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[MadLaughter]

Can't go Tibetan because that completely alienates the most populated country in the world. (Which sucks, but it is what it is)

Can't go with a different Asian because some would accuse them of thinking 'all Asians are the same'

Other races not great choices because then you are taking away one of the few prominent Asian roles

But at the end of the day, they cast someone who is highly talented, possesses a unique, almost other-worldly look, and seemingly changed the story to designate 'The Ancient One' as a title.

Also there was a scene showed at SDCC where there was an old Asian guy that Strange thought was the Ancient One, which played as if he was kind of stereotyping.

 

[Fuu]

I've criticized Marvel a lot, but I'm not sure if they're really worse than other studios, although I doubt they've been better either. That said, they seem anxious to improve diversity for their upcoming movies. We'll see.
I would love to see a statistical analysis on gender and ethnicity in Marvel movies though.

Yeah, this particular controversy aside they've been noticeably trying. Baby steps and all, but I liked how diverse the latest cast pics looked.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I really think this was a damned if they do, damned if they dont situation.

• Go with Asian: Get called out for ancient mystic Asian stereotype
• Go with white person: Get called out for white washing
• Go with black person: Get dangerously close to a literal magic negro stereotype
• Go with any other race: Get called out for mystical foreigner teaching white guy to become the best of them

The only way I could have seen them navigating around this one was to go with an Ancient One that was neither Asian nor white, and a Dr Strange that wasn't white. In the end, I really don't see how they could have made the Ancient One Asian without getting just as much shit for it.

 

[HStallion]

All I'm seeing here is that Tilda Swinton should be playing David Bowie in a Biopic.

 

[Broken Joystick]

Yeah, this particular controversy aside they've been noticeably trying. Baby steps and all, but I liked how the cast pics from the SDCC looked fairly diverse.

Yeah, they're doing a bit better.

 

[MHWilliams]

Somebody, please explain, because I don't understand, honestly.

The Ancient One in the comics is an Asian male monk who passes down his wisdom to a white foreigner. A trope we've seen over and over again down to the point of being stereotypical.

So to switch things up a bit, Marvel casts Tilda Swinton, an androgynous woman, as the Ancient One, deliberatly not discussing the gender of the Ancient One, because it has no bearing on the character, in order to steer away from the stereotype of ancient Asian monk.

On top of that, the roles of the other monks are enlarged compared to what they are in the comics; from servants to full-fledged monks who will most likely fight side-by-side with Strange, from what I understand.

So there's the removal of a stereotype that was in the comics, the minorities of the comics get a more equal role to that of Strange, and there's the added gender equality.

So could someone please explain to me how this push for more diversity and equality is a negative thing?

Do you think you'll be able to name one of the monk, outside of Wong?

Essentially, you have a whole quasi-Asian mysticism thing going on and none of the best practitioners are Asian. The Ancient One is white, Mordo is black, and Kaecilius is European.

And Wong, despite the work done to the character over recent years, is largely thought of as a sidekick, if he gets any shine at all.

More diversity is cool. It's also cool for Asian-Americans to want a bit more representation.

So why is that a negative thing?

They wanted an Asian Strange basically. Which I find totally hilarious even though I'm Asian myself. Now a Shang-Chi Movie on the other would have been really cool.

You'll be waiting a long time on a Shang Chi movie. We can't even get a Netflix series. Maybe he'll get a shot on Agents of Shield!

 

[Kalentan]

And Wong, despite the work done to the character over recent years, is largely thought of as a sidekick, if he gets any shine at all.

To be fair... Benedict Wong said his character isn't a manservant but more or less Strange's Drill Sargent. Which puts him, at least at the start, above Strange. Unlikely they will make him a side-kick of manservant.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Wait is he basically the out of his element white guy that will be tagging around with BP? I actually didn't know about him in the movie. I figured we'd get Andy Serkis as Klaw but I hope this dude is limited in his appearance in the film or its gonna start to feel like Hell Boy all over again.

