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Does GTA V have to worry about Sleeping Dogs?

Spirit of Jazz said:
It felt clunky to me and not at all fun, I'd rather have arcade handling in open world games. Also Sleeping Dogs manages to make shooting whilst driving a joy when it's utterly tedious in other comparable titles.
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Naw. I felt like i was actually achieving something by pulling off manoeuvres and shooting a car off the road. It took a while to get the driving down in IV, but it was rewarding once you "got" it. Clunky? The cars were weighty, not necessarily realistic but it was closer to being real then most open world games.


BigDug13 said:
If I want full car realism in my open world games, then I expect first person view support while driving and steering wheel support. You can't give cars completely realistic weight and expect my controller stick to be my only input method in controlling it.

You could hack your PC version to support first person mode and steering wheel support if you refuse to download later GTA4 patches in which Rockstar broke those mods again.

So why create realistic driving physics without allowing support for the very control devices and player-viewpoints that are designed for realistic driving?
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This is ridiculous. IV is a console action game. Not a driving sim. By this logic you'd want the shooting to use a light gun like Time crisis. The driving in IV is the perfect balance between realistic and arcadey. Takes skill, but not perfection.
 
GTA is better if only because of the driving. Love the physics and handling of cars in GTA IV. And now they're going to apply that attention to detail to planes, which will automatically make GTA V the best game ever.
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
It either needs mechanics on par with Sleeping Dogs or it has to be as ludicrous as Saint's Row 3 for me to buy it. I'm only 1 person though when millions will but it no matter how bad it is.
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I hate how you say it like that. 'no matter how bad it is'. What if some of us dont absolutely demand that it has super-great melee combat or is completely whacky and unserious like Saints Row? The game can be completely incredible without having to lean to either extreme. I admit more solid melee mechanics would be great and I'd be surprised if there wasn't *some* improvement in that area, but its not anything I absolutely have to have. I've never loved GTA games for its tight gunplay or its action-game level hand-to-hand combat or anything. And while I enjoyed some of the more over-the-topness of Vice City and San Andreas, I dont need it to be any more extreme than that. It doesn't have to compete with Saints Row in that aspect and it probably shouldn't cuz it wont win. They should just focus on making a great GTA game, not trying to outdo its competitors in every little area.
 
GTA IV will be nothing like Sants row. And we can all thank the gaming gods for that. Let the children enjoy the "wackiness" of saints row. Keep that trash and dildo canons out of my Grand Theft Auto thanks.
 
How the hell is melee combat moving the open world genre forward? I would think mission structure and the way a mission could branch off into different Territory depending on decisions/choices/failures would be moving the genre forward.

I have a question, does Sleeping Dogs have a mission system where failure could lead to different endings/missions? Because the first True Crime had this and 2nd one sorta did.
 
Enter The 36 Chambers said:
This is ridiculous. IV is a console action game. Not a driving sim. By this logic you'd want the shooting to use a light gun like Time crisis. The driving in IV is the perfect balance between realistic and arcadey. Takes skill, but not perfection.
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I disagree that it was a good balance. Regular front wheel drive cars don't fishtail at 20 miles per hour in dry conditions from a simple turn. I don't want to have to massage the analog stick and brakes and gas perfectly to avoid spinning out. I have never wanted that realism out of GTA games. It's just not fun to me. GTA4 was the first 3D GTA game that I didn't finish. It was the first one I didn't like.

If you're going to make one specific phase of the game more realistic while still using inferior car controls like analog thumb sticks, that's going to make the experience less enjoyable. And yes, before you ask, I hate playing racing games on a controller unless it's an arcade controlling game like Burnout. I feel like the control is an inferior way to control a car, while it's a perfectly solid way to handle fighting and shooting in a game.

Did you even play GTA3/VC/SA? You act like a more arcadey and over-the-top experience somehow sullies the GTA name. You do know that GTA4 was the FIRST GTA to employ such realistic physics, right? And it's obvious that they were found to be less enjoyable by the majority of gamers.
 
Enter The 36 Chambers said:
GTA IV will be nothing like Sants row. And we can all thank the gaming gods for that. Let the children enjoy the "wackiness" of saints row. Keep that trash and dildo canons out of my Grand Theft Auto thanks.
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I'm not sure which game you were playing, but the GTA series has never taken itself overly serious either. It exists in this weird in-between world where it wants to be serious, but it also wants to be wacky and hilarious!

