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Does anyone else dislike Depth of Field in games?

I said this earlier but I feel it bears repeating: my eyes already do DOF and motion blur, I don't need an algorithm to do it for me

Your eyes do, but only for real world content. A 30fps image on a tv is not the same as the real world equivalent.

If the screen was replicating the 3D light field at 600fps, then yeah you wouldn't need an algorithm to do it for you.
 

Mulgrok

Member
I always turn of DoF, motion blur, bloom, etc... off, even if I have to go into config files to change it manually. It just looks horrible, unrealistic and eye straining, imo. This goes especially for FPS and action games, where my eyes are darting around constantly. The blur from those effects just hurts my eyes a bunch.
 

riflen

Member
I think it can look great, personally.

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I only really like the effect when it is used in cinematic instances such as cut scenes. But during gameplay, I would prefer to have it off, unless it could be implemented really well.
 

Metal-Geo

Member
Depends entirely on how tasteful it's implanted and used. DOF when you're aiming down sight in a FPS is something I can appreciate. Or even the subtle effect when you're not in iron sight. (I think Killzone 2 was the first?)

But then there are games that decide for me what the hell I'm actually looking at. Wolfenstein: The New Order has some of this in the hide-out sections of the game.
 

III-V

Member
It is important, particularly in story "bits" as it guides the focus of your eyes into the 2d image you are staring at. If it is overdone, or keeping you from seeing where you want to, it is not being implemented correctly and it is obnoxious.
 

Dire

Member
I usually turn it off but not because I don't enjoy it. It's just an unreasonably expensive effect. Disabling it in Skyrim increased the FPS by around 10FPS, for example.
 

Raonak

Banned
I tend to like it, Only really noticed in infamous and it's used quite nice. blurs out far away objects, making it more easier to focus on stuff you want. Can be done badly, but havent seen to many instances of that yet.

lol @ people claiming their eyes do DoF in a 2D image.
 

cHinzo

Member
I always turn it off in the settings if there is an option for it. Dont need no blurriness in my games. Depth of Field and Motion Blurr makes everything so messy.
 

SeanTSC

Member
As many have said - It's good if it's done well.

Unfortunately much of the time it isn't done well. If you can't do it well then you shouldn't implement it at all. No DoF is far better than any DoF that is less than Good. Decent? Not good enough, chuck that shit.

Bad DoF doesn't even make any sense. It seems like some people put it in just for the sake of putting it in even if it makes their game look obviously worse.
 

Terra_Ex

Member
Yes, I've never been a fan of it and some games take it to the extreme. I often disable it when the option is there. If it's only very subtle it doesn't bother me so much.
 
Bokeh DoF looks absolutely great.

The only time I hate on DoF is when I can notice it, ie it break immersion. If I can't notice it, it's working properly.
 

PKrockin

Member
Logically, if I have control over the character, I should be able to focus my character's eyeballs wherever I please. I don't know why I shouldn't be allowed to see everything clearly.
 

ItIsOkBro

Member
When playing the game, if I don't notice DOF, it's fine. Traversing or just sightseeing, is fine.

But if I can notice it when I'm in combat or something, then it's overdone.

The thing I'm trying to get at is if it's good if you don't notice it then why have it at all.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I hate it. I know that they are trying to "simulate" a real life effect in film camer's where it only focus's on something where everything else is out of focus. The problem is, a game camera is not necessarily focused on something with the same intention a film director would use. With a game or a film, your eyes are free to wander around the image and may focus on a blurry section. In a film this can be justified by the hardware and the fact it was intentional. In a game, you may in fact want to be focusing on the entire scene or on an area the camera has out of focus. It is distracting and annoying. I don't like DoF. A very mild effect in open world games can be ok, but I usually turn it off.
I agree completely.
 

Dommo

Member
Not with a 2D image.

Yup exactly. Do you think films shouldn't have any DOF for the same reasons Zeyphersan?


I believe the cases where DOF isn't working well is when it doesn't make physical sense. For those of you who know how a lens works, you'll already know this, but I'll explain. A lens will gather shallower depth of field the more it's zoomed in, or the closer the object it's focusing on is. So generally for closeups of actors or objects, there'll be massive blur leading into the background.

