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[pantsmith]

I don't see the issue with giving us a game full of weird ideas and building off of the feedback going forward, so long as they actually listen and build off of that feedback, and so long as the mechanics are rock solid (they are).

I mean, hell, thats the difference between the Diablo 3 we had and the Diablo 3 that exists now. People generally seem to like Diablo 3 now. It (it being dialogue with players) works, and I sometimes think it is impossible to build a game for a public without them playing that game first.

 

[Doran902]

I don't see the issue with giving us a game full of weird ideas and building off of the feedback going forward, so long as they actually listen and build off of that feedback, and so long as the mechanics are rock solid (they are).

I mean, hell, thats the difference between the Diablo 3 we had and the Diablo 3 that exists now. People generally seem to like Diablo 3 now. It (it being dialogue with players) works, and I sometimes think it is impossible to build a game for a public without them playing that game first.

Diablo 3 didnt charge you for an expansion 3 months after it released though. Thats Destiny's version of "building" on the game.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

What?! When? What did they nerf?

Tuesday's patch.

They removed the extra magazine perk and replaced it with faster reload. So now you're stuck with 3 charges. Feels weird, I didn't see that weapon on pvp and no one was complaining about it.

 

[Dhruv_hanom]

I avoided WoW for the same reason - my addiction was Starcraft II and Warcraft III, which both I felt were less abusive psychologically. I think Destiny´s progression system was designed to induce a lot of anxiety to maximise the addiction loop. It forces a huge time investment and the more hours you put in a game the more invested and attached you are to it - which makes you less likely to quit as then you´ve "wasted" all that time. I find it manipulative, but I´m sure millions disagree and that´s ok.

I absolutely agree with you. Having spent countless hours with the game it's design decisions like capping the weekly marks, once a week reward systems and the atrocious vendor/faction leveling grind just force you to stick around longer. I'm particularly salty about the 100 mark per week limit. The grind to 100 is bad enough but being forced to wait days to get more marks to buy weapons or sparrows irked me greatly.

After you hit level 20 and the game becomes a highly repetitive grind fest with a luck based progression system (enjoy your shards while people around you get raid gear) and a biased award system(I'm looking at you crucible afkers). After reaching level 30 the sole reason that kept me going was the vex and the timebreaker. Yes, I was disappointed when I didn't get either after 5 hard raids and I kept telling myself the best gun in the game was worth the effort. Then it was nerfed, 34% base damage reduction resulting in a 50% overall damage reduction. The best gun was now clubbed with the likes of bad juju ( sorry marvel) and thorn.

Suddenly raids weren't worth it and that nudged me to take a step back and I asked myself a question "why was I playing this game?" I was playing this game not because I was having fun or because there were tons of things to do but because I was addicted to the next shiny piece of loot and that loot was carefully kept behind not only crucible/vanguard marks and rep but also behind chance.

Destiny is a game designed to make you play for a very very long time which would have been awesome if it wasn't a shell of a game infested with grind walls and a luck based reward/progression system. I'll come back to it later if things change.

 

[quickwhips]

we need more gear. Better Sets of Gear would be amazing also. I miss my wow tier 1 and 2 sets.

 

[pantsmith]

Diablo 3 didnt charge you for an expansion 3 months after it released though. Thats Destiny's version of "building" on the game.

Yes, I too am salty about them announcing an "expansion" so soon after the main game, but its not a 1:1 comparison. I imagine most of the mechanical changes, and item/reward balancing, will be included with the game regardless, as was the case with Diablo.

Reaper of Souls was designed with all of that player feedback in mind, but the core design dripped back into the composition of the base game itself. The "game" itself changed completely. I imagine the Destiny 1.5 (call it Comet or "The Actual Expansion" or whatever) we'll get in a year (or so) will do much the same.

Bungie's reputation is on the line, and I do believe they want to make as many people happy as they can. But within reason.

 

[Gaz_RB]

Guys! Destiny 2!

