Unspeakable Evil
Member
Katana is gonna be in Suicide Squad.
DC did just introduce a Chinese Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman...
Let's hope they're not going with Chinese bootleg joke..
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Doctor Strange Director Feels Tremendous Empathy for Asian-American Audiences
- Thread starter lightskintwin
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DC did just introduce a Chinese Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman...
Let's hope they're not going with Chinese bootleg joke..
MHWilliams
Member
Here's the problem.
Marvel works on a popularity tier list.
You're not getting those characters anytime soon in a major starring role.
There's two fixes for the problem:
1) Marvel digs deeper, instead of following the priority list
2) Or you race-switch
Marvel has largely decided the name is more important. So, given that, you have people asking for an Asian Iron Fist or what have you. This is a situation studios and companies have created, not the other way around. There's two fixes for a structural issue. In the films, they chose one. People are reacting to that.
Genuine question I've been mulling over while reading the discussion in this thread:
Was the casting decision revolving around Ken Wantabe's character in Batman Begins worthy of any similar controversy...especially in regards to how it eventually lead to the subversion of the enduring "Mountain mystic" Asian stereotype or in terms of the way Wantabe was sidelined in that film in favour of a white actor?
Was the casting decision revolving around Ken Wantabe's character in Batman Begins worthy of any similar controversy...especially in regards to how it eventually lead to the subversion of the enduring "Mountain mystic" Asian stereotype or in terms of the way Wantabe was sidelined in that film in favour of a white actor?
And does Katana do anything more after Suicide Squad?
Agents of Atlas werent all that far below Guardians of the Galaxy until Marvel started pushing the brand leading into the movie. It's not strictly priority.
An easy solution would be an adaptation of the Runaways. It was a moderately popular title, with a good variety of roles/characters.
What do you expect from the film branch of a company that has banked on white superhero fantasies for the last 40+ years?
lightskintwin
Banned
Watch the video "DOCTOR STRANGE! WHITEWASHING!" I put at the bottom of my original thread post.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
I'm no expert on Katana but in the comics she's mostly know for being on the Outsiders and associated with Birds of Prey.
They are getting better, but in three out of four of those upcoming movies, it sticks out to me that there's a white guy at the center of everything going on. I'm not strongly for or against race bending in cases where it's a white guy, but it does bother me that people put up such a fight for characters for which their race is not pivotal. I don't think there's anything inherently white about characters like Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, or Star Lord.
There's nothing wrong with the "old sage living in the mountains" trope; it's actually quite frequent in Asian media itself (and throughout stories told by various cultures since stories were first a thing). What I take issue with is that in Western media, the old sage isn't so much a character as much as a prop for the white hero to get powers. Given a choice between being represented as a prop versus not represented at all, however, I'd choose the former.
darkhunger
Member
So is Wong. They can change it up.
I think counting the sequels confuses the issue. Films that gross $650M+ worldwide are going to get followups. All of those films have existing lead characters.
Their next 3 new series are Strange, Black Panther, and Cap Marvel. Even Spider-man looks to have more diverse casting than the last two iterations. The Raimi films might as well have been cast in the NYC pictured in the FRIENDS universe.
That is exactly the storyline. They are Chinese copies of American heroes.
KarneeKarnay
Member
I thought a lot of the issue people had was one character in particular being white. While I agree that there is a problem with white whashing, this instance may not have been that.
Marvel execs want the most money for their movies and one of the largest audiences in the world is Chinese. Casting an Asian actor to play a Tibetan may have got them in trouble with the censors over there. Is this morally correct?
...Not really...They still could have made a stand about it, but the execs might have just replaced the director and got the film done regardless.
Marvel execs want the most money for their movies and one of the largest audiences in the world is Chinese. Casting an Asian actor to play a Tibetan may have got them in trouble with the censors over there. Is this morally correct?
...Not really...They still could have made a stand about it, but the execs might have just replaced the director and got the film done regardless.