If you watch any film's wide shots however, you'll notice there's absolutely no depth of field to be found. The camera is well zoomed out, and it's focused on something very far away. As such, nothing is out of focus. The human eye works the same way. Go on. Look out your window. You'll notice everything is in focus. Now lift your hand up to your eyes and look at it and see everything blur into the back. In games, most of the time, depth of field is being used on very wide, very zoomed out shots (that's generally the perspective you'll play a FPS or a TPS from). It makes no sense for there to be any blur on screen.

Crysis does it correct, optically. There won't be any DOF and then when you customize your gun, and the character holds it up to your face, the background will blur out. That's correct. But these games where the entire landscape beyond 10 feet is blurry mush doesn't make sense. No camera or eye has ever captured a shot that wide and had that much blur. It's not realistically sound and yet that's the reason why DOF is generally implemented - for realism.
 

wapplew

Member
More developer mimic camera than real human eye sight.
Dirty camera lens effect, bokeh, I'm sure none of that appear on my real eye vision.
I hope they don't bring those to VR.
 

Dead Man

Member
Hate it. For cutscenes I don't mind it, but for FPS especially I can't stand it.

More developer mimic camera than real human eye sight.
Dirty camera lens effect, bokeh, I'm sure none of that appear on my real eye vision.
I hope they don't bring those to VR.
I think you will be hoping in vain. Gotta make it cinematic yo. :/
 

majik13

Member
More developer mimic camera than real human eye sight.
Dirty camera lens effect, bokeh, I'm sure none of that appear on my real eye vision.
I hope they don't bring those to VR.

since everything real we see on a TV is shot with a camera and lens, these implmentations and effects make sense. That is what we percieve as reality. If you remove them, then it makes the image more artificial and digital.

games are not simulating your real vision. As your real vision doesnt make sense coming through a TV. And as said would just come off as more fake, and surreal. A TV cant potray real vision.

However, as you say, these effects wouldnt make sense with VR, as in most cases that is indeed simulating real eye vision, so we shouldnt be experiencing that stuff in VR.
 

Dead Man

Member
since everything real we see on a TV is shot with a camera and lens, these implmentations and effects make sense. That is what we percieve as reality. If you remove them, then it makes the image more artificial and digital.

They are not simulating your real vision. As your real vision doesnt make sense coming through a TV.

However, as you say, it wouldnt make sense with VR, as in most cases that is simulatng real eye vision, so it wouldn't make sense to have any extra effects like that.

That wont

In a first person game, they are simulating your eyes, same as first person in VR. It makes no sense regardless of the screen design.
 

Aurongel

Member
The reason so much of this conversation is divided is because many of you are missing the fact that artificial DOF effects look better in stills than they do in motion due to them closely resembling photography.
 

majik13

Member
In a first person game, they are simulating your eyes, same as first person in VR. It makes no sense regardless of the screen design.

therotically kinda, but nope, its more gopro than anything.

We have never seen images on a TV or any other media captured with someone's eyes. Our reality is always captured with a camera and lens. Always
Also a FPS shooter on TV doesnt follow your head movements, stereo vision or eye focus as well as several other real vision type stuff.

This is only if you are going for photorealism obviously. Key word here being Photo.
Otherwise the image will come off as too clean, digital, surreal. Or as a stylized cartoon if you got hat route.
 

Dead Man

Member
therotically kinda, but nope, its more gopro than anything.

We have never seen images on a TV captured with someone's eyes.
Also a FPS shooter on TV doesnt follow your head movements, stereo vision or eye focus as well as several other real vision type stuff.

LOL, sure.
 

playXray

Member
Yep, absolutely hate it during gameplay. It's a load of nonsense for me, as depth of field is generally used to distinguish between what's being focused on and what isn't - I don't mind this in a cut-scene, but during gameplay I may well be staring off into the distance but DoF has no way of knowing this so just blurs it all anyway.
 