 

[Crimson_Fate]

The load time have to be one of the worst aspects of this game. I'd like to see them do something about that. I often wonder how many hours I've spent at the loading screens so far. Maybe they can allow you to choose where you want to go from anywhere so its not a 2 step process. I'd like to go from a moon patrol directly to the tower without passing go.

 

[Memorabilia]

Agreed. The separation between a good enjoyable game and a psychologically addictive game is one that is rarely made. A good game isn´t necessarily addictive, but a game can be both too of course. An addictive game however isn´t necessarily a good game.

I found that I played Destiny a lot, but I wasn´t enjoying it. I found the grind simply depressive. It didn´t bring me joy. It activated anxiety loops which I calmed down by grinding more. One day I just decided to quit it completely and I´ve felt much better ever since. Destiny abuses psychological addiction mechanisms extremely well and I´m not a fan of that style of game design (essentially the same as in many F2P mobile games).

Almost tagworhty, but not quite good enough.

I see what you did there...lol

 

[Magnus]

Seeing the world have to deal with RNG for what seems to be the first time ever is bizarrely cathartic as a longtime WoW MMO player.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. It's frustrating as fuck.

 

[Doran902]

Yes, I too am salty about them announcing an "expansion" so soon after the main game, but its not a 1:1 comparison. I imagine most of the mechanical changes, and item/reward balancing, will be included with the game regardless, as was the case with Diablo.

Reaper of Souls was designed with all of that player feedback in mind, but the core design dripped back into the composition of the base game itself. The "game" itself changed completely. I imagine the Destiny 1.5 (call it Comet or "The Actual Expansion" or whatever) we'll get in a year (or so) will do much the same.

Bungie's reputation is on the line, and I do believe they want to make as many people happy as they can. But within reason.

I'm super salty. Borderline bipolar with this game. I absolutely love it to death have played it a ton and do the raid every week with friends but the extreme lack of content and half the design decisions frustrate me. The idea of spending 34.99 on two expansions this close after release for a game that is lacking content and story is an abomination. Hate it. Gonna buy them and play the shit out of them. Weird right?

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I think they know what they're doing for sure. A lot of people just don't like what they've done/are doing.

It's a mesh between an Halo-esque FPS game and Borderlands with some MMO grinding mixed in in place of the loot drop frenzy of BL or Diablo.

Most likely it's a way to stretch out play time between DLC packs so they can make more money in the long run. That rubs some people the wrong way, and some just find the game boring since it's a ton of replaying the same missions, strikes and raids over and over, doing the same bounties repeatedly etc. while hoping for drops, farming shards/energy to upgrade things etc.

Myself, I'm still having fun with it--closing in on 90 hours. But I'm almost at level 29 and I'm not sure I'll push to 30. I haven't done the Raid yet, but plan to try soon when I have more time to arrange a group etc. Maybe I'll have a blast with that and want to play every week until I luck into the needed gear to hit 30. But it kind of seems like a waste since I'd presume that the DLC will up the level cap and have better gear from new raids etc., so there doesn't seem much point to hit 30 and have nothing to do other than grind the hard mode raid until DLC comes out. So I may just take a break after hitting 29 and running the raid a couple times and wait for the DLC to get back into it.

 

[pixlexic]

The leveling past 20 is still horribly confusing.

I still don't understand how armor gets light.

Why can't we just have the normal leveling system?

 

[DC1]

That's the thing though, we don't. That's why we have this thread. Many don't believe Bungie have the right vision to take this game to where it needs to be.

Every MMO goes through this, but not in the way you describe. Some go through this, realize their flaws, revamp themselves and keep on living with the fraction of the playerbase who didn't ragequit before the game was fixed. Others just refuse to accept their flaws and never fix them, so their playerbase dwindles via more and more people realizing how broken and unfair it is until only the most dedicated remain, and the game essentially dies.

We don't know which way Destiny will go. And it's not an MMO anyway.