I feel like this went right out the window when they went ahead with a guardians of the galaxy movie.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Who said they had to be Tibetan, or Chinese, they could have made the character any range of Asian nationalities and yet they chose a white woman.
Or they can make up an Asian country. It's not as if they haven't already.
Could also be Nepali. They shot at least some of it in Nepal.
ratcliffja
Member
To be fair, phase 3 is doing a lot to add diversity to the MCU. They're even race-switching a lot of characters like most of Spider-Man's supporting cast. The unfortunate fact is that it's very difficult to build new characters that are popular. Instead, the comics are having minorities take over the roles of popular characters like Cho Hulk and Captain Falcon America. Sadly, the most popular minority characters in Marvel are mostly part of larger teams, especially with the X-Men. Even if Marvel did get the X-Men film rights back, they would still be only including minorities in ensemble films. You're probably not going to see a Storm, Bishop, or Sunspot movie anytime soon. I'm just glad that Black Panther is finally happening. Still, they need to work on inclusion of Hispanic and Asian (both Eastern and Western) characters. It would be cool if they could do a 2099 version of the MCU, even if that's not as far into the future as it was when that series first started, as that Spider-Man is Hispanic.
I think this is where I stand when people want to make the argument about stereotypes. I would rather have the stereotype be there and have some representation (and hoping the actor or actress gets more roles in other movies) than to have a role whitewashed.
Edit: You know things are bad when you prefer stereotypes just to get done representation.
MHWilliams
Member
Guardians was always a strategic move. Best option they had for cosmic Marvel and Feige wanted something unrelated to Avengers, in a new sphere. As of the time that Marvel was ready to expand, Guardians was Marvel's biggest cosmic book. The other one (Nova) they vaguely threw into that first film. Fox owns the rest of those options.
Dr. Strange is magic.
Next step would be the multiverse. Depending on how they view Spider-Man, that covers younger Marvel, whereas without him, we might've had Ms. Marvel or Runaways much sooner.
There's no grand strategic move to open the Marvel Universe that also highlights a minority character off the top of my head. Perhaps Marvel will surprise me.
Many of Marvel and DCs biggest characters would've been labeled stereotypes and token characters. The magic of that is at least you can fix a character if they already exist. Execution is everything.
You can probably argue that Black Panther was a strategic move to open up the MCU from its mostly American focus. Black Pather is another one of those characters that is in the middle of a serious push (in and out of comics) after being b-tier in importance for most of his existance.
MHWilliams
Member
I agree to a point. I lean harder on the idea that Black Panther and Captain Marvel were direct answers to calls for black and female leads, which have probably been louder overall in comparison to Asian or Hispanic leads.
I think following that basic drive though, Black Panther has a more international focus and I feel (complete speculation) that Marvel Studios hopes Captain Marvel is their new Captain America-style standard barrier for further Phases.
I'm sure they'd like an Iron Man too, but we'll have to see how BP does.
BronsonLee
Member
They should just do an original Asian hero and call it
darkhunger
Member
A Shang-Chi movie would be the ultimate strategic move for Marvel... Make the setting MCU China and throw in a big Chinese superstar actor as well as your typical guest Marvel characters you have the second (soon to be biggest) film market in the world crazy for the movie.
MHWilliams
Member
I'd honestly be tickled pink if Marvel did that for Shang Chi.
Jay Chou is a solid up-and-comer for a younger Shang Chi.
I will also accept Huang Xiaoming.
They should/could do both!
BronsonLee
Member
agentofatlas
Member
Shang chi is pretty bland. The only incarnation of him that I found interesting was the recent battleworld comic.
Agreed.
Seems like he's being genuine, but there's nothing he could've really done about the casting here either.
Baby steps are steps regardless folks, people have to realize there's a problem before anyone moves to fix it. I think things are going to be changing fast in the next 5 years
tearsintherain
Member
I think the standard "escape clause" for Hollywood in these cases is that there is a vast and thriving Asian, Indian (South East Asian) and Hispanic movie and TV community. My wife still watches hours of Korean and Japanese dramas every week, my kids basically learned Mandarin from Chinese TV channels and mom. The TV was always on Bollywood movies when I hung out at my best friends house growing up, and the number of spanish-only channels is dizzying on any cable or satellite package.