Yeah. He wets himself a lot and once got to be acting ruler of Wakanda. It's going to be GREAT.

 

[HStallion]

Yeah. He wets himself a lot and once got to be acting ruler of Wakanda. It's going to be GREAT.

He pisses his pants a lot? That's one of his defining character traits? Yeesh...

 

[Mesoian]

I'm rolling my eyes so hard I look like Boa fucking Handcock.

"Yeah, it really must suck to never see yourself in popular media huh? I don't know that feeling, I got to run with my ideals and fantasies because everything I watched consistantly told me I could be whatever I wanted. But yeah, I empathize with you!"

Fuck off.

Fuck you.

 

[darkhunger]

Can't go Tibetan because that completely alienates the most populated country in the world. (Which sucks, but it is what it is)

That explanation never made much sense, since they most likely weren't even going to mention Tibet in the movie. They filmed the scenes in Kathmandu, Nepal, and the fictional location is Kamar-Taj, which all we know is somewhere in the Himalayas (i.e. Nepal).

 

[BronsonLee]

He pisses his pants a lot? That's one of his defining character traits? Yeesh...

He also loses his pants a lot

Even made a deal with the devil to get a pair!

 

[Divvy]

I'm rolling my eyes so hard I look like Boa fucking Handcock.

"Yeah, it really must suck to never see yourself in popular media huh? I don't know that feeling, I got to run with my ideals and fantasies because everything I watched consistantly told me I could be whatever I wanted. But yeah, I empathize with you!"

Fuck off.

Fuck you.

Wut, that's not what he said at all

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I mean isn't that a basic misunderstanding of what empathy is?

 

[old manatee]

"It’s gotta change, the way that Asian-Americans are represented in cinema has to change."

-director of upcoming whitewashed movie

 

[lenos16]

Don't think that was ever the case - think you may be confusing this with Iron Fist?

This was more about "yet another whitewashing in Hollywood" and "cultural appropriation" than anything.

Marvel was stuck at a tough spot here for sure. Basically a no-win situation.

Ah yeah you are right, I somehow mixed up the two issues.

 

[norm9]

Too late to do anything but at least he's talking about it. That's a start

 

[BorkBork]

Would have been nice to have this realization before the casting and all the justification behind it.

 

[kswiston]

"It’s gotta change, the way that Asian-Americans are represented in cinema has to change."

-director of upcoming whitewashed movie

I dont know if I would go as far as saying it was white washed because one role was changed. Mordo is a white dude in comics.

 

[Divvy]

"It’s gotta change, the way that Asian-Americans are represented in cinema has to change."

-director of upcoming whitewashed movie

Would have been nice to have this realization before the casting and all the justification behind it.

Directors are not in charge of casting

 

[Mesoian]

Wut, that's not what he said at all

It's pretty much exactly what he said.

"Yeah, it sucks and it has to change. But not here. Or the next one, or the one after that. Or in the tie ins and group-up sequels. It's gotta happen, but not in this potentially 50 billion dollar franchise.

We'll get it right next time guys.

Promise.

Pinky swear."

'the fuck outta here.

 

[SchrodingerC]

They are 'protecting' Asians from a stereotypical role and Asian actors from a job

Same thing as Mandarin and Iron Fist

Expect Iron Fist was never Asian and probably wasn't considered while Marvel was casting the role. At least SHIELD has some decent Asian representation.

 

[Line_HTX]

LMAO

Am I supposed to feel better from the director's "empathy" after all of that?

Don't make me laugh.

 

[- J - D -]

I thought Benedict Wong's presence in the comic con trailer was notable enough that it felt like a (Marvel's marketing team's) reaction to the hubbub over Asian representation in this movie over the past few months.

Like empathetic words, a minor, tentative, least-effort steps toward barely trying to solve the problem.

 

[Divvy]

It's pretty much exactly what he said.

"Yeah, it sucks and it has to change. But not here. Or the next one, or the one after that. Or in the tie ins and group-up sequels. It's gotta happen, but not in this potentially 50 billion dollar franchise.