The GTA series is no stranger to penis jokes, maybe they all just went over your head. The Cluckin Bell chain of restaurants had the tagline "TASTE THE COCK!". You can find way, way more throughout the entire series if you look hard enough. Who can forget the wacky pimping service of "Fernando's New Beginnings"?
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
It either needs mechanics on par with Sleeping Dogs or it has to be as ludicrous as Saint's Row 3 for me to buy it. I'm only 1 person though when millions will but it no matter how bad it is.



Sleeping Dogs had pretty basic arcade handling with a cool shunt system and action hijacks, how is the shit in GTA4 better? Also what camera issues did you have? I'm on PC and it's never been an issue.
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The game takes the camera out of your control and auto-centers all the time. (Actually GTA IV's camera was really bad too and did something similar) and sometimes the game won't allow you to move the camera at all while driving. In every other good open world game, or even any other 3rd person game, you control the camera with the right stick and the game never takes control of the camera at all.
 
BigDug13 said:
I disagree that it was a good balance. Regular front wheel drive cars don't fishtail at 20 miles per hour in dry conditions from a simple turn. I don't want to have to massage the analog stick and brakes and gas perfectly to avoid spinning out. I have never wanted that realism out of GTA games. It's just not fun to me. GTA4 was the first 3D GTA game that I didn't finish. It was the first one I didn't like.

If you're going to make one specific phase of the game more realistic while still using inferior car controls like analog thumb sticks, that's going to make the experience less enjoyable. And yes, before you ask, I hate playing racing games on a controller unless it's an arcade controlling game like Burnout. I feel like the control is an inferior way to control a car, while it's a perfectly solid way to handle fighting and shooting in a game.
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Well thats fair enough i guess. Not a fan of using steering wheels in games. I have a real car for when i want that. To me personally i loved the IV driving. I hope its the same in V.


antitrop said:
I'm not sure which game you were playing, but the GTA series has never taken itself overly serious either. It exists in this weird in-between world where it wants to be serious, but it also wants to be wacky and hilarious!

The GTA series is no stranger to penis jokes, maybe they all just went over your head. The Cluckin Bell chain of restaurants had the tagline "TASTE THE COCK!".
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I didnt explain myself enough i guess. I loved the low brow humour of SA etc while having a great game to go along with it. But the completely over the top shit of Saints row was just too much for me. Seemed too corny.
 
BigDug13 said:
I disagree that it was a good balance. Regular front wheel drive cars don't fishtail at 20 miles per hour in dry conditions from a simple turn. I don't want to have to massage the analog stick and brakes and gas perfectly to avoid spinning out. I have never wanted that realism out of GTA games. It's just not fun to me. GTA4 was the first 3D GTA game that I didn't finish. It was the first one I didn't like.

If you're going to make one specific phase of the game more realistic while still using inferior car controls like analog thumb sticks, that's going to make the experience less enjoyable. And yes, before you ask, I hate playing racing games on a controller unless it's an arcade controlling game like Burnout. I feel like the control is an inferior way to control a car, while it's a perfectly solid way to handle fighting and shooting in a game.
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I'd say that's on you, not the game. I've put 40 hours into Forza 4 so far and I've done endurance races with real people that last 45 minutes straight, I always use a controller and some of the other racers use a wheel, performance wise it really comes down proper cornering and pacing.
 
MormaPope said:
How the hell is melee combat moving the open world genre forward? I would think mission structure and the way a mission could branch off into different Territory depending on decisions/choices/failures would be moving the genre forward.

I have a question, does Sleeping Dogs have a mission system where failure could lead to different endings/missions? Because the first True Crime had this and 2nd one sorta did.
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No but to be fair the game was never meant to be an actual true crime game, that was just Activision forcing it. They had their own vision from the start on how to make the game.
 
Dennis aren't you the one who thinks Two Worlds II looks good, when it is one of the worst and ugliest games?

Come on now.
 
BigDug13 said:
Did you even play GTA3/VC/SA? You act like a more arcadey and over-the-top experience somehow sullies the GTA name. You do know that GTA4 was the FIRST GTA to employ such realistic physics, right? And it's obvious that they were found to be less enjoyable by the majority of gamers.
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why do people keep saying stupid shit like this? It is STILL on XBL top 20 list 4 years after it launched. Millions bought and loved the game. Where is any statistic to prove what you say is true besides maybe 30 vocal people on this forum. Point me to something because I keep seeing "most gamers" and "a majority of GTA fans" thrown around like this is common knowledge but EVERY SINGLE metric from online activity to sales to reviews say otherwise.
 
flyinpiranha said:
why do people keep saying stupid shit like this? It is STILL on XBL top 20 list 4 years after it launched. Millions bought and loved the game. Where is any statistic to prove what you say is true besides maybe 30 vocal people on this forum. Point me to something because I keep seeing "most gamers" and "a majority of GTA fans" thrown around like this is common knowledge but EVERY SINGLE metric from online activity to sales to reviews say otherwise.
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This.

