaviors and actions. This is what we see from Jack in The Shining, and I would've preferred the spirits Danny released from his mind have operated in the same way, perhaps tapping to a recess of bad tendencies (aside from his drinking, which he has to deal with throughout the film and seemingly conquers in the 3rd act).

BUT, aside from that, there's really nothing that I could consider a negative or jarring in this film (well, there IS a line from Danny to Abra near the end that could be taken as a pseudo "girl empowerment" line if you want to read it that way, but it's done enough in reference to the lore itself that it's mainly just quasi-cheesy if not optimistic). However, I do think for those who haven't read the novels and are expecting something like The Shining in terms of being a slow-burn character study into dementia breakdown and psychotic insanity are going to be jarred coming into this, at least for a bit.

If they can come to see the movie on its own terms and have a liking for the other types of films it channels (regarding vibes), then I think they'll get over that jarring and come to really quite like it, even if they are partially annoyed with some of the nostalgic callbacks in the 3rd act like I was. Otherwise, while I still think they'll like the movie overall, they might want to consider Joker if they want something that feels more like a spiritual successor to The Shining, granted something that's arguably less abstract and layered (and doesn't take place in the same universe whatsoever).

That all said, it's still easily one of the best films of the year so far for me, up there with stuff like Joker and Jo Jo Rabbit . And I do consider it a worthy followup to Stanley's classic that feels very respectful towards the original work (and I would assume, the novels) and its characters; you're not getting any unnecessary "subversion of expectations" here or slaps in the face to the original fandom just to make new characters look good. Even the marketing was on-point, insofar as not belittling or attacking fans of the original or the novels just because they may've been a bit hesistant to know what this was
so your post is deeper and better articulated than anything I’m capable of, but I thought I’d share my main gripe as well, and it’s a similar gripe I had with the Kubrick film and something I have read King mention as well

First two acts are book sequel, third act is film sequel. I respect Flanagan for walking that line and paying homage to both.

My main gripe: in the The Shining book, the hotel was the main villain. In the movie, Jack is the main villain. The film completely omits Jack‘s redemption at the end, just like this movie completely omits Jack’s redemption and just keeps him as an evil slave to the hotel and alcoholism.

I prefer the books’ final takes on Jack. Redemption is powerful and people need hope. I won’t get specific in case people still need/want to read it but in the Doctor Sleep novel, Jack’s “appearance” is much different and aligned with the first novel.

also, couple more general thoughts to add

movie is beautifully shot and wonderfully scored. The music is great.
 
Last edited:
Aug 28, 2019
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so your post is deeper and better articulated than anything I’m capable of, but I thought I’d share my main gripe as well, and it’s a similar gripe I had with the Kubrick film and something I have read King mention as well

First two acts are book sequel, third act is film sequel. I respect Flanagan for walking that line and paying homage to both.

My main gripe: in the The Shining book, the hotel was the main villain. In the movie, Jack is the main villain. The film completely omits Jack‘s redemption at the end, just like this movie completely omits Jack’s redemption and just keeps him as an evil slave to the hotel and alcoholism.

I prefer the books’ final takes on Jack. Redemption is powerful and people need hope. I won’t get specific in case people still need/want to read it but in the Doctor Sleep novel, Jack’s “appearance” is much different and aligned with the first novel.

also, couple more general thoughts to add

movie is beautifully shot and wonderfully scored. The music is great.
That's actually pretty insightful, I didn't know the Kubrick film diverged that much from the book. It's also a bit ironic that tey did that, because stories with
redemption arcs
seem to be really popular these days, particularly in animation. It's almost so common that I feel stories which don't go that route are a refreshing change, but in the case of Shining
I would've accepted a redemption arc for Jack just to see how it'd go

But there's also, maybe the thought on their part that going such a route would've messed with the vibe the movie was going for. Also possible Kubrick
may've wanted a female "final girl" protagonist if he was inspired by Alien just a little while before filming The Shining
. I wonder if he' s ever mentioned why he made those changes.
 
