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[lightskintwin]

Interesting topic on the current lack of Asian American representation in Asian centric Hollywood films.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/07/scott-derrickson-whitewashing-comic-con.html

Though the crowd at Marvel’s much-anticipated Comic-Con Hall H panel was understandably amped up by the unveiling of Doctor Strange teaser footage and a mind-bending new trailer, a spectre still haunts the studio’s fall-superhero outing: the whitewashing controversy. Tilda Swinton will play the Ancient One, a character who, in the comic-book source material, is traditionally Asian in ethnicity. The move has incensed some critics, and in response, director Scott Derrickson tweeted in May, “I am listening and learning.” So what has he heard and learned? I asked him after the panel.

His response, in full:

I think that what I’ve come to really empathize with is the idea that there’s a group of people, Asian-Americans in this country, who didn’t grow up watching movies [and] seeing themselves on the screen, and if they did, it was usually a stereotype. I feel tremendous empathy for that because of what movies meant to me, growing up. I grew up as a white kid in north Denver, watching movies every weekend. It was the highlight of my life. For a lot of us here at Comic-Con, movies are our life, and I can’t imagine what it’s like to grow up and not see yourself, not see your face up there in the lead characters. It’s a serious subject. It’s gotta change, the way that Asian-Americans are represented in cinema has to change.

Relevant video:
DOCTOR STRANGE! WHITE WASHING!

 

[Tagyhag]

It's nice that someone is talking about it at least.

I feel like hispanics shouldn't be left behind as well.

 

[Guevara]

Listening and learning but still casting the normal stars. OK.

 

[Black Republican]

uh huh, after most of the production was done and not before


uh huh

 

[HStallion]

Its gotta change... but not with my Marvel film! Hey at least we got Black Panther without a funny white guy sidekick for BP though Rob Schneider would have been a great choice!

 

[Slayven]

Its gotta change... but not with my Marvel film! Hey at least we got Black Panther without a funny white guy sidekick for BP though Rob Schneider would have been a great choice!

No one tell you about Everett Ross?

 

[fallengorn]

Listening and learning but still casting the normal stars. OK.

The movie is in the can, they're not going to scrap it to reshoot. Hopefully, he keeps this in mind going forward, not just for Marvel, but for whatever he does.

 

[Real Hero]

it's just words

 

[DarknessTear]

it's just words

For now, but thinking and talking about these things will hopefully lead to people making a difference. This movie is already far too long to make a change, but I really feel optimistic when people start really raising these questions.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Listening and learning but still casting the normal stars. OK.

Don't think he was the deciding factor in casting actors

 

[Jeffrey]

Was wondering this too after watching Star Trek beyond, where for some reason Sulu is the only main cast without any real arc or role.


It's sad the only notable hollywood film with notable asian people is... the new XXX movie with white man vin diesel beating up tony jaa and donnie yen.

 

[Saya]

He had the chance to do something about it, but he didn't do it.

 

[mjc]

He had the chance to do something about it, but he didn't do it.

If you think he alone had the power to change it, you've got another thing coming.

 

[TKR92]

Seriously? Tremendous empathy?

What a joke.

 

[Aureon]

Good on him.
And for those "But he casted white stars!" - This is a massive franchise, those decisions are above his paygrade.

 

[Abounder]

Nice gesture but yea talk is cheap. Shame the Mahvel powers that be don't follow Lucasfilm's Kathleen Kennedy, Star Wars is way ahead of the curve when it comes to female or Asian leads so far lol. Oh well.

 

[guek]

Do better.

 

[bobbychalkers]

Its gotta change... but not with my Marvel film! Hey at least we got Black Panther without a funny white guy sidekick for BP though Rob Schneider would have been a great choice!

err....

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Won't someone please think of BronsonLee?

 

[Kalentan]

They need to do better although I will at least give them credit for not making Wong the manservant he usually is but as Benedict Wong described him: "more of a drill sergeant..." Which is a step, not the amount needed but it is a step.

Won't someone please think of BronsonLee?

BronsonLee probably makes fan movies at home where he plays every character.