The only games that have this kind of staying power are GTA IV, Halo 3, and COD 4 (Most games fall off the list a year or two after release) and of those three, GTA IV constantly places the highest. This is enough to prove that the majority of GTA fans still like GTA IV.
 
abundant said:
This.

The only games that have this kind of staying power are GTA IV, Halo 3, and COD 4 (Most games fall off the list a year or two after release) and of those three, GTA IV constantly places the highest. This is enough to prove that the majority of GTA fans still like GTA IV.
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Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :\

All those games you listed are constantly played by the casuals - that is why they are at the plateau.

Casuals outnumber other gamers.
 
abundant said:
This.

The only games that have this kind of staying power are GTA IV, Halo 3, and COD 4 (Most games fall off the list a year or two after release) and of those three, GTA IV constantly places the highest. This is enough to prove that the majority of GTA fans still like GTA IV.
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Grand Theft Auto III is my favorite PS2 game and I still liked GTA IV, I just think that it could have been a lot better.

For example, I thought the characterization and storyline in Red Dead Redemption blew away the paltry attempts at seriousness and silly disconnect between story and gameplay that GTA IV suffered from. I hope Rockstar learns from their own success.
 
Looks like some people want a dash of Gran Turismo/Forza in their GTA


ugh


As for the OP, nope. Even though I'm GREATLY enjoying SD and easily consider it to be the better game, the GTA franchise is still king. This isn't even considering the age gap between the 2 games, GTA4 was just a dreary experience through and through. I actually just finished the Gay Tony DLC just before SD dropped and GT is a much better comparison, in terms of mission variety.
 
SMT said:
Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :\

All those games you listed are constantly played by the casuals - that is why they are at the plateau.

Casuals outnumber other gamers.
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Damn, I didn't know I was casual.

Here I am thinking i was a hardcore gamer.
 
SMT said:
Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :\
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I'd buy that excuse, if it wasn't for the fact that GTA IV is the only one of those three to be near or in the top 10 every month since it released. I think the lowest it has ever gotten was 12, something no other game has done. So it has to be more then just the super casuals playing it. People are still playing it because they still find it fun.
 
SMT said:
Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :\

All those games you listed are constantly played by the casuals - that is why they are at the plateau.

Casuals outnumber other gamers.
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I wouldn't consider people playing 4-5 year old games daily as "casuals".
 
SMT said:
Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :

All those games you listed are constantly played by the casuals - that is why they are at the plateau.

Casuals outnumber other gamers.
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Haha, now this is just fucking ridiculous. I'm out.
 
They have nothing to worry about, especially if they can learn some tricks from it. I don't know many gamers that even know what Sleeping Dogs is.
 
Lesath said:
GTAIV is a benchmark in the sense that it was prettier and inferior to its predecessor, and just flat out inferior to several sandbox games that came out after it.
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Once again in this thread, I'm completely confused by a response to my comment. When I say 'GTA4 remains the benchmark', I mean GTA4 remains the game we measure other open-world action/driving games against.

No one is making threads comparing Sleeping Dogs to Saint's Row 3, or The Saboteur to The Godfather 2. This isn't to say any of those games aren't great in their own right, but rather that none of them have come close to reaching the market penetration and sheer significance of GTA4. Until one does, GTA will be the metric by which we judge other games.
 
SMT said:
Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :\

All those games you listed are constantly played by the casuals - that is why they are at the plateau.

Casuals outnumber other gamers.
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This thread really has brought out the cray cray.

"GTA isn't relevant! That's why I compare every sandbox game to it."
 
Hell no.

That doesn't change the fact that I find Sleeping Dogs a vastly superior game though. Surely GTA5 will have proper controls when it comes out which would go a long way to making it a game I can enjoy.
 
SMT said:
Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :\

All those games you listed are constantly played by the casuals - that is why they are at the plateau.

Casuals outnumber other gamers.
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Are you kidding? There might not have been a recent release with the name GTA (outside of IOS), but the Grand Theft Auto 'name' is still very much a well known brand, and yes I include 'casuals'.
 
Haven't looked it up, but I'm pretty sure user scores will be a bit higher than review scores for Sleeping Dogs, and the opposite for GTA IV. The press just seems enamored with GTA for some reason, I expect that will continue with GTA V.
 