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Chunk Loves Sloth

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Grace’s Review

edit

this review is pretty spoiler-ish, proceed with caution if trying to avoid anything not shown in trailers


(she didn’t like it, thinks it fails as a sequel to the Kubrick work)
 
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Merzbear

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My friend told me about this today. It sounds amazing, another thing that I wanted from fiction. It's the appeal of the established ideas from The Shining but taking place in the childs adult life. That and that it doesn't shy away from the brutality to children. Stephen King REALLY likes killing kids.

Do you have any idea how much effort it is to legally watch The Shining though? Both Netflix and Amazon Prime don't have it. 🙄
 

King of Foxes

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Got a chance to watch this myself, and overall I actually quite enjoyed it, especially the first two acts. But there's some specific things I gotta bring up (including some nitpicks/criticisms in the 3rd Act....keep in mind I haven't read the Shining or Doctor Sleep novels, so in that regard my only point of reference is Kubrick's film).

1: I don't feel this is quite in spirit to The Shining. By that I mean in terms of how everything's structured, in terms of pacing, and certain storytelling conventions and techniques utilized. Doctor Sleep is WAAAY more plot-driven than The Shining, and plays more as scifi/paranormal suspense-thriller with action beats. In fact, in that regard it reminded me more in spirit of Cronenberg's Scanners, Rabid or VideoDrome...which for me is AWESOME because I LOVE those movies, and I haven't seen much anything channeling their vibe in a long, LONG time. Doctor Sleep does that for me, and it was a really nice surprise.

2: That said, the fact it channels those movies so much (at least IMO) particularly in the first two acts will probably be jarring to fans of Kubrick's film that were expecting something more in line with it. To me The Shining was really more of a slow-burn character study playing out a case of dementia that erodes into a psychotic breakdown, influenced by haunting apparitions in the mold of paranormal suspense/horror film. While Doctor Sleep has elements of that in it still, it isn't structured the same way: it's faster-paced, much more plot-driven and puts focus on a larger range of characters.

In some ways, I'd actually say Joker is maybe more in "spirit" to Kubrick's film, as that's also something of a slow-burn character study of someone within a state of dementia eventually breaking down due to the world around him. Like The Shining, while there are other things in it bigger and aside the character themselves, the lead is still the focus, and they're the one gradually losing what little grip on sanity they have left in their respective environments.

That isn't me saying Joker is a better movie than Doctor Sleep, though; they're pretty different in too many ways to warrant a direct comparison. I'm just saying, for fans of Kubrick's film who want something closer in spirit to that, even if it isn't set in the same universe, Joker could be more their fit, long as they're cool with missing out on all the references since, again, different film universe. If I could've pictured a sequel more in line with Kubrick's film, it'd include some mix of Joker, Altered States (1980), and parts of Doctor Sleep itself.

3: There's one sequence in the first arc in particular that's just good damn mesmerizing. If you've ever had an out-of-body experience, you'll probably know which one I'm referring to. Excellent cinematography and sense of weightlessness there (and throughout the film as a whole, but particularly this sequence).

4: I'm so happy that they treated Danny and the other returning characters with so much respect. Danny in particular, as he's for The Shining (you could say) what John Conner is for Terminator, and in light of Dark Fate literally killing Conner off in a record three minutes (which I'm still not over, and still massively hurt that film's story not to mention screwed up with certain themes that were in the other Terminator films, particularly the first 3), I was worried we'd have another case of a returning male character getting figuratively demoted or done away with to make way for a new female lead replacement.

Thankfully, that doesn't happen, and it comes off a lot as Danny as you'd picture him in his adult years, eventually working together with Abra, the new female with a remarkably strong Shine, to deal with a new threat. I think Abra's actress did pretty well considering they had to measure up to McGregor's stature. The two play off each other well, I guess the only notable complaint I have in this regard is Abra becoming something of *too* much of a badass towards the 3rd act.