We'll get it right next time guys.

Promise.

Pinky swear."

'the fuck outta here.

No it's not. He said he recognizes the privilege he had growing up, and empathizes with those that never had that in their lives.

As an Asian growing up with this issue, this is far more than anyone usually says about this. It's kind of ridiculous to shit on him for this.

 

[[boots]]

The second i saw the thread i knew the responses in here would be hyperbole.

The second I saw the thread, I knew there'd be a response downplaying the issue.

 

[Salty Rice]

The second I saw the thread, I knew there'd be a response downplaying the issue.

Well where are the people demanding more white guys in asian movies?

 

[Trike]

Funny how these moments of empathy are always felt after you completely fucked over a group of people, and then continue to persist thereafter.

I don't understand what you and people who think similarly want them to do with the movie. The controversy didn't even begin until like a year after she was cast. Not to mention that the casting decision was made specifically because of how China would react to it. Would you rather have them stop production after so much has already been filmed, recast, and reshoot to appease what is most likely a small vocal group who clearly didn't have any vested interest in the film prior? So in addition to spending extra millions of dollars, they would lose out on potentially $100-$150 million more by essentially throwing away a market to appease a comparative handful of people? Not to mention that if they did, they still had a chance of receiving criticism for featuring an Asian actor as a racial stereotype. Also probably reinforcing the idea to not have a more diverse cast due to what would be a direct correlation of casting an Asian actor and losing millions of dollars because of it. Sure, it would be a very specific situation and instance that no one should use a reference as to why they shouldn't cast an Asian actor, but considering how reluctant they are about doing that anyway I am sure they would have no problem using it as a scapegoat. And who could blame them? Seeing as how you and others are using this very specific and somewhat complex situation (at least compared to not casting non-whites due to lack of faith) as an example of typical Hollywood whitewashing.

In the recent years Marvel has made huge efforts to expand the diversity of their cast and characters in their films and comics. I do not see this move as the kind of whitewashing you see in films. But I do agree that Asians are underrepresented in the MCU. Part of that is the lack of X-Men, but the still have other great characters to use. Besides the obvious Shang-Chi, where is Amadeus Cho? Or better yet, Jimmy Woo? I want Agents of Atlas, dammit.

 

[old manatee]

Would have been nice to have this realization before the casting and all the justification behind it.

The movie isn't even out. If they actually cared, for all of their talk, if they actually gave any kind of a shit whatsoever, they could actually do something concrete about it right now.

 

[Line_HTX]

I mean, don't get me wrong. I can't wait for Cumberbatch Strange.

But don't go patronizing to me after post production because his words sound really hollow.

 

[Brianimaniac]

Is Bautista playing Mr. Fantastic?

 

[darkhunger]

Tilda Swinton is great casting as the Ancient One and its not like there arent any asian actors in the movie.

Basically what they used to say about the token black character in movies.

 

[Kinyou]

The movie isn't even out. If they actually cared, for all of their talk, if they actually gave any kind of a shit whatsoever, they could actually do something concrete about it right now.

Afaik is the filming done. The actors likely have already moved on to other projects.

 

[Htown]

You'll be waiting a long time on a Shang Chi movie. We can't even get a Netflix series. Maybe he'll get a shot on Agents of Shield!

I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't show up in Iron Fist at some point.

A bigger problem is that Asian superheroes in general are few and far between. In Marvel you've got Shang-Chi, a couple of X-Men, Amadeus Cho, and then you're basically into C/D listers like Jimmy Woo. DC is possibly even worse.

 

[old manatee]

It's pretty much exactly what he said.

"Yeah, it sucks and it has to change. But not here. Or the next one, or the one after that. Or in the tie ins and group-up sequels. It's gotta happen, but not in this potentially 50 billion dollar franchise.

We'll get it right next time guys.

Promise.

Pinky swear."

'the fuck outta here.

Yeah, we just have to wait until they reboot their entire Cinematic Universe. No big whoop.