Puppet Shadow said:
Haven't looked it up, but I'm pretty sure user scores will be a bit higher than review scores for Sleeping Dogs, and the opposite for GTA IV. The press just seems enamored with GTA for some reason, I expect that will continue with GTA V.
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Both are at 7.9 on 360 (where both have received the most votes) though GTA has almost 2,000 more scores submitted.

But I don't think there's much value in user scores on Metacritic.
 
2012-08-15_00002.jpg
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All your arguments against SD is invalid.
 
Puppet Shadow said:
Haven't looked it up, but I'm pretty sure user scores will be a bit higher than review scores for Sleeping Dogs, and the opposite for GTA IV. The press just seems enamored with GTA for some reason, I expect that will continue with GTA V.
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So true.
The press goes ridiculously bonkers for Main Line GTA games.
 
Fjordson said:
Both are at 7.9 on 360 (where both have received the most votes) though GTA has almost 2,000 more scores submitted.

But I don't think there's much value in user scores on Metacritic.
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Especially when Diablo III is sitting at a 3.8 because of a bunch of overly-nostalgic drama queens.
 
SMT said:
Or the majority of casuals still think GTA IV is relevant. :

All those games you listed are constantly played by the casuals - that is why they are at the plateau.

Casuals outnumber other gamers.
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Translation: people that don't agree with me outnumber me.
 
This thread has left me flabbergasted.

How are some posters actually seriously comparing a game made in 2008 and a game released in 2012.

Of course SD would have elements that improve upon the formula they've had plenty of time to see the lay of the land. It's very easy to follow in someones wake than it is to actually lead.

And it's not as if R* have been sitting still all this time. They're constantly improving. I mean they have absolutely nailed how to make gun battles exciting.

I'm fully expecting the weapon handling that we saw in Max Payne 3 to carry over.
 
Dabanton said:
This thread has left me flabbergasted.

How are some posters actually seriously comparing a game made in 2008 and a game released in 2012.

Of course SD would have elements that improve upon the formula they've had plenty of time to see the lay of the land. It's very easy to follow in someones wake than it is to actually lead.

And it's not as if R* have been sitting still all this time. They're constantly improving. I mean they have absolutely nailed how to make gun battles exciting.

I'm fully expecting the weapon handling that we saw in Max Payne 3 to carry over.
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GTA V isn't out yet

Edit: Lol sorry dude, it's late and I should should stop reading threads. I honestly didn't think GTAIV would be brought up in here in that manner.
 
I don't think the OP has really phrased it right... of course GTAV won't have anything to worry about, you could sell a piece of turd and label it GTA and it would still sell...

There's far too many casuals that play ONLY GTA series and not any of the other open world games... people who play just GTA/Call of Duty/Halo/Mario/Gran Turismo/Madden etc

I think Rockstar if anything will rip off as much as they can from Sleeping Dogs and people will tout it as the greatest game ever (again). Sleeping Dogs will get a little praise for being the first but Rockstar will get the sales.

Of course it would have been too much to expect reviewers to actually play the PC version (the best version) of Sleeping Dogs and call it rightfully the best open world game of this generation in its reviews... its left to gamers to do the dirty work and continue the word of mouth going on this awesome game. Hopefully UFG get the sales it deserves.
 
flyinpiranha said:
why do people keep saying stupid shit like this? It is STILL on XBL top 20 list 4 years after it launched. Millions bought and loved the game. Where is any statistic to prove what you say is true besides maybe 30 vocal people on this forum. Point me to something because I keep seeing "most gamers" and "a majority of GTA fans" thrown around like this is common knowledge but EVERY SINGLE metric from online activity to sales to reviews say otherwise.
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Ok fine. I fucking LOVED GTA3, VC, SA and played the hell out of them to completion. I HATED GTA4 and didn't even get more than a couple hours in.

Fine, not majority of gamers. Me, and that's all the gamer that matters to me. I don't want GTA5 to follow the same path as GTA4 or I'm completely done with the series.
 
Dabanton said:
This thread has left me flabbergasted.

How are some posters actually seriously comparing a game made in 2008 and a game released in 2012.

Of course SD would have elements that improve upon the formula they've had plenty of time to see the lay of the land. It's very easy to follow in someones wake than it is to actually lead.

And it's not as if R* have been sitting still all this time. They're constantly improving. I mean they have absolutely nailed how to make gun battles exciting.

I'm fully expecting the weapon handling that we saw in Max Payne 3 to carry over.
Click to expand...

I hope they've taken good lessons from that experience, but i'm not expecting something as tight (for obvious reasons).
 
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