She always had a bit of snark even as a little kid (guess you could call it overt enthusiasm and self-confidence being read that way on my part :/), and given what she goes through in the film I'd expect her to toughen up, but for a certain major tragedy that happens to one of her parents in particular, I'd of thought she'd be more shook for a longer period of time than she was, and it would've been nice is Danny were to be the one needing to get her out of that head-space so they could deal with the final threat.

5: Right...so this is now gonna get into the 3rd act. Now, I know a lot of people are going to get SOOO MUCH out of this act, but for me, it was the weakest of the three. Part of the reason is because by this point I had already resigned to seeing Doctor Sleep as being "spiritually similar" to The Shining (again, the movie; I haven't read the books for either film...yet). I saw it more as something in spirit to a late '70's/early '80s Cronenberg film with Shining influences, characters and lore, and was perfectly happy with that.

However, the 3rd act goes full-tilt with references to The Shining, and IMHO, most of them are the kind of references that are the grating "wink wink, nudge nudge" type. A lot of visual references to events in the hotel (the twins, the river of blood, Room 237, the typewriter etc.) are in this act and look cool (and ARE cool) in and of themselves on the surface, but if you really think about it...what are they adding to Doctor Sleep's story? Other than nostalgic callouts? When you have characters specific to this movie seeing those things as we do, and then smirk about it, almost as if doing so to the camera in that "that's pretty neat, isn't it?" kind of way, it just feels a bit shallow.

I could've done without that, and what's odd is that there's yet ANOTHER nostalgic reference in this same act that manages to be transformative and ADDS to Doctor Sleep's narrative. So I don't quite understand why the others don't reach that level when this specific one (you'll know it when you see it) does, and acts as a great characterization moment for Danny in particular. If the others had done this, then I would've enjoyed the 3rd act more, and would have been able to more readily accept its shift in being more or a literal build-upon of Kubrick's movie even if I had been conditioned to see it as more in vein of a work like Scanners from the first two acts.

...............................

Besides such, that's really all I have in terms of nitpicks. There's a bit of questioning I could do about the titular villain's supposedly superhuman strength in the 3rd act when they fight Danny, but that can probably be rationalized by multiple things (their "absorbing" souls as energy right before that act, Danny likely in a somewhat weakened state since he's rusty from not utilizing his Shine for a long while, the villain's rapid short-term soul ingestion possibly causing a state of them powering up a bit in relation to Danny given it's established they also absorb souls to retain their youthful energy and looks, sort of like vampires etc.), so I won't really bother here.

There's also something that happens with Danny shortly after this fight that I didn't quite like, in that he seemingly ends up "possessed" by the same spirits he had locked into the figurative mental boxes within his mind. I can understand the logic behind how they possess him (they've been locked up for years, they're probably hella pissed off at him), but from Kubrick's film I never got the impression that the spirits could literally possess anyone. Rather, they seemed more like classical evil, i.e working as a way of influence on a target but the target eventually needing to be the one to give in to their own vices and worst tendencies, and let those rise from subconscious suppression to consciously driving their behaviors and actions. This is what we see from Jack in The Shining, and I would've preferred the spirits Danny released from his mind have operated in the same way, perhaps tapping to a recess of bad tendencies (aside from his drinking, which he has to deal with throughout the film and seemingly conquers in the 3rd act).

BUT, aside from that, there's really nothing that I could consider a negative or jarring in this film (well, there IS a line from Danny to Abra near the end that could be taken as a pseudo "girl empowerment" line if you want to read it that way, but it's done enough in reference to the lore itself that it's mainly just quasi-cheesy if not optimistic). However, I do think for those who haven't read the novels and are expecting something like The Shining in terms of being a slow-burn character study into dementia breakdown and psychotic insanity are going to be jarred coming into this, at least for a bit.

If they can come to see the movie on its own terms and have a liking for the other types of films it channels (regarding vibes), then I think they'll get over that jarring and come to really quite like it, even if they are partially annoyed with some of the nostalgic callbacks in the 3rd act like I was. Otherwise, while I still think they'll like the movie overall, they might want to consider Joker if they want something that feels more like a spiritual successor to The Shining, granted something that's arguably less abstract and layered (and doesn't take place in the same universe whatsoever).