 

[kswiston]

Don't think he was the deciding factor in casting actors

I think that people believe that Directors have total control over the production of a film.



Unless that director is Joss Whedon. Then its all about craft services.

 

[OSHAN]

I haven't seen it but I read the new Star Trek is a step in the right direction.

 

[DrunkShogun]

Every race other than black actors are treated in any positive light. I haven't seen a film in which a south Asian actor character doesn't have his nationality mentioned during the film. I will consider it a success when an Asian actor has a prominent role that isn't based on his/her culture.

 

[What did he mean by this?]

I feel bad for him since he's just a cog director in the MCU assembly line. Feige is responsible

 

[neorej]

Somebody, please explain, because I don't understand, honestly.

The Ancient One in the comics is an Asian male monk who passes down his wisdom to a white foreigner. A trope we've seen over and over again down to the point of being stereotypical.

So to switch things up a bit, Marvel casts Tilda Swinton, an androgynous woman, as the Ancient One, deliberatly not discussing the gender of the Ancient One, because it has no bearing on the character, in order to steer away from the stereotype of ancient Asian monk.

On top of that, the roles of the other monks are enlarged compared to what they are in the comics; from servants to full-fledged monks who will most likely fight side-by-side with Strange, from what I understand.

So there's the removal of a stereotype that was in the comics, the minorities of the comics get a more equal role to that of Strange, and there's the added gender equality.

So could someone please explain to me how this push for more diversity and equality is a negative thing?

 

[pa22word]

I know nothing about the movie, but is the Ancient One going to be the antagonist of the film? If so I highly doubt this was had anything to do with him and more to do with disney appeasing Chinese censors. Same thing happened with the Mandarin in IM3, right?

 

[dave is ok]

They couldn't cast an actual Tibetan as the Tibetan character without losing millions of dollars. Blame China for that.

 

[massoluk]

Marvel movies record with Asian characters

The Jackie chan guy in Thor
The China pandering cameos in Iron Man 2 and Avengers; AoU
The badass Mandarin... Ben Kingsley

/smh

They couldn't cast an actual Tibetan as the Tibetan character without losing millions of dollars. Blame China for that.

No I wont. I firmly believed China doesn't care as long as you don't go political.

 

[kswiston]

I know nothing about the movie, but is the Ancient One going to be the antagonist of the film? If so I highly doubt this was had anything to do with him and more to do with disney appeasing Chinese censors. Same thing happened with the Mandarin in IM3, right?

The Ancient one was one of those old Asian mystic on the mountain stereotypes.

 

[Kinyou]

I know nothing about the movie, but is the Ancient One going to be the antagonist of the film? If so I highly doubt this was had anything to do with him and more to do with disney appeasing Chinese censors. Same thing happened with the Mandarin in IM3, right?

Afaik is the ancient one with the good guys. However might a possibke worry have been that an ancient monk with mystical powers living in Tibet might be too close to the Dalai Lama, someone who China wouldn't want to be cast in any positive light.

 

[Abounder]

Mahvel is a film studio that is more racist and sexist than even the average Hollywood operation. Think about it: what other studio makes 17+ consecutive movies where the lead is a white dude, and they started in the 2000's to boot. Even Scarjo takes a backseat despite being a bigger draw than nearly anyone else but RDJ.

 

[harSon]

Funny how these moments of empathy are always felt after you completely fucked over a group of people, and then continue to persist thereafter.

They couldn't cast an actual Tibetan as the Tibetan character without losing millions of dollars. Blame China for that.

And of course the natural progression is to a white woman.

 

[lightskintwin]

Somebody, please explain, because I don't understand, honestly.

The Ancient One in the comics is an Asian male monk who passes down his wisdom to a white foreigner. A trope we've seen over and over again down to the point of being stereotypical.

So to switch things up a bit, Marvel casts Tilda Swinton, an androgynous woman, as the Ancient One, deliberatly not discussing the gender of the Ancient One, because it has no bearing on the character, in order to steer away from the stereotype of ancient Asian monk.