Fair and True (except for the MMO comment.. It is a 'hybrid' MMO. Otherwise the game has the most over used assets and functionality of any game in history).

My intent was not to hush the criticism, but to contextualize them. Where we also agree is on urgency. Bungie has to be clear and definitive on content so that post release balancing happens less often. And, as I have mentioned, give me and others a reason to go through the raid on hard. Give me a reason to feel like I have something unique and wonderfully rare. As much as bungie discusses the need to have a 'story to tell', that story almost aways is "I bought it with my strange coins".

With that being said, I'm looking forward to this game turning the corner. Much like the Banking system in the US, it's to big to fail.

 

[Trojan]

Well written OP, and a good overall recap of the life of Destiny so far. I think there must have been some late-in-the-game design changes; that's the only way I can explain the bizarre "light level" leveling system and the reliance on RNG to dictate leveling in the late game. The realization at the lack of content could have spurned some of these changes late in the dev cycle...they're essentially taking their best content (Raid) and artificially stretching it out so there's a carrot out there to grind for.

 

[SgtCobra]

Tuesday's patch.

They removed the extra magazine perk and replaced it with faster reload. So now you're stuck with 3 charges. Feels weird, I didn't see that weapon on pvp and no one was complaining about it.

They really removed the main feature of this weapon? Way to fucking go Bungie.

 

[Foxix Von]

The issue I take from it personally is that it nullifies the way gear and weapons are tiered currently. If my basic weapon is as good as a legendary one in crucible, but the legendary one is clearly better in PvE, then the stats between the two modes should be different. PvE and PvP weapons should be balanced separately. This way, weapons that may be overpowered in multiplayer aren't nerfed to hell and back when you take them into the PvE portions of the game, which we are seeing with the Mythoclast. It was already lacking on ammo in the PvE side, but now it's both useless there and useless in PvP. Changes like this cripple the longevity of the game by invalidating the challenges required to earn these items.

Jesus, it's like you read my mind. Hi-fi famicom and I literally just had a conversation about this. I spent so long trying to get the pocket infinity and just before I rank it up to being useful they nerfed it for the crucible. =/

 

[PedroLumpy]

Suddenly raids weren't worth it and that nudged me to take a step back and I asked myself a question "why was I playing this game?" I was playing this game not because I was having fun or because there were tons of things to do but because I was addicted to the next shiny piece of loot

Not even specific to Destiny, this a good question lots people need to honestly ask themselves.

 

[Aeqvitas]

I get to visit Bungie this weekend for 2 days, I plan to give them some constructive feedback.

 

[Loxley]

Whether or not Bungie "know what they're doing", I think it's painfully obvious just how green they are when it comes to this kind of game. Sure, the shooting is fine, these guys have obviously made shooters in the past. But once you start getting into the more MMO-like features, that's where the cracks start to show and Bungie's inexperience with handling the the multiplayer RPG features of Destiny become more apparent. This whole thing seems to be one giant learning experience for them, and at the moment, they seem to just be trying to figure it out as they go.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

They really removed the main feature of this weapon? Way to fucking go Bungie.

It's absurd. 18 energies wasted sigh.

It wasn't even a popular pvp weapon.

 

[KOHIPEET]

IMHO, I like the game, it has its faults, ups and downs, but the gunplay is fairly solid and addictive.

But.

I think the problem with Destiny lies in its identity, or the lack of it, and ironically, I think what's wrong with Destiny kinda sums up what's wrong with the industry as a whole.

It's like Bungie had some kind of pressure to create something new, something groundbreaking. Because hey, that's what looks good on review blurbs, which look good on huge ass posters and trailers.

Bungie's craft was fairly simple. Make a good SP with an interesting story and good narrative with an added full COOP option, plus of course a freakin' good MP (Huge maps with vehicles is what I loved about it) to top it all. Halo 1-3 (Might Reach as well) were this. Nothing more. It didn't really reinvent itself through the sequels.