That all said, it's still easily one of the best films of the year so far for me, up there with stuff like Joker and Jo Jo Rabbit . And I do consider it a worthy followup to Stanley's classic that feels very respectful towards the original work (and I would assume, the novels) and its characters; you're not getting any unnecessary "subversion of expectations" here or slaps in the face to the original fandom just to make new characters look good. Even the marketing was on-point, insofar as not belittling or attacking fans of the original or the novels just because they may've been a bit hesistant to know what this was all about.

This is how you build upon an established film narrative the right way, and hopefully other works going forward can take some much-needed cues in doing the same. With that said, I feel like it's a logical conclusion to the film's narrative universe and there's not really a need for another sequel AFAIK, but if the talent involved here manage to concoct something spellbinding and captivating, I'm game (y)
Who the fuck has time to read that.

Did you like the movie yes or no
 
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kunonabi

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I felt the same about the book. The movie is much, much better.

My only gripe: Rose gets her ass kicked far too often by Abra. She didn't feel threatening at all.
Was it like that in the book? It's been a looooong time since I read it but that's totally something I could see being changed for their "new and improved" take on Abra.
 

DKehoe

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So what are the chances of the Dark Tower references being intact in this?
I haven't read the Doctor Sleep book so don't know what references are in that. But I have seen the film. If you want to know...

There's a few in there. Including a character saying "Ka is a wheel"
 
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Dacon

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I haven't read the Doctor Sleep book so don't know what references are in that. But I have seen the film. If you want to know...

There's a few in there. Including a character saying "Ka is a wheel"
Sad that this makes me happier than the actual Dark Tower film.
 

sol_bad

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Seems like it won't do too well at the box office. Warner should have learnt from Joker and tried calling it X-Men or some other psychi related comic.
LMAO

I haven't seen it yet, hopefully I can see this and Midway tomorrow or Tuesday.
 
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SeriousCow

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Was it like that in the book? It's been a looooong time since I read it but that's totally something I could see being changed for their "new and improved" take on Abra.
Been a while for me too, I don't remember it happening often in the book but I might be wrong. The whole "trick" with the shooters in the forest and Abra projecting herself to set up a trap didn't happen IIRC. The True Knot slowly died off/were weakened by absorbing a kid with measles.
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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Early ads seemed to make a point to let people know this is The Shining: Part Two (Doctor Sleep) but later ads I saw seemed to remove that and only label it as Doctor Sleep. I wonder if that is something that could hurt/help sales?
 

Merzbear

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Watched Kubrick's The Shining, well made movie but as for as actual content for story in the movie is... Well, it ain't there is it. Big Jack Nicko is obviously great. More interested in how I take Dr. Sleep tomorrow.
 
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Stilton Disco

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I'm honestly surprised just how much I enjoyed it.

I go into any remake or modern sequel to a classic expecting the worst, but this didn't just respect the original, I'd actually go so far as to say it compliments and inhances it.

Also there's a lot of great acting in this. Rose the Hat was a great Villian, who I actually felt I understood and was as equally sympathetic towards and repulsed by, Danny had an amazing story arc and character progression with a lot of great emotional pay offs, and Abra managed to be a child in a movie that I not only didn't hate, but felt like a real, believable kid in that world and situation.

Just aces all around. It was also a nice change to just recast older actors instead of having dodgy cgi overlays. Just made the whole thing much more grounded and believable.

A solid gold 9/10 from me.
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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I'm honestly surprised just how much I enjoyed it.

I go into any remake or modern sequel to a classic expecting the worst, but this didn't just respect the original, I'd actually go so far as to say it compliments and inhances it.

Also there's a lot of great acting in this. Rose the Hat was a great Villian, who I actually felt I understood and was as equally sympathetic towards and repulsed by, Danny had an amazing story arc and character progression with a lot of great emotional pay offs, and Abra managed to be a child in a movie that I not only didn't hate, but felt like a real, believable kid in that world and situation.