On top of that, the roles of the other monks are enlarged compared to what they are in the comics; from servants to full-fledged monks who will most likely fight side-by-side with Strange, from what I understand.

So there's the removal of a stereotype that was in the comics, the minorities of the comics get a more equal role to that of Strange, and there's the added gender equality.

So could someone please explain to me how this push for more diversity and equality is a negative thing?

You don't see the underlying issue with a white man traveling to asia to learn a fictitious asian inspired mystical arts from a white woman?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

You know the love interest in that movie will be the lightest person around. Since dark skin women are a taboo most of the time.

Lupita N'yongo has been confirmed for love interest.

 

[kswiston]

Mahvel is a film studio that is more racist and sexist than even the average Hollywood operation. Think about it: what other studio makes 17+ consecutive movies where the lead is a white dude, and they started in the 2000's to boot.

James Bond.

 

[Salty Rice]

The second i saw the thread i knew the responses in here would be hyperbole.

 

[El Topo]

They couldn't cast an actual Tibetan as the Tibetan character without losing millions of dollars. Blame China for that.

So all Asians were off the table or just Tibetans?

Mahvel is a film studio that is more racist and sexist than even the average Hollywood operation. Think about it: what other studio makes 17+ consecutive movies where the lead is a white dude, and they started in the 2000's to boot. Even Scarjo takes a backseat despite being a bigger draw than nearly anyone else but RDJ.

I've criticized Marvel a lot, but I'm not sure if they're really worse than other studios, although I doubt they've been better either. That said, they seem anxious to improve diversity for their upcoming movies. We'll see.
I would love to see a statistical analysis on gender and ethnicity in Marvel movies though.

 

[tkscz]

Somebody, please explain, because I don't understand, honestly.

The Ancient One in the comics is an Asian male monk who passes down his wisdom to a white foreigner. A trope we've seen over and over again down to the point of being stereotypical.

So to switch things up a bit, Marvel casts Tilda Swinton, an androgynous woman, as the Ancient One, deliberatly not discussing the gender of the Ancient One, because it has no bearing on the character, in order to steer away from the stereotype of ancient Asian monk.

On top of that, the roles of the other monks are enlarged compared to what they are in the comics; from servants to full-fledged monks who will most likely fight side-by-side with Strange, from what I understand.

So there's the removal of a stereotype that was in the comics, the minorities of the comics get a more equal role to that of Strange, and there's the added gender equality.

So could someone please explain to me how this push for more diversity and equality is a negative thing?

Strange himself is not Asian nor Asian-American. The stereotype of the White person being taught to be the best of the best by the Asian person (not asian in this case but still) is seen by some as the white person was always better than the asian person. It's less to do with the ancient one, as it was damned if you do and damned if you don't and more to do with strange. Same goes with Iron Fist. Honestly, I'm on the side of stick with the comics for main characters, but I can understand where the side of change the characters race for representation comes from.

 

[Messofanego]

Funny how these moments of empathy are always felt after you completely fucked over a group of people, and then continue to persist thereafter.

Then you gotta wait a couple of years before you can figure out if they learned from their mistake or continued it because people forgot about it.

 

[BronsonLee]

Won't someone please think of BronsonLee?

YEAH

Why can't I be The Ancient One instead of an actress who's literally made her career on morphing the fuck out of herself

BronsonLee probably makes fan movies at home where he plays every character.

...I should start doing that

 

[dave is ok]

So all Asians were off the table or just Tibetans?

Who knows. They might have wanted to avoid a 'Memoirs of a Geisha' type situation, they might have just had a great actress in mind.

 

[lenos16]

Somebody, please explain, because I don't understand, honestly.

The Ancient One in the comics is an Asian male monk who passes down his wisdom to a white foreigner. A trope we've seen over and over again down to the point of being stereotypical.

So to switch things up a bit, Marvel casts Tilda Swinton, an androgynous woman, as the Ancient One, deliberatly not discussing the gender of the Ancient One, because it has no bearing on the character, in order to steer away from the stereotype of ancient Asian monk.