But with Destiny, for some reason they wanted something new, something that has never been seen before. Something games journalism (respect for those that don't) wants, or perhaps it's better to say, something that became the major hobby-horse for most of them. (See Driveclub's case for example. Trashing a racing game because it has nothing more than racing. Blasphemy.)

The inherent, forced need for innovation, for something that is different. (this might originate from motion controls perhaps, but if done right, those are an entirelly different story.)

Does Counter-Strike Source has an innovative gameplay? No. Does CS:GO has it? No.
LOL? DOTA 2? WOW? Or perhaps COD? Hell no! Yet these games are practically among (if not) the most played games on the planet. (One might say. But hey! What about Minecraft? I'd say it is innovative in that it virtualized the LEGO experience and mixed it with RPG elements, but is it truly that new, groundbreaking? No)

IMO, the bottom line is that developers should keep what's good and try refining that formula instead of desperately trying to invent new things. Not every game needs to be open world, we don't need achievements for every single fart we pull of in a PVP match. (Seriously, games nowadays almost reward you for dying nicely)

Give me UT, Quake or Destruction derby or Burnout 3 (this list could go on long) any time over the grinding, repetitive and mainly boring innovative cooperative experience of Destiny any time. (The PVP can actually be pretty fun. But just until you get killed because of a glitch, an unballanced weapon, or you realize that your class is shit compared to the others and you start with a handicap)

Luckily though, Bungie decided to keep one thing. Gunplay.
For me it's gunplay that keeps Destiny from falling into the deep hole of mediocre games.

Make no mistake I don't want to tell the developers what game they should make, only that innovation for the sake of innovation leads nowhere.

And to answer the OP, I think Bungie doesn't even have the slightes idea of what are they doing. Or if they do, they hide it pretty well. (The Curious case of Iron Banner)

Sorry for the rant. I had an emotional day.

 

[we.are.the.armada]

God damn that is a GREAT OP. Bungie, for fuck's sake please read that.

 

[Two Words]

Tuesday's patch.

They removed the extra magazine perk and replaced it with faster reload. So now you're stuck with 3 charges. Feels weird, I didn't see that weapon on pvp and no one was complaining about it.

It sucks now. I was destroying people in PVP. It was my praetorian killer, too. It really sucks for them to kill it's usefulness so severely all for the sake of PvP.

 

[ibitegirls]

Game is not what I expected and I've lost a lot of confidence in Bungie. Time to move on I guess.

 

[Spineker]

It definitely does feel like The Crucible has gotten worse since launch

 

[PhatSaqs]

They really removed the main feature of this weapon? Way to fucking go Bungie.

Not really. It's still a a FR with full auto capability.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It sucks now. I was destroying people in PVP. It was my praetorian killer, too. It really sucks for them to kill it's usefulness so severely all for the sake of PvP.

Yeah, it was my praetorian killer too. It's now shelved sigh.

 

[ryuken-d]

It's so BS how I do a raid four times and only ONCE did I get one raid armor piece (gloves). Seriously the raids can be difficult enough as it is but for Christ sake at least GIVE ME A CHANCE to hit lv 30.

The RNG in this game is one of the most mind boggling things I have ever seen and experienced in gaming. And THAT is coming from a guy who plays card games like Yugioh, Hearthstone, or the other loot game Vanilla Diablo 3.

oh man what I would'nt give to get some raid gloves!!!! I got (bought) an exotic chest piece, then I get a raid chest piece. I got (bought) an exotic helm, then I get a raid helm!! come on!!! are there even exotic armor for legs or arms for a hunter?? I've never seen any. also finaly lvl 29!!!

 

[Two Words]

Yeah, it was my praetorian killer too. It's now shelved sigh.