It doesn't excuse the low percentage of Hispanic and Asian actors in Hollywood productions, but there are at least options for viewers who want to see someone who looks like them on their screen.
It doesn't excuse the low percentage of Hispanic and Asian actors in Hollywood productions, but there are at least options for viewers who want to see someone who looks like them on their screen.
True Savior
Member
Considering his position in the movie, sounds phony.
Believe it. China is incredibly fucked when it comes to censorship and where asian actors are cast from, and the way they treat Tibet is horrible in every way.
lightskintwin
Banned
You're giving Hollywood too much credit, it's just operating as it's been doing for decades as a White elitist industry.
The question is, would china allow it? If you been paying attention to hollywood blockbusters of the last few years, you'd notice alibaba films or other chinese companies at the beginning.
I know china loves them american actors, but I'm not actually sure if they'd care if a blockbuster hollywood action film stared a chinese dude? It's not like there are a lot of examples for reference.
I know china loves them american actors, but I'm not actually sure if they'd care if a blockbuster hollywood action film stared a chinese dude? It's not like there are a lot of examples for reference.
SamuelSupreme
Banned
Lupita is a sexy dark chocolatey woman that should be admired.
Big Baybee
Member
When I heard about this movie being made,I honestly thought the problem would be about the stereotype of the ancient one.
IndoAssassin
Banned
Call me when an Indian isn't cast as a taxi driver or a Doctor.
darkhunger
Member
Yes they care, if the actor is someone they know and care about. If not, then they don't care, because you're right, Asian audiences watch Hollywood movies expecting the actors to not be Asian, and they have plenty of other things to watch if they want to watch an Asian person do things.
The issue here is not what the Asian market thinks. It's what the Asian American market thinks. There are 10-20 million Asian Americans in the US and this is a group that essentially gets zero representation in any media.
BronsonLee
Member
Now You See Me 2 put Jay Chou in it and set a good portion of it in China and it saved the film
So it definitely matters
So it definitely matters
GuitarAtomik
Member
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Get an Asian American actor for Namor.
That's some bullshit casting.
Should have gotten someone more fit and can actually fight.
ratcliffja
Member
That would be fine, but I'm not sure when they'll use him considering his rights issues and the fact that he's a pretty unlikeable anti-hero whose standalone movie would require a pretty large budget to do correctly. I hope I'm wrong, though.
darkhunger
Member
I doubt he gets a standalone anytime soon, but him and Black Panther facing off would be a sight to see.
That and in a F4 movie when Marvel gets it back.
I also get the impression that they may not do it because DC is pushing Aquaman hard.
I cannot see that argument being made when we got Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man movies. Given that their priority list had both of them before Black Panther and Doctor Strange, it's safe to say that is not always the case. Heck, even the Inhumans is still in the works. They could easily make a Shang-Chi movie or bring him in for for an Avengers movie or something. Agents of Atlas could work too, though I don't know if they would try for another Guardians scenario again. Amadeus Cho could pop up anywhere really, though admittedly it is more annoying with Hulk's current status.
What bugs me about the reaction is that this is not about a character with the same level of importance as say Danny Rand (who will have his own series and Defenders), it is about a character whose actress is the fifth billed. This is not on the level of racists getting upset about a potential Donald Glover as Spider-Man, it is around the level of Idris Elba as Heimdall (which is still a shame, he could been someone more significant). To be fair to Marvel, they have been more transparent about the issue than most studios about the issue and seem to have struggled with how to bring the character over with offending the least amount of people. Considering how progressive Marvel has been, I think it is a bit shallow to immediately throw out anything they have to say with the pessimism I have seen in this thread and other discussions. I mean this is the company that currently has a black Captain America, a Muslim Ms Marvel, a female Thor, and a soon-to-be black female Iron Man.
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