On top of that, the roles of the other monks are enlarged compared to what they are in the comics; from servants to full-fledged monks who will most likely fight side-by-side with Strange, from what I understand.

So there's the removal of a stereotype that was in the comics, the minorities of the comics get a more equal role to that of Strange, and there's the added gender equality.

So could someone please explain to me how this push for more diversity and equality is a negative thing?

They wanted an Asian Strange basically. Which I find totally hilarious even though I'm Asian myself. Now a Shang-Chi Movie on the other would have been really cool.

 

[El Topo]

Who knows. They might have wanted to avoid a 'Memoirs of a Geisha' type situation, they might have just had a great actress in mind.

I'm just trying to point out that using the Tibetan situation as an excuse to cast a white person doesn't really work. It's not a carte blanche. It's great to see Tilda Swinton in MCU of course, fantastic actress.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

Somebody, please explain, because I don't understand, honestly.

The Ancient One in the comics is an Asian male monk who passes down his wisdom to a white foreigner. A trope we've seen over and over again down to the point of being stereotypical.

So to switch things up a bit, Marvel casts Tilda Swinton, an androgynous woman, as the Ancient One, deliberatly not discussing the gender of the Ancient One, because it has no bearing on the character, in order to steer away from the stereotype of ancient Asian monk.

On top of that, the roles of the other monks are enlarged compared to what they are in the comics; from servants to full-fledged monks who will most likely fight side-by-side with Strange, from what I understand.

So there's the removal of a stereotype that was in the comics, the minorities of the comics get a more equal role to that of Strange, and there's the added gender equality.

So could someone please explain to me how this push for more diversity and equality is a negative thing?

I think you opened a can of worms over what's more diverse, a white woman or an Asian male?

 

[What did he mean by this?]

They are 'protecting' Asians from a stereotypical role and Asian actors from a job

Same thing as Mandarin and Iron Fist

 

[BronsonLee]

I'm just trying to point out that using the Tibetan situation as an excuse to cast a white person doesn't really work. It's not a carte blanche. It's great to see Tilda Swinton in MCU of course, fantastic actress.

Yeah that excuse is stupid

Just say you wanted Tilda, cause that's clearly what went down

They are 'protecting' Asians from a stereotypical role and Asian actors from a job

Same thing as Mandarin and Iron Fist

Mandarin was stupid as fuck and Iron Fist is white, b

 

[Abounder]

James Bond.

Precisely.

I've criticized Marvel a lot, but I'm not sure if they're really worse than other studios, although I doubt they've been better either. That said, they seem anxious to improve diversity for their upcoming movies. We'll see.
I would love to see a statistical analysis on gender and ethnicity in Marvel movies though.

They're making 17 consecutive movies with white dudes leading the way despite having stars like Scarjo. Black Panther and Captain Marvel should help break that though.

 

[milkham]

They wanted an Asian Strange basically. Which I find totally hilarious even though I'm Asian myself. Now a Shang-Chi Movie on the other would have been really cool.

The closest I've seen to anyone saying they wanted an Asian strange is people saying the comic version looked like he was originally Asian (slits for eyes etc). This is about white washing the ancient one.

 

[darkhunger]

They wanted an Asian Strange basically. Which I find totally hilarious even though I'm Asian myself. Now a Shang-Chi Movie on the other would have been really cool.

Don't think that was ever the case - think you may be confusing this with Iron Fist?

This was more about "yet another whitewashing in Hollywood" and "cultural appropriation" than anything.

Marvel was stuck at a tough spot here for sure. Basically a no-win situation.

I think you opened a can of worms over what's more diverse, a white woman or an Asian male?

From the Hollywood standpoint? Definitely Asian male.

 

[HStallion]

You know the love interest in that movie will be the lightest person around. Since dark skin women are a taboo most of the time.

Isn't it Lupita?

No one tell you about Everett Ross?

err....

Wait is he basically the out of his element white guy that will be tagging around with BP? I actually didn't know about him in the movie. I figured we'd get Andy Serkis as Klaw but I hope this dude is limited in his appearance in the film or its gonna start to feel like Hell Boy all over again.