Yeah it kills any motivation for me to invest in weapons now. It seems like they have no reservations in killing our fun with weapons for the sake of PvP. I'll be honest, I felt Pocket Infinity was broken in PvP. It wasn't a fare gun at all. But that was not a difficult thing to figure out at all. It should have been completely obvious when balancing the game. So instead of giving it game-breaking features that they will take away, they should have given it completely different features that were good and balanced instead.

 

[RoKKeR]

Stopped playing two weeks ago once I hit twenty and have absolutely zero desire to go back. OP is well written and doesn't make me want to pick up and play anytime soon.

I think it's clear that bungie bit off more than they could chew and weren't ready for all of the repercussions of running an MMO-like game, no matter how much they tried to deny it.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

From what has been said by the community and (from what I can see) the not-so-good/near non-existent communication from Bungie to the commnity: they certainly don't know where their wiener is.

 

[ryuken-d]

Yeah it kills any motivation for me to invest in weapons now. It seems like they have no reservations in killing our fun with weapons for the sake of PvP. I'll be honest, I felt Pocket Infinity was broken in PvP. It wasn't a favor gun at all. But that was not a difficult thing to figure out at all. It should have been completely obvious when balancing the game. So instead of giving it game-breaking features that they will take away, they should have given it completely different features that were good and balanced instead.

I feel the same about the Vex mythoclast. It was so crazy good in PVP I actually felt bad for using it so the nerf was justified but nerfing it in PVE??? what the fuck. and of course i already upgraded it 90%.

 

[BigDug13]

Seeing the world have to deal with RNG for what seems to be the first time ever is bizarrely cathartic as a longtime WoW MMO player.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. It's frustrating as fuck.

You can't make blanket statements like this towards every loot dissenter as if every one if them is not experienced in MMO's. Destiny isn't an MMO first of all, second of all, quite a few pissed off people are plenty well versed in other loot games and MMO's. It's a false assumption.

 

[EGM1966]

sorta maybe

 

[E92 M3]

I get to visit Bungie this weekend for 2 days, I plan to give them some constructive feedback.

Please do. The most important thing is to definitely separate PVE and PVP. I know they are already aware of everything, but more people saying can never hurt. Most importantly it needs to be done ASAP for the sake of the community.

 

[Dhruv_hanom]

Yeah, it was my praetorian killer too. It's now shelved sigh.

I know I still owe you a nightfall but it'll have to wait till December :-(

 

[Armaros]

You can't make blanket statements like this towards every loot dissenter as if every one if them is not experienced in MMO's. Destiny isn't an MMO first of all, second of all, quite a few pissed off people are plenty well versed in other loot games and MMO's. It's a false assumption.

Destiny does RNG and loot in ways that developers tried and then corrected at least a decade ago.

It's puzzling miss mash of arachic game design decision from years before.

No social functions for a social game.

Multiple layers of rng in loot.

Etc.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I know I still owe you a nightfall but it'll have to wait till December :-(

You're quitting until the expansion too? =((

 

[Heroman]

Destiny is just a bad game. There is so much bad shit that that it out ways the good.

 

[GoaThief]

Tuesday's patch.

They removed the extra magazine perk and replaced it with faster reload. So now you're stuck with 3 charges. Feels weird, I didn't see that weapon on pvp and no one was complaining about it.

I'm guessing they looked at analytics and made that change due to what was discovered mate.

No real complaints with the nerfs on the whole, especially the Vexmyth.

 

[pringles]

Man, have people ever loved to hate a game as much as they do Destiny?

The latest patch was great. It's possible they nerfed the Mytho and PI too hard but keep in mind the reaction to those two weapons was largely "way to fucking break the game Bungie! Auto-win weapons, good job!". No surprise Bungie nerfed them while there's still only a few players using them.
Autorifles are still great. Had my best run of K/D ever in Crucible with my Suros, post-patch.

They've made some clumsy decisions (Queen's Wrath) and there are many areas where they can improve the game a lot but overall it's no accident that the game keeps so many hooked. They have a winning formula and from here on out it's a matter of tweaking and adding to it rather than making any big changes. If you don't like it, don't play.