Just aces all around. It was also a nice change to just recast older actors instead of having dodgy cgi overlays. Just made the whole thing much more grounded and believable.

A solid gold 9/10 from me.
I’d like to see Flanagan get more King material. Maybe he could make a real Dark Tower movie/series
 
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Manus

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Seeing this Tuesday at the local IMAX didn't want to pay full price for it so I waited for it to be $6.

Pretty hyped since I love all of Flanagan's work.
 
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Doom85

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Great film. I heard both Stephen King and the Kubrick family were happy with the final result (since the director said he wanted to be faithful to King's book but also stay in continuity with the first film which deviated from the first book quite a bit). I was hoping for a few more legit scary moments (the opening did a few really creepy shots of the villains just standing still in the woods) but I was always engaged and wanting to know what happens next. A big part of this is Ewan McGregor, the whole cast is great but Ewan just continues to prove himself to be such a talent.
 

Rest

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Director Mike Flanagan seems to have a pretty solid track record

I haven't seen all his stuff but Gerald's' Game was good, Hush was decent, Haunting of Hill House (tv series) was great IMO.

Haven't seen Oculus or the Ouija movie
Oculus is amazing. Best horror movie I've seen in probably the last ten years.
 

Merzbear

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Just watched it. It was fucking amazing and I rarely comment positively on fiction these days. I think The Shining is a truly lacking experience as I have said before, that film exists in my eyes as a prologue to a meatier, more engaging and engrossing experience. I know it leaves so much left untouched but Doctor Sleep picks up those pieces and handles it so well filling in all the gaps I personally wanted filling.

I don't give a FUCK what anyone says there is no solid way to justify for the audience to figure out how the hotel is an entity of supernatural existence if the film barely even suggests it. In Doctor Sleep though, the film confirms it and further expresses it properly and accordingly.

It didn't hold back on the child brutality when it came to it, I wish the opening scene was paced a bit better, felt a bit rushed to get the point across, other than that it was good.

Danny I think is a character who just exists in the first movie but as he's grown up so have a lot of people since it released. He's a good, relatable character who has tried to overcome and accept his abilities. I think it's such a massive pull to the story to see what that kid from The Shining became and it worked out so well.

I could speak about it more but that would be me going hard on the spoilers, but for Stephen King movies to often shy away from the more radical and crazy things that he writes this movie embraces them and I loved that it did.

Why is no one praising the character Abra? She's a black girl who is intelligent and compassionate, where is the praise? Oh it's not a Disney movie? Okay.

It began in the hotel and it ends in the hotel and while the ending did at first leave me a bit sour it actually comes full circle and makes sense.
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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Just watched it. It was fucking amazing and I rarely comment positively on fiction these days. I think The Shining is a truly lacking experience as I have said before, that film exists in my eyes as a prologue to a meatier, more engaging and engrossing experience. I know it leaves so much left untouched but Doctor Sleep picks up those pieces and handles it so well filling in all the gaps I personally wanted filling.

I don't give a FUCK what anyone says there is no solid way to justify for the audience to figure out how the hotel is an entity of supernatural existence if the film barely even suggests it. In Doctor Sleep though, the film confirms it and further expresses it properly and accordingly.

It didn't hold back on the child brutality when it came to it, I wish the opening scene was paced a bit better, felt a bit rushed to get the point across, other than that it was good.

Danny I think is a character who just exists in the first movie but as he's grown up so have a lot of people since it released. He's a good, relatable character who has tried to overcome and accept his abilities. I think it's such a massive pull to the story to see what that kid from The Shining became and it worked out so well.

I could speak about it more but that would be me going hard on the spoilers, but for Stephen King movies to often shy away from the more radical and crazy things that he writes this movie embraces them and I loved that it did.

Why is no one praising the character Abra? She's a black girl who is intelligent and compassionate, where is the praise? Oh it's not a Disney movie? Okay.