 

[Line_HTX]

I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't show up in Iron Fist at some point.

A bigger problem is that Asian superheroes in general are few and far between. In Marvel you've got Shang-Chi, a couple of X-Men, Amadeus Cho, and then you're basically into C/D listers like Jimmy Woo. DC is possibly even worse.

Which DC heroes are those? I don't think I ever heard them before, lol

 

[BronsonLee]

I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't show up in Iron Fist at some point.

A bigger problem is that Asian superheroes in general are few and far between. In Marvel you've got Shang-Chi, a couple of X-Men, Amadeus Cho, and then you're basically into C/D listers like Jimmy Woo. DC is possibly even worse.

That's the actual issue which people should be addressing. Marvel's going with their more popular superheroes with a few exceptions - the ones that have like 50+ years of backstory. They're all white.

 

[BorkBork]

The movie isn't even out. If they actually cared, for all of their talk, if they actually gave any kind of a shit whatsoever, they could actually do something concrete about it right now.

But they won't, so it's hard to stomach this form of placating right now. It's almost worse because the sentiment is there, but the action isn't.

 

[lenos16]

I'd be pretty surprised if he didn't show up in Iron Fist at some point.

A bigger problem is that Asian superheroes in general are few and far between. In Marvel you've got Shang-Chi, a couple of X-Men, Amadeus Cho, and then you're basically into C/D listers like Jimmy Woo. DC is possibly even worse.

I would argue that Shang-Chi and Amadeus Cho are more than enough for a start no? Both are well fleshed out characters who could hold a movie if they cast competent actors.

 

[Fuu]

Yeah, they're doing a bit better.

Since the thread is about asian actors, here's nother version with Pom Klementieff (Korean mother and French-Russian father):

 

[CloudWolf]

Yeah, well, it's not like the director has much to say when it comes to Marvel films.

 

[BronsonLee]

I would argue that Shang-Chi and Amadeus Cho are more than enough for a start no? Both are well fleshed out characters who could hold a movie if they cast competent actors.

That'd be an argument you probably wouldn't win

 

[NimbusD]

uh huh, after most of the production was done and not before


uh huh

I mean, its something, no? What's the point in ragging on someone who's realized the errors of their ways after the fact? It's pretty clear that he wasn't truly challenged on his views until after casting and production happened.

Though whether he's truly realized it won't be known until we see it. And if it's not for real, then of course, fuck him.

 

[Salty Rice]

Basically what they used to say about the token black character in movies.

So a asian Ancient One wouldnt be a just asian stereotype character?

 

[Zukuu]

Listening and learning but still casting the normal stars. OK.

Was there any other than Tilda Swinton?

 

[AlteredBeast]

Was wondering this too after watching Star Trek beyond, where for some reason Sulu is the only main cast without any real arc or role.


It's sad the only notable hollywood film with notable asian people is... the new XXX movie with white man vin diesel beating up tony jaa and donnie yen.

Vid Diesel isn't white...

 

[Mesoian]

Yeah, we just have to wait until they reboot their entire Cinematic Universe. No big whoop.

Yup. See you after the GITS and Akira reboots. 2070 is going to be the point where we fix the problem.

 

[lenos16]

That'd be an argument you probably wouldn't win

You have to start somewhere....

 

[darkhunger]

So a asian Ancient One wouldnt be a just asian stereotype character?

The point, which is in response to your comment that, "its not like there arent any asian actors in the movie", is that there is ONE named Asian character in the movie right now. One issue with whitewashing is not just the social implications, but the fact that an important headlining role for the movie has been taken away from an Asian actor, in a job market that already has a dearth of such roles.

And the thing about stereotypes is that you actually don't have to write them into your script.

 

[Salty Rice]

And the thing about stereotypes is that you actually don't have to write them into your script.

But its a adaption of already existing character.

Asian mentor who is all wise and all mighty trains a foreigner is always gonna be stereotypical and cliche no matter how much you write around it in the script.