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

This game is probably the biggest cluster fuck I ever played, I am currently at level 24. How I got there? I don't know, all I heard is that I have to have some kind of legendary armor. Can anyone please explain to me the easiest way to get them?

This is the biggest issue with the game. Unless you are on GAF or YT you have no idea how to actually proceed from 20-30. Join a faction, but you need to grind crucible marks. Do Vanguard! Now you need some luck. Finally get a legendary? Now you need to grind for materials.

These guys with a very major content issue made a grind out of a grind out of a grind. There really isn't any single part of the game past 20 that doesn't require grinding and a shit ton of it.

 

[GoaThief]

Please do. The most important thing is to definitely separate PVE and PVP. I know they are already aware of everything, but more people saying can never hurt. Most importantly it needs to be done ASAP for the sake of the community.

I believe their vision was to take your character everywhere, and I think it's a good one IMHO. They should stick to their guns.

The VM isn't useless now, it's more in line with the other weapons. There's a lot of hyperbole surrounding it's defenders, for example it would even take down Oracles faster than any other weapon and it didn't have the elemental bonus. Now it's more as it should have been those that have been using it as something akin to a crutch have to play like everyone else. It's still viable and has its uses.
+edit

Man, have people ever loved to hate a game as much as they do Destiny?

Indeed.

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Actually, I take it back. The biggest issue with the game is NO SOCIAL FEATURES AT ALL.

"Dances"

 

[Dhruv_hanom]

You're quitting until the expansion too? =((

Yes, I quit when they announced the patch, wiped the game from the ps4 went to the store and bought the evil within :-D

 

[SonnyBoy]

I can sum up my issue with Destiny pretty quickly.

It's simply not worth the effort. I'm a 30 year old professional with a family. I'd AT THE VERY LEAST like to get something out of the bit of time I put into a game.

Simply put, maybe this game isn't for me. Maybe I'm the issue. I don't have 6 friends with which to conduct raids with. Due to my life, I need to be able to pick up the controller and play and not post on a forum asking for raid goers.

 

[siah]

Whether or not Bungie "know what they're doing", I think it's painfully obvious just how green they are when it comes to this kind of game. Sure, the shooting is fine, these guys have obviously made shooters in the past. But once you start getting into the more MMO-like features, that's where the cracks start to show and Bungie's inexperience with handling the the multiplayer RPG features of Destiny become more apparent. This whole thing seems to be one giant learning experience for them, and at the moment, they seem to just be trying to figure it out as they go.

Well said.

 

[HiredN00bs]

They never fixed the problems of the multiplayer: Superbouncing, buttonglitches, swipe sniping, standby modems, dummying etc

False. Final version of the Banhammer killed most modification use and network manipulation. Other problems were too deeply engrained in the engine. MCC will still have them too, in fact.

Halo 2 also saw updated playlists with map, timer, glitch fixes, and free DLC. I'm so sick of people trying to paint Bungie as a developer that doesn't care when that couldn't be further from the truth, with a track record to prove it.

 

[pringles]

I can sum up my issue with Destiny pretty quickly.

It's simply not worth the effort. I'm a 30 year old professional with a family. I'd AT THE VERY LEAST like to get something out of the bit of time I put into a game.

Simply put, maybe this game isn't for me. Maybe I'm the issue. I don't have 6 friends with which to conduct raids with. Due to my life, I need to be able to pick up the controller and play and not post on a forum asking for raid goers.

The game is perfect for people like you and me. It's worse for people that can sink 7-8 hours per day into it. I don't know exactly what you mean by "get something out of it" but isn't that something the enjoyment? And if you're not enjoying it then you're right, it's not for you. Nothing is for everyone.

As for raids, if you're level 27+, post a LFG message on destinylfg.net and you'll get an invite in like 2 minutes. Same goes for weekly strikes. I was skeptical about going that route at first too but it's really NO hassle.