It began in the hotel and it ends in the hotel and while the ending did at first leave me a bit sour it actually comes full circle and makes sense.
amen, brother
 

Merzbear

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I won't lie bro when this film first came to my attention I didn't have any interest but now finding out this film might not make any money is actually insulting. You get a true hardcore experience of a non-gimped Stephen King story and the mass audiences can't handle it. Ridiculous. It deserves better.
 
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gatti-man

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The movie was long and I hate to say it but pretty boring. The first half was gripping but when they go to the hotel after the climax of the forest scene it just all fell apart for me. 6/10 and I love the shining movie. I think a lot of my issues is 1 I was very hyped and 2 I expected an actual thriller/scary moments
 
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Tesseract

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Just watched it. It was fucking amazing and I rarely comment positively on fiction these days. I think The Shining is a truly lacking experience as I have said before, that film exists in my eyes as a prologue to a meatier, more engaging and engrossing experience. I know it leaves so much left untouched but Doctor Sleep picks up those pieces and handles it so well filling in all the gaps I personally wanted filling.

I don't give a FUCK what anyone says there is no solid way to justify for the audience to figure out how the hotel is an entity of supernatural existence if the film barely even suggests it. In Doctor Sleep though, the film confirms it and further expresses it properly and accordingly.

It didn't hold back on the child brutality when it came to it, I wish the opening scene was paced a bit better, felt a bit rushed to get the point across, other than that it was good.

Danny I think is a character who just exists in the first movie but as he's grown up so have a lot of people since it released. He's a good, relatable character who has tried to overcome and accept his abilities. I think it's such a massive pull to the story to see what that kid from The Shining became and it worked out so well.

I could speak about it more but that would be me going hard on the spoilers, but for Stephen King movies to often shy away from the more radical and crazy things that he writes this movie embraces them and I loved that it did.

Why is no one praising the character Abra? She's a black girl who is intelligent and compassionate, where is the praise? Oh it's not a Disney movie? Okay.

It began in the hotel and it ends in the hotel and while the ending did at first leave me a bit sour it actually comes full circle and makes sense.
can only echo these thoughts, i absolutely love it
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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The movie was long and I hate to say it but pretty boring. The first half was gripping but when they go to the hotel after the climax of the forest scene it just all fell apart for me. 6/10 and I love the shining movie. I think a lot of my issues is 1 I was very hyped and 2 I expected an actual thriller/scary moments
Did you find The Shining boring at points as well? (Honest question, not being snarky)
 

gatti-man

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Did you find The Shining boring at points as well? (Honest question, not being snarky)
Not really. Maybe at the very beginning. The shining builds excellent dread and suspense. This film doesn’t do that at all for me. It’s more of a semi action drama with a horror backdrop. The problem is nothing is scary and the villains all seem detached and without motive.
I was also disappointed with the house and what happened there. It just didn’t feel authentic. Or that scenes were cut.
 

sol_bad

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This movie was so damn good. I was glued to the screen for the whole run time and was not bored at any point.
Obi-Wan was great in this and the young actor was also great. I had no idea she was even going to be a main character. I honestly had no idea what this film was even going to be about, I kept my trailer watching to a minimum so I could go in not knowing anything.

What Chunk said above about acts 1 and 2 being book sequel and act 3 being movie sequel makes sense because the original movie never really discussed the shinning powers from what I remember.

The recreation of the hotel was great and seeing the blood hallway still sends chills down my back. Scared the shit out of me as a kid.

Also, can someone please confirm for me
The woman that Obi-Wan woke up next to at the start with the vomit. Was she dead? And then the vision he had later was of that woman and the child? Ad is that the debt that he owes that the ghost man mentioned?
 

Chunk Loves Sloth

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The woman that Obi-Wan woke up next to at the start with the vomit. Was she dead? And then the vision he had later was of that woman and the child? Ad is that the debt that he owes that the ghost man mentioned?
She’s not dead in the beginning. In the book he has a long internal struggle whether or not to take the money. The decision haunts him and when she and her son die weeks/some time later, he has visions of them, like shown once in the movie.

thats what I remember anyway, I could be off