Dead Man

Member
yep very sure.

Look, sorry for being so dismissive, I went back to edit my post but you had already replied. But there is no way you will ever convince me that a first person game is not simulating the vision of a person, while maintaining that a VR game is doing that.

You are saying the screen design determines the aim of the simulation.
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I turn that shit off, even when it's really good made. Sorry, based Durante.
 

majik13

Member
Look, sorry for being so dismissive, I went back to edit my post but you had already replied. But there is no way you will ever convince me that a first person game is not simulating the vision of a person, while maintaining that a VR game is doing that.

You are saying the screen design determines the aim of the simulation.

reread my posts, I edited to hopefully make it more clear.

Sure a fps game can be simulating real vision of a person. Im just saying that if they add these effects (dof, dirt, lens flares, etc) like a real camera does, accurately that it will come off as being photorealistic. It it doesnt they will come off as looking more fake and digital.

Even movies like Saving Private Ryan, that portray scenes through the eyes of a soldier. All inherently have these camera effects.

What would be more photoreal, and come off as realistic?

Real footage of a soldier wearing a gopro camera on his head in the middle of a firefight?

Or someone playing the latest arma or whatever with no camera effects. Just pure digital , sharp, in game rendering? No chroma, no dof, no lens flare, no dirt, no grain.

If these effects are used accurately and correctly(which games ussually cant fully do), then its something you don't notice, but feel, subconsciously. And just comes off as right and real.

thats why these games and movies with CG, even animated movies, add all these camera effects. As that is how all true reality is captured. they are trying to obtain better photorealism.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I like DoF in photographs, helps me to emphasise a subject. Likewise, it can look nice in cutscenes, or during dialogue with a character, to focus attention on the subject

But for that same reason it doesn't make sense for gameplay - especially variable DoF based on where your character is looking. The game doesn't know where *I* am looking. It may know where my cursor is aiming, but that isn't the same thing - I may be scanning the environment for targets or items, so I want everything in focus. The only acceptable DoF in gameplay for me is subtle, at a fixed distance, and generally in the far background so as not to obscure things of interest.
 
I like DoF fine in cutscenes, or moments where you are supposed to focus on something on the foreground during some dialogue. Not a big fan of it during gameplay though.
 

Caayn

Member
DoF looks fine in screenshots, but when I'm playing I want it gone.

Blur everything seems a new checkbox on some devs checklist during game development :(
 
When I open my eyes in real life I see no blur. I'm either looking at something, in which case I can see it perfectly clearly, or it's in my peripheral vision, which doesn't look anything like depth of field blur. At no point do I ever look at a thing and have it be all blurry. I guess that's stuff's fine for cutscenes if you're trying to be all cinematic, but I don't think there's any place for it in gameplay.
 

majik13

Member
When I open my eyes in real life I see no blur. I'm either looking at something, in which case I can see it perfectly clearly, or it's in my peripheral vision, which doesn't look anything like depth of field blur. At no point do I ever look at a thing and have it be all blurry. I guess that's stuff's fine for cutscenes if you're trying to be all cinematic, but I don't think there's any place for it in gameplay.

many games are going for a sort of photorealism, thats why they are there, not looking through your eyes but a camera.

This argument should only be saved for actual VR, that is usually truly trying to simulate your eye vision and reality, and not photoreality.

but on the same token I can understand. Many games over use these effects incorrectly or poorly, so its distracting. But they can also be effective and making the game feel a bit more real at times.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
If I have the camera and I'm choosing what to look at, I also should get to choose which depth of field I'm looking at as well, which means I want all of them to be nice and clear. If I don't have camera control then I'm mostly fine with it, though I guess I may slightly prefer more detail to better realism if given a choice.

Nothing is worse than depth of field in 3D glasses stuff in movies though. That basically single handedly ruins the entire technology for me. I guess I'm the type of guy that likes to scan the background because I get bored easily. If you refocus your eyes to the background field, see it still blurred out, while blurring out the in focus part of the shot with your natural depth of field blur, that's just a recipe for both feeling sick and being taken out of the experience.
 
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